MTG Salvation

Quote from asmallcat »

I wish it wasn't sacrifice for creature (but then it would be insane) - but as is how often is this better than dreadbore? And how often is it worse? I think it's worse a lot more often cause you can't kill the creature you really need to, and while instant speed is nice, I think I'd take confirmed ability to kill the creature/PW I need to rather than get instant speed and the occasional artifact snipe.

Then I think you’d be disappointed to find out that unlike Liliana’s Triumph, this card is a sorcery.

I don’t think it’s terrible. The fact that you can choose the card type means that more often than not, you’ll be hitting the right artifact or planeswalker. But hitting the right creature is far less certain, and as wtwlf123 stated in the other thread, instant speed is very important for edicts.

I feel like people have been burned one too many times by Chainwhirler in standard, because I’m not altogether convinced this is significantly worse than Caryatid. There can’t be more than a tiny handful of cards in cube that sweep this but not Caryatid in early turns. Green is the amongst the best anti-aggro colors in cube anyway, and this gives ramp and beatdown-oriented green decks some much needed overlap.

I can see this sneaking into 540 cubes, particularly ones that support aggressive green decks.

Anyone else reminded of Pack Rat with this? You can cast this on 2 mana and never cast another spell, just activate EOT for fun and profit until your opponent is sufficiently crushed. Granted this isn’t always going to be the correct line; certainty has its upsides over spinning the wheel. But as a whole, this makes your deck instant speed, uncounterable, and flood-proof. And once you get to a certain point in the game, you’re certain to find your finishers within a spin or two. And I haven’t even gotten into the discard synergy, which opens up a whole recursion/reanimator avenue that this can just go nuts with.

I’m a bit concerned this card was a mistake, actually.

Man, that 2-for-1 potential is so tempting, even though I know in reality it might come up like 10% of the time in this format, even if you’re running 3 or more Lilianas.

Maybe that’s enough though? The baseline is a card that is playable but cube-dependent, and this is better in two measurable (if niche) ways.

I like what this card is trying to do, but unless you have an archetype you’re specifically trying to buff I feel like you’d be better served with something like Throne of the High City.

Would Teferi giving all spells flash instead of just sorceries be too busted? Perhaps, but the card seems very strong as is. The play pattern of T3 bounce/draw into T4 flash in Supreme Verdict is going to give people fits, and instant/sorcery hate can be a real nightmare for certain decks. And the Repulse baseline is really not bad at all.

Frankly I feel like we’re halfway towards being able to build a cube just out of ridiculous Azorius cards.

I really want to like this card, but for 6 mana I want a card that is capable of ending the game, and this Liliana does a pretty poor job of that. And as good as that -4 can be, it’s really hard to build back up to it. Maybe in very grindy cubes this is a strong value engine, but I don’t see it making the cut in most.

I always felt like people never gave Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath the respect it deserved, and this is a better card even outside the mana cost. Worship emblem can be a real win condition against certain decks, and a 4 mana Serra with upside is a hell of a floor. Elspeth and Gideon are going to be hard to supplant, but this is pushed very hard.

I would like two rankings of the artifact planeswalkers, please: one based on overall playability, and one based on importance/usefulness to artifact decks.

Dovin, Grand Arbiter
Tezzeret, the Seeker (no Time Vault combo)
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Tezzeret, Artifice Master
Saheeli, the Gifted
Saheeli Rai
Daretti, Ingenius Iconoclast
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Karn, Scion of Urza

Count me in with the “reading is hard” crew. I’m still not quite on board, just because it seems like it will often be hard to find the right window for this. Too early and you risk flipping uncastables, too late and you’re probably better off just with one of Red’s many top-end haymakers.

I suppose it depends on how often your decks fall into a cheaty category, but it might be worth considering that your Gx ramp decks have felt obliged to be married to cheaty cards simply because they haven’t had access to flexible mana sinks like this. Most of the time pure ramp can be inconsistent and a slave to drawing the right payoffs at the right time, but this is a card you can play at basically any point to keep your engine rolling. I’ve been very impressed with it in standard testing so far, and I can’t wait to cube with it.

Also, I don’t think this card and Sneak/NO/etc decks are mutually exclusive. Often those decks will still run plenty of ramp to hard cast their fatties as a backup plan, and I’m sure some of those decks would have room to include something like this as a pure value card.

At last, with this and Meteor Golem I finally have a reasonable selection of Tinker targets!

Do you guys think it’s better than Whisperwood Elemental? That’s the comp that seems most apt to me. Grows faster but has less utility.

Ugh, wish the “land you control could produce” wasn’t there. An upgraded Ulvenwald Tracker could be rather interesting, but that’s mostly all it is, and a quick gander through most cubes reveals far too few ways to get counters on this early.

I think this is going to be an excellent constructed card, and I’m going to try it in peasant. It’s got a decent little baseline, and it demands removal even in the face of a board stall, something that usually only gets said of the most elite aggro cards.