I've generally preferred the Elephant Oath build of decks, but decided to throw in 2x Dragon Breath and go back down to the two "Golden Gun" creatures of Blightsteel and Emrakul based on some of these results:
This second set seems to forego Vault/Key altogether, or at the most, have it in the sideboard. Gifts is completely gone; while most of these T8s are in the 20-participant range and run 15 lands minimum, 16 lands max, while the deck that beat a 53-player field ran 17 with TWO maindeck Beast Within. Most everyone has abandoned Tolarian Academy.
- Tolarian Academy. This has caused me to mulligan plenty, and is dead MANY times. I don't want to splash red as most builds, so I wonder if Strip or an additional Tropical (to make 3x in the deck) is a better choice.
- Beast Within has been great: takes out Mana Crypt during infinite Vault turns, and has allowed me to survive a resolved SadSac with Beast beats, and helps me get around Chalices at 1 and 2. Anyone see drawbacks? Is there enough mana to run another from the sideboard?
- Vault/Key. I guess in addition to Dragon Breath, it's more dead cards, but the results above seem to justify it. But I still can't get around taking this out of the deck. I see how the focus switches to adding more cards to support protecting your limited 2 creature WinCons, but are there other significant benefits to cutting this?
- Scroll/Ponder. I'm very open to cutting Ponder, but not Scroll, which gets me Ancestral and protection. I haven't missed Gifts. Other than "depends on your meta," any pros/cons on Scroll/Ponder and/or replacement ideas? (the Ambrojo deck ran 3x Negate and maindeck Steel Sabotage for example)
- Land count. I do have a Shop-heavy meta, and test a lot against Shop with my 17 land build, and I don't really sweat for land (maybe just cut Tolarian and go to a 16 land build)? Meta influences sideboard, and most of the lists I pulled are from Europe, and I wonder if that is an influence on the lower land count.
I'm also testing running minus the off-color moxen and staying counter heavy, and that has been very solid.
Thoughts on any of my questions are greatly appreciated.
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Show and Oath was pretty good for me at Gencon. The missteps were weak in the first prelim I played, which made me very concerned. I kept them in for the champs, and the next 2 side events and they were great.
Missteps shine the brightest in games 2 and 3. If oath hate is getting brought in vs. you it is probably natures claim (1cc) and general hate because you play blue (REB and pyroblast).
I kept the second dragons breath in for the prelim, cut it for a balance for champs, a side event, then cut balance for a maindeck ancient grudge.
I found that the deck has to play aggressively. Aside from ancestral recall the deck does not have any form of card advantage (ie no gush, jace, tezz, thirst, gifts, fact or fiction, bob, nights whisper, etc).
If missteps are not in the main, I do not believe there is room in the SB. Specifically slots from shops would probably get cut (which I would advise against, 1 slot at most).
I played a total of 25 vintage matches over the course of gencon, facing shops with and without panther (4 or 5) times. I was able to win every match against them. Having 4 claims, 2 grudges, and a forest allows for what seems to be a comfortable matchup. I can't see where the missteps could fit in the board unless you decided to play the dredge gambit and just cut leylines. I played vs dredge once, losing g1 and winning g2 and g3. I would have lost it hands down w/out leylines.
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1450
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1446
One build chucks Merchant Scroll, the other chucks Gifts/Regrowth, both chucked Ponder.
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1455
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1449
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1448
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1445
This second set seems to forego Vault/Key altogether, or at the most, have it in the sideboard. Gifts is completely gone; while most of these T8s are in the 20-participant range and run 15 lands minimum, 16 lands max, while the deck that beat a 53-player field ran 17 with TWO maindeck Beast Within. Most everyone has abandoned Tolarian Academy.
I've adopted -1 Gifts, +2 Dragon Breath, +1 Beast Within, keeping Scroll, Ponder and Vault/Key.
Can I get some thoughts on:
- Tolarian Academy. This has caused me to mulligan plenty, and is dead MANY times. I don't want to splash red as most builds, so I wonder if Strip or an additional Tropical (to make 3x in the deck) is a better choice.
- Beast Within has been great: takes out Mana Crypt during infinite Vault turns, and has allowed me to survive a resolved SadSac with Beast beats, and helps me get around Chalices at 1 and 2. Anyone see drawbacks? Is there enough mana to run another from the sideboard?
- Vault/Key. I guess in addition to Dragon Breath, it's more dead cards, but the results above seem to justify it. But I still can't get around taking this out of the deck. I see how the focus switches to adding more cards to support protecting your limited 2 creature WinCons, but are there other significant benefits to cutting this?
- Scroll/Ponder. I'm very open to cutting Ponder, but not Scroll, which gets me Ancestral and protection. I haven't missed Gifts. Other than "depends on your meta," any pros/cons on Scroll/Ponder and/or replacement ideas? (the Ambrojo deck ran 3x Negate and maindeck Steel Sabotage for example)
- Land count. I do have a Shop-heavy meta, and test a lot against Shop with my 17 land build, and I don't really sweat for land (maybe just cut Tolarian and go to a 16 land build)? Meta influences sideboard, and most of the lists I pulled are from Europe, and I wonder if that is an influence on the lower land count.
I'm also testing running minus the off-color moxen and staying counter heavy, and that has been very solid.
Thoughts on any of my questions are greatly appreciated.
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1467
He runs 4x Show and Tell, 4x Emrakul, 1x Blightsteel.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff
Missteps shine the brightest in games 2 and 3. If oath hate is getting brought in vs. you it is probably natures claim (1cc) and general hate because you play blue (REB and pyroblast).
I kept the second dragons breath in for the prelim, cut it for a balance for champs, a side event, then cut balance for a maindeck ancient grudge.
I found that the deck has to play aggressively. Aside from ancestral recall the deck does not have any form of card advantage (ie no gush, jace, tezz, thirst, gifts, fact or fiction, bob, nights whisper, etc).
AVOID MTG Fanatic ! Remands Orders and Re-lists cards for more money!
I played a total of 25 vintage matches over the course of gencon, facing shops with and without panther (4 or 5) times. I was able to win every match against them. Having 4 claims, 2 grudges, and a forest allows for what seems to be a comfortable matchup. I can't see where the missteps could fit in the board unless you decided to play the dredge gambit and just cut leylines. I played vs dredge once, losing g1 and winning g2 and g3. I would have lost it hands down w/out leylines.
AVOID MTG Fanatic ! Remands Orders and Re-lists cards for more money!