So I want to make a fun deck for Vintage and I always did enjoy Forbidden Oath. I was talking with some people and I have a VAGUE (key word) idea of what it should look like that I make. I was thinking something like...
I haven't really thought about what should go in a side deck, as I want to get a main deck down first before I start thinking of something else. I was wondering if I could get some help on my first vintage deck. Thanks ya'll.
Edit 1: Made SOME of a side deck, it's NOT fantastic. I know it needs a lot of work.
Edit 2: Someone else made a good point. I forgot about Ghost Quarter. Added 2 basic lands over City of Bass and dropped Jace, the Mind Sculpture for Vampiric Tutor.
Edit 3: Thanks to MamaGrizzlyBear for the advice. I changed up the deck over all, removed MOST of the white and black and added more blue.
Edit 4: I CAN NOT BELIEVE I FORGOT ABOUT TIME WALK! I still need help with the side deck, but i want to concentrate on the Main Deck first. I have Strip Mine in for other Oath Decks and Tolarian Academy.
So I want to make a fun deck for Vintage and I always did enjoy Forbidden Oath. I was talking with some people and I have a VAGUE (key word) idea of what it should look like that I make. I was thinking something like...
I haven't really thought about what should go in a side deck, as I want to get a main deck down first before I start thinking of something else. I was wondering if I could get some help on my first vintage deck. Thanks ya'll.
Essentially, Oath has to be out by turn 2. Even better if turn 1. I accomplish that with the chrome mox. Sometimes I'm a little slow with Idyllic tutor, but usually have it out by turn 2. If I have concordant crossroads in my hand, I can put it out and swing with the first creature that comes out.
I understand why you have blue in the deck, and don't necessarily disagree. It may slow you down though. If I don't get an Oath or tutor in my opening hand, I mulligan. It really is that important. You'll need a lot of blue to ensure you can use your FoW's.
My iteration has great recovery from most anything. Disenchants, counterspells, removal cards and so forth. With 8 tutors, I can fetch almost anything I need since my utilities are enchantments.
Hunting grounds for getting creatures out of your hand if you draw them
Flashback spells to utilize the ~15 cards in the graveyard from Oathing
Journey to Nowhere because it deals with my opponents Emrakul.
Gaea's blessing to prevent decking myself, or just being milled out of the game (Eldrazi help with that too.)
Everything is aimed at synergy. I always have an appropriate card to tuck under the chrome mox. When in trouble I can answer it with enchantments, that I can tutor for if needed. My graveyard becomes an additional utility with flashback.
I would be wary of cutting the basics. They can be nice to fetch against non-basic land hate, and Ghost Quarter sees some play. I also would recommend flusterstorm rather than Mental Misstep. I haven't been impressed with MM, but it's a bit metagame dependent. Flusterstorm is also good for winning counter wars.
also, oath on the first or even second turn is not necesarily the best play. Against some decks perhaps it is (Shops for example), but against other decks you need a counter or two to help push oath through and to make sure you don't die if you have to pass one or more turns.
I've played oath for like7-8 years.
your dudes should be good enough to not need haste. Also, you are running to many dudes.
crop rotation is unnecessary, and you'll occasionally get blown out because it is countered. your already running 6 off color sources, you don't need to fetch for white. 1-0 forests main is max. this isn't the kind of deck that wants to run bargain or twister. idilic tutor is cute and all but too expensive and its white. Your putting yourself in the "i tapped out and killed my self" possition a lot. I wouldn't play mystical tutor before vampiric tutor. Enlightened tutor is kinda meh for a 2 of. your definitely running too many - CA tutors. ancestral, drain, brainstorm, and fow alone are enough to justify merchant scroll.
Saying oath has to be out turn two is flat wrong you play the control game at them
I've played oath for like7-8 years.
your dudes should be good enough to not need haste. Also, you are running to many dudes.
crop rotation is unnecessary, and you'll occasionally get blown out because it is countered. your already running 6 off color sources, you don't need to fetch for white. 1-0 forests main is max. this isn't the kind of deck that wants to run bargain or twister. idilic tutor is cute and all but too expensive and its white. Your putting yourself in the "i tapped out and killed my self" possition a lot. I wouldn't play mystical tutor before vampiric tutor. Enlightened tutor is kinda meh for a 2 of. your definitely running too many - CA tutors. ancestral, drain, brainstorm, and fow alone are enough to justify merchant scroll.
Saying oath has to be out turn two is flat wrong you play the control game at them
Wow 8 years is quiet a while.
I dropped my creatures back down to three. I see your point when you talk about too many guys. I was testing the current version on Cockatrice. I kept getting Sphinx of the Steel Wind w/o Bargain TOO often. So I dropped Sphinx and Yawgmoth's Bargain for two Mind Sculptures as they'll give me more Brainstorming.
I also dropped my Underground Sea, Savannah and Plateau for another Island, Forest & Tropical Island. I know Ghost Quarters is still played in Vintage so I can grab me more land.
Timetwister is in namely because: I already HAVE a Timetwister. Why not use it if I already own one? But I can see why it's niche is hard to find as it COULD give my opponent some Force of Wills and as mine or side decked, I can understand TW's removal.
What's CA Tutor?
With your advice, I changed up the deck. Did I do better or did I do worst? I'm in the process of getting the lower cost cards, I just don't want to say buy a bunch of Enlightens but end up getting talked down to using one or two or shelling out for Mana Drains as they're NOT Legacy legal. So I do better this time or did I do worst?
You really cannot run "golden gun" oath ( Blightsteel Colossus/ Dragon's Breath) if you run more creatures then just the blightsteel. Consider "Demon" oath ( Rune-scarred Demon) to Fetch either to fetch Tezzeret, the Seeker/ Time Vault combo piece and play for infinite turns. Lastly, consider adding a Memory's Journey for emergency Graveyard recursion. If you oath away a timetwister, the net 6 cards return by Memory's Journey provides ways to prevent a deck-out loss, which has happen to me.
Saying oath has to be out turn two is flat wrong you play the control game at them
I agree with this, people really need to go to youtube and look Bob Maher Oath from Pro Tour Chicago 1998. As Randy Buehler stated, Oath is the best anti-creature hoser (personally I think it is better then Moat.) You have to play a control game, yes it would be Awesome to play turn 2 oath then Beatdown with a haste Emakraul, but you have to realize all the cards you lose to self mill by doing so. If you are not in a position well to defend the oath or the creature, you basically gave your opponent massive card advantage. Its best to get into position, to instantly turn on oath with Forbidden Orchard then get the win. If you are playing it strictly for Beatdown, then you're really playing the deck with wrong mentality.
I dropped my creatures back down to three. I see your point when you talk about too many guys. I was testing the current version on Cockatrice. I kept getting Sphinx of the Steel Wind w/o Bargain TOO often. So I dropped Sphinx and Yawgmoth's Bargain for two Mind Sculptures as they'll give me more Brainstorming.
I also dropped my Underground Sea, Savannah and Plateau for another Island, Forest & Tropical Island. I know Ghost Quarters is still played in Vintage so I can grab me more land.
Timetwister is in namely because: I already HAVE a Timetwister. Why not use it if I already own one? But I can see why it's niche is hard to find as it COULD give my opponent some Force of Wills and as mine or side decked, I can understand TW's removal.
What's CA Tutor?
With your advice, I changed up the deck. Did I do better or did I do worst? I'm in the process of getting the lower cost cards, I just don't want to say buy a bunch of Enlightens but end up getting talked down to using one or two or shelling out for Mana Drains as they're NOT Legacy legal. So I do better this time or did I do worst?
a -ca, minus card advantage, tutor is a tutor that doesn't put the card in your hand, top deck tutors. You lose one card to cast it. Things like demonic tutor and merchant scroll replace themselves, and are ca neutral tutors , whereas cards like mystical tutor and vampiric tutor do not. For that reason you really want to minimize the number you run most of the time. Vamp getting anything and mystical, getting instants and sorceries, are seen as the most acceptable ones being at instant speed. However, you'll often want to bored them out against blue decks, because you're not really on a silver bullet plan against them. If I were going to run enlightened tutor, I’d play one tundra main and around 5 fetches, you need a very good reason ore white heavy deck to justify basic plains, and I’m just not seeing it here.
Personally I’ve always hated GG oath, because drawing dragon’s breath is so awful. Things like lightning grieves and swift boots are poor draws unless you’re in a position where you have a line at activating oath, situations you are already winning and scenarios where equipment’s and creature enchantments aren’t helping along your game plan. If I was dedicated to having a hasty dude, I’d favor the breath’s over the equipment, less vulnerable to counter magic, pithing needle, null rod ect… if I wanted that effect, I’d chose the most reliable one.
Ghost quarter currently sees less play than it used to. In generally sees play in shop decks because it is good in the mirror, and control decks want to fetch out their basics for you. You are not really disrupting the opponents and mana resource axis, so I wouldn’t bother with it or strip mine.
Mana drain is the stone cold nuts. Flusterstorm is very good in the format too. recently I’ve been unhappy with pierce, but occasionally it is what you want to run.
I’d advice not playing city of brass unless you want to play a burning long variant, which is definitely more of a tendrils list than an oath list. Don’t be afraid to run more than 4 fetch if you are having color fixing issues
Don’t be afraid to try out 1-3 dudes, as in don’t just decide you like a number and stick with it forever, actually play games with different stuff and don’t be afraid to lose a lot. Same thing goes for, memory’s journey, gaea’s blessing, and neither.
You’re definitely moving in the right direction. I do have to ask why no force of will? And have you tried Griselbrand?
I actually think strip mine is okay in the deck. For the record i wasn't suggesting he add Ghost Quarter, but rather have basics so he could have something to grab if his lands got Ghost Quartered.
Also, I don't think you should play more than 2 mana drains, since they require you to leave open mana that you could have used to play oath. However, they are pretty fantastic when they net you a large amount of mana, and Drain into TFK or a planeswalker would put you pretty far ahead.
Also, dude, Time Walk. Probably deserves a spot. maybe swap an equipment for it.
I actually think strip mine is okay in the deck. For the record i wasn't suggesting he add Ghost Quarter, but rather have basics so he could have something to grab if his lands got Ghost Quartered.
Also, I don't think you should play more than 2 mana drains, since they require you to leave open mana that you could have used to play oath. However, they are pretty fantastic when they net you a large amount of mana, and Drain into TFK or a planeswalker would put you pretty far ahead.
Also, dude, Time Walk. Probably deserves a spot. maybe swap an equipment for it.
walk is completely nessisary.
As far as basics go, 2 island and 1 forest is plenty, the plains is 100% wrong still even if ghost quarter starts seeing play again.
the strip min is completely random. It will cost more plays and games then it will win you, especially with that forest more drains and jaces
walk is completely nessisary.
As far as basics go, 2 island and 1 forest is plenty, the plains is 100% wrong still even if ghost quarter starts seeing play again.
the strip min is completely random. It will cost more plays and games then it will win you, especially with that forest more drains and jaces
I agree with you about the plains. However, I've seen a number of Oath lists with the strip mine. I've never played with it myself though. Although now that I think about it, I believe I've seen it mostly in unpowered lists where that little bit of mana denial can randomly win games.
Check out the ORIGINAL post. I have it updated, there is NO Plains in the deck. The only White in the deck is Iona and TWO Enlightended Tutors.
I'm thinking about Merchant Scroll/Mystic Tutor but I'm NOT sure if those would slow down the deck or speed it up.
I don't think mystical tutor is worthwhile, since it can't find oath, so finding something that maybe finds oath and putting it on top of your deck is probably too slow. If you're looking for another tutor, you could consider Imperial Seal. it's a sorcery but it it will find oath.
Merchant scroll merits testing I think, Although i imagine most of the time it will just find you a counterspell. If you find that's what you need, then by all means try it out. I've never been a big fan of merchant scroll myself but it sees it's fair share of play.
I'm personally not a fan of the main deck Iona. Having a third target gives you less chance of hitting Dragon Breath. I think you should have another counterspell, so I suggest Flusterstorm as it is better at helping you resolve your threats than stopping the opponent's threats.
The Swiftfoot Boots seems a little weak, and I would rather have a second Dragon Breath instead. Seems like it gives your opponent less chance to randomly stop your combo with artifact hate.
Also, question about the mana base: with just the Forbidden Orchards and Moxen, do you ever have trouble casting Enlightened/Demonic/Vampiric Tutor? Would it be incorrect to cut a basic Forest and replace it with either a Bayou, Underground Sea, or City of Brass?
I don't care for Merchant Scroll in a deck like this. Spending 2 at sorcery speed to tutor up a counterspell or Recall could be situationally ok, but it probably just clogs up the deck more than anything.
Oath has always seemed like a fun deck choice to me, and I agree that going with Golden Gun Oath is a better choice.
That's just my two cents. I am pretty new, so hopefully I'm not giving you too much bad advice. Good luck with the deck!
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I agree with you about the plains. However, I've seen a number of Oath lists with the strip mine. I've never played with it myself though. Although now that I think about it, I believe I've seen it mostly in unpowered lists where that little bit of mana denial can randomly win games.
Not to be to blatant about it, but those lists are old. The most recent one being from 2011. Yes oath list have run strip mine in the past but two things are different
1: they had cards that supported or complimented strip mine; like the elephant, wasteland, loam, or crucible. This list doesn't, it's just a random inclusion.
2: the need to interact is more immediate than ever before. Strip mine is just another land that doesn't tap for blue. It will cost you plays like jace with time walk/drain/fluster storm/spell pierce/tinker/ect back up.
Think about it, are you adding strip mine to tap for a colorless mana, because that's awful, or to blow something up? If your blowing something up with it it's a random one of that doesn't contribute to your gameplay from a significant angle and can cost you from playing blue spells on time or in optimal sequence. It's a card that might be randomly good, but you want to see it as a random one of in your opener (because that's where it is typically best) while you also don't want to see it randomly in your opener because it doesn't tap for blue. It's an inherit paradox in this list that you're just kind of hoping doesn't screw you when you see it.
If you want to try the resource denial plan go for it, but at least do it right and run more than solo strip mine. Obviously, I wouldn't recommend it with burning long running around though.
also, that's crossroads is going to kill you you never want to cast the card unless oath has been activated, so it's dead unless you've already resolved and activated oath. Cards that are only good after you've accomplished your main goal don't cut it in vintage. If executing you main goal needs help, then you need a better goal, in this case oath target. It's a cold reality.
^ this applies to all of your haste equipments as well.
Also, what's with the ulamog in the sb? You going to get cast trigger off of him? The indestructibility seems poor considering vintage removal is primarily bounce or exile.
Your sb has a lot of wacky stuff going on. It need to address three things; combo, shop, and dredge. Currently it does none of these (your 2-3 cards off from acceptable amount of dredge hate). The threshold enchantment is cute, but show and tell just seems more consistent, as well has has applications against counter magic.
I second the not playing mystical idea. Test out scroll and imp seal and see how you like them. I've played them both over the years. Admittedly a lot more scroll than seal but they're always both worth testing.
Not to be to blatant about it, but those lists are old. The most recent one being from 2011. Yes oath list have run strip mine in the past
alright dude fair enough. I was merely saying I'd seen it before but never played it and it was something to consider. OP seems to like it since its made the cut now more than once.
anyway, my suggestions for the sideboard
Iona (not in the main deck if she's in the board)
4x artifact hate (minimum, oath can get away with only 4 but I don't think I'd be comfortable with it.)
5x grave hate
5x other stuff
for the artifact hate, you're probably looking at Steel Sabotage or Nature's Claim or some combination of the two. I'm partial to SS, personally, but you could start with an even split.
I'm not sure about the grave hate. Leyline of the Void is my go-to card for this, but I think it's a bad choice here, since it'll be a dead draw if it's not in your opening hand. Maybe Surgical Extraction or Tormod's Crypt? Surgical can sometimes crap on random combo decks too so i'd probably lean towards that. If you hit a Bridge from Below against dredge that should slow them enough for you to win.
I think the needles are the best bet in an unknown meta. But those two slots are flexible. Don't forget that your Forbidden Orchards give you a little flexibility in the colors you use, but I wouldn't go wild with off color sideboard cards, since you can't be guaranteed to be able to cast them.
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1x Blightsteel Collosus
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
Instant 14
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Crop Rotation
1x Vampiric Tutor
2x Enlightened Tutor
4x Force of Will
4x Spell Pierce
Sorceries 8
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Gaea's Blessing
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Time Walk
1x Timetwister
1x Tinker
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Black Lotus
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Time Vault
1x Voltaic Key
Enchantments 6
1x Concordant Crossroad
1x Dragon's Breath
4x Oath of Druids
Planeswalker 3
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
2x Jace, the Mind Sculpture
Lands 16
1x Stripmine
1x Tolarian Academy
2x Forest
2x Island
2x Tropical Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Forbidden Orchard
1x Iona, the Shield of Emeria
1x It That Betrays
1x Island Sanctuary
1x Progenitus
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2x Hunting Grounds
4x Surgical Extraction
4x Mana Drain
I haven't really thought about what should go in a side deck, as I want to get a main deck down first before I start thinking of something else. I was wondering if I could get some help on my first vintage deck. Thanks ya'll.
Edit 1: Made SOME of a side deck, it's NOT fantastic. I know it needs a lot of work.
Edit 2: Someone else made a good point. I forgot about Ghost Quarter. Added 2 basic lands over City of Bass and dropped Jace, the Mind Sculpture for Vampiric Tutor.
Edit 3: Thanks to MamaGrizzlyBear for the advice. I changed up the deck over all, removed MOST of the white and black and added more blue.
Edit 4: I CAN NOT BELIEVE I FORGOT ABOUT TIME WALK! I still need help with the side deck, but i want to concentrate on the Main Deck first. I have Strip Mine in for other Oath Decks and Tolarian Academy.
I would drop the following
Iona Shield of Emeria
Spinx of the Steel Wind
Lightning Greaves
And add the following
Dragon's Breath X2
Blightsteel Colosis X1
I would also cut the 3 basic lands in favor of City of Brass.
I also don't think Mana Drain is going to do a lot for you, you may want to add Mental Mistep in its place.
Good luck!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?b=8439
Essentially, Oath has to be out by turn 2. Even better if turn 1. I accomplish that with the chrome mox. Sometimes I'm a little slow with Idyllic tutor, but usually have it out by turn 2. If I have concordant crossroads in my hand, I can put it out and swing with the first creature that comes out.
I understand why you have blue in the deck, and don't necessarily disagree. It may slow you down though. If I don't get an Oath or tutor in my opening hand, I mulligan. It really is that important. You'll need a lot of blue to ensure you can use your FoW's.
My iteration has great recovery from most anything. Disenchants, counterspells, removal cards and so forth. With 8 tutors, I can fetch almost anything I need since my utilities are enchantments.
Hunting grounds for getting creatures out of your hand if you draw them
Flashback spells to utilize the ~15 cards in the graveyard from Oathing
Journey to Nowhere because it deals with my opponents Emrakul.
Gaea's blessing to prevent decking myself, or just being milled out of the game (Eldrazi help with that too.)
Everything is aimed at synergy. I always have an appropriate card to tuck under the chrome mox. When in trouble I can answer it with enchantments, that I can tutor for if needed. My graveyard becomes an additional utility with flashback.
I don't run Blighsteel Colossus because I get screwed by Act of Treason, Reins of Power and other cards.
My Buying Thread
I would be wary of cutting the basics. They can be nice to fetch against non-basic land hate, and Ghost Quarter sees some play. I also would recommend flusterstorm rather than Mental Misstep. I haven't been impressed with MM, but it's a bit metagame dependent. Flusterstorm is also good for winning counter wars.
why not play Vampiric tutor as well?
also, oath on the first or even second turn is not necesarily the best play. Against some decks perhaps it is (Shops for example), but against other decks you need a counter or two to help push oath through and to make sure you don't die if you have to pass one or more turns.
your dudes should be good enough to not need haste. Also, you are running to many dudes.
crop rotation is unnecessary, and you'll occasionally get blown out because it is countered. your already running 6 off color sources, you don't need to fetch for white. 1-0 forests main is max. this isn't the kind of deck that wants to run bargain or twister. idilic tutor is cute and all but too expensive and its white. Your putting yourself in the "i tapped out and killed my self" possition a lot. I wouldn't play mystical tutor before vampiric tutor. Enlightened tutor is kinda meh for a 2 of. your definitely running too many - CA tutors. ancestral, drain, brainstorm, and fow alone are enough to justify merchant scroll.
Saying oath has to be out turn two is flat wrong you play the control game at them
Wow 8 years is quiet a while.
I dropped my creatures back down to three. I see your point when you talk about too many guys. I was testing the current version on Cockatrice. I kept getting Sphinx of the Steel Wind w/o Bargain TOO often. So I dropped Sphinx and Yawgmoth's Bargain for two Mind Sculptures as they'll give me more Brainstorming.
I also dropped my Underground Sea, Savannah and Plateau for another Island, Forest & Tropical Island. I know Ghost Quarters is still played in Vintage so I can grab me more land.
Timetwister is in namely because: I already HAVE a Timetwister. Why not use it if I already own one? But I can see why it's niche is hard to find as it COULD give my opponent some Force of Wills and as mine or side decked, I can understand TW's removal.
What's CA Tutor?
With your advice, I changed up the deck. Did I do better or did I do worst? I'm in the process of getting the lower cost cards, I just don't want to say buy a bunch of Enlightens but end up getting talked down to using one or two or shelling out for Mana Drains as they're NOT Legacy legal. So I do better this time or did I do worst?
I agree with this, people really need to go to youtube and look Bob Maher Oath from Pro Tour Chicago 1998. As Randy Buehler stated, Oath is the best anti-creature hoser (personally I think it is better then Moat.) You have to play a control game, yes it would be Awesome to play turn 2 oath then Beatdown with a haste Emakraul, but you have to realize all the cards you lose to self mill by doing so. If you are not in a position well to defend the oath or the creature, you basically gave your opponent massive card advantage. Its best to get into position, to instantly turn on oath with Forbidden Orchard then get the win. If you are playing it strictly for Beatdown, then you're really playing the deck with wrong mentality.
a -ca, minus card advantage, tutor is a tutor that doesn't put the card in your hand, top deck tutors. You lose one card to cast it. Things like demonic tutor and merchant scroll replace themselves, and are ca neutral tutors , whereas cards like mystical tutor and vampiric tutor do not. For that reason you really want to minimize the number you run most of the time. Vamp getting anything and mystical, getting instants and sorceries, are seen as the most acceptable ones being at instant speed. However, you'll often want to bored them out against blue decks, because you're not really on a silver bullet plan against them. If I were going to run enlightened tutor, I’d play one tundra main and around 5 fetches, you need a very good reason ore white heavy deck to justify basic plains, and I’m just not seeing it here.
Personally I’ve always hated GG oath, because drawing dragon’s breath is so awful. Things like lightning grieves and swift boots are poor draws unless you’re in a position where you have a line at activating oath, situations you are already winning and scenarios where equipment’s and creature enchantments aren’t helping along your game plan. If I was dedicated to having a hasty dude, I’d favor the breath’s over the equipment, less vulnerable to counter magic, pithing needle, null rod ect… if I wanted that effect, I’d chose the most reliable one.
Ghost quarter currently sees less play than it used to. In generally sees play in shop decks because it is good in the mirror, and control decks want to fetch out their basics for you. You are not really disrupting the opponents and mana resource axis, so I wouldn’t bother with it or strip mine.
Mana drain is the stone cold nuts. Flusterstorm is very good in the format too. recently I’ve been unhappy with pierce, but occasionally it is what you want to run.
I’d advice not playing city of brass unless you want to play a burning long variant, which is definitely more of a tendrils list than an oath list. Don’t be afraid to run more than 4 fetch if you are having color fixing issues
Don’t be afraid to try out 1-3 dudes, as in don’t just decide you like a number and stick with it forever, actually play games with different stuff and don’t be afraid to lose a lot. Same thing goes for, memory’s journey, gaea’s blessing, and neither.
You’re definitely moving in the right direction. I do have to ask why no force of will? And have you tried Griselbrand?
Also, I don't think you should play more than 2 mana drains, since they require you to leave open mana that you could have used to play oath. However, they are pretty fantastic when they net you a large amount of mana, and Drain into TFK or a planeswalker would put you pretty far ahead.
Also, dude, Time Walk. Probably deserves a spot. maybe swap an equipment for it.
walk is completely nessisary.
As far as basics go, 2 island and 1 forest is plenty, the plains is 100% wrong still even if ghost quarter starts seeing play again.
the strip min is completely random. It will cost more plays and games then it will win you, especially with that forest more drains and jaces
I agree with you about the plains. However, I've seen a number of Oath lists with the strip mine. I've never played with it myself though. Although now that I think about it, I believe I've seen it mostly in unpowered lists where that little bit of mana denial can randomly win games.
I'm thinking about Merchant Scroll/Mystic Tutor but I'm NOT sure if those would slow down the deck or speed it up.
I don't think mystical tutor is worthwhile, since it can't find oath, so finding something that maybe finds oath and putting it on top of your deck is probably too slow. If you're looking for another tutor, you could consider Imperial Seal. it's a sorcery but it it will find oath.
Merchant scroll merits testing I think, Although i imagine most of the time it will just find you a counterspell. If you find that's what you need, then by all means try it out. I've never been a big fan of merchant scroll myself but it sees it's fair share of play.
The Swiftfoot Boots seems a little weak, and I would rather have a second Dragon Breath instead. Seems like it gives your opponent less chance to randomly stop your combo with artifact hate.
Also, question about the mana base: with just the Forbidden Orchards and Moxen, do you ever have trouble casting Enlightened/Demonic/Vampiric Tutor? Would it be incorrect to cut a basic Forest and replace it with either a Bayou, Underground Sea, or City of Brass?
I don't care for Merchant Scroll in a deck like this. Spending 2 at sorcery speed to tutor up a counterspell or Recall could be situationally ok, but it probably just clogs up the deck more than anything.
Oath has always seemed like a fun deck choice to me, and I agree that going with Golden Gun Oath is a better choice.
Overall, my suggestions:
-1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
-1 Swiftfoot Boots
+1 Dragon Breath
+1 Flusterstorm
That's just my two cents. I am pretty new, so hopefully I'm not giving you too much bad advice. Good luck with the deck!
Current Decks
Standard:
WUBRG Enter the Door
Modern:
WURG Kiki-Pod
Legacy:
U Jitte Fish
Vintage:
UW Bomberman
Casual:
GU Gilt-Leaf Elf Ball
EDH:
WRG Uril, the Miststalker
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
RUG Riku of Two Reflections
B Seizan Zombies
Not to be to blatant about it, but those lists are old. The most recent one being from 2011. Yes oath list have run strip mine in the past but two things are different
1: they had cards that supported or complimented strip mine; like the elephant, wasteland, loam, or crucible. This list doesn't, it's just a random inclusion.
2: the need to interact is more immediate than ever before. Strip mine is just another land that doesn't tap for blue. It will cost you plays like jace with time walk/drain/fluster storm/spell pierce/tinker/ect back up.
Think about it, are you adding strip mine to tap for a colorless mana, because that's awful, or to blow something up? If your blowing something up with it it's a random one of that doesn't contribute to your gameplay from a significant angle and can cost you from playing blue spells on time or in optimal sequence. It's a card that might be randomly good, but you want to see it as a random one of in your opener (because that's where it is typically best) while you also don't want to see it randomly in your opener because it doesn't tap for blue. It's an inherit paradox in this list that you're just kind of hoping doesn't screw you when you see it.
If you want to try the resource denial plan go for it, but at least do it right and run more than solo strip mine. Obviously, I wouldn't recommend it with burning long running around though.
also, that's crossroads is going to kill you you never want to cast the card unless oath has been activated, so it's dead unless you've already resolved and activated oath. Cards that are only good after you've accomplished your main goal don't cut it in vintage. If executing you main goal needs help, then you need a better goal, in this case oath target. It's a cold reality.
^ this applies to all of your haste equipments as well.
Also, what's with the ulamog in the sb? You going to get cast trigger off of him? The indestructibility seems poor considering vintage removal is primarily bounce or exile.
Your sb has a lot of wacky stuff going on. It need to address three things; combo, shop, and dredge. Currently it does none of these (your 2-3 cards off from acceptable amount of dredge hate). The threshold enchantment is cute, but show and tell just seems more consistent, as well has has applications against counter magic.
I second the not playing mystical idea. Test out scroll and imp seal and see how you like them. I've played them both over the years. Admittedly a lot more scroll than seal but they're always both worth testing.
alright dude fair enough. I was merely saying I'd seen it before but never played it and it was something to consider. OP seems to like it since its made the cut now more than once.
anyway, my suggestions for the sideboard
Iona (not in the main deck if she's in the board)
4x artifact hate (minimum, oath can get away with only 4 but I don't think I'd be comfortable with it.)
5x grave hate
5x other stuff
for the artifact hate, you're probably looking at Steel Sabotage or Nature's Claim or some combination of the two. I'm partial to SS, personally, but you could start with an even split.
I'm not sure about the grave hate. Leyline of the Void is my go-to card for this, but I think it's a bad choice here, since it'll be a dead draw if it's not in your opening hand. Maybe Surgical Extraction or Tormod's Crypt? Surgical can sometimes crap on random combo decks too so i'd probably lean towards that. If you hit a Bridge from Below against dredge that should slow them enough for you to win.
as for the other stuff, that's meta dependent. You could add another artifact and/or grave hate hard, maybe Pithing Needle. I think 2-3 flusterstorm should definitely be in the board (and I'd put the remainder maindeck). They're great against combo and good at forcing your combo through.
Here's what I would start with:
3 Steel Sabotage
2 Nature's Claim
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Flusterstorm
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Pithing Needle
I think the needles are the best bet in an unknown meta. But those two slots are flexible. Don't forget that your Forbidden Orchards give you a little flexibility in the colors you use, but I wouldn't go wild with off color sideboard cards, since you can't be guaranteed to be able to cast them.