Out of the new core set Alpine Moon has me pretty excited. It seems like a nice sideboard option for us but I have some concerns about it and was wondering what other people thought.
Pro: One mana solution to scapeshift, tron and any other pesky man lands That doesn't hurt our lands.
Con: it slows down tron, doesn't stop it.
I think this card is more meant for the smaller aggro based zoo not the more midrange zoo deck. The one mana helps with the surge cost of Reckless bushwhacker. The card for big zoo as I said above just slows down Tron and actually gives Tron an out to cast their Natures Claims to stop the hate. Am I missing a step of logic with this argument?
Alpine Moon/Damping Sphere/Blood Moon, all of these help the dreaded Tron Matchup. Which one to pick is totally up to how you decide to tackle the Titanshift and storm matchup. I personally see no reason to ever go back to blood moon in our deck because I don't feel the need to board in a bad topdeck to get free wins against random decks, so that leaves Alpine Moon and Damping Shpere for me. I personally see a lot more storm than I do titanshift so I play Sphere, and because it also hits other random combo decks like KCI. Now, if infect continues to see a rise then it may be correct to also play alpine moon to shut off inkmoth nexus, but for now I've settled on punting the titanshift matchup and only really having a fast clock + dromoka's command + random Gaddock Teeg interaction against the deck.
What do you mean by big an small room expectations and all-in strategies?
Small tournaments vs large tournaments. Small tournaments are easier to spike and win since there's maybe 7 different decks and they may not be prepared for you, whereas larger tournaments open you up to more pairings that might just be terrible matchups for you.
Love seeing everyone's success! I got another 3-1 finish at FNM with Queller Zoo. Damping Sphere was busted against Tron and Queller on their Walking Ballista! I was able to Queller multiple x spells at FNM and it felt great, and it won me another burn matchup that night too. The only loss was to grixis control which is normally a cake walk. The two games I lost involved mulling to five with my only land sacred foundry for 3 turns (couldn't cast anything) and then him having double anger of the gods when I did start casting things, and the second loss that match was to drawing 4 non-land cards the entire game. gg it happens sometimes.
Deck is primed to beat up on the fair decks right now, which is why naya midrange will always be a good tier 1.5-2 deck in the format. Fast, efficient creatures that put pressure on an opponent + best sideboard colors in modern = tier 1.5-2 consistently.
Hey guys! Sorry haven't posted this week, been a bit hectic with some work. Anyways here's the Queller Zoo list I've been playing this week to a 6-1 record. The only loss was to Affinity because of drawing forest/sacred foundry while having a bunch of lightning helix in hand and no creatures. That was an awkward game lol.
Spell Queller has been great in some matchups, single handedly beating two burn players. Also moving the dromoka's to the main has been great. I've only hit BBE into Queller twice, but never felt like it sucked as much as it sounds like it would.
So the point is to see if it helps give game against bad matchups, while probably only marginally making the good smiter matchups a little bit worse. Yes CoCo makes more sense with Queller, but BBE makes more sense with the other 71 cards, especially since I rely on a lot of non-creature permanents out of the board.
Mantis Rider/Reflector Mage serve a completely different use, although it was fun playing Mantis Rider in 5c Tribal Flames zoo. BBE -> Mantis Rider = GGGGGG
I knew I wanted to accomplish the 2 following things that have held the deck back imho:
Play at least 4 mana sink creatures (tracker/Scooze) and 2 mana sink lands (kessig+township)
Play aggressive 3 drops that protect jace well (brimaz > courser)
I hate unified will, the cards I want to counter are almost all non-creature, so there's no need for it imho. If I'm trying to hit creatures I'm doing so with the other 11/12 board slots.
2-0 blue moon (this one was absolutely savage but it's really just a story about me having a good time and my opponent getting blown out repeatedly so I'm not going to recount it; this shop was 2 hrs from me and this was one of the "good players" so it felt pretty good)
2-0 valakut
1-2 humans
2-1 tron
ID into top 8 split.
Really short tourney. Not that much to report.
For those figuring out the split between Blood Moon and Damping Sphere and picking your battles with Tron, Valakut, and storm-- Don't play Blood Moon! Play 2x Tectonic Edge. My Valakut opponent never got past 4 mana in game 2 after I stuck a Knight of the Reliquary. Against Valakut you have to draw a Blood Moon. If you play Tec edge you can draw a tec edge or you can draw a Knight.
Tectonic Edge is also great against Jeskai Control -- keeping them off of Cryptic or Verdict. I don't know if I like two against them but I do like sideboarding out at least one Arid Mesa for a Tectonic Edge. It's less good against Tron but I think our Tron MU is actually rather fine. I lost game 1 to turn after a natty turn 3 all is dust. Then ran him over with 2/3 Tarmogoyfs and a well timed Revelry on a map.
P.S. Is anyone looking to RPTQ foil out their Hierarchs? I'm your hookup for one!
@Zoolander, what sideboard would you run in the current meta (Jeskai Control, Humans, Mono Green Tron and KCI)?
I went to Domri’s in the main Jeskai. And currently have the following sideboard
3 Blood Moon (Jeskai, BGx, Tron)
2 damping matrix (Tron, KCI)
2 Thalia (KCI, Tron)
2 gaddock teeg (KCI, Tron, Jeskai)
1 ancient grudge (KCI)
1 Stony Silence (KCI, Tron)
1 Archangel (humans, Jeskai)
2 Kozilek’s return (Humans)
1 Grafdigger’s cage
I can't give an exact board, but I know I'd start off with these:
3 Damping Matrix
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Stony Silence
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Kozilek's Return
[quote from="Zulander »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/aggro-tempo/565682-zoo-video-primer?comment=8883"]Voice is bad against 6 cards in the deck, 4 path and 2 teferi, and literally every card in Zoo fits the same description.
I see your point but paying 2 mana for a 2/2 that trades with a lot seems not quite worth it to me. For me, Voice is always insane against bad players since they either overvalue removing it or are dumb about it's abilities. Good control players tend to evaluate Voice on it's face -- a 2/2 that restricts play lines.
Whatever big threat you want to play, go ahead. You can even make a case for Stormbreath Dragon as it's the best threat against UW, so however you decide to line your board up against your meta is fine. I think the ability of Voice impacting even a good players lines is worth it, again against Jeskai they only have 4 path to exiles that do much damage against you, so forcing them to find path for all your creatures is where they lose. Outside of Noble/Nacatl, bolt is bad which makes them have path for the other 21 creatures you play. Taking Voice out for Fleecemane Lion turns on their bolts/helixes for more creatures which gives them more flexibility. This is the largest reason why Jeskai is (was pre-walkers, I haven't tested enough currently) a good matchup and UW a bad one.
I'm gonna say some pretty heretical things, so please at least hear me out...
...Retreat to Coralhelm sucks right now, and has sucked for a while.
As someone who has been reading the thread sporadically (and hasn't built the deck yet), would you mind elaborating on this? I don't think your wrong, but I'm curious specifically what reasons make Coralhelm weak right now.
In the games I've played it's pretty lackluster, and often times I wished it were something else. With the rise of control and midrange, I don't think a 3 mana enchantment that doesn't affect the board is where you want to be.
Voice is bad against 6 cards in the deck, 4 path and 2 teferi, and literally every card in Zoo fits the same description. Voice is great because it lets you dictate how and when they play spells, which puts you in the drivers seat. Jeskai in general is easy because our deck makes Bolt a mediocre card, and Jeskai plays 6-8 bolts in the main, along with counterspells which are not great. Sure they have some cards that are relevant, but they don't always have the best cards. When they get the UW control draws then it can be tough, but not unwinnable. I personally have upped to 4 voice and have domri in the main. You have to continually stress their path to exiles, and if you can do that then you can win.
I also don't think Fleecemane is the right call. If you're gonna spend 5 mana then just spend the 5 mana and play Sigarda or some other fattie. I do think that this allows us to use some spicy sideboard cards that may not have been on the radar before, and I personally love Mastery of the Unseen against them. They usually don't have an answer to enchantments post board, and the card just punishes their Teferi "tucks".
Alpine Moon/Damping Sphere/Blood Moon, all of these help the dreaded Tron Matchup. Which one to pick is totally up to how you decide to tackle the Titanshift and storm matchup. I personally see no reason to ever go back to blood moon in our deck because I don't feel the need to board in a bad topdeck to get free wins against random decks, so that leaves Alpine Moon and Damping Shpere for me. I personally see a lot more storm than I do titanshift so I play Sphere, and because it also hits other random combo decks like KCI. Now, if infect continues to see a rise then it may be correct to also play alpine moon to shut off inkmoth nexus, but for now I've settled on punting the titanshift matchup and only really having a fast clock + dromoka's command + random Gaddock Teeg interaction against the deck.
Small tournaments vs large tournaments. Small tournaments are easier to spike and win since there's maybe 7 different decks and they may not be prepared for you, whereas larger tournaments open you up to more pairings that might just be terrible matchups for you.
Deck is primed to beat up on the fair decks right now, which is why naya midrange will always be a good tier 1.5-2 deck in the format. Fast, efficient creatures that put pressure on an opponent + best sideboard colors in modern = tier 1.5-2 consistently.
Guys.... GUYS..... GUYS!!!!
Idk but I feel like this will be the best one drop zoo creature from m19.
Burn: 3-0
Affinity: 0-1
Esper Death Shadow: 1-0
BW Eldrazi bears: 1-0
Humans: 1-0
Spell Queller has been great in some matchups, single handedly beating two burn players. Also moving the dromoka's to the main has been great. I've only hit BBE into Queller twice, but never felt like it sucked as much as it sounds like it would.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
//disruption
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Dromoka's Command
1 Domri Rade
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Stomping Ground
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Archangel Avacyn
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Lightning Helix
1 Dromoka's Command
1 Negate
2 Stony Silence
2 Damping Sphere
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Mantis Rider/Reflector Mage serve a completely different use, although it was fun playing Mantis Rider in 5c Tribal Flames zoo. BBE -> Mantis Rider = GGGGGG
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Path to Exile
1 Domri Rade
2 Dromoka's Command
1 Plains
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Field of Ruin
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Gavony Township
1 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
2 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
4 noble hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging OOze
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the reliquary
4 Spell Queller
2 Brimaz, king of oreskos
2 Tireless tracker
4 Collected Company
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Path to Exile
I knew I wanted to accomplish the 2 following things that have held the deck back imho:
Play at least 4 mana sink creatures (tracker/Scooze) and 2 mana sink lands (kessig+township)
Play aggressive 3 drops that protect jace well (brimaz > courser)
I hate unified will, the cards I want to counter are almost all non-creature, so there's no need for it imho. If I'm trying to hit creatures I'm doing so with the other 11/12 board slots.
Hey man congrats! How were the voices?
I can't give an exact board, but I know I'd start off with these:
3 Damping Matrix
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Stony Silence
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Kozilek's Return
Whatever big threat you want to play, go ahead. You can even make a case for Stormbreath Dragon as it's the best threat against UW, so however you decide to line your board up against your meta is fine. I think the ability of Voice impacting even a good players lines is worth it, again against Jeskai they only have 4 path to exiles that do much damage against you, so forcing them to find path for all your creatures is where they lose. Outside of Noble/Nacatl, bolt is bad which makes them have path for the other 21 creatures you play. Taking Voice out for Fleecemane Lion turns on their bolts/helixes for more creatures which gives them more flexibility. This is the largest reason why Jeskai is (was pre-walkers, I haven't tested enough currently) a good matchup and UW a bad one.
In the games I've played it's pretty lackluster, and often times I wished it were something else. With the rise of control and midrange, I don't think a 3 mana enchantment that doesn't affect the board is where you want to be.
I also don't think Fleecemane is the right call. If you're gonna spend 5 mana then just spend the 5 mana and play Sigarda or some other fattie. I do think that this allows us to use some spicy sideboard cards that may not have been on the radar before, and I personally love Mastery of the Unseen against them. They usually don't have an answer to enchantments post board, and the card just punishes their Teferi "tucks".