MTG Salvation

After some discussion with a very helpful member here, we have hammered out this list



More testing is required of course, but it is atleast playable and can win games in this stage

Funny, I was just working on a deck using the same critters as you right now. However, my intentions are to make a casual oriented build, as I can't see this strategy being any competitive in the near future. Vintage is just too fast and consistent now days.

I want to utilize Bazaar of Baghdad, Squee, Goblin Nabob and Zombie Infestation engine together with Bloodghast, Cabal Therapy and Helm of Possession.

It would have been nice to have Goblin Welder in there as well so that I could use Possessed Portal in the mix, but its unnecessary and would complicate things too much probably.

So instead I think I will try Sadistic Sacrament and Extirpate instead. Some faster way to kill than Zombie Tokens / Ghast beats would be nice too, but not sure what to use tho.

D3@D

Perhaps some of those cards (Crucible of Worlds, Fastbond, Zuran Orb, Bloodghast) could be used in a stax deck. If you have Zuran Orb in the mix then Balance should not be far away, and if you have Crucible of the Worlds, Strip Mine should not be far away. Besides that, Smokestacks will love Bloodghast =/



If you want this to be competitive rather then casual I would forget about Skullclamp and start thinking about Null Rod. For the most part right now, competitive decks are divided into Null Rod vs Time Vault. Fortunately, you can still use Crucible of the Worlds, Smokestack, Fastbond, Strip Mine, and Bloodghast under Null Rod. Another thing is you could try out Legacy, and forgot about both Skullclamp and Fastbond.

Ya, after a suggestion from a friend of mine, I think I am gunna try to Combo the clamp engine into fueling a HUGE Mirror Entity with Zuran Orb and Crucible of Worlds..add the Fastbond and your gunna make those Bloodghasts and Nether Traitors game breaking

I would add Blue for Tinker & Counters. It's not a stretch anymore with the U/G Fetchlands.

Course the problem is that the deck has been around forever and essentially hasn't gotten any faster, by that I mean Fastbond/Zuran Orb/Crucible of Worlds. Adding Bloodghast with Skullclamp does give you a draw engine, then adding Smokestack gives you lock components, but it is diffusing the central focus of the deck and slowing it down. But curious to see what you come up with - good luck.

Rough Draft in testing atm, more ocming soon I think lol

Well tested this vs a Tez build, they got out turn 2 Tinkered Inkwell, Zuran Orb gave me an extra turn of Life then managed to draw into the combo with Bazaar finding Lotus and Crucible at the same time, a billion life stopped the Inkwell and if he conceded as even if he got the Vault/Key online, he couldn't take enough turns to get thru my life total. If he had had Necropotence he would have been able to not draw and thus could kill me that way but BBB is a drawback even though he was playing with Dark Confidants.

He asked to see the victory condition and showed him how I could draw my whole deck with the Bloodghast and the Clamp. But that didn't really kill him - he conceded even though he may have been able to win as I had drawn more cards, the Bob he had in play was likely to kill him. I had discarded the Mirror Entity turn one as I thought there was a way to recurse it.

Comments - the two clamps seem excessive for only 6 creatures that you want to clamp, Yawgmoth's will is needed for some form of recursion, maybe even Regrowth since you're in color, while I am curious how you intend to cast Mirror Entity without white, the Lotus is the only way?

Seems like Thoughtseize would be better then Hymn, as it's less black intensive.

Channel would be great but how to fit it in is the question.

Game 2 was a blowout, as he simply countered my Crucible and my Ghost Quarters were ineffective against his Islands. Then Tez & Vault showed up and I conceded.

ok, so lets try this. How did the card draw work out for you? is there better we can add?

Since you are still using only 2 green spells do you really need 4 Fetchlands + 10 Green Producing Lands + Artifact Mana, while Black has 24 spells (10-12 of which you don't cast much) and only 10 Lands + Artifact Mana (Rituals don't count but I can see where you're coming from).

Why not adjust a tad, drop some Overgrown Tombs and Increase your Scrublands, possibly adding some Marsh Flats for additional thinning.

Finally another couple of considerations - Balance - since you are splashing White - works well with your recursion and the Bazaars. Crop Rotation to find just the land you need and get your Bloodghasts back into play. Life from the Loam & Grim Discovery are also possibilities. On the outside looking in, is Enlightened Tutor, but I think that Vampiric and Demonic are better tutors. The Discovery is marginal but it does allow you to get back the Entity.

If you add these cards not sure what to drop. I am not overwhelmed by your win condition, gaining a billion life insures nothing if you end up decking yourself. If your entity is removed from the game via plow, path, Extirpate, Ravenous Trap etc, that is very possible. You could consider adding a Piranha Marsh for your kill card, this takes you closer to the Legacy 43 land version. You simply Orb it then replay it with you Crucible, while Crop Rotation could find it more easily. This takes away messy problems with something wierd that would not allow you to attack like Moat or Ensnaring Bridge.

Quote from Beralt

Since you are still using only 2 green spells do you really need 4 Fetchlands + 10 Green Producing Lands + Artifact Mana, while Black has 24 spells (10-12 of which you don't cast much) and only 10 Lands + Artifact Mana (Rituals don't count but I can see where you're coming from).

Why not adjust a tad, drop some Overgrown Tombs and Increase your Scrublands, possibly adding some Marsh Flats for additional thinning.

Finally another couple of considerations - Balance - since you are splashing White - works well with your recursion and the Bazaars. Crop Rotation to find just the land you need and get your Bloodghasts back into play. Life from the Loam & Grim Discovery are also possibilities. On the outside looking in, is Enlightened Tutor, but I think that Vampiric and Demonic are better tutors. The Discovery is marginal but it does allow you to get back the Entity.

If you add these cards not sure what to drop. I am not overwhelmed by your win condition, gaining a billion life insures nothing if you end up decking yourself. If your entity is removed from the game via plow, path, Extirpate, Ravenous Trap etc, that is very possible. You could consider adding a Piranha Marsh for your kill card, this takes you closer to the Legacy 43 land version. You simply Orb it then replay it with you Crucible, while Crop Rotation could find it more easily. This takes away messy problems with something wierd that would not allow you to attack like Moat or Ensnaring Bridge.

Wow, you are totally right, I didnt even think of running something like Piranha Marsh. This is why I brought it here to discuss and tweak lol

Well like your new version, did one game self-test vs this http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29358
Essentially a MUD deck.

Got Wasteland Recursion going, after MUD had two spheres in play and locked the MUD deck out - easy win, but not sure this is by any means a definitive test.

Do like the added Duresses and the singleton Skeletal Scrying. Liked the addition of the Glacial Chasm. With Crop Rotation you can have a single green available and be facing down Iona & Hellkites, simply Crop Rotate into Glacial Chasm and smile.

If Tez locks you with Key/Vault their bounce won't effect the Chasm, they will have to let you out of the lock to get rid of the land.

Good fixes to the mana base.

Quote from Beralt

Well like your new version, did one game self-test vs this http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29358
Essentially a MUD deck.

Got Wasteland Recursion going, after MUD had two spheres in play and locked the MUD deck out - easy win, but not sure this is by any means a definitive test.

Do like the added Duresses and the singleton Skeletal Scrying. Liked the addition of the Glacial Chasm. With Crop Rotation you can have a single green available and be facing down Iona & Hellkites, simply Crop Rotate into Glacial Chasm and smile.

If Tez locks you with Key/Vault their bounce won't effect the Chasm, they will have to let you out of the lock to get rid of the land.

Good fixes to the mana base.

I also think the sideboard will help address some additional Flaws

I.e

I have a vintage tournament on satuday. I expected to play some classic form of ubr drain control deck (aka tez) but I think I just might, if I find someone to lend me the cards I miss, play that deck instead just for kicks.

Quote from Xwt

I have a vintage tournament on satuday. I expected to play some classic form of ubr drain control deck (aka tez) but I think I just might, if I find someone to lend me the cards I miss, play that deck instead just for kicks.

I am still hammering out the sideboard, but I think Ground Seal is a must, and might have to be a x4. It stop's Extripate which I am finding out is a huge issue for this deck, as it stops most of our tricks and tools. I love the card draw engine, so I might be albe to forego anymore draw and just stick with the Skullclamp/ghast route. Other then that I think we might have the option of a transforming sideboard, and maybe toss Smoke Stacks in the board, or something of that nature.

I am glad you are happy - I think it's reasonably solid, with that said I am still not sure it can keep up with some of the Tier 1 Speed that is out there - counters are going to be messy as is anything that messes with your graveyard - so you will suffer from Ichorid splash hate.

i think blue is worth considering (possibly overhauling this original deck) since intuitioning for Bloodghasts and Skullclamps with Academy Ruins is pretty silly. Not sure how would one go with making that deck with FOWs/Drains perhaps.

I really think in the colors that this deck is, the sideboard is going to help solidify the weaker matchups for this deal
For example



That sideboard is a basic toolbox, but it will depend heavily on your local type1 meta for sure

I was actually going to use Karakas to stop Iona, Shield of Emeria. I am playing The Mighty Quinn in legacy and I am using the same answer there. With Crop Rotation I can really keep Iona off their game long enough for me to seal a win, but I will take all your suggestions into testing. Thanks for more advice, and keep the suggestions coming.

In retrospect looking over the deck I do like the Balance but it's only an afterthought, which has value, but doesn't necessarily contribute to the theme of the deck. And the kill mechanism of Mirror Entity while flashy seems extraneous, once your online you can kill with Piranha Marsh - while true it does give us an alternate win condition but it doesn't neccessarily contribute to the theme of the deck.

I guess in that if you look at the only 2 white cards as being only marginal in value, you might want to look at dropping White and adding Blue - which would allow the original suggestion of Tinker/Ancestral/Gifts & some counters. I guess if you really want Karakas, you would have to keep white, but it has little other use in vintage, while Maze of Ith would get around Iona's color requirement and be tutorable with Crop Rotation.

Ya I am wondering about the possible color additions. Blue seems like I am getting the weak side of because I really dont get to take advantage of thinks like Force of Will and Mana Drain. I can try to squeeze some more space out of the deck, but lets take a look first.



So basically, I think I need to move the idea to Bloodghast and Skullclamp as a card draw engine, and then build the deck around that. In this build the blue seems a little forced, but workable at the same time. I think what the deck ends up being is crucible control, with a very useful card draw engine.

Aura Shards ftw?

I guess I don't see the need for Mana Drain, it's going to rip the mana base wide open or leave you with cards stranded in your hand. How bout Negate? You don't really need the mana from the drain, what would you power out? And with the exception of Bobs and Welders, there are few creatures that really effect the game state - Negate stops 90% of the spells played.

I might add back in the Mox Emerald and cut the Imperial Seal, Gifts Ungiven is a supplemental tutor. Then to compelte your gifts package you might want to consider Academy Ruins and Life from the Loam - I think it's the right move to lose the Traitors. And now that you have additional protection/disruption in counters (whetere you go with Drains or Negate) you might have room to cut down on the discard to make room for another Skullclamp or gifts package items.

As an alternative win condition you could include Necro, simply get to a billion life then don't draw anymore cards.

Quote from Beralt

I guess I don't see the need for Mana Drain, it's going to rip the mana base wide open or leave you with cards stranded in your hand. How bout Negate? You don't really need the mana from the drain, what would you power out? And with the exception of Bobs and Welders, there are few creatures that really effect the game state - Negate stops 90% of the spells played.

I might add back in the Mox Emerald and cut the Imperial Seal, Gifts Ungiven is a supplemental tutor. Then to compelte your gifts package you might want to consider Academy Ruins and Life from the Loam - I think it's the right move to lose the Traitors. And now that you have additional protection/disruption in counters (whetere you go with Drains or Negate) you might have room to cut down on the discard to make room for another Skullclamp or gifts package items.

As an alternative win condition you could include Necro, simply get to a billion life then don't draw anymore cards.

Ya that list was for testing, I am playing about 10 games with each build against a few builds, like Ionanimator/Tez/Pitch Long and others..I am not impressed with blue as a heavy color, but it works well with some of the single U spells like gifts/tinker/recall. I am prolly gunna go back to pushing the BGu and going from there. More testing is in order to be sure tho

Quote from TheCounterGuy

Ya I am wondering about the possible color additions. Blue seems like I am getting the weak side of because I really dont get to take advantage of thinks like Force of Will and Mana Drain. I can try to squeeze some more space out of the deck, but lets take a look first.

jhuni's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4x Bloodghast 2x Crucible of Worlds 2x Zuran Orb 1x Skullclamp 1x Black Lotus 1x Mox Jet 1x Mox Sapphire 1x Fastbond 4x Thoughtseize 3x Duress 4x Mana Drain 1x Skeletal Scrying 1x Regrowth 1x Crop Rotation 1x Tinker 1x Ancestral Recall 1x Gifts Ungiven 1x Brainstorm 1x Vampiric Tutor 1x Demonic Tutor 1x Imperial Seal 1x Yawgmoths Will	4x Bazaar of Baghdad 3x Wasteland 1x Strip Mine 1x Glacial Chasm 1x Piranha Marsh 4x Polluted Delta 2x Verdant Catacombs 4x Underground Sea 3x Tropical Island 2x Bayou

So basically, I think I need to move the idea to Bloodghast and Skullclamp as a card draw engine, and then build the deck around that. In this build the blue seems a little forced, but workable at the same time. I think what the deck ends up being is crucible control, with a very useful card draw engine.

Err, what the heck is the list supposed to do exactly? I noticed the deck uses 3 DT (DT, VT, and Seal), what exactly are those cards going to be searching for? Also IMO, if you have Bazaar of Baghdad in your deck as your engine and you are not a manaless Ichorid deck, then you should find a place for Null Rod, seriously, since Baazar is unaffected by the Rod, as well as Crucible of Worlds.

-2 Zuran Orb (You already got rid of balance, the logical next step is to get rid of the card that you will drop for 0 and almost never use).
-1 Skullclamp (Why do you have only one of skullclamp, besides it isn't useful in competitive vintage and Null Rod shuts it down).
-1 Imperial Seal (This card is a sorcery and it puts things on the top of your deck, besides unless you are ready to add Time Vault as a combo piece, I don't think you will be needing this)
+4 Null Rod (I cannot stress how useful this card can be)
-4 Thoughtsieze
+4 Force of Will (you already have duress, you don't need that and Thoughtsieze, besides Force of Will is a super powerful card)
-1 Skeletal Scrying
+1 Duress

There you go that sounds good for starters =/, I will come by and actually build a related list sometime.