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  • posted a message on [C20] Commander deck names
    Red has been the most represented color with ever since they stopped doing things in cycles in 2017. All other have 7 besides green that has 6. I think red will be underrepresented no matter what. They still have to fill the gaps of 2color and 3 color decks plus a 5 color deck. There won't be another jeskai or mardu or bant(which i mistakenly wrote) till we get abzan temur azorious golgari gruul azorious dimir simic orzhov and the 5 color one

    Where has it said they are trying to fill in color combos?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Art of Magic: Legends
    From how its described it looks like its gonna be closer to "History of the Gatewatch" which was very much an art book than an art book and lore guide.

    But it does look like what lore we are getting it getting written by Jay13x so yay!
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Mana Strikers skin

    isomorphed asked: I am suspicious about you being not allowed to seriously comment about "Heart of the Aether" Gideon. I am right?

    A: It’s not that I can’t talk about it, there’s just a lot going on with Magic at large and I didn’t want to misspeak. I talked to our liaison with the game and here’s what’s going on.

    Manastrike takes place in Bolas’s Meditation Realm and is largely a simulation. That’s why you can see Jace battling Jace, for example. This conceit allows the game to do some “what if” character skins like Heart of the Aether Gideon skin. You’ll see more “what if” character skins in the future.

    I thought this was a cute way to have the game being canon but not canon at the same time.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on The Art of Magic the Gathering: War of the Spark
    After the backlash of The WAR I’m actually stunned they proceeded with this one instead of continuing to Eldraine. I’m not sure if Eldraine has enough material since it’s our first visit to a new plane, but definitely Theros on a second visit especially considering the first was three sets. Really looking forward to Theros

    We got art books for Kaladesh, Amonkhet and Ixalan.

    After the backlash of The WAR I’m actually stunned they proceeded with this one instead of continuing to Eldraine. I’m not sure if Eldraine has enough material since it’s our first visit to a new plane, but definitely Theros on a second visit especially considering the first was three sets. Really looking forward to Theros

    To be honest I think there is a line between the novels and set itself. I actually really liked the war of the spark set and the story told in the cards but have no interest in the prose if that makes sense. War of the Spark and Throne of Eldraine have been my favorite sets since Tarkir. I really enjoyed the Wildered Quest though.

    I agree a lot and personally liked the plot of War of the Spark even if the writing fell on the shorter end for the novel. As the art books tend to have plot/lore stuff they sometimes can't fit in the novel I'm hoping now to lean stuff like what happened with Sorin and Nahiri coming to a truce or what ever Ashiok was doing.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on The Art of Magic the Gathering: War of the Spark

    Well looks like the art books are coming back? (if they ever where discounted)... a year and several months later. Ignoring the ever more strange release of this sets story and lore, I wonder what all this will have. Ravnica itself already got an art book so I guess maybe more on Bolas plans worked and maybe some side stuff on the walkers we didn't get to see in the story.

    If they continue this we might end up seeing the Theros story maybe in the Theros art book, thought hopefully they also include Eldraine too.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on 2/14 Secret Lairs: Theros Stargazing
    Ooo this is temping for the art and flavor but I don't really have the $150 to spend.

    Hopefully we see the fully art for these at least I love Jasons work on the alternate god arts.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Theros Beyond Death the rest of the cards and story
    The issues is after years of only hinting at and keep the romance at subtext level, they have Chandra break up with Nissa in part for being only into men and Nissa just being hot/a phase. For a company that talks about how its want to have a representation of more minorities in their game this was a horrible case of queer baiting, something that has been a huge issue for queer rep and that make anything they have done feel disingenuous.

    Quote from Mishotem »
    As for Chandra-Nissa, link some stories that concretely establish them as an actual couple instead of really good friends who depend on each other. I've been reading the stories on the main site for years now and all I ever got from it was that the two of them had a pretty deep friendship, but that's all it ever was.

    "I've never spent so long in cities before," Nissa said. "Between Kaladesh and here, I've had more than my share of people."

    "You seem to be getting along fine," Chandra replied.

    Nissa shook her head. "I have gotten better at hiding my discomfort. Being around others so often is draining."

    "But not with us, right?"

    The question caught Nissa's attention. She watched Chandra intently unbuckle and rebuckle the same strap of her vambrace.

    Nissa frowned. Thought over her words. "Yes and no."

    Fiddling hands paused, while a meandering mind searched for the words to lend shape to unfamiliar feelings.

    "Friendship with all of the Gatewatch is still quite new. I'm still trying to understand what it means to have friends in the first place," Nissa said.

    Chandra made a small noise and looked out on the plaza, her posture heavy and leaden, her fingers suddenly quite still.

    Nissa continued. "On Zendikar, I was without the company of people for most of my life. The plane was the closest thing to a friend I had. Learning to trust has been . . . slow—and there is still much for me to learn. Understanding and sustaining friendships is daunting when one has never really done it before."

    Chandra shifted awkwardly. "So . . . friendship?"

    Nissa blinked. Chandra worked very hard not to stare.

    "Yes," Nissa smiled.

    Nissa closed her eyes, and took another deep breath, her headache receding. It felt good to confess insecurities. She smiled and looked Chandra in the eye.

    "I am thankful for your companionship. You have taught me much about what it means to be a friend, Chandra. It means much to me."

    "Right. Yeah." A soft smile returned to Chandra's face.

    Again going back to this being queer baited this was the most it ever got to Nissa and Chandra before saying they have feelings...or rather the original draft before it was edited;


    Which show more os Chandra asking if Nissa would want more then friendship currently.

    After the backlash all this came out, we got several word of gods;

    Michael Yichao, former writer and creative member on how Chandra and Nissa where queer and how hurtful to him as a bi man they turned out;

    A queer consulted who was brought in at the being on the Bolas arc about Nissa and Chandra becoming a couple;

    and finally Maro saying right out Chandra is into other genders;

    So the intent was always Chandra and Nissa would start having a romantic relationship.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Full art Basics from Unsanctioned
    Quote from leslak »
    Quote from 5colors »
    Quote from DanzBorin »
    Ahh... Wizards pushing sales of product with lands is getting bad. It used to be once every few years, now it's multiple times a year. Enough already.

    You mean when they put them in unsets?

    I think he mean "on any product" cause full art lands were a big factor on the huge sales from Unglued, Unhinged, Zendikar(original) and Worldwake, Battle for Zendikar and Oath, etc (from a casual stand point(people that buy 10 boosters each set, more or less)) Now, since Battle for zendikar we had them in Amonkhet and hour, Unstable, the judge ones and other promos, Snow fullart, Nyx fullart. Maybe he is in a fatigue for fullart lands.

    Fullart lands are always welcome but ye they are really pushing theirs sales with fullart lands now (Theros collector's boosters and normal boosters, this, etc )

    Also, just for people to be aware: Every pack with the 5 30 cards decks comes with 5 fullart foil (1 for each basic land) and 5 non foil fullart (1 for each type) the lands inside the decks looks to be normal lands.

    For a normal set sure but who thought they wouldn't do full art lands for this? Unsets are where the idea first came from.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Full art Basics from Unsanctioned
    Quote from DanzBorin »
    Ahh... Wizards pushing sales of product with lands is getting bad. It used to be once every few years, now it's multiple times a year. Enough already.

    You mean when they put them in unsets?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [UND] All 16 new cards and the decklists.
    Surgeon General Commander notes mutate something we haven't heard of before and nothing else in the set notes this soooooo Ikoria hint?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Theros Beyond Death the rest of the cards and story
    Quote from login »
    Quote from Flamebuster »
    In short: War of the Spark ****ed it up for everyone and they were spooked by it. Nice to see them admitting this and are going back to the latest tried-and-true approach.

    This ought to be interesting moving forward.

    It genuinely irks me that Greg Weisman and his incompetent trash compromised the Theros story release for us all. As if Vorthos didn’t suffer enough enduring what he did to the Bolas arc and all the characters and relationships creative worked so hard to establish. Let alone the insult to injury. I doubt this vetting process for Theros fiction was even warranted. This was a Greg weisman issue. Unless he was the author, they could have just released the Theros ebook. That said, I understand why they needed to take this approach. But if Kate Elliot and the Wildered Quest demonstrated anything, it’s that Greg was the problem, not consumer sensitivity, not the lore itself, but a horrible “author” who smashed the “novels” he “wrote” together the night before on dragon software with Junior high locker room banter in the background evidently.

    Greg wasn't the problem alone, someone had to approve his work and since he is an outsider they probably gave him the plot and some details to write about, did they requested him to get up to date in magic lore? who gave the green light on the whole teyo-rat sub plot, Greg in fact stated on twitter that the Chandra-Nissa resolution was requested by higher ups.

    Greg writing was terrible but I doubt he is the one responsible for the content.

    ^^^ This. Greg writing was only one part of the issues. While the authors are given creative wiggle room unless told otherwise we don't know what the author added, but anything we see in card form we know is what creative put in. All we know is Greg de-aged Teyo and made him a pov character and added in Rat. The plot lines and character arc are also out of his hands as he mentioned during interviews for war of the spark he was told that certain character where gonna be restricted in how he could used them since they where in up coming stories (he calls out Tibalt in the Chandra comic for example).

    My questions is too is why hired Greg, an outsider unfamiliar with the lore and work to wrapped up a 5/10 year plot line instead of Sanderson or Khaw who are fan and familiar with it? Where was the editors to fix up the writing? Why doesn't Doug Beyer, a senior member of the creative team, get to read the final draft of the novels? Why release the Gathering Storm so late when a lot what its plot was kinda need to fill in stuff from War?

    This speaks to issues far beyond one authors writing and a whole lot of how the process of the ebooks is going.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Theros Beyond Death the rest of the cards and story
    Figured to put this here since this was where most of the topic had been talked about. We got our answer for no Theros story, Maro reached out to the franchise team and here is what we got;

    "What you’re seeing is Magic’s Franchise team testing and learning. Starting with Dominaria fiction we increased our investment and ambition in how we want to delivery great story to our fans. What if we were able to build a talent pool of authors that mirrored our talent pool of illustrators? What new delivery channels could we use to expand the reach of our fiction?

    "Since Dominaria, you’ve seen us expand our author pool, enter into new licensed partnerships for comics and novels, and vary both the number of stories released and the length of those stories. We want to best understand the tone that works for our audience as well as the specific content that resonates most successfully in any given narrative expression (short form vs. comics vs. long form, for example). To do that we have to create opportunities to test and learn.

    "With Wildered Quest, we released our first new-era ePub through Penguin Random House. It was more successful than anticipated and was well received. The blowback from Forsaken illuminated that we needed a better validation strategy not only for issues of representation, but for narrative content in general; so we made the hard call to delay Theros Beyond Death fiction until we could create a new vetting process. That unfortunately meant that we would miss our intended release window. We did our best to leverage our preview plans and marketing support to deliver the broad strokes of the story so people weren’t left completely in the lurch, but we know you are disappointed and we are too. We’re doing everything we can to ensure this will be a one-time cost for a smoother future.

    "With Ikoria we will return to an ePub strategy, and we will also find the correct time and channel to release the Theros Beyond Death fiction. Maybe it will be part of an anthology, or direct to Audible, or as a graphic novel.

    "Magic fandom deserves a publishing program as robust and enjoyable as the TCG, and Magic’s Franchise Team is committed to delivering exactly that. In the meantime, don’t be dismayed when you see us try new things. Don’t be shy in telling us when something doesn’t work (imagine a big smiley face emoji when I say that historically this hasn’t been an issue), but, more importantly, make sure you tell us what you love. That’s what we want to deliver."

    -Jeremy Jarvis

    So yeah they realized they been rushing out the story without enough editing and quality control. Positive is they do want to release the Theros 2 story at some point so while I'm saying this as excuse for it, glad we will see it hopefully in some form.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Ikoria Lair of Behemoths promotional art from THB boosters
    Quote from Thalassoporos »
    Vivien Reed is an interesting choice, mostly because she has no primary motivation anymore. Nicol Bolas been thoroughly defeated, her world is dead, which really leaves only two facets of her left. The eco-terrorist personality from short stories and also the Steve Irwin personality she has from various flavor texts.

    I'd guess she could similar to Elspeth and looking for a new home.

    From stuff we saw from behinds and the scenes on War of the Spark they mentioned a number of walkers who appeared where pull in from early drafts for future storylines with some like Davriel or Dovin being fitting in where they could ahead of time. I'd guess Vivien is similar so the Bolas and home world stuff might have been added on with what they already drafted out for this set.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Theros: Beyond Death (flavor spoilers)
    Taranika, Akroan Veteran I think points to it being after war and forsaken.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Theros: Beyond Death (flavor spoilers)
    Quote from ArixOrdragc »
    Again, I must point out that I am not the one who said this. Pay attention to who you're quoting before you try to pin someone else's words on me.

    I'm simply pointing out the "polite request" for non-humans you say I'm being dismissive towards and the reason you felt like going this off topic.

    I do understand however while feelings do have a place in a discussion people are confusing feelings for facts and running with that instead of looking what been going on. The whole non-human thing has several part all related but different so I'll address them;

    1) "All the walkers are mostly human or where human" mostly where my list comes from and to point out, while subjective on how many should be there ~ 30-40% of the current walkers on cards are non-human.

    2) "Wizard doesn't make any new non-human walkers" again not true looking over the new walker they made such as Angrath and Dovin.
    I agree, there do exist a good chunk of nonhuman planeswalker cards. This is fact, no one can argue it. That's why the complaint is less about existence and more about relevance - it's real hard to be excited about the umpteen billionth human-centric story just because we had that one minotaur on that one card.

    Most of the complaints through this form was centered on the number of walkers.

    3) "Non-Humans are sidelined in the story" Thats a different topic and somewhat true to a degree IMO. As said the main 5 gatewatch got overwhelming spotlight and we have now seen them trying to expand outside of them. However you could said this for many of the other non- gatewatch 5 members. And of note Bolas, Vraska and Nissa have had major story arcs and/or been featured. And while related the walker characters on the story aren't tied to the cards fully anymore. Shouldn't matter if most walkers are human if the non-humans are getting featured in story.
    I guess this is where our main source of disagreement comes from, because it's not a different topic - it is the topic I argue.

    Which is new for this forum, again most people haven't complained about the story they complained about again the number of human walkers.


    ...we like only human planeswalkers.

    This is a gross-overly simplify version of whats their reasoning. Humans have harder time empathizing with things that we deem the "other" or what ever we don't see as the "norm". This is't something Maro is making up this is a theory that been seen in media design and psychology. With non-human designs the farther away from human feature (eyes and other facial ones being big), body types (four limbs, bipedal) and even with taxonomy with us favoring mammals over lizard and bird and those over bugs, fish, squids, ect. Add on human features and traits to a being and its easier for humans to empathize with it, remove human traits and features and it makes it seem more monstrous and harder to empathize with. Alien movies have been doing this with years with its designs. This why humans have been irrationally afraid of things like spiders over a bear or a snake over a mountain lion. Add in magic lore is primly told through static art and and written mediums. This makes it harder to communicate the character to the average player. Given we are getting netflix shows and arena gives the walkers voices lines (helping humanizing the non-humans) this might lead to non-human getting moe popular.
    Aside from, again, this is not something I said, I feel like I must correct something else here, because it's another very common misconception. I do not deny, nor have I ever denied, that those who prefer nonhumans are in the minority. Trust me, that could not possibly be more clear. I started playing Magic back in 2000 - Prophecy was my first set - and even before that point, I was already fully aware of the fact that I was in the minority here. You don't need to say it, because the world itself makes it entirely clear. There is absolutely nothing that you, Maro, or anyone else can say, in the clearest and most specific language on Earth, that could possibly make that clearer. I do not claim otherwise, never have, and never will.

    What I do claim is that the human bias is not nearly as all-consuming as it's made out to be. Pop culture is absolutely rife with examples of nonhuman characters that appeal to all sorts of different people (to quote a wise philosopher, "No one would like Mickey Mouse if he was Mickey Dude"). Even though I am fully aware that people, in general, prefer humans, I don't believe for a second that that means they're against nonhumans. I fully believe that the overwhelmingly vast majority of the audience would be absolutely fine with seeing a nonhuman protagonist every once in a while. Keywords there being "every once in a while" - I do not expect to be catered to all the time. Once every few years, especially when combined with some more relevant side-characters in the meantime, would do absolute wonders, while, again, the human-loving majority would still be perfectly fine with it. I believe this is even more true when you consider that Magic fans are in all likelihood fantasy fans in general, who are even more accepting of such "weird" things. You can prefer chocolate while still liking vanilla.

    And this maybe where you need to look at the facts and not feeling. The story have been human centered but we have seem plenty of stories and moments that focus on the non-humans. Maybe not enough to your liking but we Zendikar 2, Kaladesh, Ixalan and Ravnica 3 all having non-human in the spotlight (pw and legendary creatures) with Bolas being the driving antagonist. Ask for more but don't over dramatize there isn't any.

    This all seems pretty reasonable to me but the replies to this either are "Thats just made up marketing talk" or "I'm not the average person and thus don't feel what the average player wants" or rants each time a human walker is shown instead. And those are the remarks I tend to reply not those saying in general wanting more non-humans Big difference between;

    This isn't really important, tho, since we like only human planeswalkers. Can't wait to see Ikoria, the so-called plane of monsters, where we are gonna have our umpteenth human PW.

    and not "Well I love angels and would like to see one even thought non-humans aren't as popular and an angel would need a lore hoop to jump through".
    Same points as above.

    And related but more so personal to you;

    5) "Elves, Kor, Vampiren ect aren't non-human enough" well agree to disagree I feel like appearances since the only thing to show if something is human. While I see your point with Nahiri and kor and other magic original races, I've said before things like elves, vampires and dwarfs have mythological, pop cultural and genre related bias on not being human or being a perversion of humans traits. Not saying you can't ask for "monstrous" but understand this your personal line of non-human isn't not only not just what magic goes by but the genre and human folklore. Funny this thing also started over talks of an angel walker which you wound't have been thrilled with for non-humans walker.
    I agree that it's a personal line, but my point is that it's a line that is likely shared by many who want to see more nonhumans, which is why pointing out things like that is not nearly as helpful as you think. Even if you disagree, surely it's not hard to see where someone's coming from when they say that "human with funny ears" isn't exactly satisfying their desire for nonhumans.

    Sure but "Nissa is just a human with a long ears and doesn't count" isn't helpful when the company that are the game and story is on the opposite line and unless clearly told will still use Nissa as for non-human rep. Ask for more but need to realize unless spelled out what your line you want, wizards will hear nonhuman and use character like Nissa and Nahiri.

    And by the by, I'm not saying that they can't have elf, dwarf, kor, vampire, or whatever else. Of course they can. I'm saying that this "variety" of "it's basically just a human except for one very minor detail" is not satisfying to someone who actively wants more nonhumans. I wouldn't mind these "basically human" races if they were mixed in with more actual nonhumans.

    I'm also not saying that they need to be completely monstrous. I mean, I wouldn't mind a few more monstrous ones, but yeah, I know the difficulty. But there's a happy medium in between "basically human" and "alien jellyfish". More Ajani, less Nahiri. More viashino, less dwarf.

    Monstrous is a tabletop game term that in general is the group use for being that aren't the basic human shape and featured, so the creatures you want more of are in this category (as well as the alien jellyfishes).

    I also hear people say, in defence of the basically-humans, "Well it's their unique mindsets/experiences/lifestyles/whatever which make them interestingly nonhuman". I know you didn't say this, but it is something I want to address. First of all, it often isn't actually the case. MtG elves (and Magic is far from the only property to do this, and elves are far from the only race to do this, but we're using it as an example) aren't typically "uniquely elven" - they often take a mindset which could be entirely applicable to a regular human, but decide that's just how elves feel. No, I don't believe that Nissa's mindset couldn't apply to any old human. I don't expect them to create a completely nonhuman and alien mindset for them - that's basically impossible after all - but it doesn't make it any less true that this "uniquely elven mindset" is typically anything but.

    The second point is that physical appearance does matter. After all, if it didn't, then where's the problem in making more obviously nonhuman-looking characters in the first place?

    And agree to disagree with that then.

    Personally I just like seeing fun new walkers human or non-human but imo human representing and demographics are more important (and to wizards more sellable) than non-humans and wizard need to still work on how they are representing human demographics.
    I mean, yeah, I see that. I'm not saying representing human diversity isn't important. I think the bigger problem is their seeming complete reluctance to give our crowd what we're asking for. Whenever they're asked for some sort of human representation, they say "Absolutely" - as very well they should, I'm not at all implying it should be otherwise - although I do think there's a lot more to it than Wizards says, but that's a whole other topic entirely (fantasy uses allegory and metaphor all the time, even when it isn't intentional - if someone finds themselves relating to a particular nonhuman character, or even a whole race, who never gets to be in the spotlight because only the preferred majority are allowed to be heroes, you can see how that could cause issues). But whenever someone asks for nonhumans, we're met with "Nah nobody wants to see that" or "There are already plenty, see -points to The List-". If we were at least allowed to have some hope - something a bit more than the vaguest possible "Maybe at some distance point in the future if all the planets align but really no" - it would go a long way.[/quote]

    Over dramatic much? Again while personal lines and such but they have even said they made characters like Angrath and Wrenn for the people who want less humans, feel free to ask more but people also tend to very much miss things unless presented out.

    So I guess to sum up feel free to feel how you want but also realize your feeling don't quite match up with what being presented.

    Any who I'm done detailing the forum happy pre-release to all who went.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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