MTG Salvation

Sioriai, if you play Legacy, I'm typically in there on Tuesdays and/or Thursdays, coincidentally not for the Standard draft that runs on those days. Let me know I'd you ever want to join a game, we'd love to have ya!

@DivineChaos: I find after a mill getting rid of Batterskull, Tarmogoyf, or Knight of the Reliquary using Surgical Extraction (for free) can really help stall an aggro deck's strategy. If anything I would put 2 more in and remove Inquisition.

Or maybe it would be better to put in more artifact creature kill. In any case, this one requires a lot more playtesting. I am having fun using it, which is good!

In any case, the deck all of sudden became rather slow after making my earlier changes. So now I have a balance issue. Yay.

Thanks for your continued feedback.

Well, I don't play at Metro and I don't play in any drafts... So, you may not know me.

Hey Siorai, sounds good! Back in the "old days" (around the time of Revised and Legends) I played a chess deck - BW with Benalish Heroes, Mesa Pegasus, White and Black Knight, Wall of Swords, Serra Angel and Sengir Vampire, etc. Yeah, the simplicity of the game was astounding.

In my playgroup and local meta, I don't see a lot of Emrakul, but Leyline is sideboarded for any eventualities.

Just yesterday, after losing every game against a huge variety of non-top-tier decks, I decided that, since I'm not giving up on the archetype, I've gotta change it up. It seems my problem is not that it needs to be faster, it seems like I need to counter, control, stall, defend, disrupt, and potentially find another win condition (boo!).

So here's what I've been testing, which goldfishes at 5-7 turns.



We'll see how it does in the next few days. If nothing else it will make the deck more fun. As much as I want to make this thing competitive, it has to start out fun, right?

@Ziveeman: I appreciate your response. Though I agree Tarmogoyf is a great card, I think the problem I have with it goes along with your statement of "It allows people to build wacky decks but still have a viable win condition" - it's a single card that changes the way the entire Legacy meta runs. I have major respect for the card, don't get me wrong, I just think it's uninspired to use it in every deck.

@tugbucket: Yeah, I don't mind that combo as much since it's unlikely to mill someone's entire deck instantly. I was using Telemin Performance for a while but could never cast it because either I would win from other milling or die too quickly to use it. Or if a game dragged on long enough it would just get hardcast FoW'd.

In any case, this is what I like about a great community like this. For a game that really helps to have encyclopedic knowledge, it's nice to get great recommendations and overall discussion.

Thanks for the responses everyone. A lot of good information here.

So, summed up I see there could possibly be 4 ways to make this a viable competitive deck archetype:

1. Painter's Servant / Grindstone combo (a given)

2. Run heavier on counters and control, effectively transforming deck into control with mill as win condition - Standstill will help to stall

3. Make it faster - treat it like a burn deck, replace 1 cmc cards with mill and mill Tims

4. Run cards that affect board state more, as to disrupt strategies - creature kill, discard such as Thoughtsieze, Hymn to Tourach, Inquisition of Krozilek

The last one is one I added by my brilliant powers of research and deduction. Could this make it more viable?

And a new question I have now the I have read all of these great responses: blue is supposed to have card advantage in most matchups, so what should be replacing Ponder and Visions of Beyond? It appears that control and/or disrupt might be the better way.

And a small gripe (not nearly big enough to warrant a real complaint): I would never ask for Wizards to ban Tarmogoyf, but it seems to me that at least 3/4 of the "Proven" decks run it in Legacy. That seems a little sad to me and the creativity of deck building is somewhat struck down by the necessity to run 'goyf if you want to have a successful aggro or tempo deck. I'm not saying that my deck can't defeat 'goyf based decks, but I just see them everywhere (especially on MWS where you can play with anything).

Now that the gripe is finished, I can definitely say mill is fun, but maybe that's where it lives. Thanks again everyone for your feedback.

Hey ZATZAi, yeah we just got a brand new MtG-specific store called +EV Games that's totally awesome! Come down and play sometime!

I was playing on Magic Workstation earlier today and my opponent, who was nice and patient (difficult to find on MWS), was very discriminatory against Mill, not because Mill is annoying, but because he thought it was not worth playing in Legacy. After 20 or so matches my deck seems to do pretty well, with probably a 40%+ win rate, without sideboard.

So, my question is: is it possible to play Mill competitively in Legacy? I know the typical Painter's Servant / Grindstone combo, but I refuse to use it because it's boring. Is it the the only way Mill is competitive in this format?

I prefer Legacy due to the large card base and it seems to be the best way to enjoy the game in the long term, as you don't need to desperately keep up with the newest cards; it just takes a nice investment to start playing the format.

For those interested, here is the deck I am using and tuning and re-tuning almost everytime I play:



I'm running into a lot of Zoo, random 'goyf aggro, and Stoneblade. Any advice on how I can make this more competitive or at least more solid? If I don't win within 6 turns then the deck runs out of steam. Thanks all.

Hi everyone, after searching through forums for the past week I think this is the best one for MtG enthusiasts and am glad to find such a great source of information. I've been on again off again for this game since Legends came out and am happy to have picked up the pack a day habit again. Sticking with Legacy and experimenting with Modern.