MTG Salvation

You can also just see what Maro said when making the sets;
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/twinkle-someones-ikoria-2020-04-13
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/strixhaven-part-1-2021-03-29


For Ikoria they added the multi-color theme to play well with Ravnica 3 before rotation and they knew three color would be popular in commander and it was the year of commander.

For Strixhaven Maro said it started as wanting to do a bottom up MDFC set that lead to the magic school set idea that could be both instant and sorcery matters and enemy colored set and Strixhaven was pitched with all those ideas as the full package.

Mark says nothing about the commander decks influencing the design for either. Thats not to say they couldn't and we don't know about New Capenna yet (except its started as a bottom up set that lead itself to the demon crime family flavor,) but seemly the decks themselves aren't a big enough factor to bring up if they did have some influence.

Quote from Mergatroid_Jones »

What I meant is indeed that noir is pretty far apart from fantasy. It's a direct reflection of the 20th century, and indeed a specific moment in the 20th century. It's a film genre for one thing. And one that stresses realism. Fantasy tropes can be applied to any setting, but sometimes it clashes more than others. Heck we're getting fantasy in space in unfinity, so it's not that crazy. But the tension is still there.

Fantastic Noir is a thing so its really not that unheard of;
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FantasticNoir

Fantasy as a genre is weird in that really it doesn't have much rules or tropes to it except "does this setting have paranormal/supernatural/magical elements that are a core feature?". I get what you mean in it not being what we think of traditional fantasy but i don't think it really clashes, just hasn't been that mainstream compared to the more Tolkien fantasy we see.

Quote from lookingupanddown »

Quote from 5colors »

I'm reminded of Kaldheim where everyone was having a fit over snow not being in the set and Kaya killing Vorniclex. Those sure turned out right and no looked like an ass for not waiting to see how everything turned out before assuming what was gonna happen.

Admitting mistakes? On the internet? Who does that?

Eh I'd like people wait to see what a set/story is fully before trying to make snap judgements. It looks likely Ob kills Xander but we don't know that for sure nor what the context of what happens. Similar with people seeing during Ixalan Jace as gonna erase Vraska and being unhappy until they saw it part of a plan to make Vraska a secret double agent.

Also

You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue

I'm reminded of Kaldheim where everyone was having a fit over snow not being in the set and Kaya killing Vorniclex. Those sure turned out right and no looked like an ass for not waiting to see how everything turned out before assuming what was gonna happen.

Something I brought up in Dec;

Often when referring female rulers (I believe for east asian empires mostly) you use Emperor when referring to the position to to show that the person is the ruler and not the consort. For example Wu Zetian is called the first female Emperor of China to note she was the actual person on the throne (though calling her Empress Zetian isn't incorrect).

So while Empress would be right, having her go by Emperor notes she is the ruler and not the consort of one.

Quote from soramaro »

On the one hand, another story arc with a new big bad is kind of neat. On the other, I hate the "oh, this character you loved? They're brainwashed and evil now" thing. I honestly would've preferred Tamiyo to die. WotC's anti-human bias also continues to show - why not have one of the random human planeswalkers suffer this fate, I'm sure we have over a dozen of them at this point.

Cause it hurts more. Tamiyo isn't a hero, she's a researcher and mother who never wanted to have an adventure/quest but just write down stories and histories of the multiverse to share with her partner and kids and actively tried to avoid danger and conflict when she could.

Does look like Tamiyo will likely be in the set as she seems to be taking a more active role since Tezzeret and such has brought Phyrexia to Kamigawa and is experimenting on the kami.

I also like how its tied together with AoA and War of the Spark and such, nice to seem them linking up stories like this.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

Despite being ten years apart, and multiple planes visited,

Kaito has only been a planeswalker for a year, its been ten years since the Emperor vanished.

Kaito doesn't seem to have grown up at all, or develop a more holistic wisdom on how system works.

He's also black aligned who naturally believe more in the self over a group, individualism vs the system. Also he's 17 years they aren't know for "holistic wisdom".

Quote from Melkor »

Quote from seilaoque »

seems like we're getting new versions from all the Praetors in a multiset cycle then?

Nice....

it would be great to return to Phyrexia soon.

They are 100% building up for a return to Phyrexia, like they are right out in the open about it. Trouble is that they have been building to it since at least 2018 with Dominaria and Karn going to dig up the Sylex, and at this rate it will be 2026 before it happens, assuming they continue with one praetor in the first set of the year and then do Phyrexia after that.

Hopefully that's just the first two and not the pattern. I know it can't be this year, but 2023 or 2024 would be reasonable

I think a a part of that was outside of creatives control.

Some leaker (who got Kamigawa and other spoilers right) said that Sheoldred was suppose to be in Eldraine. Later Maro talked on how Eldraine was originally gonna be two sets with one more focused on the Arthurian side and would have been a bit lighter in tone and one more focused on the Fairy tale side with a darker tone (mimicking how the twins went from the safety of the castle and home to go into the fairy tale woods as part of their quest) and that Kasmina was gonna to be in the set as the Merlin stand in. So if the leaker is right (and they had been right about stuff) seems like the Sheoldred bit got cut out.

Also Theros Beyond Death had its novel cancelled but the brief summary did note that Ashiok learned of Phyrexia from Elspeth and went to learn more about them. While not a praetor per say it is likely Ashiok will become an ally to the Phyrexias since it would be the best nightmare fuel.

As first spoilers are coming out and leaks are starting to ooze out I figured it was time to start this thread.

We are returning to the plane of Kamigawa set over thousands of years after the end of the last time we saw giving Kamigawa a bit of a re-flavoring from shifting from the traditional Shinto inspired plane to adding in elements of cyberpunk and bring Kamigawa more futuristic than a typical magic plane. Cyberpunk is a science fiction subgenre that featured advance technology that mixes with themes of social change or breaks down, commonly features cybernetic body modification or similar transformtion themes and was often coupled with East Asian cultural influences.


Early lore

Not much is know about the story of Kamigawa 2 but we have learned that a "familiar face" is the current emperor of Kamigawa.

Know planeswalkers in the set;

UB Kaito- A human cyber ninja who has a kami familiar in the shape of a Tanuki.

The Wanderer - a Samurai planeswalker and the possible Emperor. Likely W[/spoiler]

Quote from Morphling »

Quote from lookingupanddown »

so expect a lot of Birds and deep cuts.

...and some things, well, they just made up out of nowhere.

Gothmog wasn't human (or orc) and lived thousands of years earlier and had basically literally zero to do with anything going on LOTR era. I'm sure his name was on a whiteboard somewhere so they decided to jam him in. Kinda silly.

Respectfully, there are two characters named Gothmog and the card refers to the second.

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Except that we indeed know next to nothing about Theros.

We still know way more than about most of the other planes referenced in the set. Your complain would be valid if this was the "Phyrexia vs Theros" set, but it isn't, and you're coming off as a whiny child who didn't get the toy they want, so they moan and moan.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

(Ironic how Sheoldred accused Norn of being selfish, when that's a core characteristic of black.)

I don't think Sheoldred was castigating Elesh Norn for being selfish so much as she was accusing her of being a hypocrite. Sheoldred was open about her selfishness and always had been, and she had long seen straight through Norn's self-righteous facade. Her final accusation of "You only care about yourself" would hardly be a biting condemnation of her fellow Thanes, who have always been as shamelessly selfish and treacherous as she was. Against holier-than-thou Norn, however, the accusation was a well-aimed (and truthful) dart.

it's okay that planeswalkers get to come back. It's good that we've got stakes, but fine that we're not losing the whole cast.

But I'd like to see some scars. After being Nahiri, the Unforgiving, she should permanently lose her arms. And Nissa, Ascended Animist seems to have grown her hair back awfully quickly. For a process that so totally changes a person's physiology, these guys seem physically the same as ever. That diminishes the stakes they worked so hard to make real.

Quote from 5colors »

Quote from Mullerornis »

Vraska seems to have died, but they haven't found the body...

And more important, seemly no card art of her death.

My take is that the part of the "good Vraska" that was able to seal itself inside of her psyche (in the secret part Jace created to evade Bolas back in the day) was able to take back control as the Phryexian parts of her died, and it activated a planeswalk away. Some extremely wounded but de-phyrexianized living Vraska may be recovering somewhere - yes maybe Ixalan!

I really liked both stories today. Amazing seeing Zhalfir found and back and now coming to the rescue to invade Phyrexia itself.

So that seems to be where Teferi ended up when he time-jumped/spirit-shifted/whatever at the end of his conversation with Urza in Brother's War. That has me thinking that the mysteries spirit watchers that have appeared in a couple of these stories are something else, though.

The story has had some great moments and I'm looking forward to the rest.

I think we can safely rule out a time travel solution, for the reason that Elspeth (rather than Teferi) appears to emphatically be the hero of the set. That means whatever the ultimate solution is, Elspeth will be the key, and Elspeth can't do time travel. I expect Teferi will be important, but ultimately not the final key to saving the day. He seems more apt to play the role of the first counter-punch by returning with Zhalfir, much like the reveal of Parhelion II/Awakening of Vitu-Ghazi (or even Niv-Mizzet Reborn) was a huge "the good guys are fighting back" moment during WAR reveal season. His re-entrance won't win the day, but will allow the good guys to regroup, stabilize, and hit back, while Elspeth takes on Norn.

Based on what we know of Elspeth, and the continued emphasis on both Capenna and Halo, I agree with the prior thought that Elspeth will detonate some kind of Halo super-nuke on Realmbreaker that will more or less purge/roll back the Phyrexian corruption while leaving the planes connected. I am actually increasingly convinced that Elspeth's grand re-entrance (presumably on Capenna) will involve her outright un-compleating Atraxa (at least mentally) with her new/remembered angelic powers. The idea of the Phyrexians, and particularly Norn, having to fear un-compleation by Elspeth the same way everyone else fears completion is very appealing, and would truly hammer home the idea of Elspeth as the bane of Phyrexia and Phyrexians.

To throw spoiler notes

This has gone beyond embarrassing for everyone involved. Are there still mods here?

Quote from Flisch »

I didn't expect much but was still disappointed. There was no new information on the layers and only one or two sentences on the praetors.

That and the couple mistakes (it said Karn created Mirrodin with five suns which is false, because it wasn't until Memnarch had blocked Karn out that the core destabilized and ejected the suns) makes me wonder if anyone at WotC even cares anymore.

I mean, the fact that we get lore that the Surgical Bays and the Dross Pits started as Kraynox's and Roxith's layers respectively is kinda cool

From a Coppercoat to an actual copper-coated monstrosity.