So, the exciting new tech is painsmith and some different equipment. Painsmith gives a creature +2/+0 and death touch when an Artifact spell is cast. There are 23 artifacts in this deck, with the potential for multiple buffs from 2 painsmiths. This can let me put through a lot of damage that is costly to block, and downright dangerous, as I can allocate the damage after blockers have been declared. The body is also an aggressive 2 power beater when I need it to be and it carries equipment well. Consider that!
The new equipment has me excited, but needs some explaining:
- Mox opal is part of any nut draw and provides crazy acceleration and mana fixing. It's possible that the optimal number is less than 4 though.
- infiltration lens is another cheap Artifact to sacrifice, but is subtly important - opponents are going to block key creatures like wardrivers and signal pests, so for 1 mana this can regularly become a card advantage engine.
- swiftfoot boots allows me to get my battle cry creatures into play a turn faster, and the hex proof can be quite valuable.
- viridian claw is aggressively costed. For the same 3 mana as darksteel axe I get a little less damage, but also first strike. Consider first strike with all the anthems and the painsmith's ability...it's also only 1 to move around, so it's easier to swing with a flyer then move it to block with someone else.
Gravepurge is still awesome. It has terrific synergy with painsmith, because recycling artifacts is a lot of extra damage.
The sideboard worked really well in the tournament, although it is possible that act of aggression is a little redundant with the black removal. I'm not sure. Act is just so good against ramp on turn 6 or 7 after you have been beating them down. Arc trail is great, though given how the deck looks, 1 or 2 whip flare may be possible.
Now, something I have given a lot of thought to, is switching goblin gavaleer for the wardriver. Consider this: gavaleer costs 1 less, so he can equip any of my 3 new items for the same mana output. He will then get +2 to go with his trample. If he holds the claw, that's a 4 power first striker. What if a painsmith buffs him then? 6 power trampling death touch? Youch! Taking gavaleer also removes the need for me to have double red on two, and also means I can more reliably play 2 1-drops on turn 2.
A little too much equipment. Pike is a must as a two-of, then pick either two of war and peace or body and mind, put the other two in your sideboard. I would put the body and mind in the sideboard and add 1 x jace, memory adept and 1 x consecrated sphinx in your sideboard for the control matchups.
Your sideboard is pretty horrid. You're an aggro-control deck. Ratchet bomb is not good in your deck, it's wont work against tokens if you have a flipped delver, and your playing all 1 and 2 drops where it is most effective just drop them, U/W Delver doesn't need sweepers and you shouldn't either.
Focus on what makes black, well, black! Sideboard curse of death's hold for deliver mirror. Get 1-2 doom blades + go for the throat main. You can actually kill a resolved fatty, so you're not in the same rush as a normal delver deck. Surgical extraction and sever the bloodline ARE YOUR FRIENDS.
You probably don't need 8x permission main deck, 5x is plenty, 4x mana leak and dissipates the go. Snapcasters can greatly increase that if you need it. Vapor snag should just be black removal (in UR Delver, they play galvanic/shock/incinerate instead of snag).
Bloodline keeper may be viable sideboard tech. Despise, Liliana, Praetor's Grasp or Gravepurge might also be worthwhile (because you're playing creature light).
@ Drowning - yeah, I don't sweat SWaP so much, I have a lot of colourless guys to block with and black removal, so I can work around it pretty comfortably, especially from game 2 onwards.
@ maximumsquid - can you link me? that sounds really interesting!
Whipflare would seem to be VERY playable, ill try it. Beserker is our best two drop. Im playing more of an artifact tribe, but would he be better than wardriver? Hard to say. This list doesnt have room for the normal tricks to ensure bloodthirst, and you might lose a bit from not having the second battlecry. I don't think he is anyworse than Wardriver in this list, but probably not any better either - you get a lot out of the +1/+0.
Porcelain legionnair fills the same spot - the strength of the legionnaire in my mind is the ability to ensure a win when racing - the enemy cant block him and he can stop any attacker, so you have a lot of control. I just want to race with my list, so a lot of that advantage is lost, and I will get more damage in the long run out of the wardriver (due to battlecry) than I will form the legionnaire.
I ran curse of stalked prey for a while, and it can form part of a lot of nut draws, but if you're not playing it on turn two, it's actively bad. More guys gives you pressure whenever they come out and synergize better with gravepurge (which is awesome btw).
Ichor wellspring just seems so slow - you can't rebirth it until turn 3 at best.
Slag fiend was so-so. In games you're winning he does nothing, in games you're losing, maybe he can make a difference, but if they can just remove him, it is a bit pointless.
Wardriver and signal pest are the best creatures - hovermyr is on my mind now. Piston sledge may also be very powerful, you can sac cheap artifacts for a huge power boost. Artifacts shouldn't be a huge concern - other than sword of war and peace they can just be too slow.
I'll think a bit more and see what I can come up with.
Are there any other synergies that people can think of? I'm thinking along the lines of embersmith or crimson mage. Piston sledge also looks very playable. Scrapyard salvo?
Splashing black can take out the the proof guys. The green beaters are hard to remove, but they don't match us for clock unless you trade with them - a strangleroot Geist needs 10 hits, a stromkirk noble needs 6. Stormblood beserker is a 3/3 for 2 etc. I would just work on racing instead of trading.
Hi guys, I played in a MTGO daily yesterday with a variant list I have been working on and wanted to share my experiences. I played with a RB Kuldotha style list:
The major innovation for me was gravepurge as a post-sweeper counter, slag fiend as a soft counter and hex parasite for planeswalkers. Infiltration lens was interesting, but should probably be a darksteel axe or doom blade.
My games were:
Round 1: Haunted Humans with crusaders, hero of bladehold, oblivion ring, honour and sword of war and peace. In game one, I went first and had memnite into rebirth turn one, followed my another memnite, pest and skirge on turn two. He conceded pretty quickly. Game two, I brought in my removal and arc trail, taking out hex parasite and panic spellbomb. His draw was champion of the parish into honour into crusader into sword of war and peace. I had a rebirth, some flayerhusks and a wardriver. We raced, and due to me having an empty hand, it was close until I made the mistake of forgetting that vault skirge is black and can't block the mirran crusader. I had fatal on the board...game 3 was similar to game 2 - I had to mulligan to 5 to get land (on the play), quickly emptied my hand and curved into nothing. He curved well and ran me over.
Result: 1-2
Round 2: this time it was U/W delver (stalker with equipment). I kept a one lander on the play, but by turn 4 I still hadn't drawn a second land, but had three wardrivers in my hand. I lost to a Geist with a sword of war and peace. I brought in arc trail for hex parasite, and swapped the spellbombs. I had to mulligan to 5 for land, but was able to go skirge into pest and wardriver, while clearing out two delvers with an arc trail. A Geist with pike threatened to race me, but a contested warzone game me enough damage to get there. In game 3, I had to mulligan to 4 for land. I lost badly.
Result: 1-2
Round 3: wolf Run Ramp with huntmaster, thrun, big garruk but no inferno titans. He drops a bird that I blast, then goes rampant into sphere. I have rebirth off of chimeric mass, with a hex parasite to take the charges off of the sphere. He misses a land drop and I add a husk and a wardriver. Big garruk comes down, makes a token and gets zapped by the parasite. Contested warzone and a metalcraft galvanic gives me fatal. In game two, I opted for removal and act of aggression instead of spellbomb and infiltration lens and hex parasite. He starts a bit slower, with only rampant growth early. I don't have much either, ending up with 5 land, pest and skirge out. He ends up with three huntmasters out, while I start drawing into wardrivers for three turns. Eventually he draws a primeval titan and sets up the air attack. I cast act of aggression, drop a warzone and sweep with 5 +1/+0 charges active.
Result: 2-0
Round 4: U/W again. I open with double memnite and skirge against two delvers that flip on turn three. He races, but I draw a galvanic and then a chimeric mass for 4, winning around turn 8. Game 2 is much slower, with him not flipping, but slowing me down with snap caster Mage and mana leak. Eventually I draw a slag fiend for a 5/5. Arc trail wipes his board and he forced to make spirits and block while I add attackers. A second fiend and another arc trail end it.
Result: 2-0
I ended up 6-4 for games and 2-2 for matches. Infiltration lens was kinda rubbish. Splashing black for removal and gravepurge seems strong, but I never got the opportunity to use it (it seems good post sweeper right?). The other alternative is to splash green and use lead the stampede, in which case I would want more slag fiends.
Definitely going to get rid of infiltration lens. I think darksteel axe or doom blade would be better. The axe works well with the pests or vault skirge, while doom blade could be a nice surprise. I would rather Mox opal than chimeric mass, but what can you do.
I'm also considering play with hovermyr, flying damage is very valuable, and he would give me a small advantage in races.
All feedback welcome, I hope that you enjoyed the read!
I think you're right regarding hellrider - chandra's phoenix is likely pushing it already.
Regarding the inkmoth nexus, they're more of a win condition if curse, flayerhusk or bonehoard is in play. Otherwise its not much, but they can still set-off metalcraft.
Thanks guys. I'm going to experiment with taking out brimstone volley and a Phoenix, then adding 4 immolating soul eaters. The panic spellbombs should become flayerhusk + 1 bonehoard.
The souleaters add another win condition and are very playable post sweeper (whereas most of my other creatures are not good then). They're also another artifact for metal craft. The bonehoard is also a post sweeper play.
Adding 1 Hellrider might be good as well, it adds more damage directed at the player, as well as a hasted beater.
My name is James. I have been playing MTG for about 3 weeks. Im having a great time, learning the rules quickly and I want to build my first somewhat budget deck. I am really drawn to playing mono-red (perhaps with a splash of something else later), and while I appreciate that many think RDW is very straight forward and beginner friendly, I am quickly learning that even in seemingly simple positions, there are MORE correct plays. I am reading everything from Patrick Sullivan I can find!
I have looked at and tried the traditional RDW lists and have not really enjoyed them that much (been very unskilled no doubt matters). I would love to play a mid-range board control Koth deck (keep the board clear, beatdown with Koth until getting the emblem, then ride that to victory), but thats a little expensive now, and im not sure that Koth will survive the rotation at the end of the year (please do correct me if I am wrong, I am not completely certain of how rotation works).
I have some cards, and have been told that the boosters I have opened have been pretty good (I already have 3 inkmoth nexus and a chandra's phoenix). A local store has some players that have been really helpful, so I have been able to acquire some red cards at pretty good prices.
Anyway, the list (sorry about the format, if a mod can edit or if someone can explain the tags, ill change it):
Some thoughts:
- the deck is reasonably cheap to acquire (less than $50 with what I already have)
- I have a lot of evasion amongst my creatures (flyers mostly). This can be augmented by the panic spellbombs, which can also provide me with a little more gas.
- the inkmoth probably won't poison anyone to death, but who knows - they interact well with the curse of stalked prey, and can turn on metalcraft for galvanic blast.
- the burn that I do have should be very efficient in this deck (well I think so). Curse should force the opponent to trade aggressively (or my creatures get big) which will turn on morbid for brimstone. All the artifacts (16 of them + 4 inkmoth nexus) can turn on metalcraft for galvanic.
- im not sold 100% on chandra's phoenix, but it has rebirth, haste and flying (ok, you guys all know that) - my burn all goes to the opponent anyway, so if I lose them they can come right back, and when they drop they swing for damage right away (and can then get bigger).
- I don't want to be burning creatures (metalcraft galvanic and morbid brimstone are much better at burning out the opponent), so the spellbombs are to deny key blockers (letting my creatures get bigger as well). As much as possible, I have gone for creatures with evasion, so that I can get in a lot more damage against other creature heavy lists.
- I will typically hold the contested warzone back to drop and activate for the coup de gras - its too risky to just leave it in hand and doing nothing - so I want to activate it for the final necessary 3-4 damage boost.
Great to be here, im under the same username on MTGO, so feel free to hit me up!
Thanks guys!
Moved to the Budget thread. Also, edited for deck tags. Check this thread for info on how to use these.
-Sene
2 contested warzone
4 dragonskull summit
10 mountain
4 goblin wardriver
4 memnite
4 painsmith
4 signal pest
4 vault skirge
2 flayerhusk
1 infiltration lens
1 swiftfoot boots
1 viridian claw
4 Mox opal
4 galvanic blast
1 gravepurge
4 kuldotha rebirth
3 act of aggression
4 arc trail
1 doom blade
2 go for the throat
3 gravepurge
2 nihil spellbomb
So, the exciting new tech is painsmith and some different equipment. Painsmith gives a creature +2/+0 and death touch when an Artifact spell is cast. There are 23 artifacts in this deck, with the potential for multiple buffs from 2 painsmiths. This can let me put through a lot of damage that is costly to block, and downright dangerous, as I can allocate the damage after blockers have been declared. The body is also an aggressive 2 power beater when I need it to be and it carries equipment well. Consider that!
The new equipment has me excited, but needs some explaining:
- Mox opal is part of any nut draw and provides crazy acceleration and mana fixing. It's possible that the optimal number is less than 4 though.
- infiltration lens is another cheap Artifact to sacrifice, but is subtly important - opponents are going to block key creatures like wardrivers and signal pests, so for 1 mana this can regularly become a card advantage engine.
- swiftfoot boots allows me to get my battle cry creatures into play a turn faster, and the hex proof can be quite valuable.
- viridian claw is aggressively costed. For the same 3 mana as darksteel axe I get a little less damage, but also first strike. Consider first strike with all the anthems and the painsmith's ability...it's also only 1 to move around, so it's easier to swing with a flyer then move it to block with someone else.
Gravepurge is still awesome. It has terrific synergy with painsmith, because recycling artifacts is a lot of extra damage.
The sideboard worked really well in the tournament, although it is possible that act of aggression is a little redundant with the black removal. I'm not sure. Act is just so good against ramp on turn 6 or 7 after you have been beating them down. Arc trail is great, though given how the deck looks, 1 or 2 whip flare may be possible.
Now, something I have given a lot of thought to, is switching goblin gavaleer for the wardriver. Consider this: gavaleer costs 1 less, so he can equip any of my 3 new items for the same mana output. He will then get +2 to go with his trample. If he holds the claw, that's a 4 power first striker. What if a painsmith buffs him then? 6 power trampling death touch? Youch! Taking gavaleer also removes the need for me to have double red on two, and also means I can more reliably play 2 1-drops on turn 2.
Thoughts? I will be playing it in a Daily ASAP.
Your sideboard is pretty horrid. You're an aggro-control deck. Ratchet bomb is not good in your deck, it's wont work against tokens if you have a flipped delver, and your playing all 1 and 2 drops where it is most effective
Focus on what makes black, well, black! Sideboard curse of death's hold for deliver mirror. Get 1-2 doom blades + go for the throat main. You can actually kill a resolved fatty, so you're not in the same rush as a normal delver deck. Surgical extraction and sever the bloodline ARE YOUR FRIENDS.
You probably don't need 8x permission main deck, 5x is plenty, 4x mana leak and dissipates the go. Snapcasters can greatly increase that if you need it. Vapor snag should just be black removal (in UR Delver, they play galvanic/shock/incinerate instead of snag).
Bloodline keeper may be viable sideboard tech. Despise, Liliana, Praetor's Grasp or Gravepurge might also be worthwhile (because you're playing creature light).
You need to make better use of black.
@ Drowning - yeah, I don't sweat SWaP so much, I have a lot of colourless guys to block with and black removal, so I can work around it pretty comfortably, especially from game 2 onwards.
@ maximumsquid - can you link me? that sounds really interesting!
Whipflare would seem to be VERY playable, ill try it. Beserker is our best two drop. Im playing more of an artifact tribe, but would he be better than wardriver? Hard to say. This list doesnt have room for the normal tricks to ensure bloodthirst, and you might lose a bit from not having the second battlecry. I don't think he is anyworse than Wardriver in this list, but probably not any better either - you get a lot out of the +1/+0.
Porcelain legionnair fills the same spot - the strength of the legionnaire in my mind is the ability to ensure a win when racing - the enemy cant block him and he can stop any attacker, so you have a lot of control. I just want to race with my list, so a lot of that advantage is lost, and I will get more damage in the long run out of the wardriver (due to battlecry) than I will form the legionnaire.
I ran curse of stalked prey for a while, and it can form part of a lot of nut draws, but if you're not playing it on turn two, it's actively bad. More guys gives you pressure whenever they come out and synergize better with gravepurge (which is awesome btw).
Ichor wellspring just seems so slow - you can't rebirth it until turn 3 at best.
Slag fiend was so-so. In games you're winning he does nothing, in games you're losing, maybe he can make a difference, but if they can just remove him, it is a bit pointless.
Wardriver and signal pest are the best creatures - hovermyr is on my mind now. Piston sledge may also be very powerful, you can sac cheap artifacts for a huge power boost. Artifacts shouldn't be a huge concern - other than sword of war and peace they can just be too slow.
I'll think a bit more and see what I can come up with.
2 contested warzone
2 dragonskull summit
12 mountain
4 memnite
4 goblin wardriver
4 hex parasite
4 signal pest
2 slag fiend
4 vault skirge
4 flayerhusk
1 infiltration lens
2 panic spellbomb
4 galvanic blast
1 gravepurge
4 kuldotha rebirth
3 act of aggression
4 arc trail
1 doom blade
2 go for the throat
3 grave purge
2 nihil spellbomb
The major innovation for me was gravepurge as a post-sweeper counter, slag fiend as a soft counter and hex parasite for planeswalkers. Infiltration lens was interesting, but should probably be a darksteel axe or doom blade.
My games were:
Round 1: Haunted Humans with crusaders, hero of bladehold, oblivion ring, honour and sword of war and peace. In game one, I went first and had memnite into rebirth turn one, followed my another memnite, pest and skirge on turn two. He conceded pretty quickly. Game two, I brought in my removal and arc trail, taking out hex parasite and panic spellbomb. His draw was champion of the parish into honour into crusader into sword of war and peace. I had a rebirth, some flayerhusks and a wardriver. We raced, and due to me having an empty hand, it was close until I made the mistake of forgetting that vault skirge is black and can't block the mirran crusader. I had fatal on the board...game 3 was similar to game 2 - I had to mulligan to 5 to get land (on the play), quickly emptied my hand and curved into nothing. He curved well and ran me over.
Result: 1-2
Round 2: this time it was U/W delver (stalker with equipment). I kept a one lander on the play, but by turn 4 I still hadn't drawn a second land, but had three wardrivers in my hand. I lost to a Geist with a sword of war and peace. I brought in arc trail for hex parasite, and swapped the spellbombs. I had to mulligan to 5 for land, but was able to go skirge into pest and wardriver, while clearing out two delvers with an arc trail. A Geist with pike threatened to race me, but a contested warzone game me enough damage to get there. In game 3, I had to mulligan to 4 for land. I lost badly.
Result: 1-2
Round 3: wolf Run Ramp with huntmaster, thrun, big garruk but no inferno titans. He drops a bird that I blast, then goes rampant into sphere. I have rebirth off of chimeric mass, with a hex parasite to take the charges off of the sphere. He misses a land drop and I add a husk and a wardriver. Big garruk comes down, makes a token and gets zapped by the parasite. Contested warzone and a metalcraft galvanic gives me fatal. In game two, I opted for removal and act of aggression instead of spellbomb and infiltration lens and hex parasite. He starts a bit slower, with only rampant growth early. I don't have much either, ending up with 5 land, pest and skirge out. He ends up with three huntmasters out, while I start drawing into wardrivers for three turns. Eventually he draws a primeval titan and sets up the air attack. I cast act of aggression, drop a warzone and sweep with 5 +1/+0 charges active.
Result: 2-0
Round 4: U/W again. I open with double memnite and skirge against two delvers that flip on turn three. He races, but I draw a galvanic and then a chimeric mass for 4, winning around turn 8. Game 2 is much slower, with him not flipping, but slowing me down with snap caster Mage and mana leak. Eventually I draw a slag fiend for a 5/5. Arc trail wipes his board and he forced to make spirits and block while I add attackers. A second fiend and another arc trail end it.
Result: 2-0
I ended up 6-4 for games and 2-2 for matches. Infiltration lens was kinda rubbish. Splashing black for removal and gravepurge seems strong, but I never got the opportunity to use it (it seems good post sweeper right?). The other alternative is to splash green and use lead the stampede, in which case I would want more slag fiends.
Definitely going to get rid of infiltration lens. I think darksteel axe or doom blade would be better. The axe works well with the pests or vault skirge, while doom blade could be a nice surprise. I would rather Mox opal than chimeric mass, but what can you do.
I'm also considering play with hovermyr, flying damage is very valuable, and he would give me a small advantage in races.
All feedback welcome, I hope that you enjoyed the read!
Regarding the inkmoth nexus, they're more of a win condition if curse, flayerhusk or bonehoard is in play. Otherwise its not much, but they can still set-off metalcraft.
The souleaters add another win condition and are very playable post sweeper (whereas most of my other creatures are not good then). They're also another artifact for metal craft. The bonehoard is also a post sweeper play.
Adding 1 Hellrider might be good as well, it adds more damage directed at the player, as well as a hasted beater.
This brings the list to:
4 inkmoth nexus
1 contested warzone
4 memnite
4 signal pest
4 vault skirge
4 stromkirk noble
4 immolating souleater
3 chandra's phoenix
1 hellrider
1 bonehoard
4 curse of stalked prey
4 galvanic blast
4 kuldotha rebirth
The inkmoths, souleaters, phoenix and bonehoard give me some post sweeper play. Metalcraft galvanic blast is an extra win condition.
If I can get it easily enough, I would drop 1 mountain for 1 Mox opal.
My name is James. I have been playing MTG for about 3 weeks. Im having a great time, learning the rules quickly and I want to build my first somewhat budget deck. I am really drawn to playing mono-red (perhaps with a splash of something else later), and while I appreciate that many think RDW is very straight forward and beginner friendly, I am quickly learning that even in seemingly simple positions, there are MORE correct plays. I am reading everything from Patrick Sullivan I can find!
I have looked at and tried the traditional RDW lists and have not really enjoyed them that much (been very unskilled no doubt matters). I would love to play a mid-range board control Koth deck (keep the board clear, beatdown with Koth until getting the emblem, then ride that to victory), but thats a little expensive now, and im not sure that Koth will survive the rotation at the end of the year (please do correct me if I am wrong, I am not completely certain of how rotation works).
I have some cards, and have been told that the boosters I have opened have been pretty good (I already have 3 inkmoth nexus and a chandra's phoenix). A local store has some players that have been really helpful, so I have been able to acquire some red cards at pretty good prices.
Anyway, the list (sorry about the format, if a mod can edit or if someone can explain the tags, ill change it):
16 Mountain
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Contested Warzone
CREATURES
4 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
4 Signal Pest
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Panic Spellbomb
SPELLS
4 Curse of Stalked Prey
4 Kuldotha Rebirth
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Brimstone Volley
Some thoughts:
- the deck is reasonably cheap to acquire (less than $50 with what I already have)
- I have a lot of evasion amongst my creatures (flyers mostly). This can be augmented by the panic spellbombs, which can also provide me with a little more gas.
- the inkmoth probably won't poison anyone to death, but who knows - they interact well with the curse of stalked prey, and can turn on metalcraft for galvanic blast.
- the burn that I do have should be very efficient in this deck (well I think so). Curse should force the opponent to trade aggressively (or my creatures get big) which will turn on morbid for brimstone. All the artifacts (16 of them + 4 inkmoth nexus) can turn on metalcraft for galvanic.
- im not sold 100% on chandra's phoenix, but it has rebirth, haste and flying (ok, you guys all know that) - my burn all goes to the opponent anyway, so if I lose them they can come right back, and when they drop they swing for damage right away (and can then get bigger).
- I don't want to be burning creatures (metalcraft galvanic and morbid brimstone are much better at burning out the opponent), so the spellbombs are to deny key blockers (letting my creatures get bigger as well). As much as possible, I have gone for creatures with evasion, so that I can get in a lot more damage against other creature heavy lists.
- I will typically hold the contested warzone back to drop and activate for the coup de gras - its too risky to just leave it in hand and doing nothing - so I want to activate it for the final necessary 3-4 damage boost.
Great to be here, im under the same username on MTGO, so feel free to hit me up!
Thanks guys!
Moved to the Budget thread. Also, edited for deck tags. Check this thread for info on how to use these.
-Sene