Here's my list. Still sticking with the midrange version, never really bought into the tokens version. At this point the reality is that these colors are worse than Jund, that's all there really is to it. There are some advantages over Jund but probably more disadvantages. Either way this has become my pet deck, that's why I'm sticking with it. Deck probably should be running Kolaghan's Command but I can't really find space, I love Crackling Doom too much.
Any reason Tasigur, the Golden Fang isn't seeing more play in this deck? I tried him out when I was playing Cruel Control and he was fantastic. Very flexible, could come down early to help stabilize against aggro or recur card advantage late against midrange.
New primer looks great! One correction though, Aven Mindcensor only hoses opponents, not yourself too. So you don't have to worry about running it with Chord of Calling.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang has been awesome for me so far, I think every deck should be running at least 1. It helps us to stabilize, add pressure, and get a ton of value through his ability over time. I have also been trying out 1 Peer Through Depths and I love it every time I see it. Being able to dig for a timely Cruel Ultimatum, Damnation or counterspell is just what this deck wants.
Deck looks really interesting, but I see the lack of 2-drop creatures. What can we play in this slot outside Bob? Sculler, Pack Rat? Which option is best?
Probably Young Pyromancer or Soulfire Grandmaster with a more burn-type build would be good with Bolt, Helix and Stoke the Flames. Sculler and Rat are okay, but not the best option honestly. Bob is pretty essential for a midrange build like this.
Long time Junk player decided to visit this thread after being crushed on Xmage by a similar list. I wonder about a few cards choices: why 8 discard spells instead of the more usual 6-7? Why so many 4-drop planeswalkers when the deck lacks earlier threats? Why not something like Liliana and Dark Confidant? Why new Sorin over old Sorin?
Not being abrasive, just seems like this deck can be really good in the meta due to a quite favorable BGx matchup, so decided to try and tune the lists a bit. Also, I'm having a hard time identifying this deck's bad matchups. Tron should be somewhat miserable as in BGx, but what are we losing against? I can envision Blood Moon being a problem for us, and not having Abrupt Decay should shave a few %-points vs Twin.
There are a lot of fringe/experimental type builds in this thread; nobody can really agree on which direction to go. Mine is more of the "traditional" build in the vein of BGx and is something I've stuck with for a while.
You're right in that this deck doesn't really have any terrible matchups or singular strategies that takes us out. In this way it is a pretty solid midrange option IMO.
One card that I have been testing lately and has been great for me is Sower of Temptation. It's not that hard to cast with the current mana base and can make for a huge swing in tempo depending on the deck you're facing. Also podding away your opponent's creature after you steal it just feels so good. Some nice synergy with Restoration Angel as well. I recommend trying it out.
Hi all, I was looking around and came upon shaun mclarens modern UWR list and noticed he cut sphinx rev entirely, and seems to have replaced it with just dig through times, pretty interesting I still don't know if we would want to do the equivalent in shaving ultimatum for dig (especially since Ultimatum is my favorite card! ). Just thought i'd share that news. For those interested if u were to go that route the manabase would get much smoother (although imo its def. manageable atm, still something though).
Also I've been playing more and more with the Forbidden Alchemy and after testing more it just seemed really poor to have so many digs in hand with not enough delve fuel so I upped the count of Fa's to 3 and that felt a lot better than just playing with 2. Mana leak is such an annoying card though I kept getting punished because in the lategame it would just be such a dead card... it just feels like mana curves in modern have gotten a lot smaller thanks to things like treasure cruise so in the later parts of the game if they have a dangerous 1-3 mana card it just feels like we cant counter it, same thing with treasure cruise it is so hard to counter that 1 mana spell with mana leak... (dont even get me started with how bad mana leak is vs ramp decks..)
I've had to resort to playing a single copy of Deprive (always despised this card because it just teases you for wanting to play counterspell ) anyway this card has actually been such a good card in my experience. I would recommend others give it a shot I wouldn't play that many but I think this card definitely should be considered because to me it has synergy with dig through time decks. In standard U/B control for instance you just want to dig into hard counter dissolve and hard removal hero's downfall in the later parts of the game, we do have cryptics but these are much more expensive to cast than terminates (which are already a bit expensive compared to path to exile) and most decks only run 3 so its not as reliable to grab with dig. This is why i like deprive in a dig control deck because it lets you dig into a hard counter when your mana is constrained ( in a pinch ). Just sayin' every single time i saw this card it was like seeing a tank of ice cold water after 40 years of dehydration in a desert.
Deprive has always intrigued me but I'm not really sold on it. Early game it seems like it really hinders you, and late game you're in a position where you could afford to cast Counterflux or Dissolve instead.
I started testing X2 Forbidden Alchemy and X3 Dig Through Time and so far it's worked out well. Alchemy is super sweet. Those 2 cards + Snapcaster Mage create a lot of value together. I've also been running X1 Izzet Charm, it's very flexible and also fuels Dig.
this is a list couple of friends brought to a local 50 ppl tournament this july, before the meta shift to UR variants. they didnt do particularly well but not bad neither, something like 3/3 or 4/2 dunno.
4 lingering souls
3 sorin lord of innstrad (now solemn visitor seems better tough)
4 liliana of the veil
3 ajani vengeant
4 bitterblossom (now unplayable i guess)
4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
4 pte
1 slaughter pact
3 toughtseize
3 inquisition of kozilek
2 zelous persecution
24 lands
or something like this, they didnt remember the exact numbers but it was more or less like these. Any toughts? any way to improve this and make it viable without destroying the core of the deck?
-1 thoughtseize
-4 bitterblossom
-2 ajani(love him, but he's a legendary 4 drop)
+1 inquisition of Kozilek
+2 Butcher of the Horde
+2 kitchen finks
+2 Brimaz
Rockergamer06, why do you run only 1 Fetid Heath? It seems like he perfect opening hand has 1 blackcleave cliffs, 1 fetid Heath, and 1 fetch. Also how much does Vault help when Butcher can gain lifelink?
To those of you who run Kor Firewalker, what do you think of auriok champion? It's only a 1/1, but we play a lot of creatures and the pro-black is relevant against BGx decks.
Only 1 Fetid Heath because I wouldn't really want to cut any other land for another one. Also having them come up too often in your hands can sometimes be clunky or awkward. I don't think running 2 would be wrong but I've been fine with 1 so far. Vault of the Archangel has been pretty valuable for me especially in combination with Lingering Souls. Yes we do also have Butcher but this deck wants as much life gain as it can get.
Kor Firewalker is pretty much exclusively for Burn, and resolving it against them turn 2 is almost an automatic win for you. Champion is just a weaker version of this against burn, and the other matchups aren't as relevant right now to warrant weakening the burn matchup.
lilly is awful right now. don't play her md. as far as ajani goes they also often have a token ot swiftspear to kill it without losing a card. its not the worst vs delver but I wouldnt side it in over timely which is insane or kor firewalker if you arent mding them
I don't really understand this mentality. The majority of this deck is pretty bad against the current meta right now with Treasure Cruise. Midrange decks in general running Liliana and Bob are completely outclassed by Ancestral Recall, but I don't think there's a ton we can do at the moment. If we still want to play this deck I think we should stick to our guns and wait for the inevitable ban on Cruise. We shouldn't be changing the entire foundation of the deck. You should just play a different deck for the time being.
vs combo they could have the combo in their hand and then a few extra cards, and then just pitch the useless ones to ur sceptre and proceed to combo off, also sceptre taps u low, making countermagic harder to hold up. In that matchup thoughtseize seems better because it's only 1 mana, can be flashbacked with snapcaster if necessary, and takes the combo piece that matters. vs control decks it seems better. you are stripping their hand for sure and thats pretty good, but creating your own card advantage can be comparable since the first few times they get to choose what to discard. Have you tried out Teferi vs. control? that seems more threatening. Teferi's power level can be tricky to see at first but he does a lot more things than he might seem to at first. I think i'd prefer running that in the sideboard or thoughtseize if you're looking for a card that is good vs both those decks. Also Vendilion clique is amazing for those needs as well since it can take an important piece and add an evasive clock, the clock aspect not so good against control but the first aspect makes up for it since you get a lot of information from their hand.
I like Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir a lot and I have tested him. Maybe I've just been getting unlucky though because he's been pretty underwhelming for me thus far. Most of the time they just let him resolve and then Path to Exile him right away. Maybe I'm not playing him correctly but it seems like you need to wait until way late in the game when you're already at an advantage to try and resolve him. I have found that resolving a Keranos, God of Storms has been much more effective against control. I think I'll try both of them in the sideboard though and see how that works out.
Yes. Extraction says quite clearly "target player".
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Butcher of the Horde
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Path to Exile
2 Crackling Doom
1 Terminate
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Ajani Vengeant
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Fetid Heath
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Thoughtseize
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Hide // Seek
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Pyroclasm
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Outpost Siege
What do you guys think of this list? It's on the extreme end of the toolbox package.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Wall of Roots
3 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Eternal Witness
1 Viscera Seer
1 Cartel Aristocrat
1 Blood Artist
1 Spellskite
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Spike Feeder
4 Collected Company
3 Chord of Calling
2 Abrupt Decay
Probably Young Pyromancer or Soulfire Grandmaster with a more burn-type build would be good with Bolt, Helix and Stoke the Flames. Sculler and Rat are okay, but not the best option honestly. Bob is pretty essential for a midrange build like this.
There are a lot of fringe/experimental type builds in this thread; nobody can really agree on which direction to go. Mine is more of the "traditional" build in the vein of BGx and is something I've stuck with for a while.
4x Marsh Flats
4x Arid Mesa
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Godless Shrine
1x Blood Crypt
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Fetid Heath
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
2x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Tectonic Edge
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
3x Path to Exile
1x Terminate
1x Mardu Charm
Sorcery (10)
3x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
Planeswalker (7)
4x Liliana of the Veil
2x Ajani Vengeant
Creature (8)
4x Dark Confidant
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Butcher of the Horde
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Mirran Crusader
1x Rakdos Charm
2x Rest in Peace
1x Slaughter Games
1x Sowing Salt
2x Stony Silence
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Utter End
1x Thoughtseize
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
You're right in that this deck doesn't really have any terrible matchups or singular strategies that takes us out. In this way it is a pretty solid midrange option IMO.
Dig Through Time is definitely better than Sphinx's Revelation in most cases. I considered not running Cruel Ultimatum as well but I think it's just too powerful to not include at least 1 copy.
Deprive has always intrigued me but I'm not really sold on it. Early game it seems like it really hinders you, and late game you're in a position where you could afford to cast Counterflux or Dissolve instead.
3
Only 1 Fetid Heath because I wouldn't really want to cut any other land for another one. Also having them come up too often in your hands can sometimes be clunky or awkward. I don't think running 2 would be wrong but I've been fine with 1 so far. Vault of the Archangel has been pretty valuable for me especially in combination with Lingering Souls. Yes we do also have Butcher but this deck wants as much life gain as it can get.
Kor Firewalker is pretty much exclusively for Burn, and resolving it against them turn 2 is almost an automatic win for you. Champion is just a weaker version of this against burn, and the other matchups aren't as relevant right now to warrant weakening the burn matchup.
I don't really understand this mentality. The majority of this deck is pretty bad against the current meta right now with Treasure Cruise. Midrange decks in general running Liliana and Bob are completely outclassed by Ancestral Recall, but I don't think there's a ton we can do at the moment. If we still want to play this deck I think we should stick to our guns and wait for the inevitable ban on Cruise. We shouldn't be changing the entire foundation of the deck. You should just play a different deck for the time being.
I like Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir a lot and I have tested him. Maybe I've just been getting unlucky though because he's been pretty underwhelming for me thus far. Most of the time they just let him resolve and then Path to Exile him right away. Maybe I'm not playing him correctly but it seems like you need to wait until way late in the game when you're already at an advantage to try and resolve him. I have found that resolving a Keranos, God of Storms has been much more effective against control. I think I'll try both of them in the sideboard though and see how that works out.