Does nobody think that Stensia Masquerade is a great card for the Vampire Tribe?
Currently eyeballing Vampires, it seems that you can guarantee a mana base of primarily black or red, and top off with mixed colors, specifically Oliva>Bloodhall and Stensia Masquerade.
Red gives madness and speedy offense
Black gives more stability and longevity
Splashing gives the top end, unless you go with Kalitas as your 4 cmc and ignore the multicolored cards.
Red has madness burn spells
Black has good non madness specific spells. (Ultimate Price and such)
I can force hasty Bloodhall on turn 4 with a couple lines of play, though it definitely is an all in strategy, it can definitely hit like a truck on turn 4 due to Stromkirk Condemed pumping the board and Olivia/bloodsworn guaranteeing haste for Bloodhall on that turn.
Edit: if you go
T1
Land, one drop creature
T2
Land, Stromkirk Condemned
T3
Land, Olivia or Olivia's Bloodsworn
T4
...... you have three cards, you want one to be Bloodhall Priest
You madness Bloodhall to pump the board, you discard the second card for olivia to give +1/+1 and haste
You discard the last card to pump the board again
1/1 becomes a 3/3
Stromkirk becomes a 4/4
Olivia becomes a 5/5 flier
Bloodhall becomes a 6/6 with haste and shocks on attack
exactly 20? I think, assuming you didn't attack already.
Not fast enough. does nothing on its own. clogs a 3 drop slot. black vamps is about flying and evasion, and typically doesnt need first strike to push damage. red vamps is all about pushing face damage as fast as possible and cant afford to run a parasitic card.
I think you're on to something here, Red Shadows... Though you could replace Bloodmad Vampire with Stromkirk Occultist. remember how some RDWs ran Abbot of Keral Keep? Occultist would be your Abbot.
Yep. I'm aware of Occultist, but i think its bad here. It's an absolutely dead draw on 11 cards in the deck. Strength, Youths, and Distemper are all unplayable if exiled by Occultist.
Yes it helps dig, but only AFTER it deals combat damage, which gimps our combat tricks. Youths costs 5 via the exile cost, and that's never going to be realisitcally effective post combat.
At this point, i think the deck is best to be split onto monocolor and splash decks.
Mono red and mono black have more than enough cards to be viable on their own, especially red. mono red and Black splash red is likely the best for madness.dec.
At this point, i think the deck is almost more RDW than madness, but it utilizes madness so much that i think it's still part of the madness archtype.
I think Stromkirk Occultist and Bloodmad Vampire are interchangable in decks without distsmper and strength.But in my list I refuse to value Occultis as high as Bloodmad due the lower base power, and the draw form being unable to trigger madness on. If you draw into a Distemper or Strength, its a dead draw and you're down a very valuble card.
The only vampire deck i can see being viable is mono red now. Both RB and B lack focus. There are no vampire Lords in the format in black, and none of the black vampires are fantastic outside of the 2 drop flip.
But in mono red, there's enough madness suport with highly agressive bodies, coupled with burn and abnormal forms of removal evasion that the deck seems effecient.
The aet added Distemper the Blood, Furyblade Vampire, and Incindiary Flow, all of which are really solid cards. Otherworldly Outburst is also an absolutely amazing card.
But distemper isnt good' bs its not. Vamp bodies tend to have weak butts and strong powers. They loose trades and do no damage. +0/+2 and trample would be playable with its cost imho. The extra power is icing.
Using 4x Skin Invader and 4x Otherworldly Outburst let us trade incredibly effeciently when we need to, and then we have Fiery Temper, Incidiary Flow, and potentially more burn spells to clear the ground.
Skin invader and outburst also allow us to directly dodge boardwipes or removal in a control matchup.
Most of the time, I've just been using the sideboard for conditional removal. I think our mainboard core is pretty much set, dont really need alternative damage sources. Outside of the 2 creatures, it's 4 K commands for utility if needed, 3 ultimate prices to deal with kalitas, and then from there, meta based removal spells.
That's also why I'm considering Adrenaline to pair with Youths to potentially make playing it more worthwhile. Adrenaline may end up making it main board over Strength if Trample ends up being as relevant as it is in my head.
I like it, but i think its inconsistent. I think the Strength is more valuable buy in large due to our evasion essentially turning it into a burn spell+scry for added consistency and pressure. The Rush just really enables Youths and that's it, less damage, less utility. I think cutting youths is better most of the time.
Guys, we already have a thread on this. Decks have been built. testing has been done. Please look through the catalog before you post. As I'm trying to push aggro, I really want to see everything in one place.
Are you referring to the R/B Maddness Aggro/Midrange thread? If so, there is one key difference between the threads. The other thread focuses on all flavors of R/B Madness decks while this thread is tribal focused. Also, both were posted one the same date almost a month ago.
B/R aggro/midrange covers this entire subject, regardless of tribal focus.
I'm going to give this list some testing, I'm not sure it is better than Youths, which offers a lot of playing flexibility. I'm going to try out a Youths/Rush of Adrenaline package in the side to go with Plague, Axe, and Duress. Not sure on the quantity of each yet.
This is a list i'm interested in testing. tell us how it goes. Youths seem more like filler cards than legitimate threats, so I want to see what viably replaces them. I'm currently running a 2 youths 1 drana mainboard spread, with a drana and castigator in side to replace the youths in the event I want them gone.
Guys, we already have a thread on this. Decks have been built. testing has been done. Please look through the catalog before you post. As I'm trying to push aggro, I really want to see everything in one place.
I've started running 20 lands and it hasn't been a problem for me. I found out that i tended to flood when i ran 21 so i cut down to 20.
I've also been testing 2 Avaricious Dragon in the main and it is doing extremely well for me, it gives us the draw power to finish the games and the discard at the end step really helps to cast madness cards without a Ravenous or Heir. Might add 1 more or at least 2 Tormenting Voice just for the draw since we burn through our hand fast.
Interesting match i had the other day, i kept a one land hand (Swamp) with 3 Tempers and 3 Alms on the draw. Did not manage to get any lands till turn 3 (got a mountain) but it was fun casting Alms for madness hehe :3
Any thoughts on Infinite Obliteration on the side for Bant CoCo? Mainly to hit Reflector Mage and Bounding Krasis. Trangress the Mind to hit CoCo too.
I like the dragon, it's a really powerful card that synergizes with our deck fantastically. Thinking on changing my 3-4 spread to add 2 drana and a dragon, chopping the youths. It seems like it might be more consistantly powerful, but not as agressive as youths. I need to test more, it's been a while. If we can attack with youths t3 when we draw it and either make a soid trade or chunk them for 4, it's worth running, but if that's not reliable, dropping them for some split of drana, olivia, and dragon is best.
THOUGHTS ON OLVIA. She's bad on her own without a lot of support, and you can't be running her with a heavy discard engine, as she really eats that up. If I wanted to run Oli mainboard, here's the changes I'd make. -3 Youths, -2 bloodseeker, +2 asylum visitor, +2 olivia, +1 av dragon, and I'd find a way to slot in a couple gorgers as well for added synergy. Over time, this spread may be better, as it it's a more midgame focused build. If the meta shifts drastically with the next set, you might see me running something like this.
On infinite obliteration. I think that's your call. At 3 mana, it's really pricey, and I'm not sure how bad that hurts our curve or hurts them with the effect. turn 3 is our most important turn of the game, and I'm not really sure we can be using it for creature removal. It's powerful, and does its job, but it kills our agression for a turn, and against coco, i'm not sure if that really works. We win that matchup by going balls to the walls suicide squad with our dudes, and then burning their face once they stabilize board.
Untested. But I dislike how poor these Madness decks are to spot removal. I'm going to give this a go at Tuesday standard to see what's up.
Raptors in the yard are better than Raptors in hand, so with Youths, Temper, and Raptors to pitch, I think there should be enough fodder. You can start chaining every drawn raptor with Olivia as well, since you can pitch to them coming back.
The variant I'm pushing doesn't care about spot removal, we push 8 damage through with evasive creatures and burn for game. I like your deck in concept, trying for a bit of graveyard raptor synergy, but I'm not sure how practical it is. 25 land in a deck that curves out at 3, with a single 4 drop, seems really meh as well. Have you thought about using Olivia as a reanimator enabler? that seems to be the direction that Olivia jund wants to go into.
From my testing this is right. The burn package is the reason to play this deck. I do think the 3 drop creature slot is our weakest slot, though I'm thinking about dropping a land and running a 2/2 split of Youths/Drana.
I'm not sure how 20 lands will treat us, but it likely won't hurt. I like the idea. I run 21 for comfort, as I really like having 3 mana for turn 3 explosiveness, but i think your choice is just as good. Playtest it and let us know what you think on it
4 Falkenrath Gorger
4 Furyblade Vampire
4 Ravenous Bloodseeker
4 Bloodmad Vampire
4 Incorragable Youths
4 Fiery Temper
4 Distemper of the Blood
3 Titan's Strength
20 Mountain
1 Geier Reich Sanatorium
4 Skin Invasion
3 Otherworldly Outburst
8 Meta checks
4 Vampire Cutthroat
4 Stromkirk Condemned
4 Asylum Visitor
3 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
3 Ultimate Price
2 Read the Bones
3 Collective Brutality
4 Alms of the Vein
4 Gisa's Bidding
Synergy aggro silliness. I doubt it's strongly viable to be perfectly honest, but it looks very fun to play.
Pretty much, the way I'm seeing madness right now is as RDW, mono back aggro, mono black midrange, and various splashes of these decks.
Here's a mono black midrange build
4 Asylum Visitor
3 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
2 Liliana, Heretical Healer
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Voldaren Pariah
3 Ultimate Price
4 Collective Brutality
3 Read the Bones
2 Infinite Obliteration
4 Gisa's Bidding
RB Aggro
4 Vampire Cutthroat
4 Furyblade Vampire
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Ravenous Bloodseeker
4 Incorrigible Youths
4 Alms of the Vein
4 Gisa's Bidding
3 Distemper of the Blood
I'm going to test all 4 of the lists i've posted on this page over the next week or so and report back with matchups
Not fast enough. does nothing on its own. clogs a 3 drop slot. black vamps is about flying and evasion, and typically doesnt need first strike to push damage. red vamps is all about pushing face damage as fast as possible and cant afford to run a parasitic card.
Yep. I'm aware of Occultist, but i think its bad here. It's an absolutely dead draw on 11 cards in the deck. Strength, Youths, and Distemper are all unplayable if exiled by Occultist.
Yes it helps dig, but only AFTER it deals combat damage, which gimps our combat tricks. Youths costs 5 via the exile cost, and that's never going to be realisitcally effective post combat.
4 Falkenrath Gorger
4 Furyblade Vampire
4 Ravenous Bloodseeker
4 Bloodmad Vampire
4 Incorragable Youths
4 Incindiary Flow
4 Distemper the Blood
3 Titan's Strength
Side:
3 Otherworldly Outburst
4 Skin Invasion
8 burn/utility
Considering Lighting Berserker or the 1drop haste werewolf over Neonate, but the neonate enables madness and is very evasive.
Mono red and mono black have more than enough cards to be viable on their own, especially red. mono red and Black splash red is likely the best for madness.dec.
4 Falkenrath Gorger
4 Furyblade Vampire
4 Ravenous Bloodseeker
4 Bloodmad Vampire
4 Incorrigible Youths
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Distemper of the Blood
3 Titan's Strength
Side:
3 Otherworldly Outburst
4 Skin Invasion
8 utility/burn
At this point, i think the deck is almost more RDW than madness, but it utilizes madness so much that i think it's still part of the madness archtype.
I think Stromkirk Occultist and Bloodmad Vampire are interchangable in decks without distsmper and strength.But in my list I refuse to value Occultis as high as Bloodmad due the lower base power, and the draw form being unable to trigger madness on. If you draw into a Distemper or Strength, its a dead draw and you're down a very valuble card.
But in mono red, there's enough madness suport with highly agressive bodies, coupled with burn and abnormal forms of removal evasion that the deck seems effecient.
The aet added Distemper the Blood, Furyblade Vampire, and Incindiary Flow, all of which are really solid cards. Otherworldly Outburst is also an absolutely amazing card.
But distemper isnt good' bs its not. Vamp bodies tend to have weak butts and strong powers. They loose trades and do no damage. +0/+2 and trample would be playable with its cost imho. The extra power is icing.
Using 4x Skin Invader and 4x Otherworldly Outburst let us trade incredibly effeciently when we need to, and then we have Fiery Temper, Incidiary Flow, and potentially more burn spells to clear the ground.
Skin invader and outburst also allow us to directly dodge boardwipes or removal in a control matchup.
4 Falkenrath Gorger
4 Furyblade Vampire
4 Ravenous Bloodseeker
4 Bloodmad Vampire
4 Incorragable Youths
4 Incindiary Flow
4 Distemper the Blood
3 Otherworldly Outburst
Side:
1 Otherworldly Outburst
4 Skin Invasion
10 utility/burn
Very even curve, agressive, wins trades through removal and outburst.
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Furyblade Vampire
4 Ravenous Bloodseeker
4 Bloodmad Vampire
4 Incourageable Youths
4 Incindiary Flow
4 Distemper the Blood
3 Exquisite Firecraft
I say go vampires because they have the strongest and most synergystic 2 drops in the format. T3 will always be explosive.
I like it, but i think its inconsistent. I think the Strength is more valuable buy in large due to our evasion essentially turning it into a burn spell+scry for added consistency and pressure. The Rush just really enables Youths and that's it, less damage, less utility. I think cutting youths is better most of the time.
B/R aggro/midrange covers this entire subject, regardless of tribal focus.
This is a list i'm interested in testing. tell us how it goes. Youths seem more like filler cards than legitimate threats, so I want to see what viably replaces them. I'm currently running a 2 youths 1 drana mainboard spread, with a drana and castigator in side to replace the youths in the event I want them gone.
I like the dragon, it's a really powerful card that synergizes with our deck fantastically. Thinking on changing my 3-4 spread to add 2 drana and a dragon, chopping the youths. It seems like it might be more consistantly powerful, but not as agressive as youths. I need to test more, it's been a while. If we can attack with youths t3 when we draw it and either make a soid trade or chunk them for 4, it's worth running, but if that's not reliable, dropping them for some split of drana, olivia, and dragon is best.
THOUGHTS ON OLVIA. She's bad on her own without a lot of support, and you can't be running her with a heavy discard engine, as she really eats that up. If I wanted to run Oli mainboard, here's the changes I'd make. -3 Youths, -2 bloodseeker, +2 asylum visitor, +2 olivia, +1 av dragon, and I'd find a way to slot in a couple gorgers as well for added synergy. Over time, this spread may be better, as it it's a more midgame focused build. If the meta shifts drastically with the next set, you might see me running something like this.
On infinite obliteration. I think that's your call. At 3 mana, it's really pricey, and I'm not sure how bad that hurts our curve or hurts them with the effect. turn 3 is our most important turn of the game, and I'm not really sure we can be using it for creature removal. It's powerful, and does its job, but it kills our agression for a turn, and against coco, i'm not sure if that really works. We win that matchup by going balls to the walls suicide squad with our dudes, and then burning their face once they stabilize board.
The variant I'm pushing doesn't care about spot removal, we push 8 damage through with evasive creatures and burn for game. I like your deck in concept, trying for a bit of graveyard raptor synergy, but I'm not sure how practical it is. 25 land in a deck that curves out at 3, with a single 4 drop, seems really meh as well. Have you thought about using Olivia as a reanimator enabler? that seems to be the direction that Olivia jund wants to go into.
I'm not sure how 20 lands will treat us, but it likely won't hurt. I like the idea. I run 21 for comfort, as I really like having 3 mana for turn 3 explosiveness, but i think your choice is just as good. Playtest it and let us know what you think on it