Quote from i-never-smileI noticed the 62 cards, too. I'm about to play it on MWS, so I made the following cuts:
Turn/Burn (frankly, this card sucks)
Mana Leak (just because it seems less imporant than any of the other MD counters and countermagic appeared to be the only thing I could cut)
Also, Increasing Ambition--I assume you meant the Fork, not the DT.
Let's see how this thing runs in action....
Both are correct, though it's 61 cards: I made a typo. I'd be careful about dissing Turn/Burn, though. It's a lot more powerful than it looks, especially in my list, which is more conservative with its answers than yours.
Could you pm me or comment here about your matches?
You are right about one thing: the decks have to be much more accurately tuned to win in a format that powerful. That's true in Legacy too, actually. As the size of the card pool increases, the overall card power increases, and therefore the mana curves get lower, meaning that there is less room for error in your decklists. I view that as a good thing. A good thing that is mitigated by the existence of Skullclamp in the format I play, but the difference isn't all that relevant.
Oh, and by the way, you can't have tested that shell if you tried it with Skullclamp Banned. The entire point of that shell is to disrupt in the first couple turns of the game, then reliably get out clamp and use it to dig into more disruption, eventually assembling the combo and killing you with bears. Without the clamp, it wouldn't work nearly as well, in which case the deck I could crush combo with would be Miracles or RUG Delver, both of which are quite strong without clamp and have excellent combo matchups. That or perhaps a more dedicated Thopter/Depths combo deck, scrapping the fancy stuff and dropping the curve to be more like the dominant lists in extended. It wouldn't be too hard.
Oh, and Steb: You've got some pretty good lists there, especially for just goldfishing. We found that cutting the Chrome Moxen from storm is usually right, and that you should use those slots for Disruption, in some mix of Missteps, Repeals, Bolts, and Punishing Fires. I don't know if you're interested, but I thought you should know that your test build is a pretty good proxy for what we built as well.
I'm currently on what we call "the broken deck". It's basically just all the most broken cards off the banned list thrown together. This is what I remember of the shell:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Vampire Hexmage
2 Trinket Mage
2 Skullclamp
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chrome Mox
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thopter Foundry
2 Counterbalance
4 Dark Depths
Then a suite of answers and about 18 lands. You probably want to include 1 Jace there. If you're really interested, I can keep digging around, and I'm sure I can find more. Also, if you're wondering about the lack of Batterskull, I moved it to the side. Jitte is usually better in situations where Batterskull is good.
Again, though, I've never claimed to be infallible, and it's not like we're team CFB over here. How about you send me your turn-2 dredge deck that can beat Rest in Piece out of Miracles? Post it here, PM it to me, doesn't really matter. Actually, send me any of your combofest lists you have. If you're right about their goldfish consistency, I'll crush my teammates next wednesday. It's a $5 buy-in, so I'll make a fair bit of cash that way.
Maybe if you're just goldfishing you could make a combo deck that fast. Matter of fact, you probably could. I never tried. We figured out how bad of an idea a combo deck like that was in the format pretty early on. They get crushed by the decks playing Missteps, Inquisitions, Abrupt Decays, Counterbalances, Chalices, and the rest of the whole pack of disruption.
Seriously, what lists could goldfish turn 1-2? I want to see what you're talking about.
How many rounds have you played? What decks? Against which? Did you figure out the optimal Stoneforge package, or are your lists still running Batterskull maindeck? Which variant of Storm is better in your opinion, with or without Punishing Fire? Did you ever get around to testing variants of the Rock? We tried it out, but the zoo matchup always felt a little awkward. That reminds me. About Zoo, Unified Will or Might of Alara? We went for Might in the end, but I'd love to hear a second opinion.
You claim it's a combo fest. I guess you could call it that. Certainly you need an awful lot of synergy to win, and goodstuff style builds aren't gonna get you all that far. But unless Stoneforge Mystic/Dark Confidant/Skullclamp is a combo in your mind, then you need to try it again.
Stephen Menendian found the same thing when he tried vintage with no restricted list a few years back. Broken interactions, while broken, all have fundamentally similar strategies, in that they're highly modular. That modularity comes at the price of things like: low cmc band, heavy reliance on additional resources such as the graveyard, and big turns in which they spend a lot of mana and cards. To put that in simpler terms, as the format grows stronger, the hate cards and answers become more efficient. This effect is even amplified here by the presence of powerful answers that are even on the banned list: Mental Misstep, Sensei's Divining Top to enable Counterbalance, and so on. Is combo powerful in a format with everything but clamp unbanned? Sure. It's incredibly powerful. But so is everything else. If you'd like to see it for yourself, build an ascension list on cockatrice and see how you do against Countertop Miracles with Jace, Countertop itself, and 4 mental missteps.
The real problem is that the format you would get with that liberal a banned list is much more powerful than Wizards wants, and probably more powerful than
For the record, my and my team have for fun played Modern with no banned list, not even Skullclamp. It's a really fun format. Very diverse. Counterbalance, Mental Misstep, Inquisition of Kozilek, Abrupt Decay, Repeal, Engineered Explosives, etc. are more than enough to keep the format slow enough to be interesting, and having the clamp around makes it so even the jankiest of weird decks can steal games by just drawing a pile of cards, so basically every deck we've made is at least viable. If it were a tournament format, I would be playing way more magic.
INS: I really dislike Thirst here, since there just aren't all that many artifacts you're remotely interested in discarding, or artifacts period, but that's just me. By all means try it, though. I've learned to hold your card choices in pretty high regard As for pacts, I don't know, but it sounds a lot like you're going for the Hive Mind kill too often. I made the same mistake when I was trying this deck out. In fact, I still do. But don't be afraid to go for the Battlesphere instead. I think some of those issues will be resolved when you do.