Hey ya'll, thanks for your thoughts! Again, I just want to stress that this is in no way my creation, although, as I stated in my original post, the madness mechanic has always been my favorite mechanic in Magic since I first started(and upon seeing that we have a potentially mildly competitive modern madness deck, I've been trying to make one work since we first saw S.O.I. spoiled), which just so happened to be in the winter of 2004, right during U/G madness's day in the spotlight as one of the best standard decks in the format at the time. When I put that deck together and proceeded to pretty much go undefeated against all my high school friends who had taught me how to play in the first place, I was in love with the synergistic feel of the madness ability coupled with discard effects; it just felt almost like cheating. The ability to play any and all your creatures with madness during your opponents turn gives control decks untold headaches, but, that old-school U/G madness deck had cards like Wonder, Circular Logic(a completely busted counterspell for such a deck), Quiet Speculation and Deep Analysis to keep the gas coming, etc, etc. Unfortunately, we don't have ideal replacements for all of those cards as there was a ton more synergy in THAT "pile" of commons and uncommons than what we have as available options to us in the modern card pool today. However, that said, this deck here that Tenshi introduced the world to has a good number of strong synergies, and, as with all madness builds, this deck gives control builds a nightmare. That said, megatog201 you are quite right, this build has a REALLY tough time with combo game 1, but most of the board is there to try and shore up that matchup. 4 seizes and 2 brutality's help a lot against scapeshift, ad nauseum(the cages also help here), and also vs control. As far as tron, I agree; that seems to have been the WORST matchup I've tried to play. I've always been a bit partial to Surgical Extraction when boarding against tron, because if you can get one of their tron lands in the GY, then you can completely shut off their game plan. Blood Moon is this lists' best and really ONLY out to tron, so moving some number to the main isn't a terrible idea, as it also hits quite a few other widely-played decks, too. I haven't had TOO rough of a time against combo(outside of Tron) though with the sideboard as it is. Against any decks trying to play a fair/grindy game, this deck has a very high win rate. Death's Shadow variants? This list can make enough tokens constantly to not only chump block a shadow for ever, but even outrace it. Even dredge, because today's dredge plays a lot more of a 'fair' game than it did originally or when compared to old extended dredge or legacy dredge, can have a hard time punching through enough damage or out-racing. Out of all the decks that are in these forums in the modern Tier 1 section, only Tron there have I had any real steady trouble with on a regular basis.
After quite a bit of testing, I'm completely sold on Rally the Peasants as rally has been proving itself as a great finisher, essentially doubling the damage(or more) that the tokens do on an alpha strike.
As of right now, I'm trying this list-
Creatures
4 Cryptbreaker
4 Ruthless Sniper
4 Big Game Hunter
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Grave Scrabbler
3 Voldaren Pariah
Enchantments
4 Zombie Infestation
3 Call the Bloodline
1 Blood Moon
Planeswalkers
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Other Spells
2 Lingering Souls
2 Rally the Peasants
1 Fatal Push
1 Driven // Despair
Land
10 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
I took BOTH of ya'lls advice(as I feel you both posited good arguments), kept in the push(as it's another way other than Ruthless Sniper to deal with creatures early, cheaply, and efficiently) while also putting a blood moon maindeck; the moon's absurdly good in modern and does very little to actually have a negative impact on this deck's own gameplan. I think you both had some good points and constructive tips, however, megatog201, you kept saying 'You' meaning me, almost as though I was championing this deck or something? Or, at least that's how it sounded to me? Correct me if I'm wrong, please! But I am simply trying to get some feedback and ideas/thoughts/new card options on a deck someone else came up with that I rather took a liking to.
Now, I'll say it again. This deck went 5-1 in a MTGO Modern Challenge; a constructed event that draws more competitors than any Grand Prix, Qualifier, Invitational, etc. Those particular tournaments on MTGO draw SO many people, and are, in general, a VERY good way to judge the health and overall state of the format; a deck that is as bad as some posting on this thread seem to think this one is could NOT, by any stretch, even make it into the top 16 of a MTGO Modern Challenge, let alone the top 8 and put up a 5-1 record! I'd also like to point out that, in those videos you watched this deck play in, megatog201, there was almost certainly a TON of mistakes made on the part of the pilot. I've watched every single video on the interwebs now about this deck(there's not a lot yet) from the 3 or 4 deck tech videos, and then the accompanying match videos following 2 or 3 of those deck techs, and in all but the TCGPlayer match videos with the deck, there are several matches that the deck lost in that it otherwise would've won had the pilots not made critical errors(the channelfireball video of Frank Lepore piloting the deck is just painful to watch; the guy clearly doesn't even want to play the deck, and essentially throws 3 of the 4 games he plays in, but even he acknowledges the possible awesomeness of the deck; and also the mtggoldfish replay matches, with seth playing the deck, there's a ton of critical errors made that cost 2 games in those series of matches, as well, although he quickly realizes the potential that the build has and most of seth's errors can be chalked up to not knowing the deck well). In short, just because some of the youtube videos of the deck don't have people just winning nonstop, doesn't mean the deck isn't good, either. We all make blunders when playing from time to time, but, I've seen some utterly dismissive attitudes in the magic community lately and it breaks my heart.
Anyone who cares about us all helping one another become better players, deckbuilders, and people, have any thoughts about Rally the Peasants, Endless Ranks of the Dead, Infernal Tutor, and Liliana's Mastery? This deck gets hellbent quick and often, so the tutor might be good. The rally really seems to shine, but I'm torn about the ranks. Seems like it COULD be good, same for lili's mastery, although on that one, paying 5 for an anthem effect and 2 2/2s seems too highly costed and not quite enough of an impact. I'd also love to hear what any such souls think about using 1 or 2 Undead Warchief as a sort of permanent rally of sorts, giving team +2. I'm not quite clear on whether or not the casting cost reduction offered by the warchief would effect Grave Scrabbler's madness cost or not, but the +2/+1 to zombies would be good...of course, rally does the same effect essentially(at least the +2 power) for 1 less mana, and at instant speed, and potentially twice at that, further pressuring decks using any counterspells, so that very likely is the better play for this particular type of zombie deck as opposed to the Undead Warchief; the chief was just a thought I figured I'd throw out there.
We also have some weird cards like Graf Harvest, Midnight Ritual, Haunted Dead(this one could actually be a thing I think?), From Under the Floorboards, Necromancer's Covenant, Gravecrawler, Gisa's Bidding, Cemetary Reaper, Lord of the Accursed, Death Baron, Ghoulsteed, Plague Belcher, Lord of the Undead, Unbreathing Horde, and tons others that either can make zombie tokens, or abuse the fact that we typically have a bunch of them on the battlefield, even in non-direct angles, such as Wayward Servant. That whole line of thought is why I like how Endless Ranks of the Dead looks. Feel free to share any thoughts you have, but please, word them as positively and constructively as possible for myself as well as everyone else!
-
- Heskatet
- Registered User
-
Member for 12 years, 2 months, and 11 days
Last active Thu, Jul, 29 2021 11:05:27
- 0 Followers
- 462 Total Posts
- 10 Thanks
1
There are always people who want something gone because they dislike to play against it. But that is not a valid argument to ban any card.
@Kathal
Yeah sure meekstone has some advantages instead of bridge but the downsides compared to bridge are huge.
Vigilance negates meekstone completely and affinity for example can just tick up +1/+1 counters and make 1 swing for lethal.
1
1
3x maverick 3x Death and Taxes 3x Lands and so on ( the numbers are just an example) and then play the tournaments and wait which decks come up where, and how often. If then still grixis delver dominates all tournaments you could argue, that something needs to be changed. But even under such circumstances the data isn't 100% correct because each player has a more or less different skill piloting their decks and bad luck or something affect the data as well.
1
Thermopod could be used as sac outlet or SP #5.
Distant melody is a very good card in this deck, it costs U3 but only you can use it instead of Fecundity
could replace Fecundity or serve as copies 5-8 as anyone likes.
If you want to play [card]Battle hymn[card], only play it in a combo centric build, because you need to change your gamestyle with it.
With no mana floating and trying to sac goblins to cast it is a desperate action in my opinion. You need to set up your turn like combo decks do and then go off.
For example: t1 Skirk Prospector(SP)--> t2 Dragon fodder or Mogg war Marshall or krenko's command --> t3 battle hymn into Empty the warrens and keep on chaining.
The idea with murderous redcap and mimic is nice, if you want to do something like that cost reducer and goblin Matron are must haves in my opinion.
In pauper you win with Goblin Warstrike and bushwhacker. warstrike is not modern legal but Burn at the stake can do very bad things. It can kill out of nowhere but has a hard casting cost.
Just a few ideas.
1
Wildfire works and that really good for me so far! Like you say, it is a combo list, but it has so many angles to attack your opponent. I also play Blood moon main, and have the combo and also Ugin. I played against Eldrazi tron and they are far from ecstatic when I blow up the world with wildfire and mostly leave them with mostly nothing. Because I also play ghost quarter just for the reason to take out problem lands. Even if there is a smasher on the board I also have Ensnaring Bridge to shut smasher down. I have answers for so many things in this deck and wildfire is just 1 of them. You have to realise, that Wildfire on T3 or T4 often leads enemies to scoop. It isn't by far a mediocre midrange plan, it is a threat for them locking them out of the game when it resolves along to all the other things we do.
Sorry but that's my opinion to it.
2
and especially not Oath of Druids are of this type of card!
What some people forget/ underestimate is the fact that Oath works every turn if needed instead of S&T or Flash. That's one of the main points for me alongside it is a one card combo, which kind of tutors creatures.(We all know how easy it is to achieve Oath's trigger with Forbidden Orchard and Crop Rotation
1
So this means it is not the same.
And Flash also is not comparable to S&T because it is Instant and means you can go off end of turn of your opponent and don't have to wait till your turn.
1
So he is a clock which is in fact unblockable on attack, but this means he is not blocking anything!
Also if he stays for blocking he isn't anything even close to a Moat. It's a matter of board position. im not impressed if I have 2 Tarmogoyfs with 3/4 an you have 1 TNN. Moat or something does the job better than TNN.(only an example!) So maybe point removal isn't the thing we can do against TNN so why don't we shift to things which kill the combat step? Maybe we are shifting to something like that. What does TNN do against Orim's chant with Kicker? or Ensnaring Bridge or Rest in Peace+ Energy field. I mean we deal with almost every creature based deck which has to attack to win with these cards.
(And when you now say: Which deck plays Orim's Chant main or even Sideboard? Thats your ploblem, thats the same thing to say Bargain isn't that hard because no deck currently played could use it. Thats the problem in this game. For me its a game of fun and challenges. I like the challenge to see a card and develop strategies to win against them and still be competitive against other decks. And personal feelings about shouldn't be a reason to ban cards I think)
Why did people put Oblivion Rings to their deck or Sideboard? To deal with Emrakul because good old StP does nothing against him. Why can't people just say: Ok the good old things don't do the job against this card? What can I do to handle this AND the other creatures as well?
That said, we have 2 options:
-1: We complain about the card because "we can't do anything against it" and try to get him banned.
-2: We can develop strategies, which deal with this sort of decks and eventually pack solutions in our decks which were not optimal but could get the job done.
I say we take option 2. And whats the matter that if we see that TNN truly dominates the format, why can't we just ban it then?
1
Every creature with trample and Power greater than 1 and toughness geater than 4 deals dmg to your opponent. Every flying creature deals dmg even if TNN is in play because it doesn't fly.
So I think there are several ways to deal with it/ or get around it. I played with my affinity against a merfolk deck which played it, and I had no Problems with him. I didn't get him off the board but I played around it without problems (even it was only 2 Games)
Greetings Heskatet