So they just slapped Demon on each card type and put some horns in the art. Nothing about the cards has anything demonic mechanically. Zero downside. Zero additional costs to cast like life or resources. Oh how far magic flavor has fallen.
Demons haven't been required to have downsides or additional costs for a while now and I don't see any reason they should.
That’s the whole point. They used to have some mechanically unique qualities that identified them as demons. Now they’re just angels with black mana and that’s boring.
At the very least, some recent demons require you to pay life or sacrifice a creature to get their abilities.
These have no demonic identity. You could remove that word entirely and the card wouldn’t be any different - you’d never be able to differentiate it from anything by else.
Calm Down. I absolutely love wild demons with crazy drawbacks, but that's not the only correct way to design a demon. Plenty of people want to play demons without committing to an often unpleasant gimmick, just like dragons and angels. Your favorite kind of demon is not the only correct kind, because you're not the only Magic fan in the world.
Seriously, that's like insisting that every hydra has to be a 0/0 with counters and every rebel has to be able to search for a rebel with +1 mana value. Mechanical gimmicks are fun and all, but they're just gimmicks, and R&D shouldn't be ruled by them. We'll see plenty of drawback demons in the future, so just be patient and let other people have fun, too.
Nobody needs to calm down because this is just a discussion. Ya know, one of those things where differing opinions are shared?
I’m also not blocking anyone’s fun by saying the card designs are uninspired and out of flavor with the identity that Magic had built for a creature type. What a ridiculous sentiment.
MTG had an identity in the color pie and creatures and spells used to reflect that. Of course that’s faded into ambiguity within modern design but that doesn’t mean it’s good. I’d argue that making MTG more generic might make it more accessible and simple but that’s not a great thing.
These creatures just happen to be the most recent and blatant examples of how little identity and uniqueness cards have today. It was much cooler when playing a demon meant making sacrifices of some sort to do. It’s much better for the role playing aspect of it and that’s more valuable to me. Of course that’s my opinion - but there’s no reason for me not to share that opinion.
Also, I don’t know if you said it or someone else did - but yes, hydras should have that 0/0 mechanic. It’s what MTG did as a foundation to give a hydra a unique play style and identity. Without that, a hydra is just another green creature and that’s not as much fun. Same concept for demons. If you like demons, then you should enjoy the risk in summoning them. Again, role play - that’s what used to set this game apart.
now, the only identity magic has are the rules governing turns, “mana”, and supposed balance. No wonder there’s such a spotlight on MTG’s identity through it’s power level and balance now. Because everything else that made it unique have been pushed aside.
So they just slapped Demon on each card type and put some horns in the art. Nothing about the cards has anything demonic mechanically. Zero downside. Zero additional costs to cast like life or resources. Oh how far magic flavor has fallen.
Demons haven't been required to have downsides or additional costs for a while now and I don't see any reason they should.
That’s the whole point. They used to have some mechanically unique qualities that identified them as demons. Now they’re just angels with black mana and that’s boring.
At the very least, some recent demons require you to pay life or sacrifice a creature to get their abilities.
These have no demonic identity. You could remove that word entirely and the card wouldn’t be any different - you’d never be able to differentiate it from anything by else.
So they just slapped Demon on each card type and put some horns in the art. Nothing about the cards has anything demonic mechanically. Zero downside. Zero additional costs to cast like life or resources. Oh how far magic flavor has fallen.
I despise that shrine commander. Not for the card itself or it’s abilities, but for the fact that it highlights what I hate about the recent WOTC design with regards to commander.
These are pretty trash it seems. Vampires are just a huge miss across both sets.
I strongly disagree. They managed to make an overly saturated tribe interesting. Too bad the power level is kinda low and they only had one set to do that. 5-6 interesting blood token cards (like bloodvial purveyor, glass-cast heart and arterial alchemy) with a related mardu legend would have spawned a new, interesting way to play vampire.
The planted interesting seeds for blood tokens but limited restrained their designs too much
I'd say that having only 5-6 interesting cards in the mechanic when so many were devoted to that mechanic is a miss. Whether you like the concept itself or not is another issue to me. The execution was a fail.
I mean, personally, I don't even find blood tokens unique or interesting. I just see it as another reskinned and underwhelming clue token. But, if you like the mechanic and still only like a few of the cards then I am not sure vampires don't feel like a miss.
Werewolves feel better across both sets because their mechanic remained constant.
I thinkt hey have just better cards in Crimsow Vow. Howling Moon, Avabruck caretaker, howlback piper, volatile arsonist, hollowhenge overlord...
Midnight Hunt basically just had Tovolar and the "werewolf grave titan", rest was limited filler.
Just look at the number of mythic werewolves. 0 in Midnight Hunt and 2 in Crimson Vow.
Good point as well. Another reason for it to feel odd.
The werewolves/wolves are better in crimson vow than midnight hunt
Crimson Vow is better than Midnight Hunt
I am extremely pleased with the overall result and presence of werewolves and wolves. However, it's very odd to me - I am not sure why you break the set into two separate ones, name them something related to each tribe, and then intermix the cards anyway...
I just don't get it. Why not just take the wolf and werewolf support placed into Vow and move them into Midnight Hunt. Take the vampires from Midnight Hunt and move them into Vow. The way they did it just feels super safe - would've been a lot more creative for Midnight Hunt to be a full on werewolf set (still have spirits and zombies) and Vow to be a full on vampire set. I am sure the decision to break it up in a balanced way like this is all about selling packs and not about indulging in a creative endeavor.
Unfortunately for my friend who is huge into the vampires, the combined sets have left him ultra disappointed in the vampire presence. Frankly, I think they killed the vampire power level by introducing blood tokens in Vow and printing nearly all the vampires to interact with a sub-par mechanic. I feel bad for him.
If they moved all the werewolf and vampire stuff to their respective sets, people who liked vampires would be a little frustrated waiting for Crimson Vow and people who liked werewolves might start to lose interest after Midnight Hunt, and in both sets limited formats you wouldn't have the same options for tribal play.
I think it was the right decision to have all the tribes get significant support in both sets.
I agree - this is what I was trying to convey with my last sentence. That it has less to do with the creativity and more to do with selling the sets. I think you're right that werewolf folks would have focused on MH while Vampire folks focused on VOW and the fans of the other tribes would have benefited from both.
As I said, I don't mind the way it played out because both sets were so close to each other that I didn't have to wait long to get the second batch of powerful werewolf enablers. But, by keeping Blood Tokens out of MH, vampires feel underwhelming in VOW. Werewolves feel better across both sets because their mechanic remained constant. That's not the case for the vampires.
The werewolves/wolves are better in crimson vow than midnight hunt
Crimson Vow is better than Midnight Hunt
I am extremely pleased with the overall result and presence of werewolves and wolves. However, it's very odd to me - I am not sure why you break the set into two separate ones, name them something related to each tribe, and then intermix the cards anyway...
I just don't get it. Why not just take the wolf and werewolf support placed into Vow and move them into Midnight Hunt. Take the vampires from Midnight Hunt and move them into Vow. The way they did it just feels super safe - would've been a lot more creative for Midnight Hunt to be a full on werewolf set (still have spirits and zombies) and Vow to be a full on vampire set. I am sure the decision to break it up in a balanced way like this is all about selling packs and not about indulging in a creative endeavor.
Unfortunately for my friend who is huge into the vampires, the combined sets have left him ultra disappointed in the vampire presence. Frankly, I think they killed the vampire power level by introducing blood tokens in Vow and printing nearly all the vampires to interact with a sub-par mechanic. I feel bad for him.
Nobody needs to calm down because this is just a discussion. Ya know, one of those things where differing opinions are shared?
I’m also not blocking anyone’s fun by saying the card designs are uninspired and out of flavor with the identity that Magic had built for a creature type. What a ridiculous sentiment.
MTG had an identity in the color pie and creatures and spells used to reflect that. Of course that’s faded into ambiguity within modern design but that doesn’t mean it’s good. I’d argue that making MTG more generic might make it more accessible and simple but that’s not a great thing.
These creatures just happen to be the most recent and blatant examples of how little identity and uniqueness cards have today. It was much cooler when playing a demon meant making sacrifices of some sort to do. It’s much better for the role playing aspect of it and that’s more valuable to me. Of course that’s my opinion - but there’s no reason for me not to share that opinion.
Also, I don’t know if you said it or someone else did - but yes, hydras should have that 0/0 mechanic. It’s what MTG did as a foundation to give a hydra a unique play style and identity. Without that, a hydra is just another green creature and that’s not as much fun. Same concept for demons. If you like demons, then you should enjoy the risk in summoning them. Again, role play - that’s what used to set this game apart.
now, the only identity magic has are the rules governing turns, “mana”, and supposed balance. No wonder there’s such a spotlight on MTG’s identity through it’s power level and balance now. Because everything else that made it unique have been pushed aside.
That’s the whole point. They used to have some mechanically unique qualities that identified them as demons. Now they’re just angels with black mana and that’s boring.
At the very least, some recent demons require you to pay life or sacrifice a creature to get their abilities.
These have no demonic identity. You could remove that word entirely and the card wouldn’t be any different - you’d never be able to differentiate it from anything by else.
I'd say that having only 5-6 interesting cards in the mechanic when so many were devoted to that mechanic is a miss. Whether you like the concept itself or not is another issue to me. The execution was a fail.
I mean, personally, I don't even find blood tokens unique or interesting. I just see it as another reskinned and underwhelming clue token. But, if you like the mechanic and still only like a few of the cards then I am not sure vampires don't feel like a miss.
Good point as well. Another reason for it to feel odd.
I agree - this is what I was trying to convey with my last sentence. That it has less to do with the creativity and more to do with selling the sets. I think you're right that werewolf folks would have focused on MH while Vampire folks focused on VOW and the fans of the other tribes would have benefited from both.
As I said, I don't mind the way it played out because both sets were so close to each other that I didn't have to wait long to get the second batch of powerful werewolf enablers. But, by keeping Blood Tokens out of MH, vampires feel underwhelming in VOW. Werewolves feel better across both sets because their mechanic remained constant. That's not the case for the vampires.
I am extremely pleased with the overall result and presence of werewolves and wolves. However, it's very odd to me - I am not sure why you break the set into two separate ones, name them something related to each tribe, and then intermix the cards anyway...
I just don't get it. Why not just take the wolf and werewolf support placed into Vow and move them into Midnight Hunt. Take the vampires from Midnight Hunt and move them into Vow. The way they did it just feels super safe - would've been a lot more creative for Midnight Hunt to be a full on werewolf set (still have spirits and zombies) and Vow to be a full on vampire set. I am sure the decision to break it up in a balanced way like this is all about selling packs and not about indulging in a creative endeavor.
Unfortunately for my friend who is huge into the vampires, the combined sets have left him ultra disappointed in the vampire presence. Frankly, I think they killed the vampire power level by introducing blood tokens in Vow and printing nearly all the vampires to interact with a sub-par mechanic. I feel bad for him.