teferi isn't even good in the board what makes you think he will be good mainboard.. spellskite isn't even good it is what you play when you have flex spots and don't know what to put or want extra edge vs burn.
Blue Matchups are already easy for us, teferi is clunky and bad, why play a 5 drop creature that isn't even good vs BGx?? (our only bad matchup)
I don't disagree that Blue matchups are usually slightly favored (although some of the Grixis lists might not be). The card isn't exciting against G/B/x, but I feel pre-board the matchup is pretty play dependent anyway. If you've hit a position where you have 1-2 combo creatures in play and you EoT Teferi, your opponent has to have, and cast, a lot of removal very awkwardly to stay in the game. If your opponent has resolved an early threat, and has been killing all the creatures you play, Teferi won't win you that game, but you probably never win that game anyway.
The main reason I bring this up is personally I think the current meta is pushing towards a lot of very linear combo decks, and I think that the U based combo decks rise to the top there. I want to be the U based combo deck that crushes the other U based combo decks.
Has anyone put any thought/testing into moving Teferi into the main deck of UR Twin? I've been toying with the mana-base and have been testing 2 Caverns + 1 Lighthouse and have been fairly happy.
I feel that it plays out as a super Spellskite against most decks, and gives you an edge in the mirror as well as other blue matchups. Has anyone else done any testing with it?
The second list Mishra, Artificer Prodigy allows you to use Thopter Foundry, Myr Retriever, and Mox Opal to create a lot of Thopters and gain a lot of life, and potentially go infinite if you can also cast a Etherium Sculptor. Its just a second combo which is slightly more clunky, yet arguably more resilient because most of the pieces can be returned from the grave.
I tried a lot to make the artifact creature route work, but I have since switched to a more prison style deck.
That being said, I think you are all trying to play fair with Mishra and Grand Architect. If you're going to play the two together I think you are much better off trying to do broken things.
GP Columbus was basically this decks big breakout tournament after which it kinda petered off then reappeared as a UWR Geist based deck which then eventually just became UWR control. If you look at the coverage there are 3 decks similar to this in the top 8, I just arbitrarily picked one to show an example.
Ball Lightning Helix is not something to ignore. Its a very powerful finisher for any sort of aggro deck, it provides a good hasty creature for potential battalion shenanigans and its absurd in any sort of aggro mirror. At its worst its a very mediocre card against most midrange decks. I likes it.
I don't understand why people are knocking on this card. Its not for an aggressive deck, its a fatty to help you get back into the game. It even comes down on 4. It is a vanilla 6/6 for 4. In B/W. The text is fairly irrelevant. If my opponent is throwing a creature under/into this bus, they can have their 2 life.
Play G/W Aggro, it is the aggro deck that fares best against other aggro decks. It has a bunch of first-strikers and access to better sideboard options. It basically lets you hold up sizable blockers until you can mash your opponent to nothing.
Based on all the flavor surrounding Ravnica, I assume the block is more or less focused on the fact that the Dragon race of Ravnica may not be as dead as people think. I mean supposedly Niv-Mizzet is the only one that survived, but if there are more that are of his power.....
I certainly agree that the Sphere/Star is really good once you start reanimating them, I'm just worried that they are on the side of win more because I really don't have a reason to play them other than their synergy with Mishra himself. I think having 1 mana cantrips which have amazing value late sounds awesome, I'm just afraid to cut back from having a mass of early removal even though they provide insane value late.
Pyrite Spellbomb is a card I had forgotten, and I really like it here because it seems like it is the kind of card I want to be playing. It gives me removal early and possible card advantage late. 2 damage may be just a bit too low, but I think it is definitely worth consideration.
I think I actually do just cut the Thirst for Knowledge and add Chromatic Stars. It seems like they probably do quite a bit more in the deck.
I like the ideas guys. I'll just rattle off a few responses here
Mox Opal: I think the card isn't for this deck because it actually doesn't help me fix much until I already have all the mana I need. Its also not a great topdeck later, but perhaps it would be fine as a 1-of to potentially pull out with Tezzeret.
Academy Ruins: Could be for this deck as a 1-of. I haven't been able to really test this much so I'm not sure if the mana is good enough to allow me to play another colourless land. Chances are it is and the card will make it in.
Ensnaring Bridge: I like the card, but I wonder if it will be all that good considering I will often be holding 2-4 cards in hand I think. Maybe I'm just undervaluing the card and I would have to play with it to see.
Riddlesmith: I don't know if I like this one because I feel it interferes with the plan of land, signet/talisman and t4 something impactful.
Chromatic Star/Chromatic Sphere: I like it, but I wonder if it is too cute. I really like the idea of how much card advantage I get out of it with Mishra out. Maybe I cut back on Thirsts and play a 4th Mishra and use these to get my advantage.
Remand: I really don't think this deck is a combo deck, I think it is a control deck with a potential combo finish. I feel like this pushes it to rely on Tezzeret's ultimate a bit more and I think I want to go more towards using Tezzeret as a very good engine to support everything else going on.
Dispatch/Tidehollow Sculler: I feel like going 4 colour might be a stretch, but I can certainly see how doubling a Sculler can really lock down a game, and I can see Dispatch as a very powerful removal spell, but I don't think I'm hitting Metalcraft until Turn 5 or 6 (although I should have it on t4 or 6 very consistently).
Coalition Relic: is very interesting because it opens up the t4 Wurmcoil plan which seems insane. I'm just afraid of putting too much emphasis on ramp and not having enough/right answers to things.
Thanks for the input so far. I'll just leave the list on the first post the same as an inspiration for more lists like it, but I would love to see other people's stabs at this kind of deck. I really do think this list can go somewhere because Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and Mishra, Artificer Prodigy are two cards that provide a lot of value that other decks in modern can't keep up with.
This whole idea came together as I was looking for old cool build-around-me cards. I had just been looking at the legacy Tezzeret lists and weighing the pros and cons of building a legacy deck.
That's when I ran into Mishra, Artificer Prodigy. I had seen the card before when glossing through Legendary creatures for commander and near immediately forgotten him.
This is my stab at a list, and I hope people can help me improve it. I truly believe a refined version of this list could actually become a very competitive modern deck.
Strengths (Haven't played so this is all reasoned)
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy seems insane. Its a 4/4 for 4 which is respectable, and its text is just pure value.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas is a powerful engine. Being able to sift through your deck at 6 cards a turn (minimum) is unheard of. Creating 5/5 creatures out of mana rocks is good. Getting a 20 life swing for having 5 artifacts in play is gamebreaking.
I have been looking at a similar deck, except I have also jammed in Krenko, Mob Boss and a host of countermagic because you just need to keep them from resolving their big spells in order to win. This deck might need Desperate Ravings but otherwise I'm quite happy.
It doesn't do what you think it does.
I don't disagree that Blue matchups are usually slightly favored (although some of the Grixis lists might not be). The card isn't exciting against G/B/x, but I feel pre-board the matchup is pretty play dependent anyway. If you've hit a position where you have 1-2 combo creatures in play and you EoT Teferi, your opponent has to have, and cast, a lot of removal very awkwardly to stay in the game. If your opponent has resolved an early threat, and has been killing all the creatures you play, Teferi won't win you that game, but you probably never win that game anyway.
The main reason I bring this up is personally I think the current meta is pushing towards a lot of very linear combo decks, and I think that the U based combo decks rise to the top there. I want to be the U based combo deck that crushes the other U based combo decks.
I feel that it plays out as a super Spellskite against most decks, and gives you an edge in the mirror as well as other blue matchups. Has anyone else done any testing with it?
2x Academy Ruins
1x Blood Crypt
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Island
3x Darksteel Citadel
1x Mountain
2x Swamp
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
3x Polluted Delta
2x Watery Grave
Creatures
4x Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
3x Trinket Mage
3x Chromatic Star
3x Dimir Signet
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Relic of Progenitus
4x Talisman of Dominance
2x Thopter Foundry
2x Trading post
1x Chalice of the Void
Spells
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Terminate
Planeswalkers
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Dismember
1x engineered explosives
2x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
4x thoughtseize
2x Vandalblast
I tried a lot to make the artifact creature route work, but I have since switched to a more prison style deck.
That being said, I think you are all trying to play fair with Mishra and Grand Architect. If you're going to play the two together I think you are much better off trying to do broken things.
A very rough list could be something like:
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
4 Grand Architect
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Myr Retriever
1 Laboratory Maniac
Artifacts
4 Staff of Domination
4 Mox Opal
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Ensoul Artifact
Planeswalkers
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
This deck's main goal being get a Staff of Domination in play alongside a Grand Architect, then turning the staff into a creature using either Ensoul Artifact or Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, then creating infinite mana (to be spent on artifacts/activated abilities of artifacts only) and using that to draw your entire deck, using Mox Opals as Lotus Blooms to cast Laboratory Maniac and immediately draw with an empty library. Alternatively using Myr Retrievers to combo with Thopter Foundry or other weird stuff like that.
The main sideboard tech was to bring in a Gifts Ungiven/Unburial Rites package.
I'm sure if you dig through the forums you could find the old lists.
Here is Max Tietze from GP Columbus almost exactly a year ago.
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
2 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
1 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
1 Annul
2 Kor Firewalker
4 Molten Rain
1 Negate
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Smash to Smithereens
2 Spell Pierce
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Twisted Image
GP Columbus was basically this decks big breakout tournament after which it kinda petered off then reappeared as a UWR Geist based deck which then eventually just became UWR control. If you look at the coverage there are 3 decks similar to this in the top 8, I just arbitrarily picked one to show an example.
Or at least that would be my plan.
(Hypersonic is a cloning experiment by the Izzet)
I do believe Academy Ruins belongs in the deck.
I certainly agree that the Sphere/Star is really good once you start reanimating them, I'm just worried that they are on the side of win more because I really don't have a reason to play them other than their synergy with Mishra himself. I think having 1 mana cantrips which have amazing value late sounds awesome, I'm just afraid to cut back from having a mass of early removal even though they provide insane value late.
Pyrite Spellbomb is a card I had forgotten, and I really like it here because it seems like it is the kind of card I want to be playing. It gives me removal early and possible card advantage late. 2 damage may be just a bit too low, but I think it is definitely worth consideration.
I think I actually do just cut the Thirst for Knowledge and add Chromatic Stars. It seems like they probably do quite a bit more in the deck.
Current Iteration:
1x Academy Ruins
1x Blood Crypt
3x Darkslick Shores
2x Darksteel Citadel
2x Island
3x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
2x Mana Leak
2x Spell Snare
Planeswalker (4)
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifact (17)
1x Chalice of the Void
4x Chromatic Star
2x Dimir Signet
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Executioner's Capsule
2x Ratchet Bomb
4x Talisman of Dominance
1x Thopter Foundry
3x Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
2x Solemn Simulacrum
4x Tidehollow Strix
1x Trinket Mage
2x Wurmcoil Engine
Chromatic Star is an all star. How did I ever doubt you.
Mox Opal: I think the card isn't for this deck because it actually doesn't help me fix much until I already have all the mana I need. Its also not a great topdeck later, but perhaps it would be fine as a 1-of to potentially pull out with Tezzeret.
Academy Ruins: Could be for this deck as a 1-of. I haven't been able to really test this much so I'm not sure if the mana is good enough to allow me to play another colourless land. Chances are it is and the card will make it in.
Ensnaring Bridge: I like the card, but I wonder if it will be all that good considering I will often be holding 2-4 cards in hand I think. Maybe I'm just undervaluing the card and I would have to play with it to see.
Riddlesmith: I don't know if I like this one because I feel it interferes with the plan of land, signet/talisman and t4 something impactful.
Chromatic Star/Chromatic Sphere: I like it, but I wonder if it is too cute. I really like the idea of how much card advantage I get out of it with Mishra out. Maybe I cut back on Thirsts and play a 4th Mishra and use these to get my advantage.
Remand: I really don't think this deck is a combo deck, I think it is a control deck with a potential combo finish. I feel like this pushes it to rely on Tezzeret's ultimate a bit more and I think I want to go more towards using Tezzeret as a very good engine to support everything else going on.
Dispatch/Tidehollow Sculler: I feel like going 4 colour might be a stretch, but I can certainly see how doubling a Sculler can really lock down a game, and I can see Dispatch as a very powerful removal spell, but I don't think I'm hitting Metalcraft until Turn 5 or 6 (although I should have it on t4 or 6 very consistently).
Coalition Relic: is very interesting because it opens up the t4 Wurmcoil plan which seems insane. I'm just afraid of putting too much emphasis on ramp and not having enough/right answers to things.
Thanks for the input so far. I'll just leave the list on the first post the same as an inspiration for more lists like it, but I would love to see other people's stabs at this kind of deck. I really do think this list can go somewhere because Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and Mishra, Artificer Prodigy are two cards that provide a lot of value that other decks in modern can't keep up with.
That's when I ran into Mishra, Artificer Prodigy. I had seen the card before when glossing through Legendary creatures for commander and near immediately forgotten him.
That when I mashed 4 Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and 4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas into a deck and started building.
1x Blood Crypt
4x Darkslick Shores
2x Darksteel Citadel
2x Island
3x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
Instants
2x Mana Leak
3x Spell Snare
1x Terminate
3x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Dimir Signet
3x Executioner's Capsule
2x Ratchet Bomb
4x Talisman of Dominance
1x Thopter Foundry
Creatures
3x Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
2x Solemn Simulacrum
4x Tidehollow Strix
2x Wurmcoil Engine
Planeswalkers
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Damnation
4x Duress
2x Pyroclasm
3x Blood Moon
2x Relic of Progenitus
This is my stab at a list, and I hope people can help me improve it. I truly believe a refined version of this list could actually become a very competitive modern deck.
Strengths (Haven't played so this is all reasoned)
Weaknesses
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Steam Vents
4 Izzet Guildgate
6 Mountain
2 Island
Creatures: 14
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Guttersnipe
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Krenko, Mob Boss
2 Annihilating Fire
2 Dissipate
4 Izzet Charm
2 Negate
2 Searing Spear
4 Think Twice
4 Krenko's Command
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Chandra, the Firebrand