So I've been reading the results of the open and I can't help but notice that affinity was no where to be found. Admittedly, I haven't been keeping up much with the meta, but it seems as though the old aggro standby has been eclipsed of late. Is there a clear reason why? (Other than the inclusion of Stony Silence in every board that can run it) Is it as Ayiluss says, that the presence of UWR control and its sweeper effects? I'm just a lay person, but it seems that affinity is a strong enough deck to take on that particular challenge.
There hasn't been a drop off in my local meta (about 4 shops) of robots, I was just wondering why it seems like so few of the experts have been running the deck of late.
Sultai dredgevine with Zur's Weirding and bloodchief Ascension is the way to go, mill off your own vengevines, gravecrawlers, and bloodgasts and just to bring them right back. Use Lotloth troll, Jace, and things like way finding satyr, etc. to fill up your grave.
I like the card too, but I think pithing needle might just edge it out. I understand the allure of giving the effect legs to possibly block or even get some damage in, this could be (and very likely is) the problem with it. That Kiki chord deck that gets stifled now really only has to hang on to path or bolt. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a strong bit of sideboard tech., But I'd rather just run the needle and have it holding off the combo.
Coincidentally, needle in my board just got me a win against abzan aristocrats last night. Yay for killing of activated abilities.
P.S. If you're in white suppression field is a card to consider as well, unless you're looking to use activated abilities yourself.
hey fellas, I'm headed to gencon with my bant list and I'm looking at two different sideboards. I was wondering if I might be able to get the group's opinion.
Or some mixture of the two...or any other ideas.
Here's my bant list if it helps.
2 Heliod, God of the Sun
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Greater Auramancy
4 Ghostly Prison
2 Sphere of Safety
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Runed Halo
3 Suppression Field
3 Utopia Sprawl
2 Monastery Siege
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Starfield of Nyx
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Copy Enchantment
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Windswept Heath
3 Plains
4 Temple Garden
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Breeding Pool
1 Alchemist's Refuge
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Life from the Loam
1 Gifts Ungiven
How was Suppression overall and did it hinder you from your game plain sometimes?
I think it's great. I play primarily online so for me, I'm playing new people every game--often players don't know how to deal with it. I mean, if you're a grixis player and you draw a hand with 2 fetches and a basic you're going to keep it. If you're on the draw and opponent drops suppression field turn 2 you're stuck and it's got to be frustrating. Twin players, or any combo that relies on an activated ability, are essentially stopped until they can deal with it. That being said, it's a nonbo with Heliod and with a few of my lands, but I'll happily pay 3 to draw a card with Horizon Canopy, or two to destroy a Celestial colonnade. Heliod's tokens really only are really emerging when Nykthos is in play anyway which likely negates the nonbo--or at least makes it palatable. All that being said, I'll admit there are many cases in which I don't really want it...Elves for example. It does nothing to stop the mana generation that elves can generate. It doesn't do anything against Bloomtitan either. But in these cases it's an easy sideboard target for game 2 and 3. And in decks that run P-walkers or more than a few fetches (mine are really just for fetching around Bloodmoo) I wouldn't recommend them (definitely not in triplicate).
After seeing your list, you run a lot more fetches than I do so I'm not sure if you need one, but i'd definitely consider putting two in the board for the twin match up, or you can run pithing needle. You can probably slot one in your main in the place of Favor of the Mighty (I get why people love that card, but it's not for me) if you really wanted to. I think it's worth a investing some play testing time in. I'm not an expert, but i'm not sure if our deck really needs that many fetches. I'd rather use those fetches in another deck and keep my meta on its toes (and frac. gusts out of sideboards :).
As for your sideboard--I think it's okay, if you're looking for some space, I think celestial purge and Timely Reinforcements are the two to cut. I'm also a big fan of Defense Grid over eyes of the wisent. While I do love 4/4s, it doesn't stop the counter itself so they still get the value. And doesn't make a cryptic command cost 7--SEVEN! That's an expensive counter. Defense grid I think is just a better fit for our decks. I'm not sure you need another Luminarch in board either, i'd slot in something like Open the Vaults just as a fail-safe, or Pithing Needle or suppression field to shut down combos.
I've been running a Naya Shell for a while but recently switched over to a bant list that uses Monastery Siege and Life from the Loam as primary Starfield enablers. Right now I've settled on 2 Starfields, 2 Sigils, and 2 Heliods as my primary wincons and it seems to be working. I piloted this to a 4-2 result just the other day.
There's a lot of great bits of synergy, and cards like copy enchant and loam pull double duty. I didn't realize how great loam was going to be until I started drawing mad cards with Horizon Canopy. The Siege's a great for moving through the deck as well.
Round 1: Win 2-1 (Twin match up) Twin player gets a natural combo turn 4 in game 1, I board in all three Defense Grids and both pithing needles for games two and three. In game 2 I draw the pithing need and a leyline in my opening hand effectively shutting down the combo and the alternative win via burn. Game three, another leyline. I draw into some good luck and I'm able to drop a defense grid turn 2. From there, the deck is allowed to play out--sigil falls and angels galore.
Round 2: Loss 2-1 (Abzan Aristocrats) Game 1 is just a mess, he gets ALL the removal and combos out turn 6. Game 2 I board in OtV, both Pithing Needles, and 2 Nevermores. Suppression field and Runed halos come to the rescue and keep me alive until a Supreme Verdict comes down and wipes the board--I top deck a Starfield and swing in two turns for the win. Game 3 mulled to 5 (sigh), without the Leylines, he eats up my hand with Kozys and a thoughtseize and I never recover.
Round 3: Merfolk Win (2-0) Game one I draw the dream hand, turn two a ghostly prison with Utopia sprawl, suppression field keeps AEther Vial down, and life is good. Game 2 after an initial beating at the hands of a few fish, I'm able turn 4 a supreme verdict, ghostly prison comes down turn 5, sphere of safety turn 6, the win comes a few turns later.
Round 4: B/R Burn (2-0) Leylines in both opening hands, makes short work of the burn player. He does some work with Swiftspear and an Eidolon, but it's not enough. Runed halo shuts down the Eidolon and a well timed prison shuts down the quick agro.
Round 5: mono Blue tron (0-2) We all know how this match up plays out--Tron in to Ugin game one, Tech edge does nothing to slow him down. Game 2 I board in the needles and the grids but don't see either. He trons up an wrecks me with a popped o-stone and wurms.
Round 6: Grixis Delver (2-1) Plays out a lot like the twin match, I mull to 6 and keep an iffy 2 land hand. Delver and Kolaghan's command wreck my face. Game 2 I board in the D-grids and another leyline, neither of which show up, but a turn two suppression feild keeps his fetches from cracking and I'm able to drop a Ghostly Prison and a Siege (dragons), a long game later, Starfield lands and wins. Game 3, Leyline and D-grid in opening hand, Heliod gets there a few turns later.
It was just a small tourny but it was a lot of fun. I landed some easy match ups and some difficult ones, and overall I'm confident our deck can shake things up. Thankfully, I was able to dodge the elf deck, but meeting tron was unfortunate and disheartening. I feel that I got a lot of good luck with opening hands, and there's a lot of details I'm leaving out, but this is just the gist of things after reviewing my videos. There were a lot of moments where things went my way and not the opponents--the Merfolk match up was particularly nice, normally they put up much more of a fight. Combo decks and Tron continue to be a problem, particularly Abzan (I didn't see the Jund decks). I didn't see any bloomtitan decks, although online that has been a 50/50 match up (do I get a nevermore in game 2 and 3 or not). Finishing up strong against the Grixis deck felt good though.
So with the emergence of grizshoalbrand as a potent and legitimate turn 2,3,4 threat it's time we start looking at answers. Now, I'm not of the opinion that this deck is particularly broken. The turn two is real, but so are answers. Traditionally, I would look to two cards in particular: Rest in Peace and Ground Seal both of which were great answers to a graveyard decks of all types. But now, we live in a post Starfield world and weirdly enough we are pseudo-gy decks ourselves. So I'm less inclined to run those two traditional answers. Now, I'm leaning more towards relic of progenitus and Tormod's Crypt and I can see value in both. Part of me thinks that I draw enough cards between my eidolons and monastery siege, and I'm not crazy about exiling my own gy. This side of me says Tormod's is better. But I he other part of me says, get your card early game and don't worry about your own gy--how many starfield targets can we really expect to have in turns 1,2, or 3?
And of course, the cynical part of me says that both of these are only temporary stalls which only prolong the inevitable.
So what is the answer gents, currently I'm running 2 relics, but I'm am as of yet underwhelmed.
I actually liked the card quite a bit, but is is it better than journey to nowhere? Does it set our opponents back late game? These were the questions I grappled with. However, in a post starfield world it be okay. I was looking at it in conjunction with hatching plans just to ensure that was getting some worthwhile mileage out of it. But that seemed too cute.
The eidolon is decent in those respects, better than RoL, but I want to gain the advantage that Curse provides. I've played a bit with this idea within my naya build with war's toll which allows us a greater degree of control not only of our own turn, but also of our opponent's combat if ghostly prison is in play. CoE offers us some protection, but like you say it is 4 mana so we aren't racing it out in front of anything. Additionally, having more than one in the deck seems like a Gamble since having more than one on the field is pointless, unlike something like say...nevermore. If however it does land and stick, ih hoses so many decks including elves.
There hasn't been a drop off in my local meta (about 4 shops) of robots, I was just wondering why it seems like so few of the experts have been running the deck of late.
Coincidentally, needle in my board just got me a win against abzan aristocrats last night. Yay for killing of activated abilities.
P.S. If you're in white suppression field is a card to consider as well, unless you're looking to use activated abilities yourself.
SB 1
Side Option 1
Side Option 2
Or some mixture of the two...or any other ideas.
Here's my bant list if it helps.
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Greater Auramancy
4 Ghostly Prison
2 Sphere of Safety
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Runed Halo
3 Suppression Field
3 Utopia Sprawl
2 Monastery Siege
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Starfield of Nyx
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Copy Enchantment
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Windswept Heath
3 Plains
4 Temple Garden
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Breeding Pool
1 Alchemist's Refuge
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Life from the Loam
1 Gifts Ungiven
Everything is slow in lantern control--painfully and mercilessly slow. However post starfields I actually think it's one of our easier match ups.
I think it's great. I play primarily online so for me, I'm playing new people every game--often players don't know how to deal with it. I mean, if you're a grixis player and you draw a hand with 2 fetches and a basic you're going to keep it. If you're on the draw and opponent drops suppression field turn 2 you're stuck and it's got to be frustrating. Twin players, or any combo that relies on an activated ability, are essentially stopped until they can deal with it. That being said, it's a nonbo with Heliod and with a few of my lands, but I'll happily pay 3 to draw a card with Horizon Canopy, or two to destroy a Celestial colonnade. Heliod's tokens really only are really emerging when Nykthos is in play anyway which likely negates the nonbo--or at least makes it palatable. All that being said, I'll admit there are many cases in which I don't really want it...Elves for example. It does nothing to stop the mana generation that elves can generate. It doesn't do anything against Bloomtitan either. But in these cases it's an easy sideboard target for game 2 and 3. And in decks that run P-walkers or more than a few fetches (mine are really just for fetching around Bloodmoo) I wouldn't recommend them (definitely not in triplicate).
After seeing your list, you run a lot more fetches than I do so I'm not sure if you need one, but i'd definitely consider putting two in the board for the twin match up, or you can run pithing needle. You can probably slot one in your main in the place of Favor of the Mighty (I get why people love that card, but it's not for me) if you really wanted to. I think it's worth a investing some play testing time in. I'm not an expert, but i'm not sure if our deck really needs that many fetches. I'd rather use those fetches in another deck and keep my meta on its toes (and frac. gusts out of sideboards :).
As for your sideboard--I think it's okay, if you're looking for some space, I think celestial purge and Timely Reinforcements are the two to cut. I'm also a big fan of Defense Grid over eyes of the wisent. While I do love 4/4s, it doesn't stop the counter itself so they still get the value. And doesn't make a cryptic command cost 7--SEVEN! That's an expensive counter. Defense grid I think is just a better fit for our decks. I'm not sure you need another Luminarch in board either, i'd slot in something like Open the Vaults just as a fail-safe, or Pithing Needle or suppression field to shut down combos.
There's a lot of great bits of synergy, and cards like copy enchant and loam pull double duty. I didn't realize how great loam was going to be until I started drawing mad cards with Horizon Canopy. The Siege's a great for moving through the deck as well.
2 Heliod, God of the Sun
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
Enchantments
4 Ghostly Prison
1 Copy Enchantment
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Monastery Siege
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Runed Halo
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Sphere of Safety
3 Suppression Field
3 Utopia Sprawl
2 Greater Auramancy
2 Starfield of Nyx
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Plains
4 Temple Garden
1 Island
4 Breeding Pool
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Windswept Heath
Spells
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Life from the Loam
2 Pithing Needle
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
3 Nevermore
2 Curse of Exhaustion
3 Defense Grid
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Open the Vaults
Round 1: Win 2-1 (Twin match up) Twin player gets a natural combo turn 4 in game 1, I board in all three Defense Grids and both pithing needles for games two and three. In game 2 I draw the pithing need and a leyline in my opening hand effectively shutting down the combo and the alternative win via burn. Game three, another leyline. I draw into some good luck and I'm able to drop a defense grid turn 2. From there, the deck is allowed to play out--sigil falls and angels galore.
Round 2: Loss 2-1 (Abzan Aristocrats) Game 1 is just a mess, he gets ALL the removal and combos out turn 6. Game 2 I board in OtV, both Pithing Needles, and 2 Nevermores. Suppression field and Runed halos come to the rescue and keep me alive until a Supreme Verdict comes down and wipes the board--I top deck a Starfield and swing in two turns for the win. Game 3 mulled to 5 (sigh), without the Leylines, he eats up my hand with Kozys and a thoughtseize and I never recover.
Round 3: Merfolk Win (2-0) Game one I draw the dream hand, turn two a ghostly prison with Utopia sprawl, suppression field keeps AEther Vial down, and life is good. Game 2 after an initial beating at the hands of a few fish, I'm able turn 4 a supreme verdict, ghostly prison comes down turn 5, sphere of safety turn 6, the win comes a few turns later.
Round 4: B/R Burn (2-0) Leylines in both opening hands, makes short work of the burn player. He does some work with Swiftspear and an Eidolon, but it's not enough. Runed halo shuts down the Eidolon and a well timed prison shuts down the quick agro.
Round 5: mono Blue tron (0-2) We all know how this match up plays out--Tron in to Ugin game one, Tech edge does nothing to slow him down. Game 2 I board in the needles and the grids but don't see either. He trons up an wrecks me with a popped o-stone and wurms.
Round 6: Grixis Delver (2-1) Plays out a lot like the twin match, I mull to 6 and keep an iffy 2 land hand. Delver and Kolaghan's command wreck my face. Game 2 I board in the D-grids and another leyline, neither of which show up, but a turn two suppression feild keeps his fetches from cracking and I'm able to drop a Ghostly Prison and a Siege (dragons), a long game later, Starfield lands and wins. Game 3, Leyline and D-grid in opening hand, Heliod gets there a few turns later.
It was just a small tourny but it was a lot of fun. I landed some easy match ups and some difficult ones, and overall I'm confident our deck can shake things up. Thankfully, I was able to dodge the elf deck, but meeting tron was unfortunate and disheartening. I feel that I got a lot of good luck with opening hands, and there's a lot of details I'm leaving out, but this is just the gist of things after reviewing my videos. There were a lot of moments where things went my way and not the opponents--the Merfolk match up was particularly nice, normally they put up much more of a fight. Combo decks and Tron continue to be a problem, particularly Abzan (I didn't see the Jund decks). I didn't see any bloomtitan decks, although online that has been a 50/50 match up (do I get a nevermore in game 2 and 3 or not). Finishing up strong against the Grixis deck felt good though.
And of course, the cynical part of me says that both of these are only temporary stalls which only prolong the inevitable.
So what is the answer gents, currently I'm running 2 relics, but I'm am as of yet underwhelmed.