Green has enough control elements as it is, imo. It is meant, like white, to played as a support color in a control deck.
Green on its own controls the graveyard through Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze. The power level of those alone against graveyard based strategies is good enough, imo.
Splash green with other colors, and you get fun stuff like Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, Voice of Resurgence, Kitchen Finks, and so on.
Mono green might not be a good control color, but damn is green versatile when it makes friends! Which I think fits green and whites color philosophy to a tee.
Shadowmage Infiltraitor and Call of the Herd were both $30 around Oddysee's release.
This is true, but it didn't last long. They settled at 10-15, IIRC. And their price was still quite a bit unprecedented for the time. And also remember that unplayable stuff like Kamahl, Pit Fighter started at 5-10 dollars...
Land tax was like .50c to a dollar. Sneak attack was 5 bucks.
I remember the most 'expensive' card someone tried to get me to trade for back in that time was that black creature from Arabian Nights that protects your artifacts, for 40 dollars.
thethirdbardo, I've read all your posts in this thread and I share your ideas completely.
I don't get to play Legacy anymore because nobody can afford it nor would I expect anybody in their right mind to buy-in to the format. And if tomorrow my collection was worth less than a dollar, I would happily accept that reality if it would mean I get people to play with.
All I want is to play the game.
First of all, thank you - it's nice to get reminded every once and a while that someone is actually reading your posts, let alone reading them and agreeing with them.
You reasons for quitting legacy are exactly why I quit legacy too - 10 people at a LGS tourney just didn't do it for me. All my friends being priced out or unwilling to play because of price diminished my interest.
Being unable to simultaneously brew decks in the format and, yknow, afford food kinda sucks.
Plus, I'm a spoiled brat whose nostalgia complex is formed on a vivid memory of the game when I built U/G madness off of mostly packs, when I bought a PLAYSET of Show and Tell for like 10 bucks, and when the most expensive card around for standard was Arcbound Ravager.. which I believe was 15-30 dollars (vendors were all over the place in terms of pricing back then) .. and people were shocked that it even got that high.
Don't assume that just because people own these expensive cards they want to belong to an elitist club that only the rich can play with them in. A lot of us want more people to be able to play.
'A lot' does not mean all. I didn't mean to imply that every single player who owns legacy decks or a lot of staples is a jerk. I'm just going off of personal anecdotal experience.
Quite a few people I've dealt with in real life who are in a similar position to you in terms of cards do NOT have our mindset. In fact, they are quite adamant in their position, which is quite honestly very similar to Reagan's demonization of the "welfare queen."
It is toxic how these people think - that they are smarter are work harder than others. That they more apt at trading than others, and that the people who want cheaper cards to play are 'entitled' masses of proles and unemployed people who have no business being a part of their clique, and CERTAINLY no business beating them in Magic.
I've heard that attitude, or pieces of it, from quite a few people. Even some of the 20-something who have, maybe one deck, and just got invited into the 'club' recently. I was really saddened by a friend I had made at the LGS giving me crap, essentially calling me poor in front of these guys, because I wanted to build a deck but didn't wanna buy the City of Traitors. Saying this, mind you, while in at times in private confidence telling me that he was struggling to make ends meet.
They project their own entitlement/privilege/self esteem issues onto others over something as trivial as a card game.
It isn't a Legacy specific thing either - it's a specific spike mentality that crosses over into every format. Not all of the good, competitive players are like this, but they are often outgunned or unwilling to voice their opinions when overwhelmed by the cliques douchery.
Maro has admitted to reading Salvation a couple of times, but I think he only really likes to comb the speculative/create your own card threads to see what kinds of cards the players are cookin' in their noggins.
Think about how often new cards are actually used in legacy compared to standard/modern? They make very little money off of legacy only players.
Because they do not monetize the demand for Legacy cards. That is the basic point I and many others have been trying to get across.
I'm getting a lot of, "**** you, got mine" vibe from the 'haves' of the thread. With all kinds of twisted logic that is trying to convince me that people buying more cards from WOTC somehow means WOTC will make less money.
The ideology of the bubble that somehow led to this madness of 100 dollar pieces of cardboard is defending itself, I suppose...
Blank sharpie proxies will never fly at a competitive level because it compromises the entire model of selling sealed product and shatters the repore WOTC has been cultivating with the secondary market (Big names and brick and mortar) since the game first came out.
"Let's play magic for real, not brewing or testing, only without the cards."
I could be missing something, but that's what I interpret this position as.
So do I, and together our dual lands made WotC $12 in 1995. And if more people had duals lands, then WotC would make less money.
This literally makes 0 sense. If more people had duals, then they would have either bought them from WOTC in 1995, or down the line in some kind of a reprint set.
Leaving out the counterfeiters for a second for the sake of argument, objectively and unequivocally, WOTC would have more money if more people had duals, because more people would have bought magic sealed product.
@ Tybalt I have dual lands man. OR I should say, I have had them. I sold them, lent one out (MIA), and borrow them / Legacy decks intermittently when I want to play. Actually, upon reading the rest of your post, it's clear that you haven't read a thing I've said and have no idea what my perspective is, since I haven't bought a pack since 2003 and don't play standard.
It's called listening to and being empathetic towards those who don't have staples and want to play legacy/modern. You should try it.
I love how the Legacy players are talking down to those that play the lowly Standard and Kitchen Table. MTG is still around because we buy packs, not because you buy overpriced cards from the secondary market.
WotC just needs to start printing the things people want. If they do more people will buy sealed product.
This. But then again, spikes and their wanna-be protege are pretty much notorious for their myopia...
Attention spikes, "investors", and old timers: Stop trying to swing around having old magic cards like it's some porn stars member. It's pathetic, exponentially so the closer you are to a receding hairline and a mid-life crisis.
A guy with Salt and Pepper hair at my LGS tries this all the time. Brags about 'getting in' early, like MTG is a stock, brags constantly about his collection, talks down to people and insinuates they're poor or unemployed because they don't have X or Y... all in between gasps for breath, as he has gotta be pushing at least 250 lbs.
As for the duals/fetches arguments in this thread:
I wish you guys had been around when getting BASIC SWAMP was difficult. When getting a mountain or an island was challenging. When you sat down and said 'okay, plains are swamps, and mountains are islands' and it was understood that you didn't have enough to play with by themselves.
Sounds funny, but isn't really pertinent to the game nearly 2 decades later... people have no problem getting swamps these days.
If there weren't enough swamps to go around, I'm sure some Chinese scumbag would be willing to step in and do wotc's job for them.
Guy hosts "casual" edh game. Busts out a deck designed around Ashnod's Altar, Academy Rector, Omniscience, Stasis, and Armageddon.
He's saying all kinds of weird **** the entire time, stuff like "dance for me my little puppets!", "I'd *** to that!" in response to people casting stuff...
I was just sticking around for morbid curiosity of his apparently mental illness and not really trying when he went for the Armageddon/Stasis lock
In response, I flash in Sacred Ground off of either leyline or orrery, can't remember.
In response, instead of kicking me, he leaves his own game, stay around in the chat like the ghost at the feast, and watches us play. He literally hurls abuse at me for the entire time, and to be honest I'm feeding the hell out of this troll because I've never seen someone that deranged online before. When I end up losing to some infinite combo, he is ecstatic, "I have been waiting for this moment for so long. I love watching pathetic *explitive*s like you die."
HE then proceeds to stalk me in private messages and in other edh games for an hour, despite getting ignored promptly. He even changes his name repeatedly, hunts EDH games looking for me, and then makes it abundantly clear that it's him by targeting me first, and only me, for the entire game.
Because a Sacred Ground apparently made him lose his mind.
MTG did experience a bit of a Renaissance after the Rav-affinity time period.. (when I quit)
Or so I heard from the people who were still playing then.
I envision WOTC and the game coming out of this one stronger - the winners, in the end, being us, the players.
Black market competition is still competition. If this situation cannot be legally resolved, which this likely cannot, more creative business solutions are in order.
You sure post like your mind has been blown, that's for sure.
Green on its own controls the graveyard through Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze. The power level of those alone against graveyard based strategies is good enough, imo.
Splash green with other colors, and you get fun stuff like Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, Voice of Resurgence, Kitchen Finks, and so on.
Mono green might not be a good control color, but damn is green versatile when it makes friends! Which I think fits green and whites color philosophy to a tee.
Yea I didn't say I was in favor of it, just playing out the thought experiment to its logical conclusion.
This is true, but it didn't last long. They settled at 10-15, IIRC. And their price was still quite a bit unprecedented for the time. And also remember that unplayable stuff like Kamahl, Pit Fighter started at 5-10 dollars...
Land tax was like .50c to a dollar. Sneak attack was 5 bucks.
I remember the most 'expensive' card someone tried to get me to trade for back in that time was that black creature from Arabian Nights that protects your artifacts, for 40 dollars.
First of all, thank you - it's nice to get reminded every once and a while that someone is actually reading your posts, let alone reading them and agreeing with them.
You reasons for quitting legacy are exactly why I quit legacy too - 10 people at a LGS tourney just didn't do it for me. All my friends being priced out or unwilling to play because of price diminished my interest.
Being unable to simultaneously brew decks in the format and, yknow, afford food kinda sucks.
Plus, I'm a spoiled brat whose nostalgia complex is formed on a vivid memory of the game when I built U/G madness off of mostly packs, when I bought a PLAYSET of Show and Tell for like 10 bucks, and when the most expensive card around for standard was Arcbound Ravager.. which I believe was 15-30 dollars (vendors were all over the place in terms of pricing back then) .. and people were shocked that it even got that high.
'A lot' does not mean all. I didn't mean to imply that every single player who owns legacy decks or a lot of staples is a jerk. I'm just going off of personal anecdotal experience.
Quite a few people I've dealt with in real life who are in a similar position to you in terms of cards do NOT have our mindset. In fact, they are quite adamant in their position, which is quite honestly very similar to Reagan's demonization of the "welfare queen."
It is toxic how these people think - that they are smarter are work harder than others. That they more apt at trading than others, and that the people who want cheaper cards to play are 'entitled' masses of proles and unemployed people who have no business being a part of their clique, and CERTAINLY no business beating them in Magic.
I've heard that attitude, or pieces of it, from quite a few people. Even some of the 20-something who have, maybe one deck, and just got invited into the 'club' recently. I was really saddened by a friend I had made at the LGS giving me crap, essentially calling me poor in front of these guys, because I wanted to build a deck but didn't wanna buy the City of Traitors. Saying this, mind you, while in at times in private confidence telling me that he was struggling to make ends meet.
They project their own entitlement/privilege/self esteem issues onto others over something as trivial as a card game.
It isn't a Legacy specific thing either - it's a specific spike mentality that crosses over into every format. Not all of the good, competitive players are like this, but they are often outgunned or unwilling to voice their opinions when overwhelmed by the cliques douchery.
Because they do not monetize the demand for Legacy cards. That is the basic point I and many others have been trying to get across.
I'm getting a lot of, "**** you, got mine" vibe from the 'haves' of the thread. With all kinds of twisted logic that is trying to convince me that people buying more cards from WOTC somehow means WOTC will make less money.
The ideology of the bubble that somehow led to this madness of 100 dollar pieces of cardboard is defending itself, I suppose...
"Let's play magic for real, not brewing or testing, only without the cards."
I could be missing something, but that's what I interpret this position as.
This literally makes 0 sense. If more people had duals, then they would have either bought them from WOTC in 1995, or down the line in some kind of a reprint set.
Leaving out the counterfeiters for a second for the sake of argument, objectively and unequivocally, WOTC would have more money if more people had duals, because more people would have bought magic sealed product.
It's called listening to and being empathetic towards those who don't have staples and want to play legacy/modern. You should try it.
This. But then again, spikes and their wanna-be protege are pretty much notorious for their myopia...
Attention spikes, "investors", and old timers: Stop trying to swing around having old magic cards like it's some porn stars member. It's pathetic, exponentially so the closer you are to a receding hairline and a mid-life crisis.
A guy with Salt and Pepper hair at my LGS tries this all the time. Brags about 'getting in' early, like MTG is a stock, brags constantly about his collection, talks down to people and insinuates they're poor or unemployed because they don't have X or Y... all in between gasps for breath, as he has gotta be pushing at least 250 lbs.
Sounds funny, but isn't really pertinent to the game nearly 2 decades later... people have no problem getting swamps these days.
If there weren't enough swamps to go around, I'm sure some Chinese scumbag would be willing to step in and do wotc's job for them.
Guy hosts "casual" edh game. Busts out a deck designed around Ashnod's Altar, Academy Rector, Omniscience, Stasis, and Armageddon.
He's saying all kinds of weird **** the entire time, stuff like "dance for me my little puppets!", "I'd *** to that!" in response to people casting stuff...
I was just sticking around for morbid curiosity of his apparently mental illness and not really trying when he went for the Armageddon/Stasis lock
In response, I flash in Sacred Ground off of either leyline or orrery, can't remember.
In response, instead of kicking me, he leaves his own game, stay around in the chat like the ghost at the feast, and watches us play. He literally hurls abuse at me for the entire time, and to be honest I'm feeding the hell out of this troll because I've never seen someone that deranged online before. When I end up losing to some infinite combo, he is ecstatic, "I have been waiting for this moment for so long. I love watching pathetic *explitive*s like you die."
HE then proceeds to stalk me in private messages and in other edh games for an hour, despite getting ignored promptly. He even changes his name repeatedly, hunts EDH games looking for me, and then makes it abundantly clear that it's him by targeting me first, and only me, for the entire game.
Because a Sacred Ground apparently made him lose his mind.
Or so I heard from the people who were still playing then.
I envision WOTC and the game coming out of this one stronger - the winners, in the end, being us, the players.
Black market competition is still competition. If this situation cannot be legally resolved, which this likely cannot, more creative business solutions are in order.