I am new to this Vintage format and I reviewed the primary deck times and found Tezz to my liking (Plus I have always had a soft spot for Time Vault from the good old days). It would be greatly appreciated if you guys help me tweak this deck where it needs it for competitiveness. I havent bought many of the cards so I wanna get the decklist just right.
The meta I will be entering is in NJ. They have monthly tournaments of 20-40 folks and I wanna leap right in and be competitive.
One thing I wanted to bring up was the discussion of Blightsteel vs Inkwell Leviathan. I understand the one hit kill of Blightsteel, but how heavy of a field is Swords and Paths?
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Forbidden alchemy is an interesting choice. I can dig it. I Question the presence of Welders since there isn't a good way for you to take advantage of them other than making extra mana. Since you have plenty of ways to get certain cards into your yard, you might try adding another artifact to weld in. Inkwell, Myr Battlesphere or Mindslaver are all decent options. If you decide to play more with the welders, Gifts Ungiven is fantastic.
I think -1 Snapcaster, +1 Welder, -1 Fire//Ice, +1 Gifts Ungiven, -1 Mystical Tutor, +1 (Inkwell | Battlesphere | Mindslaver) is what I'd do.
I am seriously considering add Ral Zarek in place of one of my Tezzerets. If not that, in place of a Blightsteel. What you guys think?
I really love his flexibility as he allows me to do my infinite turns plus I can use his lightning bolts in times of need.
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I think a 1-1-1 split of Jace/Tezz/Ral is a good idea, I'm convinced Ral has the stuff to be vintage material. He's good with goblin welder and other stuff. The utility of having 3 different PW's is sweet, and with all the tutoring/drawing/digging you have finding them shoudn't be an issue. Although I think tezz is the most useful to you. perhaps you could squeeze in the ral zarek elsewhere? do you need Fire//Ice?
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So I took out blightsteel for Ral and it has been very nice. He combos with time vault for infinite turns with his first ability. His second has been great to help with the occasional pain in the butt creatures.
No regrets on the change at all.
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Solid idea, however what would I swing to place it in and how many would be good to add?
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You don't need 2 tinker targets. I might loose the snapcasters or a forbidden alchemy. You could also consider skullclamp to sac strix for draw then weld in for draw. Finally, tez agent of bolus could be really good.
I had thought about it, but honestly the deck doesnt run green or white, so it would just be colorless mana. I think I like the few colorless mana sources already in the deck. I am running three colors so I really need to balance my mana sources carefully to execute it all.
As far as the Baleful Strix idea, I really like the card and I already took out the second tinker target for Ral Zarek. I love his flexibility and have found him to be super useful! First turn Ral has been so awesome.
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With artifact lands, you can play spells then use his +1 to untap two lands. If need be his -x can find you artifact lands too...since their cmc is 0. Usually by the time his -5 becomes relevant I have at least 5 artifact lands.
I'll pop his -5 and have four or five 5/5 artifact creatures ready to swing through for the kill.
The synergy is fantastic. Every time he hits play he accelerates my plays (with the +1 on artifact lands) and usually mobilizes my entire mana-base as an attack force.
The only thing to worry about is a board wipe, and someone packing mass artifact hate.
Bio the plan with this deck is to stall them long enough to get Time Vault and one of the ways to untap it for free. Thats infinite turns. I have done it as early as 1st turn. But thats the goal, with a Tinker and Inkwell Leviathan backup. The rest of the deck is designed to slow down my opponents until this happens.
Artifact lands indeed would completely shift the plan of this deck.
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If the purpose of your deck is to with via infinite turns with time vault, why are you busy slowing your opponents down instead of speeding the deck up. By adding more acceleration (more moxen, grim monolith, etc.) and going essentially mono blue but for a misers underground and swamp, you become extremely resilient to workshops while being able to drop threats before mana drain comes online and have extra mana to play through spell pierce. Tez isn't just infinite turns: it's its own win con. If you up the number of Jaces and Tezzerets, you have a very efficient tutor engine with a built in end-game. It's just a suggestion, but I know this type of strategy has had success in the past.
Additionally, with the influx of all these efficient weenies, like Deathrite shaman, Snapcaster, and the rest, most decks are very good at playing mid-range. Therefore, it behooves you to do the same. My suggestion is to pick one corner of the deck spectrum and rock it out to the fullest (prison, control, aggro, or combo), overwhelming your opponent because they don't have enough tools to play your game. Landstill has been enjoying great success, 16x fish Lords won worlds, and the decklists from worlds would have been ripe for ritual combo. By going that far to the left or right, you make your deck less interactive, thereby becoming more broken (even with fair decks).
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Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
If the purpose of your deck is to with via infinite turns with time vault, why are you busy slowing your opponents down instead of speeding the deck up. By adding more acceleration (more moxen, grim monolith, etc.) and going essentially mono blue but for a misers underground and swamp, you become extremely resilient to workshops while being able to drop threats before mana drain comes online and have extra mana to play through spell pierce. Tez isn't just infinite turns: it's its own win con. If you up the number of Jaces and Tezzerets, you have a very efficient tutor engine with a built in end-game. It's just a suggestion, but I know this type of strategy has had success in the past.
Additionally, with the influx of all these efficient weenies, like Deathrite shaman, Snapcaster, and the rest, most decks are very good at playing mid-range. Therefore, it behooves you to do the same. My suggestion is to pick one corner of the deck spectrum and rock it out to the fullest (prison, control, aggro, or combo), overwhelming your opponent because they don't have enough tools to play your game. Landstill has been enjoying great success, 16x fish Lords won worlds, and the decklists from worlds would have been ripe for ritual combo. By going that far to the left or right, you make your deck less interactive, thereby becoming more broken (even with fair decks).
So I think have to agree with your idea for the direction a deck like this should take in the current metagame, but for a slightly different reason: Deathrite Shaman in particular. Now that Deathrite Shaman is becoming more and more omnipresent in Vintage, Goblin Welder is not as strong as it once was. You would either need to pack 4x Lightning Bolt maindeck to killl DRS, or drop the welders. If you drop the welders, then going more combo-centric is probably the way to go. Then you can outrace the slower creature decks that can't interact much with your plan. If you drop the red, then your manabase becomes more stable. Even with 2 colors, you can run multiple basics and a complement of fetches and never really fear Wasteland. And a deck like this will be able to pack solid disruption without losing too much speed.
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I am new to this Vintage format and I reviewed the primary deck times and found Tezz to my liking (Plus I have always had a soft spot for Time Vault from the good old days). It would be greatly appreciated if you guys help me tweak this deck where it needs it for competitiveness. I havent bought many of the cards so I wanna get the decklist just right.
The meta I will be entering is in NJ. They have monthly tournaments of 20-40 folks and I wanna leap right in and be competitive.
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Tolarian Academy
Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
Black
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
1 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Tinker
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Time Walk
Red
3 Goblin Welder
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Steel Sabotage
2 Echoing Truth
One thing I wanted to bring up was the discussion of Blightsteel vs Inkwell Leviathan. I understand the one hit kill of Blightsteel, but how heavy of a field is Swords and Paths?
darn this is a good deck, looks like it pithing needle will screw my friend's legacy dredge.
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
I think -1 Snapcaster, +1 Welder, -1 Fire//Ice, +1 Gifts Ungiven, -1 Mystical Tutor, +1 (Inkwell | Battlesphere | Mindslaver) is what I'd do.
I am seriously considering add Ral Zarek in place of one of my Tezzerets. If not that, in place of a Blightsteel. What you guys think?
I really love his flexibility as he allows me to do my infinite turns plus I can use his lightning bolts in times of need.
The card I am thinking of ditching is actually the Blightsteel.
No regrets on the change at all.
As far as the Baleful Strix idea, I really like the card and I already took out the second tinker target for Ral Zarek. I love his flexibility and have found him to be super useful! First turn Ral has been so awesome.
I run a modern r/b/u Mishra deck, that has 2 Tezzeret, the seeker.
With artifact lands, you can play spells then use his +1 to untap two lands. If need be his -x can find you artifact lands too...since their cmc is 0. Usually by the time his -5 becomes relevant I have at least 5 artifact lands.
I'll pop his -5 and have four or five 5/5 artifact creatures ready to swing through for the kill.
(The deck has 4 Vault of Whispers, 4 Seat of the Synod, and 4 Great Furnace. )
The synergy is fantastic. Every time he hits play he accelerates my plays (with the +1 on artifact lands) and usually mobilizes my entire mana-base as an attack force.
The only thing to worry about is a board wipe, and someone packing mass artifact hate.
BGGolgari ScavengeGB
RUIzzet DelverUR
Modern
RUB Mishra's SpellbombsBUR
EDH:
UWBDakkon BlackbladeBWU
RUB ThraximundarBUR
Artifact lands indeed would completely shift the plan of this deck.
Ahh. Good to know, thanks. :thumbsup::)
BGGolgari ScavengeGB
RUIzzet DelverUR
Modern
RUB Mishra's SpellbombsBUR
EDH:
UWBDakkon BlackbladeBWU
RUB ThraximundarBUR
Additionally, with the influx of all these efficient weenies, like Deathrite shaman, Snapcaster, and the rest, most decks are very good at playing mid-range. Therefore, it behooves you to do the same. My suggestion is to pick one corner of the deck spectrum and rock it out to the fullest (prison, control, aggro, or combo), overwhelming your opponent because they don't have enough tools to play your game. Landstill has been enjoying great success, 16x fish Lords won worlds, and the decklists from worlds would have been ripe for ritual combo. By going that far to the left or right, you make your deck less interactive, thereby becoming more broken (even with fair decks).
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
So I think have to agree with your idea for the direction a deck like this should take in the current metagame, but for a slightly different reason: Deathrite Shaman in particular. Now that Deathrite Shaman is becoming more and more omnipresent in Vintage, Goblin Welder is not as strong as it once was. You would either need to pack 4x Lightning Bolt maindeck to killl DRS, or drop the welders. If you drop the welders, then going more combo-centric is probably the way to go. Then you can outrace the slower creature decks that can't interact much with your plan. If you drop the red, then your manabase becomes more stable. Even with 2 colors, you can run multiple basics and a complement of fetches and never really fear Wasteland. And a deck like this will be able to pack solid disruption without losing too much speed.