Oh I forgot to add the mana cost
Isn't the exiling part of the flashback ability?
I need to get those vampires to dig the hole for me.
Let's try this on the X:
alluring landGG
Instant
Target land becomes a 0/4 green creature with defender and reach until end of turn. It can block any number of creatures. It is still a land.
For the confirmation.
If he is indeed what he says, I have to rethink a lot of things that I thought I figured out.
Without confirmation, 1) what's your read on Wessel, 2) how strong is it, and 3) why?
I was convinced PSR was scum because of how she attacked iPot, how she refused to claim and worst of all how she was asking for her own hammer.
She then seemed defeated and went lurking. I was sure.
But then Wessel replaces in and gives good reasons for the refusal to claim and the asking for a hammer by claiming innocent. The only thing left unexplained is the all-out attack on iPot at the very start. (the Lurking is obviously explained by her asking to replace out)
The two options now are 1) Wessel is scum and made a brilliant claim 2) Wessel is what he says he is and the attack on iPot was meant as honest scumhunting.
Both options are very possible, so I want a confirmation.
To answer the question from Wessel from before - I prefer Maokun now simply because as I've kept reading her posts they seemed more and more off. Plus if your ability is true, it's a waste of a lynch today.
I went back to check myself and this is what I can make out:
Worst option here? Wessel, without a doubt.
I don't think IB's been back since Wessel claimed to have an opportunity to unvote, but Rhand sure has.
FoS Rhand, big time!
My vote is staying on Kosakosa. His OMGUS vote on me was merely icing on the cake.
The first reaction to a claim is always 'how can we confirm that'. This one is easy to confirm. What is so suspicious about that? In my eyes the opposite is true: not wanting to confirm Wessel's claim seems suspicious.
Killing a scum would of course be even better, but losing a worthless townie is not better than confirming a claim and losing no one.
That said, KK's OMGUS vote is terrible. His reasoning for calling you out on that post is ok, but the added vote is not. We're at 4 to lynch with 12 players and there are 5 people with votes now. This game is a big mess.
It's anti-town to ask someone for reasons why he thinks he might have found a cop.
When I asked Wessel his reason for asking Misting why Iso might be cop, his answer was that he was counting on Misting's intelligence not to answer that question.
I'm not satisfied with that answer, and have Wessel leaning scum for it.
@Kankennon: The distracting you saw me doing wasn't meant as distracting.
After KCC's entry, I was convinced that a case against Maokun was coming, and at that point he was higher on my list of suspects than PSR. I still think KK is what he claims.
That resulted in me starting the wagon against Maokun, and with KCC disappearing, it turned out I was all alone in that for a long time.
I do agree that KK's flip can reveal a lot of info. If he flips scum, I have a lot of thinking to do. But the same goes for Wessel if he turns out to be what he claims.
The difference is that if Wessel is what he claims, we don't lose a townie. If KK is what he claims, we do.
I'm almost convinced by now that PSR is town too, so if she were scum she'd have hammered without hesitation and little consequence since the enormous traction PSR's wagon had gained and her refusal to claim basically warranted a hammer by anyone except a smart town.
You are calling everyone that is not hammering PSR smart town here.
That's 6 people that can't be scum in your eyes!
I was mostly trying to warn people about the sudden influx of new suspicions and Town's rather worrying tendency to get sidetracked by those instead procuring closure* on the current wagons (which exist for a reason.)
No, and you again misrepresent my words to almost the point of a smear. I was talking about the person who would hammer, and that, under the assumption that PSR is town. It wasn't meant to be a dig to the people already voting.
You're trying to reverse a slip by discrediting me.
As I said I'm not trying to stop anyone from listening to anyone. I could subvert your words in the same way that you subvert mine and say that you are trying to convince us that all 4 replacements are definitely town and their words, indisputable wisdom that must be obeyed. But no... again and hopefully for the last time I'll say this: that analysis wasn't meant to paint the whole group of replacees as scum but to warn town about our own ADD, always ready to jump to the next shiny name drop brought by a new player.
I never said you were saying that the replacements were scum. You keep repeating that, probably as a means to get the other replacements on your wagon. I only said that you were trying to convince town not to listen to their input.
I'd like to see what's your case on me, which none of my accusers except Rhand has deigned to do (and under that light, he's starting to look townie to me.)
Without me posting anything except a vote after the reset inbetween.
Quote from Maokun »
It's all fair, though. My own conviction of your scumness is based on this absurd and dogged protection of KK. As I've come to see it, KK is noob scum and is badly ruining scum's chances of winning in spite of your desperate coaching and attempts to push town's attention to another case.
This was directed at EtR. What happened to not liking it that people point fingers to new suspects?
I also have raised a FoS to EtR for fiercely but completely groundlessly defending KK and apparently coaching him ever so subtly. His latest vote which carries a strong retaliatory flavour hasn't helped diminish my suspicions at all.
After defending your statement that replacements divert town, you throw an extra suspect at Wessel, a replacement.
@ everyone lurking and not voting: Please consider that if this deadline ends, the next one will require only 3 votes, which basically leaves the decision to the scum team alone. If you are town, please make up your mind because after the next deadline, the power of choosing will be taken from our hands.
And then you type this. Fearmongering at its best.
Maokun -Needs to die (I'll come back and outline why later)
?
You announced a case against one of my prime suspects, and now it's nothing more than uncomfortable feelings?
When I finished reading through the thread, that was my strongest feeling. But when I went back to do the actual casing, I found a lot less solid evidence.
And considering his interaction with you here, and the amount of much stronger evidence against you, I'm questioning my initial read even further.
How can you say 'needs to die' when it's only a feeling? You can't put it any bolder than that.
I have yet to see any strong evidence against me. It's all one word and some weak tells from H&S.
Are you saying that if someone thinks PSR might be scum for how he's reacting, said person is not allowed to think that it's also possible that KK and not PSR is the scum in the equation?
He's not pointing at them as 'the scum team'.
IB also just said that PSR and KK are the best lynches of the day.
IB is someone that I also might look at again more closely later for that reason, though that stance (PSR or KK) is quite a bit more understandable than PSR, KK, and Truk as the three reads. -Those 3 were all over each other.
And while your explanation of that not being his scum-team (but rather just individual suspects) could make sense, townies will almost always mention that tension in their reads (as in: I think Player A is scum. I'm also a little suspicious of Player B, but only if Player A flips town). But HaS never makes any mention of this stress between his reads, which is a big part of the reason why I believe they aren't sincere.
PSR, KK and Truk were the ones that needed to be investigated after what they did. I think everyone at that point would be very surprised if all 3 of them flip town. H&S just hadn't made up his mind yet about which one of the 3 was scum. You're reading far too much into this.
I do agree about IB. He's had some posts that were really off.
Are you going to look at Tezz the same way? He made the exact same statement.
So, we can all vote for Wessel and see if he is really what he says he is and then let the mafia kill him off at night (odds are he's telling the truth--that seems like way too strange of a claim to be a mafia bluff), but then we waste the chance then of catching a real scum player.
Why would we vote for wessel for confirmation if odds are that he is telling the truth? -I don't think that is a good use of our lynch.
I disagree. If we don't confirm this claim and just believe him because it's too strange to be a mafia bluff, we hand him the game if he's scum.
A confirmed town player can be of immense value the next days.
Haunted Graveyard
Land (R)
~ comes into play tapped. T: add B to your mana pool.
When a non-token creature goes to a graveyard from play, its owner may pay 2 life.
If that player does, he or she puts a 2/2 black zombie token on the battlefield.
Petty Criminal1(B/U)(B/U)
Creature - Human Thief (U)
If UU was spent in its casting cost, ~ is unblockable.
If BB was spent in its casting cost, ~ has deathtouch.
2/2
Red: First: You voted for me because I was allegedly
trying to discredit the replacees.
Then: You say that you are now voting for me because the way I reacted to that "case". Which basically was trying to show how you were actually the one discrediting me and forcing a negative twist on my words.
Now: You are apparently voting for me because "my posts since then"? Could you please do a post by post of my post since then and point how they are scummy? Thanks.
You keep accusing me of things you do yourself: you're negative twisting my words as much as you say I am twisting yours.
I know what you claim your goal was in your answers. That doesn't make your posts any better.
I'll try to get a post by post ready today.
Blue: Uh? You collected those posts and didn't strike you like a natural progression? After a few horrid posts in which I marked you as scum (as some others did) your interactions with me made me consider the possibility that your case on me, as misguided as it was, had townie intentions and you were singling me out because you honestly thought I was scum. So that's buddying? Keeping one's mind open to the fact that one might be mistaken on an initial appraisal? See how you keep forcing a negative twist in everything I do? Which is, incidentally, what now makes me quite certain of your scumness.
You saying you didn't have a change of mind struck me as odd, and I wanted to show that your posts do show a change of mind. I'm not saying that it isn't a natural progression.
"He's starting to look townie to me" looks much stronger to me than "for a moment considering that you could be just confused but earnest town" or "giving you a few town points".
I do consider the possibility that I am indeed going after the wrong guy, but you keep on giving me reasons to suspect you.
It's little things like the addition of "(as some others did)" in this post that convince me of your scumness. Those are thought-through phrases that are meant to make the reader agree with you.
@ everyone lurking and not voting: Please consider that if this deadline ends, the next one will require only 3 votes, which basically leaves the decision to the scum team alone. If you are town, please make up your mind because after the next deadline, the power of choosing will be taken from our hands.
Fearmongering much? Do you really think there are people lurking that don't realise this? And do you honestly believe that scum will jump on someone with the 3 of them?
When I think about that, my thought process contains the word 'lure' because it describes best what they are doing.
Who are 'they' here? -And why does the word 'lure' (making someone do or say something) describe best what they are doing, rather than what we are doing when we vote someone?
'They' is the scum. My reasoning was that scum wants more claims, and I wanted to prevent that. I was talking about how the word 'lure' popped in my head while thinking what scum would want to do, hence what they are doing.
-Looking back over mao's posts, I'm having the same issue that someone else, I believe it was jd, was having, in that I have lots of uncomfortable feelings, though nothing concrete enough to present as evidence against him. And on the other hand, there is more solid evidence against both Rhand and HaS before him, so I'm leaning towards that being my preferred lynch for the day, unless he can give me an incredibly satisfying answer to the above questions.
For those interested, my reads: Scum
Phoenix: Reasons stated above
Truk: his reasons for suggesting the claim in the first place haven't been solid, and he seems to be willing to change his vote to whomever is currently under suspicion. Leaning Scum
Kosakosa: after it was explained to me I can see why claiming early can be a scumtell. But I also see it as simple inexperience, given that I also didn't understand that such a thing was anti-town behavior, so I'm not going to say he's my top suspect yet until he responds to answer my question above.
These scum reads are simply a list of all the top suspects at the time. -Since these suspects were doing a lot of attacking of each other, the rest of the players here seemed to have been more on one side or the other of these battle lines. And while some players changed opinion, and some players expressed uncertainty at times, I don't believe anyone else suspected all three of these players at the same time, because all three of those players as scum doesn't really make sense with the way they were interacting with each other.
Because of that, I don't feel like these are likely to have been the legitimate reads of a townie, but rather scum wanting to blend in by just going with the popular scum reads, without considering how little sense it made to suspect all of them.
Are you saying that if someone thinks PSR might be scum for how he's reacting, said person is not allowed to think that it's also possible that KK and not PSR is the scum in the equation?
He's not pointing at them as 'the scum team'.
IB also just said that PSR and KK are the best lynches of the day.
Bors, Digger of holes1UB
Legendary creature - Zombie
Whenever a player plays cards from his or her graveyard, that player loses life equal to that card's converted mana cost. t: target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard has flashback ueot. t: you may cast target non-land permanent from your graveyard as though it was in your hand.
2/2
I send Bors to the x to dig out whatever is beneath.
Isn't the exiling part of the flashback ability?
I need to get those vampires to dig the hole for me.
Let's try this on the X:
alluring land GG
Instant
Target land becomes a 0/4 green creature with defender and reach until end of turn. It can block any number of creatures. It is still a land.
Yes, but Misting had good reasoning and was in reality outing no one.
What is this? Is wanting a claim confirmed suddenly a scumtell that needs no other explanation than "we can lynch him now"?
Easy /barn on my wagon?
I was convinced PSR was scum because of how she attacked iPot, how she refused to claim and worst of all how she was asking for her own hammer.
She then seemed defeated and went lurking. I was sure.
But then Wessel replaces in and gives good reasons for the refusal to claim and the asking for a hammer by claiming innocent. The only thing left unexplained is the all-out attack on iPot at the very start. (the Lurking is obviously explained by her asking to replace out)
The two options now are 1) Wessel is scum and made a brilliant claim 2) Wessel is what he says he is and the attack on iPot was meant as honest scumhunting.
Both options are very possible, so I want a confirmation.
The first reaction to a claim is always 'how can we confirm that'. This one is easy to confirm. What is so suspicious about that? In my eyes the opposite is true: not wanting to confirm Wessel's claim seems suspicious.
Killing a scum would of course be even better, but losing a worthless townie is not better than confirming a claim and losing no one.
That said, KK's OMGUS vote is terrible. His reasoning for calling you out on that post is ok, but the added vote is not. We're at 4 to lynch with 12 players and there are 5 people with votes now. This game is a big mess.
When I asked Wessel his reason for asking Misting why Iso might be cop, his answer was that he was counting on Misting's intelligence not to answer that question.
I'm not satisfied with that answer, and have Wessel leaning scum for it.
@Kankennon: The distracting you saw me doing wasn't meant as distracting.
After KCC's entry, I was convinced that a case against Maokun was coming, and at that point he was higher on my list of suspects than PSR. I still think KK is what he claims.
That resulted in me starting the wagon against Maokun, and with KCC disappearing, it turned out I was all alone in that for a long time.
I do agree that KK's flip can reveal a lot of info. If he flips scum, I have a lot of thinking to do. But the same goes for Wessel if he turns out to be what he claims.
The difference is that if Wessel is what he claims, we don't lose a townie. If KK is what he claims, we do.
You are calling everyone that is not hammering PSR smart town here.
That's 6 people that can't be scum in your eyes!
You admit to fearmongering here.
You're trying to reverse a slip by discrediting me.
I never said you were saying that the replacements were scum. You keep repeating that, probably as a means to get the other replacements on your wagon. I only said that you were trying to convince town not to listen to their input.
You went from:
to:
Without me posting anything except a vote after the reset inbetween.
This was directed at EtR. What happened to not liking it that people point fingers to new suspects?
After defending your statement that replacements divert town, you throw an extra suspect at Wessel, a replacement.
And then you type this. Fearmongering at its best.
That's not what I'm saying. The word 'lure' comes from any mindset. It just happened to describe best what I wanted to say.
How can you say 'needs to die' when it's only a feeling? You can't put it any bolder than that.
I have yet to see any strong evidence against me. It's all one word and some weak tells from H&S.
PSR, KK and Truk were the ones that needed to be investigated after what they did. I think everyone at that point would be very surprised if all 3 of them flip town. H&S just hadn't made up his mind yet about which one of the 3 was scum. You're reading far too much into this.
I do agree about IB. He's had some posts that were really off.
Are you going to look at Tezz the same way? He made the exact same statement.
I disagree. If we don't confirm this claim and just believe him because it's too strange to be a mafia bluff, we hand him the game if he's scum.
A confirmed town player can be of immense value the next days.
KCC leans town.
I disagree with most anything he says, but I don't see a scum mindset behind it.
Land (R)
~ comes into play tapped.
T: add B to your mana pool.
When a non-token creature goes to a graveyard from play, its owner may pay 2 life.
If that player does, he or she puts a 2/2 black zombie token on the battlefield.
For the confirmation.
If he is indeed what he says, I have to rethink a lot of things that I thought I figured out.
unvote, vote: Wessel so that his claim can be confirmed.
Creature - Human Thief (U)
If UU was spent in its casting cost, ~ is unblockable.
If BB was spent in its casting cost, ~ has deathtouch.
2/2
Every wizard wants the headmaster dead.
I do like the idea of mass t/s lists because it provides us much-needed content.
You keep accusing me of things you do yourself: you're negative twisting my words as much as you say I am twisting yours.
I know what you claim your goal was in your answers. That doesn't make your posts any better.
I'll try to get a post by post ready today.
You saying you didn't have a change of mind struck me as odd, and I wanted to show that your posts do show a change of mind. I'm not saying that it isn't a natural progression.
"He's starting to look townie to me" looks much stronger to me than "for a moment considering that you could be just confused but earnest town" or "giving you a few town points".
I do consider the possibility that I am indeed going after the wrong guy, but you keep on giving me reasons to suspect you.
It's little things like the addition of "(as some others did)" in this post that convince me of your scumness. Those are thought-through phrases that are meant to make the reader agree with you.
Fearmongering much? Do you really think there are people lurking that don't realise this? And do you honestly believe that scum will jump on someone with the 3 of them?
'They' is the scum. My reasoning was that scum wants more claims, and I wanted to prevent that. I was talking about how the word 'lure' popped in my head while thinking what scum would want to do, hence what they are doing.
What happened to
?
You announced a case against one of my prime suspects, and now it's nothing more than uncomfortable feelings?
Are you saying that if someone thinks PSR might be scum for how he's reacting, said person is not allowed to think that it's also possible that KK and not PSR is the scum in the equation?
He's not pointing at them as 'the scum team'.
IB also just said that PSR and KK are the best lynches of the day.
X usually marks the spot. Let's dig a hole.
Bors, Digger of holes 1UB
Legendary creature - Zombie
Whenever a player plays cards from his or her graveyard, that player loses life equal to that card's converted mana cost.
t: target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard has flashback ueot.
t: you may cast target non-land permanent from your graveyard as though it was in your hand.
2/2
I send Bors to the x to dig out whatever is beneath.