The deck creation thread has filled up with quite a few "mill" posts, but as far as I can tell my post best suits this thread!
For some reason I've been extremely reluctant to veer away from creatureless mill, but this list is really nice and gives me reason to believe the aggro mill strategy might be the best way to go.
Also, if the pilot of this deck reads these forums please comment on card/SB choices and what decks you faced during the daily and how the different matchups went. Much appreciated!!
This deck 3-1'd a Daily this week. I think it's pretty cool. I really like Boros Charm, not only to dome your opponent but as a way to protect Scepter. Any thoughts?
In the front page it says you can cast archive trap after surgicaling or extirpating an opponent, but I think it's wrong: it's you who searches your opponent's library for the remaining copies of the chosen card.
Maybe that should be fixed so no one makes this mistake at a tournament!!
That is correct. Surgical does not trigger Archive Trap
As I see it Ensnaring Bridge is a worse card than both Infest and Damnation in far too many matchups. Exalted, Bloodrush, Tokens and Elf Beatdown can all play around Ensnaring Bridge, but they have to commit for that. A turn 3 Infest or a turn 4 Damnation against any creature based deck will most likely give you enough time to mill those pesky last 20 cards or so.
I'll post the list I'm using as soon as I get home.
I like your list a lot. It seems really well thought out and with definite purpose. I can't determine if Mesmeric Orb is better than Hedron Crab. I also really like Deathrite Shaman, if for no other reason than the ramp.
Do you find 20 lands problematic at all? Especially with Damnation? Really like the board though. Can you give a match up analysis, specifically what you board in and out? I'm having a hell of a time with Eldrazi, even post board. Also, do you feel Black Sun's Zenith is better than Infest?
Well, that was quite the outburst of random questions! Hope it made sense.
The only downfall with Ensnaring Bridge is that it's s o easy to get rid of. Whereas Infest or Damnation is much harder for the typical aggro deck to handle.
The thing I am challenged with the most, and continues to be a work in progress is the SB. I have a tendency to wanna SB for every deck, and that's just not possible. Trying to narrow it down to the best 15 for my colors.
Me and a buddy were talking about this concept before, and I've considered playing this next season at PTQ's. One thing we have agreed upon is that Mill is just like burn, except here your lightning bolt hits for 7-10(mind sculpt/breaking/glimpse). Only I've noticed in most of these builds is that they aren't curving out at like 3, but instead more like 4-5, which is way too slow for the format. It needs to be more focused power. The only control element I'd think playing in this deck is Pyroclasm for those super aggro decks.
I don't run red, so Infest works for me. I can't help but think Ensnaring Bridge would be awesome too. I would love to test with it.
Only I've noticed in most of these builds is that they aren't curving out at like 3, but instead more like 4-5, which is way too slow for the format.
Nothing in my deck costs more than 2, unless you count the casting cost of actually hard casting Archive Trap. I agree, this deck needs to be like a burn deck and be really fast.
I can also say that after game 1 traps SUCK... the opponent never searches after I ghost quarter a land OR path a creature....
I hear ya! But the way I look at it, my GQ's turn in to Strip Mine's when they adopt this strategy!!
I had for Inquisitions in, but I'm not sure if they were needed. Not sure what I'm lacking. I wanted to go for like a mill control. Not sure if Breaking // Entering was needed. Gimme all your ideas!
Personally, not a fan of permission in these builds. I like either discard or removal MD. I've opted for discard in the MD in my list, 4 X Inquisition of Kozilek and 2 X Thoughtsieze, with plenty of removal SB. Just a matter of preference. Turn 1 Thoughtsieze into Surgical Extraction against Scapeshift is pretty backbreaking...
I think Haunting Echoes is a really cool card too, but the fact of the matter is that it is too slow. Your deck has no acceleration so it's not hitting before turn 5, and if you haven't milled them out by then your in trouble. No matter what deck your playing against, let alone if it's fast aggro.
As to the person who was lamenting the fact that decks who utilize their graveyard to win is a reason to not play this deck: Crypt Incursion
This card is amazing not only as a GY answer to Dredgevine, Living End etc. but also as a foil to aggro in the form of lifegain. I don't play any offensive creatures or any removal MD and this card has turned games for me big time.
I also think some discard package is a must in this deck, especially in this meta. Scapeshift is everywhere and the combination of 6 X discard spells and 4 X Surgical Extraction is devastating for them.
I also can't say enough about how great Deathrite Shaman is in this deck. The lifegain is great, and using him to ramp into stuff turn 2 is awesome.
I think Mill is a real deck in Modern. Not Tier 1 or anything but it is very capable of giving some of the top decks fits, especially Scapeshift and Pod etc. And Scapeshift is everywhere right now, at least on MODO.
Would love to see if we could get some discussion going on this intriguing archetype.
Crypt Incursion is insane, it's the black Gnaw to the Bone. This might possibly offset the amount of removal you need against aggro. Not sure, but I really like it.
Why did he opt for Grove of the Burnwillows? Can I replace with Stomping Ground? I only ask because it's like 13 tix each for that card on MODO and I'd rather not have to buy it if I don't have to. Do you guys think Stomping Ground will work just as well?
Didn't they hide some of the results lately not to reveal too much of the meta? Because they thought that people speculating too much was bad for the game. I think I read that somewhere.
This is true. WoTC only shows the results of the largest of all the daily events for each format for that day. Usually 2-3 events fire per day, per format. But you will never see the results of more than 1, per format.
I hope you don't mind me posting here, technically it's still Troll Worship, but have dropped blue for Naya build. I was finding the blue only used for GoST which due to a lot of reasons, I was finding didn't work how I wanted. I found that running GoST in a dedicated deck was much better than in a worship deck.
I expect a lot of you will question my sanity for that, but this build has been working a lot better for me personally.
With a bit of help from the experts here, thought I could make it much better.
Troll, birds and Thrun is obvious. Noble is there really for powering out Elspeth or worship if needed. I have considered either Deathrite Shaman or another in their place. Loxodon Smiter is for the large amount of Jund/Liliana. I'm finding this such an issue that this seems perfect. Also helps against decks running counters. Also a beater against decks that run bolts etc.
I consider Ghor-Clan rampager to be an instant not a creature, but not very often, can be a creature when running out of options or trying to combat a Liliana.
Rancor for the abundance of lingering souls at the moment.
Paths and Bolts self explanatory. Bolts replace Psionic blast.
On the lands, in all my playtesting it kind of works. The caverns have become pointless since GoST removed, but currently kept in. Could likely be Arid Mesa when I get round to getting some.
Sideboard
Boros Charm to dome them, double strike with trampler or just protect against supreme verdict. I've noticed not a lot of people use non-regen sweepers. Boros Charm replaces spell pierce. I mostly found myself countering or wanting to counter their sweepers. Charm does this better.
Relic of Progenitus is the third Rest in Peace. It's nice to diversify in case they have have a way of removing one.
Kitchen finks for the mono red decks, but they seem to have thinned out a bit recently. Also as I'm running Smiter over Baloth.
Sideboard has little ways to deal with splintertwin or tron decks. I thought Ensnaring bridge might resolve both these issue decks.
Considerations
I've removed the enchantment package down to 3 Rancors, but am thinking of putting the sword package back in.
Would really appreciate your input.
I really like your deck, and was wondering what you thought about Sigarda, Host of Herons? I put this together on MODO and was literally 1 Elspeth short! I had a Sigarda and figured it had some synergy. Hexproof creatures don't like sac effects so I figured that plus being a 5/5 flyer was pretty cool. Any ideas? I saw that you 3-1'd a Daily recently so you must be having some success with it
For some reason I've been extremely reluctant to veer away from creatureless mill, but this list is really nice and gives me reason to believe the aggro mill strategy might be the best way to go.
Any thoughts?
hwhite (3-1)
Modern Daily #5625468 on 07/02/2013
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
3 Watery Grave
23 lands
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Hedron Crab
4 Jace's Phantasm
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Wight of Precinct Six
19 creatures
4 Archive Trap
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Visions of Beyond
18 other spells
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Doom Blade
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Torpor Orb
Also, if the pilot of this deck reads these forums please comment on card/SB choices and what decks you faced during the daily and how the different matchups went. Much appreciated!!
2 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
3 Ghost Quarter
8 Plains
Spells
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Magma Jet
1 Day of Judgment
2 Luminarch Ascension
2 Porphyry Nodes
4 Isochron Scepter
2 Condemn
2 Wrath of God
3 Dawn Charm
3 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Helix
4 Silence
3 Blood Moon
2 Combust
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Hide/Seek
2 Blind Obedience
3 Guttural Response
This deck 3-1'd a Daily this week. I think it's pretty cool. I really like Boros Charm, not only to dome your opponent but as a way to protect Scepter. Any thoughts?
That is correct. Surgical does not trigger Archive Trap
I like your list a lot. It seems really well thought out and with definite purpose. I can't determine if Mesmeric Orb is better than Hedron Crab. I also really like Deathrite Shaman, if for no other reason than the ramp.
Do you find 20 lands problematic at all? Especially with Damnation? Really like the board though. Can you give a match up analysis, specifically what you board in and out? I'm having a hell of a time with Eldrazi, even post board. Also, do you feel Black Sun's Zenith is better than Infest?
Well, that was quite the outburst of random questions! Hope it made sense.
The thing I am challenged with the most, and continues to be a work in progress is the SB. I have a tendency to wanna SB for every deck, and that's just not possible. Trying to narrow it down to the best 15 for my colors.
I don't run red, so Infest works for me. I can't help but think Ensnaring Bridge would be awesome too. I would love to test with it.
Nothing in my deck costs more than 2, unless you count the casting cost of actually hard casting Archive Trap. I agree, this deck needs to be like a burn deck and be really fast.
I hear ya! But the way I look at it, my GQ's turn in to Strip Mine's when they adopt this strategy!!
Personally, not a fan of permission in these builds. I like either discard or removal MD. I've opted for discard in the MD in my list, 4 X Inquisition of Kozilek and 2 X Thoughtsieze, with plenty of removal SB. Just a matter of preference. Turn 1 Thoughtsieze into Surgical Extraction against Scapeshift is pretty backbreaking...
I also feel Visions of Beyond is a must. Amazing card draw
As to the person who was lamenting the fact that decks who utilize their graveyard to win is a reason to not play this deck: Crypt Incursion
This card is amazing not only as a GY answer to Dredgevine, Living End etc. but also as a foil to aggro in the form of lifegain. I don't play any offensive creatures or any removal MD and this card has turned games for me big time.
I also think some discard package is a must in this deck, especially in this meta. Scapeshift is everywhere and the combination of 6 X discard spells and 4 X Surgical Extraction is devastating for them.
I also can't say enough about how great Deathrite Shaman is in this deck. The lifegain is great, and using him to ramp into stuff turn 2 is awesome.
Keep the conversation up!
1 Breeding Pool
2 Island
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Watery Grave
3 Nephalia Drownyard
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Hedron Crab
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
4 Archive Trap
4 Breaking/Entering
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Thought Scour
2 Thoughtseize
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Go for the Throat
2 Infest
1 Damnation
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Nature's Claim
1 Thoughtseize
I think Mill is a real deck in Modern. Not Tier 1 or anything but it is very capable of giving some of the top decks fits, especially Scapeshift and Pod etc. And Scapeshift is everywhere right now, at least on MODO.
Would love to see if we could get some discussion going on this intriguing archetype.
Hedron Crab is a must in a Mill Deck as well.
This is what I'm currently testing:
1 Breeding Pool
3 Island
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Watery Grave
2 Blood Scrivener
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Hedron Crab
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instants/Sorceries
4 Archive Trap
4 Breaking/Entering
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Thought Scour
2 Thoughtseize
I really like it, just really need some help on a SB. Any suggestions?
Thanks
This is true. WoTC only shows the results of the largest of all the daily events for each format for that day. Usually 2-3 events fire per day, per format. But you will never see the results of more than 1, per format.
I really like your deck, and was wondering what you thought about Sigarda, Host of Herons? I put this together on MODO and was literally 1 Elspeth short! I had a Sigarda and figured it had some synergy. Hexproof creatures don't like sac effects so I figured that plus being a 5/5 flyer was pretty cool. Any ideas? I saw that you 3-1'd a Daily recently so you must be having some success with it
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