This my BG dragon build. I would play 5c dragon however I do not have the cards, so instead I am trying BG Budget dragon. I am currently not playing spoils of the vault but is that a better direction to go with the deck? Anyway help apprciated.
There are a couple of things wrong with this build.
1. Strip Mine does not belong in Dragon at all.
2. Three kill conditions is overkill. I'd get rid of the Sliver Queen, as Caller lets you go off with no permanent mana sources.
3. Two cards your deck desperately needs is Mana Crypt and Demonic Consultation.
As for Spoils, I'd be inclined to run it over Imperial Seal, as it is an instant rather than a sorcery, but it would be something that required testing.
EDIT: I didn't even notice the Wastelands. Take those out too. You should add in Lotus Petal and ESGs for mana acceleration
EDIT2: So a full summary of my recommended changes:
-1 redundant Black Lotus (you have two in your list)
-1 Strip Mine
-3 Wasteland
+1 Mana Crypt
+1 Lotus Petal
+3 Elvish Spirit Guide
-1 Sliver Queen
+1 Demonic Consultation
Fake EDIT3: Where the hell are your Squees?
-4 Duress
+4 Squee
Are there any other dragons than BG? Senseless...
10 Reanimation cards is too much. Especially with Duress. You'd better reduce them to 8 and put some SQUEEs in?! As weell as Buried Alive, whicj=h is slow and not needed.
Caller and Silverqueeen in ONE build? Wtff? There is need of some way to avoid Platinum Angel. Maybe some kind of shooter (Siege-gang? some kind of dragon I'don't remember) and Badlands in SB?
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Whenever enchanted land becomes tapped, everyone goes WHHEEE
your mom uses the stack
Someday all lands will be controlled by all players and all creatures will be equal.
I see your point on wasteland strip mine and have cut them. I am currently also running 3 spoils because I felt the build needed more search.
The main thing I disagree with is cutting duress. Without duress dragon scoops to way to much hate. Squee is only good with bazaar and I feel it would be overkill to run him.
Buried alive is nesscary for the deck to work, otherwise your only discard outlet is bazaar and if that gets wasted or needled you are toast.
I think Ancienct hydra would be a good replacement for silver queen to take care of platz.
I see your point on wasteland strip mine and have cut them. I am currently also running 3 spoils because I felt the build needed more search.
The main thing I disagree with is cutting duress. Without duress dragon scoops to way to much hate. Squee is only good with bazaar and I feel it would be overkill to run him.
Buried alive is nesscary for the deck to work, otherwise your only discard outlet is bazaar and if that gets wasted or needled you are toast.
I think Ancienct hydra would be a good replacement for silver queen to take care of platz.
Don't cut the Duresses, just move them to the SB. The hate you fear won't be main decked anyway. 8 disruption slots is simply too many for BG dragon. You want to be focusing on speed as much as you can. Ancient Hydra is also a possibility for the SB. Squee is absolutely crucial for those turn 2 or 3 combos where you need the extra one or two cards that Squee gives you. That situation comes up *alot*, trust me.
Artifacts
3 Null Rod
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
The list is pretty hot in concept...Id probably just go ahead and go with -1 Forest +1 Bayou...you have 4 loams to protect your non-basics anyways and you really want to have black mana online...You could probably also somewhat easily cut 1 wasteland here for the 4th bayou instead...youll get a waste or strip so fast that its probably not even needed to run 4 wastes...
I saw the thread on TMD about this deck, I think it warrents exprolation however I still have some of the concerns that were voiced in that thread. Such as the fact that dragon is really sacrificing all of its speed so it can do some tricky dredgeing and wasteland recursion. That coupled with the fact that I am making this deck for a friend who is unexperinced with Vintage and magic as a whole, who lacks alot of the playskill to play this deck, I am going to stick with BG Dragon. This deck does look like it has potential however I lack the time to test this deck and teach it to someone.
Sorry I praised that poorly, what I should have said is that it sacrifices the speed advantage it has over other decks. By running a dredge version of dragon, you take a fast clock and make it an average clock. It what do you get? You get a techy but kinda janky ability to recure wasteland. I am not saying this deck is bad, I am saying that it has not proven to better then the status quo, BG Dragon. In general speed>techiness
Of course it hasnt proven to be better...its brand spanking new...and actually in its one tournament run it made top 4 (if im not mistaken...)
Waste/Strip recursion while feeding your graveyard with your win conditions isnt too shabby if you ask me, it also gives dragon lasting power and the ability to play the beatdown role even more effectivly...Is the list perfect? probably not, but then again no list ever is...
I tell you this though...if I had this list this would have made it into my dredge article long before that other pile, heh.,..
could have a problem with removel decks that have damage and no criters/ or damage decks with no graveyards and things like distroy all non basic lands/or back to basics/ ?? 4 bazaars och,,, nice though for putting things into your grave yard but over rated such a card loss,whats what newer one that lets you draw when oppent discards just thoughts not always good could always grind stone your self ........chuckles........
The build presented in the first post is close to ideal when it comes to focusing on the single minded strategy: combo out asap. The only thing that's really missing is the tutoring beyond Vamp and Demonic - I think you should certainly try to find room for at least 3 Consultation/Spoils of the Vault - to make room, I would drop one Necromancy/Dance and that Entomb, which is near useless without having a Bazaar in play already. I would also exchange the Imperial Seal for a Spoils. Stick to the 3 win conditions, although I'd probably go with 2 Queens and 1 Ambassador. Having Caller will rarely matter (having no permanent mana sources is very unlikely, and Root Maze is non-existent), and the Queens make nice alternate reanimation targets in a pinch. I also wouldn't ever worry about Platinum Angel, because Platinum Angel will never beat you - it will only prevent you from winning, and thats only if they actually play it AND manage to get it into play.
For the mana base, aside from the artifacts and Rituals, I'd consider something very solid like this:
3x Bayou (no need to max out on Bayous)
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Poluted Delta
6x Swamp
This is a blazingly fast deck. You are limited by the fact that you cannot draw cards, but you have mass redundancy and very strong catch-all disruption in Xantid, which means you'll be stealing a LOT of games because you'll be the faster goldfish. Don't let anyone tell you that 9-10 animate spells is too much, because there will be games where you'll need multiples to chip away at the counter-walls. Also, I would ignore the doomsayers with their claims that there is too much hate. That is nonsense. Creature/enchantment hate is at an all-time low (almost non-existent in the main deck), and graveyard hate has been largely trimmed back. Your biggest obstacles will be Pithing Needle and your own deck. The latter is the more serious of the two, but given your budget constraints this is about as well as you can do for a non-U WGD deck with the single minded goal of comboing off asap.
Quick Update here, my friend played this and went 2-4 at the tourny. I think he could have won more games had he played better however all the matches he lost were 1-2. This tells me the sideboard needs improvement. Here is the list he played.
4 Worldgorger Dragon 1 Amabassador Laquates 1 Caller of the Claw 1 Eternal Witness 1 Drain Life
3 Necromancy 4 Animate Dead 2 Dance of the Dead 3 Buried Alive 3 Spoils of the Vault 4 Dark Ritual 4 Duress 3 Xantid Swarm 1 Entomb 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor* 1 Demonic Consultation 1 Black lotus* 1 Mox Jet* 1 Mox Emerald* 1 Black Lotus* 4 Bazaar of Baghdad**** 4 Bayou**** 2 Polluted Delta** 1 Windswept Heath 3 Elvish Spirit Guides 4 Swamp
Sideboard: 4 Chalice of the Void 4 Naturalize 1 Xantid Swarm 3 Darkblast 3 Daibolic Edict
that list is just really sub-optimal in a lot of ways...Ive really really never liked Dark Ritual based dragon decks...but thats just me (or well, the fact that they never actually do well despite people thinking they are good)
I really discourage Dragon without Force of Will or something - You're so vunerable don't you think? I understand Duress will help take out some counters and what not but still, as a Fish player ( which isn't a majority I know ) I just don't see how you could win against me or someone like me w/ disruption main deck.
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1 Amabassador Laquates
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Silver Queen
3 Necromancy
4 Animate Dead
3 Dance of the Dead
4 Buried Alive
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Entomb
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Black lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Swamp
This my BG dragon build. I would play 5c dragon however I do not have the cards, so instead I am trying BG Budget dragon. I am currently not playing spoils of the vault but is that a better direction to go with the deck? Anyway help apprciated.
1. Strip Mine does not belong in Dragon at all.
2. Three kill conditions is overkill. I'd get rid of the Sliver Queen, as Caller lets you go off with no permanent mana sources.
3. Two cards your deck desperately needs is Mana Crypt and Demonic Consultation.
As for Spoils, I'd be inclined to run it over Imperial Seal, as it is an instant rather than a sorcery, but it would be something that required testing.
EDIT: I didn't even notice the Wastelands. Take those out too. You should add in Lotus Petal and ESGs for mana acceleration
EDIT2: So a full summary of my recommended changes:
-1 redundant Black Lotus (you have two in your list)
-1 Strip Mine
-3 Wasteland
+1 Mana Crypt
+1 Lotus Petal
+3 Elvish Spirit Guide
-1 Sliver Queen
+1 Demonic Consultation
Fake EDIT3: Where the hell are your Squees?
-4 Duress
+4 Squee
10 Reanimation cards is too much. Especially with Duress. You'd better reduce them to 8 and put some SQUEEs in?! As weell as Buried Alive, whicj=h is slow and not needed.
Caller and Silverqueeen in ONE build? Wtff? There is need of some way to avoid Platinum Angel. Maybe some kind of shooter (Siege-gang? some kind of dragon I'don't remember) and Badlands in SB?
The main thing I disagree with is cutting duress. Without duress dragon scoops to way to much hate. Squee is only good with bazaar and I feel it would be overkill to run him.
Buried alive is nesscary for the deck to work, otherwise your only discard outlet is bazaar and if that gets wasted or needled you are toast.
I think Ancienct hydra would be a good replacement for silver queen to take care of platz.
Don't cut the Duresses, just move them to the SB. The hate you fear won't be main decked anyway. 8 disruption slots is simply too many for BG dragon. You want to be focusing on speed as much as you can. Ancient Hydra is also a possibility for the SB. Squee is absolutely crucial for those turn 2 or 3 combos where you need the extra one or two cards that Squee gives you. That situation comes up *alot*, trust me.
heh..
Team Ogre Dredge-Dragon:
Enchantments
2 Animate Dead
2 Dance of the Dead
3 Necromancy
Sorceries
4 Life from the Loam
4 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
Instants
1 Entomb
3 Darkblast
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Krosan Reclamation
1 Crop Rotation
1 Ebony Charm
Creatures
1 Eternal Witness
1 Caller of the Claw
2 Xantid Swarms
4 Worldgorger Dragon
Lands
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
2 Forest
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
Artifacts
3 Null Rod
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
The list is pretty hot in concept...Id probably just go ahead and go with -1 Forest +1 Bayou...you have 4 loams to protect your non-basics anyways and you really want to have black mana online...You could probably also somewhat easily cut 1 wasteland here for the 4th bayou instead...youll get a waste or strip so fast that its probably not even needed to run 4 wastes...
ALL of its speed? you sure about that?
Waste/Strip recursion while feeding your graveyard with your win conditions isnt too shabby if you ask me, it also gives dragon lasting power and the ability to play the beatdown role even more effectivly...Is the list perfect? probably not, but then again no list ever is...
I tell you this though...if I had this list this would have made it into my dredge article long before that other pile, heh.,..
For the mana base, aside from the artifacts and Rituals, I'd consider something very solid like this:
3x Bayou (no need to max out on Bayous)
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Poluted Delta
6x Swamp
This is a blazingly fast deck. You are limited by the fact that you cannot draw cards, but you have mass redundancy and very strong catch-all disruption in Xantid, which means you'll be stealing a LOT of games because you'll be the faster goldfish. Don't let anyone tell you that 9-10 animate spells is too much, because there will be games where you'll need multiples to chip away at the counter-walls. Also, I would ignore the doomsayers with their claims that there is too much hate. That is nonsense. Creature/enchantment hate is at an all-time low (almost non-existent in the main deck), and graveyard hate has been largely trimmed back. Your biggest obstacles will be Pithing Needle and your own deck. The latter is the more serious of the two, but given your budget constraints this is about as well as you can do for a non-U WGD deck with the single minded goal of comboing off asap.
4 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Amabassador Laquates
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Eternal Witness
1 Drain Life
3 Necromancy
4 Animate Dead
2 Dance of the Dead
3 Buried Alive
3 Spoils of the Vault
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Entomb
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor*
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Black lotus*
1 Mox Jet*
1 Mox Emerald*
1 Black Lotus*
4 Bazaar of Baghdad****
4 Bayou****
2 Polluted Delta**
1 Windswept Heath
3 Elvish Spirit Guides
4 Swamp
Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Naturalize
1 Xantid Swarm
3 Darkblast
3 Daibolic Edict
Sideboard suggestions?
that list is just really sub-optimal in a lot of ways...Ive really really never liked Dark Ritual based dragon decks...but thats just me (or well, the fact that they never actually do well despite people thinking they are good)
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