I'm not sure if you understand that WOTC will NOT reprint those cards. EVER...
What does that have to do with anything I said?
Also, apparently the upper management made the decision to strenghten the list, eventually the bosses will retire or move to other jobs, and WOTC might reverse their decision. Or some counterfeiters realize that it's easier to make fake magic cards than fake money and flood the market with fakes, I'm surprised that it hasn't happened yet as some Asian sellers sell even counterfeit transistors and ICs on eBay..
I've seen hundred 1 month ago, 6 months ago, 1 year ago and I assume now that I will see hundreds in 1 month, 6 months and 1 year from now...
I'm not sure if you understand the concept of supply and demand. If prices are rising to prohibitively high levels, it means that there aren't enough of those cards, and they should be reprinted.
@mods: thanks for merging the thread (again!)...It seems we have a weekly "I want the reserved list gone, because I am entitled to ABUR duals"-thread.
C'mon people! It's not going away and it's not the fault of the evil collectors. It's because Hasbro wants to push other things (Modern / MTGO-Legacy where they can "print" whatever they want)...
Get used to it. Instead of "foiling out your super-deck" or "hunt down that exotic japanese/Russian/German/Korean I-don't-know-what" save the money, buy a (played?) regular one and buy a (played?) dual...One dual at the time. It's REALLY not so difficult.
That's what EVERYBODY had to do...
That's not really a solution, as if everybody starts to do that, prices of duals will skyrocket even higher than they are now.
It's not about feeling entitled or anything, (reasonable) reprints are the only real solution. But apparently Wizards and Hasbro like their retarded list as it helps to bring $$$ from Standard.
Unless I read it wrong, doesn't a card being on the list also mean that you can't make a functionally equal card [or even, one that is "too close" [to throw in arbitrary terminology] to the card on the list ?
IF so, isn't that, by definition, restricting the design?
If it's just close to a reserved card, it's fair game. So they could print snow duals or Tabernacle that says that the creature can't be regenerated (totally irrelevant most of the time as you'd just pay the upkeep).
Reprinting eternal format staples. I'd probably crack RTR packs if I was more interested in Modern, now I'll probably just buy singles when they rotate out from Standard.
I understand what you're saying, but printing a card that allows an aggressive deck to overextend and then STILL hard-counter would result in more people doing exactly that, which is in the opposite direction from where Wizards is trying to take the game.
Uncounterable removal cycle from RTR is probably going to make that much safer. Also, it still kind of sucks against fair decks. Even in Legacy it's usually a bad idea to not side it out against fair decks. I don't know if it would be maindecked in Modern unless there's lots of combo.
I think that's a sound argument, but if that were truly the case, why is Mental Misstep still banned? It's essentially a very narrow application of FoW, right?
Mental Misstep isn't card disadvantage, that makes a pretty big difference. Especially when the meta revolves around cheap spells.
So why don't they just reprint the original duals instead of the shock lands and support the older eternal formats? Why create Modern? Simply put, they don't print cards at that power-level anymore. Those cards are way over the curve for the standard environment and even for Modern. They can print Modern relevant cards in standard perpetually that people have to go out and buy from them. Not so with Legacy, once the market is sated for the current staples, where would they go from there? They can't reprint the same cards over and over and expect the market to remain. They generally can't print Legacy-level cards in standard. It's a dead-end. Modern keeps people opening new packs and if that ever changes, they'll abandon Modern too.
I don't think that everybody would start to play Legacy if card prices were similar to what they are in Modern currently. Standard, Modern and Legacy are different formats, and Standard and Modern are probably easier for new players to enter also otherwise than money-wise. From what I have heard, in Modern you don't have to have as tuned decks as in Legacy to do well, I think that Legacy tends to attract somewhat more Spikish people than the other formats. While obviously there are more people who would like to play it than there are playsets of duals, I still don't think it's a format that everybody would prefer to play instead of Standard or Modern.
If I had absolute control over it, I'd abolish the reserved list and have a paper Master's Edition for 20th anniversary of the game. Other than that, I think they are doing fine.
As for saving up and getting into legacy over a long period of time, most MTG players lack the patience to follow through with that plan.
Also, everybody can't do that, as that would just make the card prices go even higher. It's not like the supply is increasing if the reserved list isn't abolished.
2. I ask again...500000 cards available...How many more flipping cards do you need? Each Judge foil has around 3000 copies (more or less)...around 10K FTV....Put them in a regular set? A limited print run doesn't do ANYTHING...The collectors and players will grab everything new and you gained NOTHING (foil, black bordered Dual...hell, I'd want a playset of each and I have more than enough duals)...Give every player a playset? Sure they'll be worthless but they would destroy the game completely (see my post above)
So printing a paper Master's Edition would destroy the game? Printing duals as rares in such a set would probably lower their value to $20-$30, and after that they would probably start to rise again in value. Of course, nobody is suggesting to print them as commons or anything like that, but to make a reprint to make their price more reasonable.
Standard and casual players are the HUGE junk of buyers of new product. If WOTC produced a product far superior to everything in the not so recent (up to 10 years) past and future this HUGE junk would twindle to a fraction of its former glory.
People who complain about power creep this is the mother of power creeps...
Modern is EXACTLY what WOTC lacked...An eternal format where EVERY card could be reprinted...
They could also have abolished the reserved list, then Legacy would be an eternal format where they can reprint everything, that's what I meant.
Yes they would, but they would lose money in the long run. Once you have the cards you need in Legacy/Vintage you only need a few new cards per year tops to stay current. Once they have cashed in on reprinting the 200 or so cards that people need to break into those formats, they have essentially lost the people who switch to those formats as paying customers. It is much better for them to keep people playing standard where they have to keep buying significant amounts of current product year after year to keep playing.
On the other hand, if those people don't like standard, it's possible that instead of continuing to play it, they just quit Magic entirely if eternal formats are too expensive. Also, if they want people to play Standard, it doesn't make sense for them to create Modern and reprint Shock Duals.
So you guys think since the price is too high for you WOTC should print a new set of duals?
Things don't work like that I am afraid (thank god for that!).
I tell what could work for you guys:
Instead of playing Standard and blowing hundreds of Dollars on cards that will be nearly worthless in 2 years time, save the money and buy some Legacy staples...Not everything at once. Slowly but surely....This is how everybody does it. You think I bought everything at once? I had years to build the collection I currently have.
You want to play Legacy? Pick a deck that you could build with your current collection but had to buy some cards (Goblins for example)...and then buy those cards over time...slowly (1 Wasteland / 1 Port at a time...maybe a played one to start with and not the foil or foreign NM version...).
I am certain that that within a year of doing this you can play Legacy with the deck you want.
I really don't see the problem because it's not the availability of cards (I find hundreds of duals/FOWs/Ports etc. online at the moment) but the price and until that doesn't change it isn't really a problem.
@Joku: Functional reprints (even if allowed) would only increase the problem...Instead of 4 Underground seas I could use 8 (4 original and 4 Snow ones)....
That's actually what I have been doing, I don't play Standard, and only occasionally play limited. Even at current prices it's probably going to be cheaper than playing Standard would be after a couple of rotations, but still, pieces of cardboard shouldn't be that expensive unless they are a strictly collectors item (like beta duals, etc), and the number of duals sets a hard limit on how many people can play older formats. The price of the cards reflects their availability. Sure, there are a lot of duals on sale on internet, but there are more people who want them, and as such their price is quite high.
Also, I don't think it would be an issue that it would be possible to play 4 original duals and 4 snow duals, as what deck would want so many duals? three-color decks simply don't have the space with fetches around, and two-color decks probably want some basics for resiliency against Wasteland. Snow duals wouldn't be a strictly functional reprint either, as producing snow mana is a different ability from just producing normal mana, so they would be allowed by the letter of the reserved list.
I don't think reprinting would cause the old duals to lose value. oh the new ones will prob cost between 40-80 dollars, but collectors would still want the original ABRU Lands and they would be still willing to pay (maybe 100 dollars lesss or so). If I was a collector I would want the original, not the new ones. I actually sometimes buy older versions of singles for this purpose, cause they have more prestige.
The example you brought up of cards going down from 80/100/200 to 5 overnight applies only in those years, because the cards were still new. Those were the only ones.
But 20 yrs later? The old cards will still retain their value, as they have prestige. I understand why the collectors are fearful, but I think its leftover from those days.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the original Rav duals went up now.
Actually the original shock duals have fallen a lot in price, but they are much more recent printing and there's a lot more of them. Plus they are both in new border.
Really, either duals should be removed from the list or Wizards should print snow duals or something else that will be close enough to originals. They are so universally needed that more people should have access to them without spending a ton of cash. On the other hand, most of the other stuff on the list is probably fine to leave there to keep collectors happy, it's not like many decks use The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale or other niche cards.
What does that have to do with anything I said?
Also, apparently the upper management made the decision to strenghten the list, eventually the bosses will retire or move to other jobs, and WOTC might reverse their decision. Or some counterfeiters realize that it's easier to make fake magic cards than fake money and flood the market with fakes, I'm surprised that it hasn't happened yet as some Asian sellers sell even counterfeit transistors and ICs on eBay..
I'm not sure if you understand the concept of supply and demand. If prices are rising to prohibitively high levels, it means that there aren't enough of those cards, and they should be reprinted.
That's not really a solution, as if everybody starts to do that, prices of duals will skyrocket even higher than they are now.
It's not about feeling entitled or anything, (reasonable) reprints are the only real solution. But apparently Wizards and Hasbro like their retarded list as it helps to bring $$$ from Standard.
If it's just close to a reserved card, it's fair game. So they could print snow duals or Tabernacle that says that the creature can't be regenerated (totally irrelevant most of the time as you'd just pay the upkeep).
Uncounterable removal cycle from RTR is probably going to make that much safer. Also, it still kind of sucks against fair decks. Even in Legacy it's usually a bad idea to not side it out against fair decks. I don't know if it would be maindecked in Modern unless there's lots of combo.
Mental Misstep isn't card disadvantage, that makes a pretty big difference. Especially when the meta revolves around cheap spells.
I don't think that everybody would start to play Legacy if card prices were similar to what they are in Modern currently. Standard, Modern and Legacy are different formats, and Standard and Modern are probably easier for new players to enter also otherwise than money-wise. From what I have heard, in Modern you don't have to have as tuned decks as in Legacy to do well, I think that Legacy tends to attract somewhat more Spikish people than the other formats. While obviously there are more people who would like to play it than there are playsets of duals, I still don't think it's a format that everybody would prefer to play instead of Standard or Modern.
Also, everybody can't do that, as that would just make the card prices go even higher. It's not like the supply is increasing if the reserved list isn't abolished.
His point was that you can buy either of them easily if you have the money.
So printing a paper Master's Edition would destroy the game? Printing duals as rares in such a set would probably lower their value to $20-$30, and after that they would probably start to rise again in value. Of course, nobody is suggesting to print them as commons or anything like that, but to make a reprint to make their price more reasonable.
They could also have abolished the reserved list, then Legacy would be an eternal format where they can reprint everything, that's what I meant.
On the other hand, if those people don't like standard, it's possible that instead of continuing to play it, they just quit Magic entirely if eternal formats are too expensive. Also, if they want people to play Standard, it doesn't make sense for them to create Modern and reprint Shock Duals.
That's actually what I have been doing, I don't play Standard, and only occasionally play limited. Even at current prices it's probably going to be cheaper than playing Standard would be after a couple of rotations, but still, pieces of cardboard shouldn't be that expensive unless they are a strictly collectors item (like beta duals, etc), and the number of duals sets a hard limit on how many people can play older formats. The price of the cards reflects their availability. Sure, there are a lot of duals on sale on internet, but there are more people who want them, and as such their price is quite high.
Also, I don't think it would be an issue that it would be possible to play 4 original duals and 4 snow duals, as what deck would want so many duals? three-color decks simply don't have the space with fetches around, and two-color decks probably want some basics for resiliency against Wasteland. Snow duals wouldn't be a strictly functional reprint either, as producing snow mana is a different ability from just producing normal mana, so they would be allowed by the letter of the reserved list.
Actually the original shock duals have fallen a lot in price, but they are much more recent printing and there's a lot more of them. Plus they are both in new border.