Archetype combinations mostly come from experienced players and are something that I would classify as something for an "advanced" Vintage article.
As the author of this article I am here to answer any questions anyone might have about what is written.
I guess, in that vein, it feels like the article oversimplifies certain archetypes...
In particular, Shops limited to Prison/Ravager, Combo missing TES, Gush might want its own archetype...
I feel that some of the simplification here is appropriate, but in parts it just feels like you're leaving out potential draws to the format or potential challenges a new player might have to face.
I would disagree that it is oversimplified, though I certainly understand the urge to get across the point that Vintage is a brewer's dream. I love to brew Vintage decks for the next week's dailies during the week but that is because I think I know what I am doing.
I could mention Tiny Robots under Shops, but what are the odds somebody plays against Brassman? TES is a Legacy deck so I assume you mean TPS, which no longer exists now that Dark Petition has evolved from it. As for Gush it basically already does have its own archetype, the Delver/Pyromancer/Mentor archetype. The only thing missing from there is Doomsday (which is under the appropriate section) and random Gushbond brews that don't play the creature package (which I'm not sure exist anymore). If you have any other well known decks I am missing I would love to know about them but I would like to think I covered the important bases.
Now you could make the argument I left off hybrid decks like Burning Oath and Bomberman. Once again though, when you introduce hybrid archetypes things get very complicated unless you have dedicated archetype primers and we just didn't have the space for that.
I would disagree that it is oversimplified, though I certainly understand the urge to get across the point that Vintage is a brewer's dream. I love to brew Vintage decks for the next week's dailies during the week but that is because I think I know what I am doing.
I could mention Tiny Robots under Shops, but what are the odds somebody plays against Brassman? TES is a Legacy deck so I assume you mean TPS, which no longer exists now that Dark Petition has evolved from it. As for Gush it basically already does have its own archetype, the Delver/Pyromancer/Mentor archetype. The only thing missing from there is Doomsday (which is under the appropriate section) and random Gushbond brews that don't play the creature package (which I'm not sure exist anymore). If you have any other well known decks I am missing I would love to know about them but I would like to think I covered the important bases.
Now you could make the argument I left off hybrid decks like Burning Oath and Bomberman. Once again though, when you introduce hybrid archetypes things get very complicated unless you have dedicated archetype primers and we just didn't have the space for that.
Or Terra Nova (kinda a combination, I suppose). Yes, I meant TPS. I suppose that's a point, though I honestly think dismissing significantly different top tier older archetypes doesn't make total sense in Vintage; the older archetypes tend to come back much more often. I guess my point with Gush was that Delver/Pyro/Mentor is more the evolution of a Gush deck than a separate deck that happens to run Gush, but I suppose it's still a consideration. I also don't particularly care for grouping Merfolk in with Hate Bears; they feel different enough.
I suppose most of my concerns are semantics, but I do feel that the brewer's dream aspect is the primary appeal to Vintage at the moment for most players that would consider playing it to begin with. That said, it's probably not that big a deal either way.
The problem with listing historical archetypes is that it would increase the size of each section without adding that much value to a newer player. For example you will notice that Gifts Ungiven isn't mentioned anywhere in the article. Now does that mean the deck/card are unplayable? Absolutely not, but for a new Vintage player it would be disingenuous to say "here is something in Vintage that you need to learn before you can start." Now, were I to write a primer specifically on the "big blue" archetype I would certainly mention Gifts Ungiven.
I certainly don't mind your comments and I'm sure you're not the only person with concerns like these. I don't mind explaining my position and if I feel that I've made a big enough error even changing the article.
The staples section should include cards off the restricted list, I assume you knew about these or assumed your reader knew about them, but their absence makes it slightly jarring.
Both before and after the pictured list I mention that the restricted list is something that should be picked up as well. It would bloat the section to add another 40 cards especially since they are all singletons. Unfortunately for me you're not the first person to miss this so maybe I wasn't clear enough.
Additionally I think that stating things like there are "two main variations", you might consider adding in the words "currently being played". For example, as brought up above "Tiny Robots" is a Shop version that has seen reasonable success in the recent time frame.
Again I know this is a beginner's guide but additionally you might consider a Miscellaneous category of decks that could include things like:
Oops all Spells (maybe push into combo)
Humans (maybe push into Delver/Pyromance/Mentor or rename it Weenie (side sidenote this category is very unfocused))
Dragon (maybe this is in the Dredge category)
And Legacy ports that have occasional success, such as
Goblins, Burn or TMWA (The Mountains Win Again)
Show and Tell variants
Merfolk
Standstill
I just don't think it is worth mentioning a bunch of fringe decks in a beginner's guide. It makes the format seem even more daunting when a player needs to not only learn a bunch of new cards but now a bunch of decks, most of which they'll never see in their entire time playing Vintage. Once again, were I to make primers on individual archetypes I could get into more detail but for now I don't think it is an issue.
Humans and Merfolk are mentioned under Hatebears. There are no Show and Tell variants except Oath, and Show and Tell is pictured in the staples section. Standstill is fringe enough that I don't think it is worth mentioning, though it is a fine card and I know a lot of people like trying to make it work. I don't think any of the other decks you listed are playable.
Speaking of MTG TOP8, they divide categories into Aggro, Control and Combo - which in vintage is somewhat odd, as I think many decks are a blend of two or more of those categories.
Even some of the odd archetype names are interesting such as 2/1 Control and the fact that Canadian Threshold is listed as deck type when I think of it as a Legacy Archetype more then Vintage
Yes, I think that mtgtop8 does a very good job with raw data, not so much with naming things.
As for Standstill I think it is the card closest to making the cut, but unfortunately the card is a bit too complicated to just add to a list and be done with it. It would require explanation to a beginner that despite the fact that the card slots into the "Big Blue" archetype it really requires building around it, even more so than Oath of Druids. This combined with the fact that it is more on the fringe side makes me not want it there. Once again, were I to write a guide on specific archetypes like "big blue" I would almost certainly mention it along with Gifts Ungiven and other such cards.
Great post in my eyes.its a simple brief version of something else I'd seen but I made it to the end of yours and still understood it all.to many card ideas get the brain jumbled and for someone like me who has several of these cards in either singles or doubles only,but not all of them, it does offer a few poor man's choices which is valuable. And who adds black lotus to new vintage guys recommendations? Really who has coin for that!so ANY combo that needs the lotus is irrelevant to newbies to vintage like myself or those that lack power from the first two sets.i myself have no alpha or beta but 50 k plus cards all from boosters and event decks after that. Not one card bought single or traded for.If I didn't pull it, I wasn't meant to play it.
So for me I will look back on this a few times as I pull out a few of those cards and use some of the optional cards you suggested. Thanks bud.
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As the author of this article I am here to answer any questions anyone might have about what is written.
I guess, in that vein, it feels like the article oversimplifies certain archetypes...
In particular, Shops limited to Prison/Ravager, Combo missing TES, Gush might want its own archetype...
I feel that some of the simplification here is appropriate, but in parts it just feels like you're leaving out potential draws to the format or potential challenges a new player might have to face.
I could mention Tiny Robots under Shops, but what are the odds somebody plays against Brassman? TES is a Legacy deck so I assume you mean TPS, which no longer exists now that Dark Petition has evolved from it. As for Gush it basically already does have its own archetype, the Delver/Pyromancer/Mentor archetype. The only thing missing from there is Doomsday (which is under the appropriate section) and random Gushbond brews that don't play the creature package (which I'm not sure exist anymore). If you have any other well known decks I am missing I would love to know about them but I would like to think I covered the important bases.
Now you could make the argument I left off hybrid decks like Burning Oath and Bomberman. Once again though, when you introduce hybrid archetypes things get very complicated unless you have dedicated archetype primers and we just didn't have the space for that.
Or Terra Nova (kinda a combination, I suppose). Yes, I meant TPS. I suppose that's a point, though I honestly think dismissing significantly different top tier older archetypes doesn't make total sense in Vintage; the older archetypes tend to come back much more often. I guess my point with Gush was that Delver/Pyro/Mentor is more the evolution of a Gush deck than a separate deck that happens to run Gush, but I suppose it's still a consideration. I also don't particularly care for grouping Merfolk in with Hate Bears; they feel different enough.
I suppose most of my concerns are semantics, but I do feel that the brewer's dream aspect is the primary appeal to Vintage at the moment for most players that would consider playing it to begin with. That said, it's probably not that big a deal either way.
I certainly don't mind your comments and I'm sure you're not the only person with concerns like these. I don't mind explaining my position and if I feel that I've made a big enough error even changing the article.
Ancestral Recall on card draw, Black Lotus on fast mana and Demonic Tutor in the tutor section are the ones that really stick out to me.
Again I know this is a beginner's guide but additionally you might consider a Miscellaneous category of decks that could include things like:
Oops all Spells (maybe push into combo)
Humans (maybe push into Delver/Pyromance/Mentor or rename it Weenie (side sidenote this category is very unfocused))
Dragon (maybe this is in the Dredge category)
And Legacy ports that have occasional success, such as
Goblins, Burn or TMWA (The Mountains Win Again)
Show and Tell variants
Merfolk
Standstill
Humans and Merfolk are mentioned under Hatebears. There are no Show and Tell variants except Oath, and Show and Tell is pictured in the staples section. Standstill is fringe enough that I don't think it is worth mentioning, though it is a fine card and I know a lot of people like trying to make it work. I don't think any of the other decks you listed are playable.
As to Standstill being fringe, I certainly don't think it's a major archetype but the card is played some, here is a recent decklist from MTG TOP8
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11334&f=VI
Using 4 Standstill.
Speaking of MTG TOP8, they divide categories into Aggro, Control and Combo - which in vintage is somewhat odd, as I think many decks are a blend of two or more of those categories.
Even some of the odd archetype names are interesting such as 2/1 Control and the fact that Canadian Threshold is listed as deck type when I think of it as a Legacy Archetype more then Vintage
Link to Main vintage page listing over there
http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=VI
As for Standstill I think it is the card closest to making the cut, but unfortunately the card is a bit too complicated to just add to a list and be done with it. It would require explanation to a beginner that despite the fact that the card slots into the "Big Blue" archetype it really requires building around it, even more so than Oath of Druids. This combined with the fact that it is more on the fringe side makes me not want it there. Once again, were I to write a guide on specific archetypes like "big blue" I would almost certainly mention it along with Gifts Ungiven and other such cards.
So for me I will look back on this a few times as I pull out a few of those cards and use some of the optional cards you suggested. Thanks bud.