Over the past six months I down-shifted my unpowered, rare cube to peasant+ (commons and uncommons with a few rare duals that don't CIPT) because my playgroup and I were getting sick of how pushed and generally unfun some of the broken rares and mythics were getting. When I did so I made a point to avoid cards like Sol Ring, Skullclamp, Channel, Mana Drain, etc... because they are just too overpowered to exist within an uncommon environment IMO (heck, I didn't run them in my rare cube for the same reasons). Innitially I avoided Reanimate, Animate Dead, etc... for the same reason; most people (and the people in my playgroup in particular) don't enjoy basically losing the game on turn 2 (sometimes their turn 1) when the opponent cheats a 7cmc threat into play. So my question is to those of you with experience in this archetype...
Is Reanimator too broken for peasant?
Of course, I understand that everything is relative and a matter of personal preference, but I'm asking this in the same context I might ask is is Sol Ring too broken for peasant. Beyond this innitial question might I ask if it's certain reanimation spells in particular (the 1 and 2 cmc spells mentioned above for instance) that are the problem or just the whole archetype? Would just running 4+ cmc stuff like Dread Return, Zombify, Makeshift Mannequin, Diabolic Servitude, Unburial Rites, Extract from Darkness, etc.. be viable, or at that point is it not worth doing? Additionally, are their certain safety-valves (hate-cards that should or support cards that should not be included with Reanimator) I can build in to limit the brokenness if I include the cheaper reanimation spells?
I enjoy a variety of different archetypes in my cube, and Reanimator seems like it comes from such a different direction than most things in peasant that it might be fun to have as a "combo" option for those so inclined; I just don't want it to become a problem or the best thing to be doing.
First of all in CU/be you rarely get to reanimate a creature before turn 3 and you can't attack with it before turn 4. That's plenty of time for an aggro deck to attack you or for a midrange deck to build up defenses. Secondly the big creatures in peasant are not Inkwell Leviathan or Griselbrand, instead we have Pelakka Wurm or Trostani's Summoner. Certainly creatures that are hard to deal with, but nothing that will end the game on the spot.
From my pov reanimator is one of the weaker archetypes in peasant. It is fragile and inconsistent since you need a discard outlet, a fatty and a reanimation spell early in the game all at once. And then you haven't won the game, you just have everything you need for a chance to win the game. If I replaced Animate Dead with Zombify the archetype would be gone from my cube as it would be impossible to win with it.
The problem you have may be that reanimator is the only true combo archetype there is in peasant and if everything works perfectly right a reanimator deck can end the game as early as turn 4, which is faster than an aggro deck, which needs at least 5 turns usually. But that's just the way combo decks work. And from my experience this kind of very early win only happens very, very rarely. If you don't like combo decks get rid of reanimator, but don't remove it because it's op as that's clearly not the case.
Interesting. I guess I didn't consider that the top end threats aren't as game-ending in peasant; maybe that's the check on the archetype I was looking for to reassure me that adding it wouldn't be too strong. So from a cursory glace at your list, you basically recommend running all the lowest cmc reanimation spells? You don't like Life // Death, Unburial Rites, Dread Return, or Makeshift Mannequin?
Interesting. I guess I didn't consider that the top end threats aren't as game-ending in peasant; maybe that's the check on the archetype I was looking for to reassure me that adding it wouldn't be too strong. So from a cursory glace at your list, you basically recommend running all the lowest cmc reanimation spells?
Absolutely. No one runs Zombify because it's just not worth running. It's bad in reanimator and it's bad outside of reanimator. Animate Dead and Reanimate aren't overpowered, they're just good spells. In Peasant Reanimate is even pretty bad in reanimator since the life loss hurts a lot if you can't win immediately and a turn 1 reanimation is practically impossible. I like it more in aggro, but of course I take it for reanimator as well since there aren't many options.
I agree with Phitt77. A random Doom Blade/Swords to Plowshares usually deals with the reanimation target and the ones to which this is not an answer are often blockable. For instance, I had situations were someone reanimated Striped Riverwinder on turn two only to face of against an Savannah Lions and some random three power two drop. Granted, this created a board stall which favored them since they were playing against aggro but they didn't/couldn't win on the spot.
By the way, some more expensive reanimate spells are worth running imho. Most notably Unburial Rites is a great card but mainly because of the card value it represents (getting your best creature back twice in the late game is very good).
Just to reiterate what's been said already, reanimator in peasant won't be anywhere close to as powerful as what you might be used to seeing in legacy and vintage cubes. That's not to say that a turn two or three reanimated fatty won't win you the game. It certainly can. However, it really depends on the reanimation target and the matchup. If your opponent is on mono red and you turn three a Pelakka Wurm, that probably spells game over for them. If they're on almost literally any other strategy, there's a chance they just kill your target on the spot. Even something like Striped Riverwinder that has protection from removal is still just a 5/5. That's pretty good on turn two, but it's also easy to take a hit or two from it while you gum up the board to deal with it in combat.
Personally, I've only had one bad beats story in my peasant list from something being reanimated early and the opponent in that match not having an immediate answer for it. Unfortunately for that opponent, the reanimate target was Artisan of Kozilek. Not having the immediate answer allowed for the annihilator ability to pretty much seal that game up early. Really, though, in all the years I've been peasant cubing that happened exactly once, so take that for what it's worth when you consider supporting the archetype in your list.
I suppose it also helps the case for the archetype that most of the cards for it play well regardless? Only the more dedicated support stuff like Exhume and Titanoth Rex take up spots which are exclusively dedicated to supporting the archetype; most looting and reanimation is good enough on its own and feeds to interesting games regardless.
I think the best reanimation decks are actually control decks which use reanimation for the win-con. Trying to force out a turn 3 Artisan will win some games, but this is a format full of premium point and click removal. You have to protect your queen.
Is Reanimator too broken for peasant?
Of course, I understand that everything is relative and a matter of personal preference, but I'm asking this in the same context I might ask is is Sol Ring too broken for peasant. Beyond this innitial question might I ask if it's certain reanimation spells in particular (the 1 and 2 cmc spells mentioned above for instance) that are the problem or just the whole archetype? Would just running 4+ cmc stuff like Dread Return, Zombify, Makeshift Mannequin, Diabolic Servitude, Unburial Rites, Extract from Darkness, etc.. be viable, or at that point is it not worth doing? Additionally, are their certain safety-valves (hate-cards that should or support cards that should not be included with Reanimator) I can build in to limit the brokenness if I include the cheaper reanimation spells?
I enjoy a variety of different archetypes in my cube, and Reanimator seems like it comes from such a different direction than most things in peasant that it might be fun to have as a "combo" option for those so inclined; I just don't want it to become a problem or the best thing to be doing.
From my pov reanimator is one of the weaker archetypes in peasant. It is fragile and inconsistent since you need a discard outlet, a fatty and a reanimation spell early in the game all at once. And then you haven't won the game, you just have everything you need for a chance to win the game. If I replaced Animate Dead with Zombify the archetype would be gone from my cube as it would be impossible to win with it.
The problem you have may be that reanimator is the only true combo archetype there is in peasant and if everything works perfectly right a reanimator deck can end the game as early as turn 4, which is faster than an aggro deck, which needs at least 5 turns usually. But that's just the way combo decks work. And from my experience this kind of very early win only happens very, very rarely. If you don't like combo decks get rid of reanimator, but don't remove it because it's op as that's clearly not the case.
My Old School Battlebox
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Absolutely. No one runs Zombify because it's just not worth running. It's bad in reanimator and it's bad outside of reanimator. Animate Dead and Reanimate aren't overpowered, they're just good spells. In Peasant Reanimate is even pretty bad in reanimator since the life loss hurts a lot if you can't win immediately and a turn 1 reanimation is practically impossible. I like it more in aggro, but of course I take it for reanimator as well since there aren't many options.
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
By the way, some more expensive reanimate spells are worth running imho. Most notably Unburial Rites is a great card but mainly because of the card value it represents (getting your best creature back twice in the late game is very good).
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
Personally, I've only had one bad beats story in my peasant list from something being reanimated early and the opponent in that match not having an immediate answer for it. Unfortunately for that opponent, the reanimate target was Artisan of Kozilek. Not having the immediate answer allowed for the annihilator ability to pretty much seal that game up early. Really, though, in all the years I've been peasant cubing that happened exactly once, so take that for what it's worth when you consider supporting the archetype in your list.
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