MTG Salvation

Quote from Forestsguy »

So wait a minute, Teferi and Jhoira and Venser all drank this "timbe bubble" and have no aging? meanwhile Lily needs to sell her soul four times?

Also Liliana problity hasn't gone back to Dominaria since she sparked. Plus by the time she was making deals her age had already caught up to her, time water won't have helped.

Quote from K-Man »

Quote from Maritrakul_Devourer_of_Lore »

EDIT: There was someone who told about Ashiok. Good catch! "She saw a young man, his face erased, stumbling among a garden of statues. High above the man a growing cloud of dusk attacked the sun. From somewhere outside the garden there was a mighty roar." Now that I think about it. Ashiok could be from Amonkhet. The horns he has on the summit of his "head" recall Bolas', also he was pretty interested in Gods on Theros, maybe not only because of his peculiar magic, maybe he already saw gods and wanted to understand them better on another plane. Well saying that he wanted to understand them to help Bolas doing the s*** he did on Amonkhet is pretty improbable, seing time is still "mostly" linear in magic... still it's curious.

I was trying to get people to comment on that along with all the other clues.
Wonder who those three kids are who went into the Desert

The other gods maybe. This weeks story hinted they might still be around in some form.

Quote from Xeruh »

And I have mixed feelings on Amonkhet. We know that this needs to be a loss for the Gatewatch. But at the same time Egypt seems like a really popular trope with lots of potential space. And they usually build planes now with a built in return in case it gets popular enough to justify it. Seems hard to imagine they'd stop doing that with just Amonkhet.

Quote from Fiveod »

I prefer when they use real-world cultures and mythologies as inspiration rather than just basically copying and pasting them directly in to Magic so I hope this is a little more Lorwyn/Innistrad/Kaladesh and a little less Amonkhet/Theros.

Innistrad was "copying and pasting", Olivia is Dracula, blue zombies are Frankenstein, Delver of Secrets is the Fly, Creepy Doll is Chucky, Predator Ooze is the blob, Aurora of Emrakul is the The Colour Out of Space, ect.

We finally got our Liliana POV story and adding into the world building Razaketh guards the Gate to the Afterlife.

Quote from Vorthospike »

Quote from 5colors »

Quote from Vorthospike »

So I noticed a weird thing on Cartouche Of Zeal. Apparently the trials have to be completed in a particular order? Or at least the Trial of Zeal is the final trial. I'm not sure why it would be setup that way. Given that Deem Worthy also shows Hazoret it seems that Hazoret's judgement is held is especially high esteem by Bolas.

Also has it been confirmed that if you complete the trials you get always get killed? That seems to be the implication of Deem Worthy but it also doesn't really make a lot of sense.

It's been said before but yes it goes WUGBR order;

The Trial of Solidarity— Tests your ability to work with others.
The Trial of Knowledge—Tests your mental capacity.
The Trial of Strength—Tests your physical capacity.
The Trial of Ambition—Tests your willingness to do whatever it takes.
The Trial of Zeal—Trial is a fight to the death.

The winner is then killed in a honorable death by Hazoret and is put on a boat and sent through the Gate to the Afterlife. It considered the highest and best type of death on Amonkhet.

Okay, thanks I completely missed that. Where was it explained?

I can't remember where they first said it but they talk abut on the Amonkhey preview show (its on youtube) and Maro's design articles on Amonkhet.

Quote from Vorthospike »

So I noticed a weird thing on Cartouche Of Zeal. Apparently the trials have to be completed in a particular order? Or at least the Trial of Zeal is the final trial. I'm not sure why it would be setup that way. Given that Deem Worthy also shows Hazoret it seems that Hazoret's judgement is held is especially high esteem by Bolas.

Also has it been confirmed that if you complete the trials you get always get killed? That seems to be the implication of Deem Worthy but it also doesn't really make a lot of sense.

It's been said before but yes it goes WUGBR order;

The Trial of Solidarity— Tests your ability to work with others.
The Trial of Knowledge—Tests your mental capacity.
The Trial of Strength—Tests your physical capacity.
The Trial of Ambition—Tests your willingness to do whatever it takes.
The Trial of Zeal—Trial is a fight to the death.

The winner is then killed in a honorable death by Hazoret and is put on a boat and sent through the Gate to the Afterlife. It considered the highest and best type of death on Amonkhet.

While I think we’ll get one or two of the classic tribe (Goblins, Zombies etc) but I’d rather/hope them use it to support popular tribal decks that don't have much support.

Comment Hidden

Quote from Xeruh »

Quote from magac »

One thing that worries me about the overall story in this set is that there are three missing gods from Amonkhet. That number reminds me of some way-off speculation.

Aside from that, good worldbuilding article. Oketra seems like she's going to be problem.

EDIT: Okay, I just realized something.....

If Oketra knows Gideon's real name is Kytheon Iora, why is she not addressing Nissa as Nissa Revane? Is there some minor name retcon somewhere that I missed? I've checked and the name Worldwaker (to be more specific, Shaya) was given to her; it's not her native name...

Maybe she doesn't feel like using her full name? And for Gideon it's probably a big deal to be called Kytheon Iora, I'm not sure Nissa would have the same feeling about Nissa Revane.

And I think that eight is... odd for Magic. I don't see any way to balance the colors when five of them are monocolored, and equal representation is usually a big deal. Hoping one of them was Isis-themed though, after Thoth She's the Egyptian God I most like.

Asking an Egyptologist who on tumblr why they think it might have been 8 and she believes it might be a nod to the Ogdoad which was a group of 8 primortial gods who helped shape the world. Here's a link since she explains it a lot better;
https://akhonography.tumblr.com/post/159605263741/spoilers

Personally I think that the other three are gone and won't be in Hour, feels like the mention of the 4th arch angel sister in SoI.

Quote from Courier7 »

Quote from Tanion »

So they make ANOTHER card that searches/works with another card but isn't in the set? Like... Can we stop with that? It is not cute anymore. Search for God Pharaoh gift card and out it into play. Played with gate to the afterlife.

I concur. As far as I know, Dark Intimations is the only card in the entire history of Magic that references a card two sets away from itself (presuming we don't count the original Bolas planeswalker card. I remember when they did this with Renowned Weaponsmith--one piece of equipment was from the previous set and one from the subsequent set. That is simply weird.

I like it . Adds a game play mechanic of tension for Bolas retuning in HoD. In Amonkhet the Gate to the Afterlife fills up with Worthy but what is behind those gates?

My guesses;
Aven Initiate U (has an Ibis head)
Manticore R (we know there is one red embalm creature and Manticores are red in magic)
Labyrinth Guardian U (has the illusion ability)
Ahn-Crop Skirmisher U Nagas seem to be a GU race and its odd if one is in white
Aven Wind Guide WU the fact it grants flying and how much of an draft archtype card it is I'm guessing its the uncommon WU draft card. Could be mono-white still but this my guess.

Given how monumentally pissed the enfranchised playerbase was at Battle for Zen losing the thematic focus of Zendikar proper? Breaking Ravnica seems like a colossally bad idea Wizards won't do.

We might get a plot based set where guilds don't matter, but I doubt guilds won't be a thing for Rav4.

Quote from CatParty »

I kindathought Lorwyn was the fairy tale plane.... In the British lore sense. Do you mean something along the lines of Disney's Greatest hits fairy tales? Like Brother's Grimm style?

Oh that would be awesome actually, à la Once Upon a Time but darker. Yes please!

‘Buster

I kindathought Lorwyn was the fairy tale plane.... In the British lore sense. Do you mean something along the lines of Disney's Greatest hits fairy tales? Like Brother's Grimm style?

Quote from AUTUMNTWILIGHT »

Quote from Etherium Sage »

Quote from AUTUMNTWILIGHT »

That is all great they couldnt spend some time explaining some crap? Like why Jaya is looking for Karn? They were never friends on page before...or how the frak Jhoira got Teferi's Spark and no Wizard's Mana Rig is insufficient. Or why the frak everyone let Belzenlok build up a power base for decades before serious action was needed.

I'm thinking they should have kept that mythical second set, since it seems the story got compromised in some aspects when that set died.

They should have cut the fluff quite frankly. By that I mean a new Weatherlight crew...the Weatherlight Saga works because they were the main characters. The Gatewatch is not being benched anytime soon Maro and other Wizards Employees have made that crystal clear. Will see less cards for them but story wise they will dominate. This is made worse by them not letting the Weatherlight even Planeswalk so its not like will see them until a few years. But looking at the characters I am sorry why do u need Raff when you have Teferi, Jaya, Lili and Chandra? Shanna, Gideon does her job better? Arvad another Gideon Light. Tiana you got Karn and Jhoira for artifice. Like I said it be hard enough to make everyone shine against Belzenlok but they doubled the number of characters present and spent too much time getting the old gang back together. This story could have easily started with the Teferi, Jhoira, and Karn back at Tolaria Academy with no one batting in eye.

I'd keep Slimefoot in any event, and you can't convince me otherwise.

SLIMEFOOT! YAY!!!!!
Now the party can officially start.

"Because she agrees with us that it has to be done before we face Nicol Bolas again. I don't even know what you're asking me. Are you trying to find out why my first impulse isn't to use information given to me in strict confidence by one friend to manipulate another friend?"

"No, of course not!" Liliana strode away.

Slimefoot heard Gideon murmur, "Her capacity to lie to herself is almost infinite."

Wow. seems like Gideon knows Lili better than she knows herself. (although that doesn't seem to be much of an accomplishment).

If I would live on Grixis and be barefoot like she is, the first skill as a mage, that I would learn, is flying.

Y'all want them to communicate more openly, respond to everything and be more transparent, yet you immediately go at their throats like a pack of wolves if one person at WotC says one single word that isn't completely true at its strictest definition. It's something to think about as a community.

Quote from Worzel »

There are plenty of ways to bring people back from the dead, so who cares if the main cast dies every so often?

What's the point of killing people off if you just bring them back later?

Having a revolving door afterlife is not a good thing. It's one of the (many) big problems with comic books these days; the threat of death carries no narrative stakes anymore. Why should the audience care about, say, a plotline where someone is dying of some terrible disease? In a book or movie, the possibility of a character dying creates tension because you don't know if they'll live or die. But in comic books, it doesn't matter if a character dies, because they'll be back in a few years anyway. Superman sacrificed himself for the greater good? Meh. Aunt May's got cancer? Yawn. The latest issue of Suicide Squad had a high body count? Whatever. Jean Grey turned evil and the X-Men had to kill her? She's called the Phoenix for a reason. Nick Fury was KIA? Oh, yeah, I'm sure it wasn't just an LMD.

This is the level of stakes you're calling for here. WotC has, for the most part, abstained from bringing people back from the dead to ward off this exact kind of "stakes decay" or whatever you want to call it.

Quote from AUTUMNTWILIGHT »

Eh with the Gatewatch I have trouble telling the difference between character traits and color stereotypes so quiet, lack of sleep, constant apprehension, etc all seem pretty Blue when facing massive threats all the time and trying to hold Ravnica together.

Or perhaps you don't really understand the characters beyond their surface portrayal?

Quote from AUTUMNTWILIGHT »

Quote from nanoc »

I don’t feel bad either. It seems like they’ve forgotten all that other crappy stuff she’s done, like what you mentioned. If anything it just makes Jace and the rest of them, but especially Jace, into hypocrites because they say they don’t trust her but are still using her to do whatever it is they wanna do. No one really cares about helping her end her contracts (except Jace, but that’s changed) but they still help her do all this without knowing much about the veil and what it could do to her, only that it could help them kill Bolas. She’s getting the same treatment she gives and that’s fair lol

Yeah Jace looks bad...he was fine with Lili when she was evil and manipulative and he wanted to sleep with her but now that he is got a new gf suddenly he is concerned about Lili manipulating the group?

He was vulnerable and fell into an abusive relationship. He kept wanting to see the good in her, and she was one of the few personal connections he had. She cultivated this, like abusers do, by gaslighting him (super easy since he doesn't trust his own amnesiac memory) and making him feel worthless and dependant on her. It's not just that Jace actually found a real, healthy connection with Vrask, its that he's finally clear eyed about what Liliana is, how she operates, and his own value as a person.

She IS like Walter White, I agree. She can be charming and entertaining, and you can feel for her and want to root for her, but she is a terrible, abusive person who causes most of her own problems, and has always been concerned with gaining power.