Workshop is the saving grace of Vintage. Why would you nerf a deck that actually casts creatures to the battlefield? Creature combat is what's lacking in Vintage. Workshop is already slower than other decks, it doesn't need to be nerfed. I understand that Lodestone Golem is an advantageous card, but so are 3 dozen other Vintage cards. Remember it costs 4 to cast...that's an expensive creature...even with Mishra's Workshop and Metalworker.
I just don't get it, they could make Vintage great again with creature decks, particularly where they are branching out into multicolor creatures with high stats... I mean if you're trying to get Stompy, Goldfish, and countless Creature Combo decks to be playable, then by all means restrict Lodestone Golem. Solitaire.
Compared to 8+ years ago creatures are now far more numerous in vintage regardless of lodestone getting restricted or not. As for vintage being solitaire, it kind of is regardless of what deck you're playing as most decks in vintage want to do their own thing unopposed typically.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
This is my small list of creatures that are good in vintage and why I think Lodestone restriction was a good move; my primary vintage deck is Forgemaster Agro Shops, for reference.
Snapcaster
Dark Confidant
Trygon Predator
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Deathrite Shaman
Leonin Arbiter
Griselbrand
Phrexian Revoker
Young Pyromancer
Monastery Mentor
There are lots of good creatures from the last 10 plus years in MTG that have made it to Vintage because of their sheer utility, power and casting cost.
I think that Lodestone was a great restriction. I agree with it. Lodestone is FAR too strong a creature that applies an amount of pressure difficult to deal with too early on in a game. I agree that this was the problem child of the shops deck; or at least the most effective sphere aside dealing with Chalice (which I don't like the restriction of, they may as well have just banned it for all the good a one-of does). Yes lodestone golem dies to bolt, ingot chewer, hurkyl's, etcetera, but that is not the point. It "gets there" too easily as compared to other sphere effects. As far as clocks go, this one was too speedy. Now I just have to build a shops deck with a new focus...
They can't ban cards in vintage short of them causing serious issues (ante, manual dexterity, or logistics in the case of shahrazad playing 2+ games is a logistical nightmare.) If you restrict shops the deck is basically legacy MUD with some slightly better fast mana in the form of moxen, sol ring, mana crypt, lotus, etc. etc. and it will be quite awful then in comparison to where other vintage decks are. It's a pillar of the format. If you don't like it don't play vintage as WotC certainly isn't changing their banlist philosophy regarding pillars any time soon if ever. I may hate facing shops but it deserves a place in the vintage metagame.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Caleb Durward had something to say about this, which was that in Shops, Lodestone Golem was basically two cards in one. You got a Juggernaut and a Thorn of Amethyst stapled too it - both cards that Workshops played prior to the printing of Lodestone Golem - for the price of just a Juggernaut.
Considering that the draw of Vintage is that you can cast all your high power level spells, I'm not surprised that Lodestone Golem was seen to be too efficient.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
All I'm saying is that if I'm holding 1 counterspell and Lodestone Golem is cast, it's a must counter...if you have 2 of them in your hand then I'm screwed...and after you cast your second Lodestone Golem it's going to be harder for me to counterspell, but I could Lightning Bolt it. Back and forth card play making fun games.
Lodestone Golem makes Workshop Decks fast, yet still allows for plays to get rid of it, as previous poster mentioned.
UPDATE: And the Dredge matchup is closer with Lodestone Golem beating down with high damage. Don't get me wrong...make vintage fun for more decks...restrict cards...just don't play favorites.
RGVintage DragonsRG
GVintage ElvesG
UGModern BiomancerUG
WJareth HighlanderW
RGVintage DragonsRG
GVintage ElvesG
UGModern BiomancerUG
WJareth HighlanderW
Currently Playing:
Retired
Snapcaster
Dark Confidant
Trygon Predator
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Deathrite Shaman
Leonin Arbiter
Griselbrand
Phrexian Revoker
Young Pyromancer
Monastery Mentor
There are lots of good creatures from the last 10 plus years in MTG that have made it to Vintage because of their sheer utility, power and casting cost.
I think that Lodestone was a great restriction. I agree with it. Lodestone is FAR too strong a creature that applies an amount of pressure difficult to deal with too early on in a game. I agree that this was the problem child of the shops deck; or at least the most effective sphere aside dealing with Chalice (which I don't like the restriction of, they may as well have just banned it for all the good a one-of does). Yes lodestone golem dies to bolt, ingot chewer, hurkyl's, etcetera, but that is not the point. It "gets there" too easily as compared to other sphere effects. As far as clocks go, this one was too speedy. Now I just have to build a shops deck with a new focus...
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
Currently Playing:
Retired
RGVintage DragonsRG
GVintage ElvesG
UGModern BiomancerUG
WJareth HighlanderW
Considering that the draw of Vintage is that you can cast all your high power level spells, I'm not surprised that Lodestone Golem was seen to be too efficient.
Awww... but I want it to be the best deck.
RGVintage DragonsRG
GVintage ElvesG
UGModern BiomancerUG
WJareth HighlanderW
And Sphere of Resistance can't kill you in four turns.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Good point, but if I'm not mistaken your Merfolk Deck just became the sole survivor in Vintage. It's hardly worth countering a Sphere of Resistance.
RGVintage DragonsRG
GVintage ElvesG
UGModern BiomancerUG
WJareth HighlanderW
Could you elaborate on this?
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Also, merfolks die to Ratchet Bomb.
Or cast Sphere of Resistance T1 and Lodestone Golem T2, then my counterspells are too expensive. But the next game I Daze your Sphere of Resistance and Counterspell your Lodestone Golem. Again back and forth play.
Lodestone Golem makes Workshop Decks fast, yet still allows for plays to get rid of it, as previous poster mentioned.
UPDATE: And the Dredge matchup is closer with Lodestone Golem beating down with high damage. Don't get me wrong...make vintage fun for more decks...restrict cards...just don't play favorites.
UPDATE: Cards like Disenchant, Naturalize, and Dack Fayden just lost a lot of their play.
UPDATE: Any of you guys play Mox Opal in your MUD decks? How many copies do you run?
RGVintage DragonsRG
GVintage ElvesG
UGModern BiomancerUG
WJareth HighlanderW