MTG Salvation

I think the problem started with way back with Rav Allegiance when they tried to hide the amount sold and backfired while not selling as fast as last time. They scaled back and made it 100x more desirable. Also, they did something we usually don't get from them which is the amount they gonna make and the statement they will not print more. This created this hype and overreaction which was warranted. People expected it to sell in minutes. Even eBay couldn't handle this.

Although this was a eBay problem, so they should take the culpability, the fundamental flaw of this whole *****show is WotC doesn't know how to handle supply and demand properly. It was very clear that this product would be extremely popular and demanding. It was clear it would generate so much traffic. If they didn't disclosed the print run and said it wouldn't be printed anymore after this batch, maybe it wouldn't generate this anxiety to not missing out. I'm OK in disclosing the amount, but I'm not OK in saying that was just it to make people hyped. EBay dropped the ball, but I think the ball was flawed to begin with. WotC created this avoidable situation and this is the result.

I don't even believe any online outlet would be handle this situation any better. It was the perfect storm for this bad happening and the final fault is with WotC.

How many of you guys got one?

Got luck!

Dunno how I really feel about it. Probably it's fine. In the end of the day it's just extra option on how to buy sealed product and it's perfect tailored to those who likes to buy single boosters for the thrill.

This game feels like it started as "how to strip money from customers the best way possible" first and gameplay second. It seems like the devs have no idea on what direction to take with Arena. They say it's for the general public, but they pander the old guard and don't really do much at attract players outside of the HS community with those sponsorships. I guess they are happy with that.

They thought that an engine for the card would be more than enough. The basics are all over the place. The UI and menus are so 2000s, the animation effect is just OK at this stage of the beta, the timer is garbage, the collection management is amateurish, and matchmaking seems barebone at best. Arena would be amazing in 200X, but its systems and propositions seem very dated.

I don't care about the whole "economy sux" etcetera. HS economy sux and it's doing pretty fine. However, HS gameplay justifies its shoddy economy. It clearly started as a gameplay first like any good designed game should. Arena doesn't feel like that, so the only thing that matters is the economy as gameplay is just the bare minimum of acceptability for today's standard. I believe HS economy is worse than Arena right now, but it doesn't matter because HS service is way ahead of Arena (and that's a game with a very vocal community). Now I don't think there are much to Arena to back its economy proposition.

Sadly the message WotC/Hasbro gets from us customers is we are OK with this underpar service while they charge 250 bucks + shipping (on the website it mocks us with free shipping messages). It's just easy cash for them.

The whole experience was a mess. I guess that's not much different from past occurrences; however, this was a bit product with a huge shift in terms of distribution.

Maybe they should have let Amazon fill the orders, after all what's the point of ceasing distribution to LGS and letting Amazon do it if Hasbro can't handle a mere spike in traffic?

Every system inside Hasbro website and customer service were overwhelmed. They clearly didn't put any effort in this. They should have expected that as they barely can handle SDCC orders.

After all this time playing Arena and seeing how it is evolving, it's getting better, but it's not serving the real purpose for customers, new audience, and ultimately shareholders. They want a bigger stack from twitch/mobile audience, but I don't see Arena serving this purpose. At the same time it's trying to make MTGO crowd not unhappy by making it as close as MTG as possible while trying to be light and friendly to the general public. Again, it will failure at both fronts. At best it's just a compromise. However, we have that already and it's MTGO.

I think the best they can do is those duel games. Maybe they should make a new IP that may have some aspects of MTG Lore (like the idea of players being Planeswalkers) with new rules better adapted to mobile and streaming gaming that also can be translated to paper if they wanted to. It would hit two birds with two stones: increase the brand name for a bigger and younger audience and also increase the digital presence in a meaningful way. They could leave the Avenger style writing to that as well.

MTG is clearly not cut for the digital era IMO. MTG is in its own bubble and maybe it should stay that way. MTG isn't for everybody and never will be. Trying to push it to a wider audience just dilute its own special charm. Arena could just be a proper mobile/freemium game without trying to translate the paper experience 100%. It's not suitable to anybody. People are just forced to use MTGO because either they don't have better option or the need a tool for grinding. MTGO is perfect fine as is. Arena is just a more streamlined MTGO experience without any identity of its own. It's try to be HS with bad mobile micro transactions and MTGO style events.

People like Honor Basquiat are borderline disingenuous when he/she doesn't understand why people are against the RL and calling them contrarian. Instead of just trying understand the reason of some of the arguments, he/she warps and downplay it so badly and ignore the complete fair ones.

The argument of just 600 cards being in it and people being obsessed over it would be fine if Legacy was not a real competitive format and some of the cards in the reserve list are essential with no proper substitute. Saying dual lands aren't essential is laughable at best, dishonest even. Imagine if these cards weren't in reserve list? Legacy could be more widespread. Even that absurd argument about P9, he or she ignores that Vintage is also a super fun format that anyone who could have any access to it with real cards would jump to it in a heartbeat.

Also reprints don't mean reprint it to death and introduce them to formats where they don't belong, just like any reprint ever done. It's really nerving the way that poster ignores reality. P9 if it was ever reprinted in some alternate reality could be introduced as prizes for PT/worlds, so not many copies would be in the wild per year. Legacy reprints could be done in a similar fashion to Eternal masters.

Also, I dislike people saying that most of RL are garbage anyway as argument. Casuals would love to be able to play some of that "garbage". They are unique and deserve to be played as well. With the buyouts, not even hot garbage like Ramirez del Pietro will be at normal reach for casuals eventually. I imagine some people would like to play with it for laughs, but without paying overpriced premium for it.

Bottom line the real argument is should this be a game first or a collectible first. Can a balance be struck? I'm a collector first and I'd be ok with the RL gone. It served its purpose, it doesn't serve its original purpose now because buyouts just warp the market in an insidious way.

I understand the reason and history of the RL. Some cards like P9 should stay as a relic of the past and become antique items basically. However, some cards have no reason to be there (like retroactively adding cards from "newer" sets like Urza block). Intelligently done reprints don't hurt the value of collections.

The RL isn't a monolithic thing. It was revised a couple times. Sadly it become unnecessarily strict. I think at least the functional reprint rule could be easily abolished. It could piss off some powerful collectors, but eventually I think they would accept it as not that harmful to their "investment". Lot of cards are super valuable not because they are playable or are in the RL per se. Just look at Alpha/Beta reprints.

Letting functional reprints to be made could also make people stop bugging about the RL.

Alternatively, just banning most of the playable RL cards from Legacy or even Commander would be also a "solution", but a bad and distasteful one as well.

Sadly, our opinions matter too little in this matter. Even if 99% of the playerbase were in unison against the RL and were actively voicing it would not cause much change to it. People/organizations with real influence over WotC are the ones who pull the string and they favor status quo for RL matter. I don't see much shake up in this matter anytime ever.

Maybe give the second player a free mulligan. It's not really a tangible advantage in some cases as the player may get a good initial hand anyway, but it is some insurance for players going second.

Combo decks usually wanna go first, but with a free mulligan, maybe they would be more incentivized to go second.

Yes, you should be able to ask for welcome decks. You could explain your situation and the store may give you extras. Some game stores may be scummy and charge for that, so avoid these ones. If you find a good LGS that helps you with that (and maybe some locals donate draft shafts and bulk cards, I do occasionally), you could buy booster box from them and organize drafts (well probably online would be cheaper, but you know give and take).

Now, I don't know how highschool handles club activities, so I can't help with that. In university I had a playgroup of 4 ~ 8 people. We had our spot and official time although it wasn't really a club. We occasionally would have drafts and small tournaments with penalties as "prize". Ideally everyone should be on similar spending power. Everyone could contribute for the draft pool and you could discuss on how to share the cards afterwards. Just having a space and time should be more than enough in the beginning.

no comment

Quote from OblivionedOne »

Some people need to not go screaming and crying about this product: everyone knew this would be hard to get. The internet can only handle so much traffic at a time like that. Quit blaming wizards, eBay, your mom... magic players literally are the worst when things don’t go perfectly for them

Network traffic or server capacity (cringes) is not an unknown variable, especially with an entity as large, and as experienced, as eBay. eBay clearly has redundancy and scalability as part of their business model.

And yes, you can absolutely blame eBay and Hasbro for this gaff. WotC/Hasbro chose to use eBay because they figured, correctly, Hasbro servers can't handle the load. eBay clearly has the capacity to handle said load and failed to set aside resources for it. Whether this was a miscommunication from WotC to eBay or an overly exuberant estimation of eBay's configuration remains to be seen. Someone, likely an employee on WotC's side, added more boxes or incorrectly configured the eBay page.

You can blame Magic players (and flippers) for their near insane levels of Black Friday behavior, but you can't blame the community for the screw up we're witnessing from the corporations.

Quote from AlecPyron »

It would be cool if they had Akira Toriyama, Rumiko Takahashi, or Eiichiro Oda draw some of them.

Right? Toriyama would be especially fitting for Sarkhan, considering his track record working with dragons.

Ooh, they should have gotten Ayami Kojima to draw Sorin's art. The current Sorin art does look wicked badass, though.

I never understood why it could not be Scry 2, if you would mulligan to 5.

But it seems like a very nice mulligan rule I hope it works out.

Just got mine in the mail.

Can confirm this was sent to people who also received their mythic edition box (eventually) and who did not contact Hasbro by phone after hours of website issues. I saw some rumors on Reddit regarding who did and did not receive a card. After not receiving anything over the weekend (and reports from other not receiving anything), anything was possible. Looks like it should be everyone who was having website issues that morning?

Quote from AlecPyron »

The whole experience was a mess. I guess that's not much different from past occurrences; however, this was a bit product with a huge shift in terms of distribution.

Maybe they should have let Amazon fill the orders, after all what's the point of ceasing distribution to LGS and letting Amazon do it if Hasbro can't handle a mere spike in traffic?

Every system inside Hasbro website and customer service were overwhelmed. They clearly didn't put any effort in this. They should have expected that as they barely can handle SDCC orders.

I completely agree. Is WotC that out of touch that they didn't see this product being the type to sell out very quickly? A lot of people who believed that they had successfully ordered the product found out that they didn't actually get it, even though their bank account was charged (the charges are later reversed). I had to order the product three times before it finally went through, even though I got a confirmation order the second time through.

It's no longer 2001, and Wizards/Hasbro can't act like they have any justification for these type of website problems, even without the launching of the Mythic edition. There is no excuse for the massive technical problems the site experienced today. They'd better be prepared for the Ravnica Allegiance Mythic Edition. After today, there's no saying that the traffic levels were unexpected.

I tried 6 times, each ended with a "generic error" and no charge to my card. The 7th time it looked like it was working, but then reported it being out of stock. Oh well, I can get 3 boxes of various sets for the same price. Hasbro-WotC really screwed the pooch on this one(shock!).

Quote from Colt47 »

FYI can anyone else confirm that they said that they are working on a non-rotating format for the game? I heard about this from several channels across twitch and youtube recently and if they are, that could explain why they brought back the two best land cycles outside of fetchlands, which I don't think we are ever seeing in this game.

They've said lots of things in a general way. They have no idea what they're going to do. They'd have to create a new format since Kaladesh is as far back as what they've programmed. Arena modern? No thanks.

I hope players who don't have LGSs near them consider grinding instead of paying to play this game. They shouldn't be rewarded for this cheap, Hearthstone imitating, clunky, poorly planned mtg product.

The animations are nice sure, BUT many of them are clunky and poorly timed and have been for multiple releases. They don't seem to care to polish them.
Tapping land is horrible. HORRIBLE. Look at an MTGO stream and how fast that old OLD software taps lands then look at Arena tapping, which is slow and heavy, and tell me they've done a great job. They lessened the 'whack a mole' but didn't get rid of it completely. Autotap should be removed from the game it's trash and players need to learn to play around it (tap partials then let it do the rest when you are color safe). Tapping lands, the most basic thing in MTG is clunky and poorly done. Apply that to the rest of the game.

Currently you buy packs to create a 'collection' that you cannot trade, sell, or dust to move forward. It's a money grab to not let you manipulate or 'own' your collection. Worst decision ever. All they need is an auction house and they'd make 10x the money they're planning to make off this cheaply developed game. They still don't have a plan for 5th copies of cards!!!!!!! So buying packs you get a 5th copy and the old system of a 'vault' progress is still there but HIDDEN. HIDDEN FROM VIEW!!!! Vault progress was a lame system but hiding it without a solution at this point?? Open beta without even a proposed solution to this??? Just wow.

I can't believe they think it's time for open beta. Please don't invest cash in this game. Just grind it if you like it people. Matchmaking in Bo1 is manipulated so you only play decks your deck is 'rated' the same as. What's this rating system you ask? No one knows they won't say. Just be sure to know you will play mirror matches and the same 2-3 types of decks they've 'rated' based on ???. That's the only free play mode of the game. With the crap timer you could PAY to play Bo3 but good luck there as you can get roped (time wasters taking forever with EVERY TURN) and have what should be a max 40 Bo3 into hours. That you paid to play. They still don't have a solution for NoF chaining without a win con since you can't call a judge you get to sit there while they chain without being able to win.

Awesome right?