I play in a medium-sized city that has had a card shop of some sort for as long as I have lived here. That is not to say that there was one continuous shop, however. In all, in the last 15 years, there have been six different shops with five different owners that hosted tournaments with prize support.
When the previous shop opened, they attracted people by offering OK prize support. Then, in order to sweeten the deal, the entry fee continued to raise and so did the payout. Over time, however, the prize payout decreased and there was much discontent from the player base.
Enter the new store. Entry fees were jacked up to $8, but the payout was pretty good. Everyone received a mercy pack and prizes were acceptable. The players left the previous store, which refused to sell singles and now attempted to make a hefty profit simply from tournaments, and headed for this new store. All was good.
At last night's FNM, a new prize payout structure was in order. We all paid $8 for entry and there were 12 people playing. The payout was 5-4-2-2 followed by 1 pack for the bottom eight players. I finished third and "won" two packs for $8.
That is a total of 21 packs, which at retail cost $84. The store took in $96 in entry fees.
First, it would seem that the prize payout was shorted at least three packs, even counting them at retail. At many other stores I have played at from time to time in other cities, prize payout is much higher.
Please note that this store does sell singles and has a pretty decent collection, charging full Star City Games prices with an unwillingness to negotiate because of card condition or even for larger purchases. Also, the shop does sell pop and could sell snacks, but choose to let people walk in with pizzas and Tacos instead.
I guess I have a few questions.
1. Can anyone post a prize payout schedule based on the number of people entered in a tournament? Please also provide the entry fee.
2. Is this store being stingy?
3. Is it common for a new store to come in, appease the player base and enjoy great success, then tighten up everything after eliminating the competition in order to maximize profit?
4. Is it worthwhile, after unsuccessfully talking to the shop owner, to buy boxes and simply host our own tournaments in order to prove a point and possibly bring about a return to a more fair payout?
5. Are we all being a bunch of whiners who simply do not understand the economics of shop ownership?
I am seriously looking for answers of everyone's experience. I am especially interested in any shop owners' perspectives including their entry fee and payout structures.
How does Wolf Run White beat Delver? I'll even assume it would run Cavern of Souls. If they go Turn 1 Delver, Turn 3 Geist, it's game over. Day of Judgment will never resolve. There's no instant removal for their swords. Even if Elesh Norn resolves, it won't stay very long, since they will be siding in Phantasmal Images. It just seems way too frail against the hottest deck in the environment.
You need to have ramp turn 2 so you can get off a turn 3 DOJ. That means sometimes mulliganing until you have it.
I feel that if they are countering ramp, then bigger threats and board wipes will resolve. And they aren't putting as much pressure on.
If they are not countering ramp, then we will have the mana to pay for leak. Or they will tap out for Geist, leaving an opening for Day of Judgment.
It is by no means an easy match up, but it is very possible to win. Post board it gets even better.
I took down our FNM last week, beating GW aggro, UW Mageblade, and RG (bad) aggro in Swiss. My loss was to traditional Wolf Run Ramp, which I crush game 1 but have trouble with games 2-3, where I usually lose the turn before I am about to win to a Devil's Play (Divine Deflection, anyone?)
In Top 4, I beat Tempered Steel 2-0 and UB Zombies 2-0.
This deck has carried me to Top 4 or Top 8 all but one time I have played it for the past 6 months. It has literally been that good to me.
As you can see, my sideboard is heavily devoted to rocking Mageblade. I typically bring in the Thruns, Corrosive Gales, and Ancient Grudge. I remove the O-rings, 1 Titan, 1 Solemn, 1 Garruk, and 2 Elesh Norn.
I am considering going back to Beast Within over Oblivion Ring simply for the RG WRR deck. Oblivion Rings are great against Zombies and RDW, but I haven't been losing to Zombies and hardly anyone seems to be playing RDW these days.
I keep thinking I should have traded/sold off this deck a long time ago to get any value from it, but it has been so good to me that I think I might keep playing it until it rotates in October. It seems to fly under the radar, is hard to hate out, and is adaptable to just about anything. Is anyone else having success with it? Can we come to some sort of consensus as to a best list?
So I see all of these decklists flying around, but has anyone posted results from actually playing this? I am interested in running it at my LGS. It just would seem that UW is strictly better with Moorland Haunt and geist, though Brimstone plus snapcaster is intriguning...
I played BU Zombies this week since I loaned my Primeval Titans and Garruks to a friend who was itching to play with his Huntmasters. He 0-2 dropped, I went 3-1 in swiss, got favorable pairings in top and got stomped against BW Tokens in the final. Stomped hard.
To be honest, this deck has a hard time against UW Delver. Moorland Haunt seems to be the thing that gets me most often. Acidic Slime can shine here and honestly, Beast Within is a decent answer as well.
Remember, they only play about 5 counterspells. I will play my bigger threats around Mana Leak if I can, but sometimes we just have to go for it. I don't usually care if they counter my Rampant Growth or Viridian Emissary, as they have one less counter for my Day of Judgment then. Emissary can be good against Geist, but Vapor Snag often wrecks that plan. This is probably the deck's toughest match up since it can beat you in a variety of ways. The worst I can remember is clearing the board and seeming to stabilize at a reasonable amount of life. He end of turns a Spirit Token with Moorland Haunt, untaps, casts Runechanter's Pike and swings for just enough to win (something like 9-10). That sucked.
Whipflare is a solid idea I hadn't considered much because of the light R splash, but I may need to rethink that. This is also a match up where Sphere of the Suns would probably be better.
I'm glad people seem to be enjoying the deck as much as I do.
I do actually run 2-3 Ratchet Bombs in the sideboard. The Phyrexian Rebirth was a test to see how a more broad sweeper would work in the deck. Kind of like Day of Judgment 5-6. It was intended to be similar to Ratchet Bombs with the bonus of leaving a creature when it is finished. It was just something I wanted to try out, especially since it can be cast turns 4-5, depending on the ramp.
I never got to bring it in because of the match ups I was facing.
The Humans match up is tough, but I haven't lost a match against it yet. I mull aggressively into ramp and answers, preferably Viridian Emissary for chump blocking. Between Emissary and Solemn Simulacrum, I am often able to soak up some damage and ramp. Humans really needs to go all out, making them susceptible to board sweepers.
I often win this match up at less than 5 life, and have often stabilized at 1 before managing to win. It definitely is not an easy match up, but Gideons can buy you a bunch of time, chump blockers slow them down, Garruk, Primal Hunter creates tokens that are often better than their creatures, Beast Within/Oblivion Ring can pick off problems, and Humans are susceptible to sweepers. Ratchet Bombs in the past have been great to take care of 4-5 2-drops at a time, but I haven't always run them in the board.
So...
1. Mull agressively to ramp, preferably an Emissary.
2. Protect your life total as best you can.
3. Use spot removal/Gideons/Garruks to buy yourself turns. One turn is huge!
4. Sweep the field and drop a bomb.
5. After all of the carnage, go to plan B and just kill them with an Inkmoth/Kessig Wolf Run.
Anyway, I have been rolling with this thing with a split in the final again. My only loss Friday was to UW Spirits. It is nice to see it put up some results again.
My big concern was with Viridian Emissary, however it is a great card against aggro and easy to board out against control. Sphere of the Suns is clearly a better card against control, though. Emissary is golden against undying creatures since it ramps me up and puts a counter on those critters, making them ripe for a Day of Judgment.
My only match loss in the last few FNMs was to Red Deck Wins. No one had been playing it, so my Celestial Purges came out of the board. Big mistake. The Phyrexian Rebirth was just something I was dinking around with, but they will be coming out along with one Ancient Grudge for at least three Purges.
RDW is a rough matchup. I used to run Oblivion Ring instead of Beast Within. Beast Within quickly won me over by being a permanent answer to pretty much anything. However, with all of the aggro dominating the format, I have lost games due to giving the opponent beast tokens. Oblivion Ring is a permanent answer (more or less) to Chandra's Phoenix, so I might go back to them.
Seriously, this deck has been a blast to play. I am loving it and have split the FNM final the past four I have been at. It punishes random decks, has a lot of game against just about anything, and is not real easy to hate on. If you have the cards, I would suggest giving it a try.
Sorry if this seems like a thread necro, but there has been very little activity on this variation and I have been having very good success with it for the past couple of months at FNM. I do make a couple of non-traditional choices, but nothing that hasn't been discussed here before.
The Emissary is one of the things I am really struggling with. I do understand how good Sphere of the Suns is. It fixes mana with no hitches in the gameplan like an inability to off an Emissary to fetch the desired land. However, Emissarys have saved me on several occasions.
It seems to me that most people are in the Sphere of the Suns camp. I am considering making the switch because it should help my ramp against control decks. However, the lack of Emissary will not allow me to trade with a Stromkirk Noble or force the opponent to waste a burn spell on it. In fact, double Emissary saved my behind in a game against Humans Friday because I managed to go through half my deck before finding a game-ending Day of Judgment (or finding a Primeval Titan for that matter) thanks to some key blocks by the Emissary, Simulacrums, and Gideon Jura. It was a very, very close game 3 after getting run over game 1 for lack of WW to get off the Day of Judgment in my hand. Of course, a Sphere there instead of Emissary might have turned that game 1 in my favor, but I might have had to soak up more damage.
I guess I really have three questions:
1. What are your thoughts on the Emissary and do you run it?
2. I notice some people run just 25 lands when using Spheres. Is this common, or do you think 26 is the proper number?
3. Does Sphere of the Suns aid the control match up? I believe it will, and some control decks seem to give WRR a rough time.
Thanks for your replies. I have really enjoyed reading everything that people contribute on these boards.
I notice no one is using Moan of the Unhallowed. Getting a pair of 2/2 tokens seems OK to me with the flashback being a lategame bonus when there is nothing else to do. Also, has anyone tried Mikaeus? He was a house for me in the sealed prerelease, when I took UBr Zombies to a split in the final.
I play in a medium-sized city that has had a card shop of some sort for as long as I have lived here. That is not to say that there was one continuous shop, however. In all, in the last 15 years, there have been six different shops with five different owners that hosted tournaments with prize support.
When the previous shop opened, they attracted people by offering OK prize support. Then, in order to sweeten the deal, the entry fee continued to raise and so did the payout. Over time, however, the prize payout decreased and there was much discontent from the player base.
Enter the new store. Entry fees were jacked up to $8, but the payout was pretty good. Everyone received a mercy pack and prizes were acceptable. The players left the previous store, which refused to sell singles and now attempted to make a hefty profit simply from tournaments, and headed for this new store. All was good.
At last night's FNM, a new prize payout structure was in order. We all paid $8 for entry and there were 12 people playing. The payout was 5-4-2-2 followed by 1 pack for the bottom eight players. I finished third and "won" two packs for $8.
That is a total of 21 packs, which at retail cost $84. The store took in $96 in entry fees.
First, it would seem that the prize payout was shorted at least three packs, even counting them at retail. At many other stores I have played at from time to time in other cities, prize payout is much higher.
Please note that this store does sell singles and has a pretty decent collection, charging full Star City Games prices with an unwillingness to negotiate because of card condition or even for larger purchases. Also, the shop does sell pop and could sell snacks, but choose to let people walk in with pizzas and Tacos instead.
I guess I have a few questions.
1. Can anyone post a prize payout schedule based on the number of people entered in a tournament? Please also provide the entry fee.
2. Is this store being stingy?
3. Is it common for a new store to come in, appease the player base and enjoy great success, then tighten up everything after eliminating the competition in order to maximize profit?
4. Is it worthwhile, after unsuccessfully talking to the shop owner, to buy boxes and simply host our own tournaments in order to prove a point and possibly bring about a return to a more fair payout?
5. Are we all being a bunch of whiners who simply do not understand the economics of shop ownership?
I am seriously looking for answers of everyone's experience. I am especially interested in any shop owners' perspectives including their entry fee and payout structures.
Thanks for your information!
MUC
MBC
MB Rats
TPPS
All cloudpost variants
MW aggro
Goblins
Burninator
BW Pestilence
and probably some others I don't recall right now.
MTGO username: ascribe
You need to have ramp turn 2 so you can get off a turn 3 DOJ. That means sometimes mulliganing until you have it.
I feel that if they are countering ramp, then bigger threats and board wipes will resolve. And they aren't putting as much pressure on.
If they are not countering ramp, then we will have the mana to pay for leak. Or they will tap out for Geist, leaving an opening for Day of Judgment.
It is by no means an easy match up, but it is very possible to win. Post board it gets even better.
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Rootbound Crag
6 Forest
4 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Acidic Slime
3 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Gideon Jura
4 Rampant Growth
4 Day of Judgment
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Sphere of the Suns
3 Thrun, The Last Troll
3 Corrosive Gale
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
2 Terminus
I took down our FNM last week, beating GW aggro, UW Mageblade, and RG (bad) aggro in Swiss. My loss was to traditional Wolf Run Ramp, which I crush game 1 but have trouble with games 2-3, where I usually lose the turn before I am about to win to a Devil's Play (Divine Deflection, anyone?)
In Top 4, I beat Tempered Steel 2-0 and UB Zombies 2-0.
This deck has carried me to Top 4 or Top 8 all but one time I have played it for the past 6 months. It has literally been that good to me.
As you can see, my sideboard is heavily devoted to rocking Mageblade. I typically bring in the Thruns, Corrosive Gales, and Ancient Grudge. I remove the O-rings, 1 Titan, 1 Solemn, 1 Garruk, and 2 Elesh Norn.
I am considering going back to Beast Within over Oblivion Ring simply for the RG WRR deck. Oblivion Rings are great against Zombies and RDW, but I haven't been losing to Zombies and hardly anyone seems to be playing RDW these days.
I keep thinking I should have traded/sold off this deck a long time ago to get any value from it, but it has been so good to me that I think I might keep playing it until it rotates in October. It seems to fly under the radar, is hard to hate out, and is adaptable to just about anything. Is anyone else having success with it? Can we come to some sort of consensus as to a best list?
To be honest, this deck has a hard time against UW Delver. Moorland Haunt seems to be the thing that gets me most often. Acidic Slime can shine here and honestly, Beast Within is a decent answer as well.
Remember, they only play about 5 counterspells. I will play my bigger threats around Mana Leak if I can, but sometimes we just have to go for it. I don't usually care if they counter my Rampant Growth or Viridian Emissary, as they have one less counter for my Day of Judgment then. Emissary can be good against Geist, but Vapor Snag often wrecks that plan. This is probably the deck's toughest match up since it can beat you in a variety of ways. The worst I can remember is clearing the board and seeming to stabilize at a reasonable amount of life. He end of turns a Spirit Token with Moorland Haunt, untaps, casts Runechanter's Pike and swings for just enough to win (something like 9-10). That sucked.
Whipflare is a solid idea I hadn't considered much because of the light R splash, but I may need to rethink that. This is also a match up where Sphere of the Suns would probably be better.
I'm glad people seem to be enjoying the deck as much as I do.
I never got to bring it in because of the match ups I was facing.
The Humans match up is tough, but I haven't lost a match against it yet. I mull aggressively into ramp and answers, preferably Viridian Emissary for chump blocking. Between Emissary and Solemn Simulacrum, I am often able to soak up some damage and ramp. Humans really needs to go all out, making them susceptible to board sweepers.
I often win this match up at less than 5 life, and have often stabilized at 1 before managing to win. It definitely is not an easy match up, but Gideons can buy you a bunch of time, chump blockers slow them down, Garruk, Primal Hunter creates tokens that are often better than their creatures, Beast Within/Oblivion Ring can pick off problems, and Humans are susceptible to sweepers. Ratchet Bombs in the past have been great to take care of 4-5 2-drops at a time, but I haven't always run them in the board.
So...
1. Mull agressively to ramp, preferably an Emissary.
2. Protect your life total as best you can.
3. Use spot removal/Gideons/Garruks to buy yourself turns. One turn is huge!
4. Sweep the field and drop a bomb.
5. After all of the carnage, go to plan B and just kill them with an Inkmoth/Kessig Wolf Run.
Dallas/Forth Worth SCG Open
Interestingly enough, I have been considering throwing a Mimic Vat into my deck in place of the White Sun's Zenith, which seems like a win-more card. I am also loving the Viridian Emissarys instead of Sphere of the Suns.
One of the more interesting choices is that he did not run a singleton Birds of Paradise, which many builds with Green Sun's Zenith do.
Anyway, I have been rolling with this thing with a split in the final again. My only loss Friday was to UW Spirits. It is nice to see it put up some results again.
4 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Acidic Slime
4 Primeval Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Rampant Growth
3 Beast Within
4 Day of Judgment
1 White Sun's Zenith
3 Gideon Jura
1 Karn Liberated
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Rootbound Crag
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Kessig Wolf Run
6 Forest
4 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Acidic Slime
3 Thrun, The Last Troll
2 Phyrexian Rebirth
My big concern was with Viridian Emissary, however it is a great card against aggro and easy to board out against control. Sphere of the Suns is clearly a better card against control, though. Emissary is golden against undying creatures since it ramps me up and puts a counter on those critters, making them ripe for a Day of Judgment.
My only match loss in the last few FNMs was to Red Deck Wins. No one had been playing it, so my Celestial Purges came out of the board. Big mistake. The Phyrexian Rebirth was just something I was dinking around with, but they will be coming out along with one Ancient Grudge for at least three Purges.
RDW is a rough matchup. I used to run Oblivion Ring instead of Beast Within. Beast Within quickly won me over by being a permanent answer to pretty much anything. However, with all of the aggro dominating the format, I have lost games due to giving the opponent beast tokens. Oblivion Ring is a permanent answer (more or less) to Chandra's Phoenix, so I might go back to them.
Seriously, this deck has been a blast to play. I am loving it and have split the FNM final the past four I have been at. It punishes random decks, has a lot of game against just about anything, and is not real easy to hate on. If you have the cards, I would suggest giving it a try.
Sorry if this seems like a thread necro, but there has been very little activity on this variation and I have been having very good success with it for the past couple of months at FNM. I do make a couple of non-traditional choices, but nothing that hasn't been discussed here before.
For starters, my list:
4 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Acidic Slime
4 Primeval Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Rampant Growth
3 Beast Within
4 Day of Judgment
1 White Sun's Zenith
3 Gideon Jura
1 Karn Liberated
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Rootbound Crag
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Kessig Wolf Run
6 Forest
4 Plains
1 Mountain
My meta consists of a lot of aggro decks, making anything with Day of Judgment and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite very desirable. It also makes Viridian Emissary pretty good against a lot of the field.
The Emissary is one of the things I am really struggling with. I do understand how good Sphere of the Suns is. It fixes mana with no hitches in the gameplan like an inability to off an Emissary to fetch the desired land. However, Emissarys have saved me on several occasions.
It seems to me that most people are in the Sphere of the Suns camp. I am considering making the switch because it should help my ramp against control decks. However, the lack of Emissary will not allow me to trade with a Stromkirk Noble or force the opponent to waste a burn spell on it. In fact, double Emissary saved my behind in a game against Humans Friday because I managed to go through half my deck before finding a game-ending Day of Judgment (or finding a Primeval Titan for that matter) thanks to some key blocks by the Emissary, Simulacrums, and Gideon Jura. It was a very, very close game 3 after getting run over game 1 for lack of WW to get off the Day of Judgment in my hand. Of course, a Sphere there instead of Emissary might have turned that game 1 in my favor, but I might have had to soak up more damage.
I guess I really have three questions:
1. What are your thoughts on the Emissary and do you run it?
2. I notice some people run just 25 lands when using Spheres. Is this common, or do you think 26 is the proper number?
3. Does Sphere of the Suns aid the control match up? I believe it will, and some control decks seem to give WRR a rough time.
Thanks for your replies. I have really enjoyed reading everything that people contribute on these boards.