I am considering adding Painter's Servant with the goal of making all the Pyroblasts and REBs into R cost Counterspells and Vindicates. I would obviously add more to the main deck.
BUDGET: - lotus and mox. +Shattering Spree, +Vexing Shusher
I am interested in playing a deck like this, but most lists I've seen run a mox ruby and a lotus. How viable is the deck without them? I want to be competitive vs. the top tier decks.
There is no substitute for lotus but a Lotus Petal is a decent replacement for ruby in this deck as you really want to get a turn 1 moon effect. I have only played in one tournament and made a mistake that cost me going 4-1 and going into top eight. Many players there were impressed by my deck and felt it was powerful. I beat dredge and two workshop decks and lost to storm tendrils and dredge (the match I should have won).
There is no substitute for lotus but a Lotus Petal is a decent replacement for ruby in this deck as you really want to get a turn 1 moon effect. I have only played in one tournament and made a mistake that cost me going 4-1 and going into top eight. Many players there were impressed by my deck and felt it was powerful. I beat dredge and two workshop decks and lost to storm tendrils and dredge (the match I should have won).
Well that sounds like the deck can do pretty good unpowered, congrats
I have all these cards besides the power so I will start play testing this deck. Now my only problem is that I don't know anybody who plays vintage, or anywhere to play vintage lol.
If you had access to 4 chaos warp would you board them all jw?
One of the guys in my playgroup plays TMWA and he doesn't use Black Lotus or Mox Ruby, he uses Rite of Flame instead, and he does own P9, if that means anything. Simply because Null Rod and a Chalice of the Void set @ 0 doesn't shut his own resources down. Hope this helped.
One of the guys in my playgroup plays TMWA and he doesn't use Black Lotus or Mox Ruby, he uses Rite of Flame instead, and he does own P9, if that means anything. Simply because Null Rod and a Chalice of the Void set @ 0 doesn't shut his own resources down. Hope this helped.
Helps quite a bit, thank you. Plus gives me a use for my rite of flames now that they are banned in modern
Well that sounds like the deck can do pretty good unpowered, congrats
I have all these cards besides the power so I will start play testing this deck. Now my only problem is that I don't know anybody who plays vintage, or anywhere to play vintage lol.
If you had access to 4 chaos warp would you board them all jw?
I played in a 15 proxy tournament and played lotus and ruby. I used lotus once for a turn one blood moon but otherwise they were usually dead because of my own chalice at 0 or null rod.
I own 4 Chaos Warp but I thought my sideboard seemed good.
One of the guys in my playgroup plays TMWA and he doesn't use Black Lotus or Mox Ruby, he uses Rite of Flame instead, and he does own P9, if that means anything. Simply because Null Rod and a Chalice of the Void set @ 0 doesn't shut his own resources down. Hope this helped.
Rite of Flame is a pimp suggestion. I'll find a spot for 2-3.
Painter's Servant - Like you said, works wonders with pyroblast/REB. Grindstone - Works great with Painter's Servant. Great in a control deck like yours. Gorilla Shaman - Great if you use recruiter. Can replace one or two shattering sprees. Imperial Recruiter - Although expensive, these can replace a few Dragonlords/Magi and search for essentially anything you need, whether it's the magus, simian spirit guide, servant, or gorilla shaman. Sol Ring/Mana Crypt - Almost as good, if not better than tombs and CoT. This is one of the things that makes the deck vintage-worthy and not just for legacy. Wheel of Fortune - Great for refilling your hand, since it looks like you'll be on a fast pace. Also a distinguishing factor between vintage/legacy decks.
Very close to my powered build with revoker and wheel of fortune instead of shusher.
I think that revoker is a good addition. Wheel is definitely a powerful card but I find that many of my games are locked down with us both having quite a few cards in hand. I fear that many times wheel would only draw you a couple cards and possibly help them draw into an answer for your lockdown. There are of course the times where it reads "You draw 6 cards and your opponent draws 1". Probably warrants testing, let me know.
Shusher can be SO key to getting through your own chalice at 1. He definitely saved me big time a few times. I am going to have to look at Revoker some more for sure...
It has been the cheapest for some time. Unfortunately the shop that was having Vintage tournaments in my area switched them to Modern tournaments and I haven't played any Vintage for months.
If you look at any deck and they have 2 or less basic lands or all the mox then this deck has a shot against it. That is a lot of Vintage decks. I tend to do well vs. blue control decks (you countered my chalice for 0? Here's a blood moon!) and dredge (They just fold to turn 1 blood moon). It seemed even to bad vs. MUD but Shattering Spree helps. Storm is about even and depends on who plays first and whether you can drop a moon effect before they go off. I haven't played enough fish decks (and they vary a lot) to really know.
Whenever I played TMWA everyone was very interested in the deck and said that it seemed powerful. It did to me too. It is very good at shutting down decks unless they can counter blood moon or magus of the moon.
It has been the cheapest for some time. Unfortunately the shop that was having Vintage tournaments in my area switched them to Modern tournaments and I haven't played any Vintage for months.
If you look at any deck and they have 2 or less basic lands or all the mox then this deck has a shot against it. That is a lot of Vintage decks. I tend to do well vs. blue control decks (you countered my chalice for 0? Here's a blood moon!) and dredge (They just fold to turn 1 blood moon). It seemed even to bad vs. MUD but Shattering Spree helps. Storm is about even and depends on who plays first and whether you can drop a moon effect before they go off. I haven't played enough fish decks (and they vary a lot) to really know.
Whenever I played TMWA everyone was very interested in the deck and said that it seemed powerful. It did to me too. It is very good at shutting down decks unless they can counter blood moon or magus of the moon.
How does this deck hold up today? I really like mana denial strategies.
How does this deck hold up today? I really like mana denial strategies.
I am not sure. The vintage Metagame hasn't changed enough to make this deck irrelevant as it can just shut down dredge and MUD. There are still a decent number of decks running Force of Will but you will run into enough that don't that a turn one moon effect will still be powerful.
Since I purchased my power I have been playing Grixis Control. Plus I moved and there is NO Vintage in my area now. Basically I haven't played this deck for almost a year.
4 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Trinisphere
Other Control (11)
3 Shattering Spree
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
4 Kargan Dragonlord
Other Tricks (7)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Vexing Shusher
Mana (21)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Strip Mine
10 Mountain
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Chaos Warp
1 Pithing Needle
1 Stranglehold
I am considering adding Painter's Servant with the goal of making all the Pyroblasts and REBs into R cost Counterspells and Vindicates. I would obviously add more to the main deck.
BUDGET: - lotus and mox. +Shattering Spree, +Vexing Shusher
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Should have Wasteland or atleast a Strip Mine in your mana base.
Also the new card Stranglehold might fit in here somewhere. http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/88/613/635032494726127992.jpg
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Wow. Thanks for the info. A Strip Mine seems reasonable.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Yeah, I've been siding it. Works amazing against Oath.
@Bone doc: I love your primers. Read both of them.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Warp is 20 a piece? Damn. At least Wizards is printing more decks.
And thanks! I really appreciate feedback (especially the positive kind :p).
I'm curious as to why no Gorilla Shaman, though. Is it because it's a nonproxy meta, so there are very few Moxen?
Currently playing
R/W/B Midrange
Modern:
Looking into U/W/R Tempo
Legacy:
Canadian Threshold (RUG Tempo)
EDH:
Horde of Notions (5 Color ETB abuse)
And My Lovely Powered Cube
Abolish the Reserve List!
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Well that sounds like the deck can do pretty good unpowered, congrats
I have all these cards besides the power so I will start play testing this deck. Now my only problem is that I don't know anybody who plays vintage, or anywhere to play vintage lol.
If you had access to 4 chaos warp would you board them all jw?
Currently playing
R/W/B Midrange
Modern:
Looking into U/W/R Tempo
Legacy:
Canadian Threshold (RUG Tempo)
EDH:
Horde of Notions (5 Color ETB abuse)
And My Lovely Powered Cube
Abolish the Reserve List!
Helps quite a bit, thank you. Plus gives me a use for my rite of flames now that they are banned in modern
Currently playing
R/W/B Midrange
Modern:
Looking into U/W/R Tempo
Legacy:
Canadian Threshold (RUG Tempo)
EDH:
Horde of Notions (5 Color ETB abuse)
And My Lovely Powered Cube
Abolish the Reserve List!
I played in a 15 proxy tournament and played lotus and ruby. I used lotus once for a turn one blood moon but otherwise they were usually dead because of my own chalice at 0 or null rod.
I own 4 Chaos Warp but I thought my sideboard seemed good.
Rite of Flame is a pimp suggestion. I'll find a spot for 2-3.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Painter's Servant - Like you said, works wonders with pyroblast/REB.
Grindstone - Works great with Painter's Servant. Great in a control deck like yours.
Gorilla Shaman - Great if you use recruiter. Can replace one or two shattering sprees.
Imperial Recruiter - Although expensive, these can replace a few Dragonlords/Magi and search for essentially anything you need, whether it's the magus, simian spirit guide, servant, or gorilla shaman.
Sol Ring/Mana Crypt - Almost as good, if not better than tombs and CoT. This is one of the things that makes the deck vintage-worthy and not just for legacy.
Wheel of Fortune - Great for refilling your hand, since it looks like you'll be on a fast pace. Also a distinguishing factor between vintage/legacy decks.
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Strip Mine
Disruption: 17
4 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Trinisphere
3 Shattering Spree
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
Shoot the Gap: 5
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Wheel of Fortune
Beaters: 6
4 Kargan Dragonlord
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Chaos Warp
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Pithing Needle
1 Stranglehold
I think that revoker is a good addition. Wheel is definitely a powerful card but I find that many of my games are locked down with us both having quite a few cards in hand. I fear that many times wheel would only draw you a couple cards and possibly help them draw into an answer for your lockdown. There are of course the times where it reads "You draw 6 cards and your opponent draws 1". Probably warrants testing, let me know.
Shusher can be SO key to getting through your own chalice at 1. He definitely saved me big time a few times. I am going to have to look at Revoker some more for sure...
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
It seems to be the cheapest deck on Vintage right now.
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
If you look at any deck and they have 2 or less basic lands or all the mox then this deck has a shot against it. That is a lot of Vintage decks. I tend to do well vs. blue control decks (you countered my chalice for 0? Here's a blood moon!) and dredge (They just fold to turn 1 blood moon). It seemed even to bad vs. MUD but Shattering Spree helps. Storm is about even and depends on who plays first and whether you can drop a moon effect before they go off. I haven't played enough fish decks (and they vary a lot) to really know.
Whenever I played TMWA everyone was very interested in the deck and said that it seemed powerful. It did to me too. It is very good at shutting down decks unless they can counter blood moon or magus of the moon.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
How does this deck hold up today? I really like mana denial strategies.
I am not sure. The vintage Metagame hasn't changed enough to make this deck irrelevant as it can just shut down dredge and MUD. There are still a decent number of decks running Force of Will but you will run into enough that don't that a turn one moon effect will still be powerful.
Since I purchased my power I have been playing Grixis Control. Plus I moved and there is NO Vintage in my area now. Basically I haven't played this deck for almost a year.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener