Yeah, this kind of deck is Hoogland's least favorite, so no surprise he barely gave it a passing chance. I've been testing a version mostly the same as yours, Colz, after I read your Reddit post. It's been treating me VERY well, but I'm testing a few minor changes. Are the Attunes any better than Lay, or is the Energy entirely superfluous? And what do you think of -1 Manamorphose, +1 Pyretic to make sure you don't brick if you have to discard Rituals to Reforge during the draw step? I hit such a scenario in testing, and would definitely have preferred the extra Pyretic.
Black has plenty of "reduce cost and your opponent gains something cards." Every 4-mana 6/6 Demon springs to mind, and I'm sure there are many other examples.
I think the whole counterspell whining about people who whine when their spells are countered is ridiculous, because I could modify that post...ya know what, here!
People weep when they see Cavern getting abused, as a colorless land. COLORLESS. God help us when I use Aether Vial as well, my opponents flip their ***** at how 'busted' a card it is.
CREATURE-ONLY TRIBAL FOCUS CARDS SHOULD BE BUSTED.
Its so aggravating, having to endure the tears of people who could just as easily cast a Path to Exile, but instead want to be allowed to just counter creatures on curve without having to endure the dreaded 'Cavern'.
Shameless Plug for my new article - http://www.mtgcanada.com/modern/ban-ancient-stirrings/
After reading and replying to lots of posts on this forum I got the itch to write again, and here are my constructed philosophical thoughts about Ancient Stirrings.
That was a lot of terrible analogies, strawmen, and moving of goalposts. "This isn't a problem because this thing over here IS a problem!" Despite ownership of a play-set of both, I'd be very happy to see both Spirit Guide AND Stirrings hit the Ban List, but one of those cards is in three Tier 1 decks, and one of them is in ZERO Tier 1 decks.
"Did you bring Stony? If not, concede to Mox Opal!" Jesus, what a terrible claim. Like a plethora of good answers to artifacts don't already exist (they do!), but there's nothing you can do about a KCI opponent digging 10 cards deep to find an EE to pop your Damping Sphere so that they still win on Turn 4 through multiple pieces of hate. Kek? Lul? Whatever the kids are saying these days to show extreme dismissal for an idea they find ridiculous; please apply it here!
White: Aggro (Burn/DnT), Mid-Range (Mardu Pyro/Knightfall), Combo (Counters Company/Cheeri0s), Control (A Lot), Big Mana (Hmmm...)
Blue: Aggro (Fish/Blue Steel), Mid-Range (GDS), Combo (A Lot), Control (U/W/x Control/Faeries), Big Mana (MonoUTron)
Black: Aggro (Hollow One), Mid-Range (A Lot), Combo (Ad Naus), Control (8-Rack/Lantern), Big Mana (Mono-Black Devotion, I guess?)
Red: Aggro (A Lot), Mid-Range (Jund/Ponza), Combo (Storm/Saheeli Combo), Control (Red Prison Stuff), Big Mana (Valakut)
Green: Aggro (Stompy/Elves), Mid-Range (B/G Rock/Abzan), Combo (KCI/Kiki Chord), Control (Mono-Green Control), Big Mana (A Lot)
I tried to avoid using the same deck as an example more than once, but this honestly didn't take very long to come up with. It's mostly just off the top of my head. Every color has a general category they excel in, though Blue could fill both Combo and Control with "A Lot" and get away with it, while White obviously has the least overall diversity of the colors. Sorry if I missed anything, I just wanted to point out that there's not much Modern is actually missing right now.
I play Pauper. Preordain is so many magnitudes better than Serum Visions, you guys must not have played against Blue Delver before. That card is absurd.
Ban Stirrings and leave all the uber-Cantrips out of Modern, please.
1) Hollow Ones early. Looting + Wrath is the best path, but of course sometimes you just roll the dice. Fair enough, very low skill; the "free wins" of the deck. Most well known path.
2) Aggro route. Start with Flameblade Adept and start popping Phoenixes and/or Delve threats into play. I've hit a guy for 11 damage on Turn 2 with an Adept; they're the hidden powerhouse of the deck, and do most of the work. The least-understood path, but the one I've won with most often.
3) Burn. Start fast, have everything get answered, end the game with Bolts and the like straight to the face. Basic and simple, but very effective if you run enough interaction (which I do, and the "accepted" list doesn't).
4) The grind. Everything early is answered, so you rely on recursion and filtering to put Ghasts and Phoenixes into play as many times as possible. I really like the one-of Grafted Wargear specifically for this path, as it allows every threat you have to trigger Ferocious, and gives you serious game against Control by making every single threat a "must-answer."
25) Hope they discard all their good cards/ land to Burning Inquiry. The last and stupidest plan. Only an idiot thinks they will Top a major event following this path. I've seen it twice in the past year. Never rely on this.
"T1 Thoughtseize for perfect information and cutting you off your curve, perfect removal at the ready, and now here's a 5/6 for 2 mana! Oh, but building your entire deck around maybe dropping a 4/4 a turn earlier than my 5/6 is SUPER unfair, guys!"
What a crock of crap. So tired of hearing Junders act like curving removal + threats is the height of skill. I could program an Atari to play that deck with some of the hands I've played against. Anyone who thinks Hollow One is nothing but, "TURN ONE JAM INQUIRY LULZZZ!!!" is very small-minded, IMO. Most of the "pro" Hollow One players with the "accepted" lists I see in bigger tournaments must think they're playing Hearthstone, because they play like the variance is the most important part of the deck. Uggghhh.
Still not a fan of KCI, and dislike the heavy focus on GY stuff, but if the latter ebbs out of the meta a bit, and the former eats a ban (PLZ, WZRDS), I've actually been really happy with how the meta's developed this past year.
I see there's an Oust in the Miracles lists, and that you guys want to draw cards on your opponent's turn, and also that you don't mind 1-ofs left and right. Has anyone tested cutting the Oust and something else for a 1-of Porphyry Nodes and a 1-of Kefnet the Mindful? It's an amazing combo together, and I see some synergy with those types of decks.
I don't thing tons of people are gravitating to "The New Thing" every time one comes along; Modern is an expensive format, so I'm sure a lot of it is newer players getting into Modern and just buying into those newer decks. A lot of older players just don't have the capital to switch around, which is why Modern always has such a diverse set of decks in every tournament.
Personally, I love Hollow One. Lots of avenues of attack, fun combos to play with while putting down solid clocks, and a good amount of interaction and reach. Been playing it for a year now, and I've "cheated" an opponent into a non-game with Inquiry maybe twice in that time. The majority of the time, it acts as a discard spell of sorts that might give me a crazy fast start.
At the same time, I've had people shut me down with interaction PLENTY of times, despite having crazy fast starts, so I always feel like the hate for Hollow One is misplaced.
People want to get away with playing as little interaction as possible, a deck which forces one to do so, while presenting that interaction themselves, is simply a bridge too far.
As I noted last week, people already think Teferi is too good, maybe we just need to admit that people being told 'no that won't resolve' is just too much for them to accept.
Playing around counterspells is a thing of the past. No respect, no acknowledgement of the opponent.
As neither are indicative of the current Modern Meta. I've interacted plenty and seen lots of finesse and playing around things at the large events I've gone to this past year, and the Top Decks lately have had plenty of interaction (Humans, Control, Mardu, etc). I agree with this, though:
I think the whole counterspell whining about people who whine when their spells are countered is ridiculous, because I could modify that post...ya know what, here!
That was a lot of terrible analogies, strawmen, and moving of goalposts. "This isn't a problem because this thing over here IS a problem!" Despite ownership of a play-set of both, I'd be very happy to see both Spirit Guide AND Stirrings hit the Ban List, but one of those cards is in three Tier 1 decks, and one of them is in ZERO Tier 1 decks.
"Did you bring Stony? If not, concede to Mox Opal!" Jesus, what a terrible claim. Like a plethora of good answers to artifacts don't already exist (they do!), but there's nothing you can do about a KCI opponent digging 10 cards deep to find an EE to pop your Damping Sphere so that they still win on Turn 4 through multiple pieces of hate. Kek? Lul? Whatever the kids are saying these days to show extreme dismissal for an idea they find ridiculous; please apply it here!
White: Aggro (Burn/DnT), Mid-Range (Mardu Pyro/Knightfall), Combo (Counters Company/Cheeri0s), Control (A Lot), Big Mana (Hmmm...)
Blue: Aggro (Fish/Blue Steel), Mid-Range (GDS), Combo (A Lot), Control (U/W/x Control/Faeries), Big Mana (MonoUTron)
Black: Aggro (Hollow One), Mid-Range (A Lot), Combo (Ad Naus), Control (8-Rack/Lantern), Big Mana (Mono-Black Devotion, I guess?)
Red: Aggro (A Lot), Mid-Range (Jund/Ponza), Combo (Storm/Saheeli Combo), Control (Red Prison Stuff), Big Mana (Valakut)
Green: Aggro (Stompy/Elves), Mid-Range (B/G Rock/Abzan), Combo (KCI/Kiki Chord), Control (Mono-Green Control), Big Mana (A Lot)
I tried to avoid using the same deck as an example more than once, but this honestly didn't take very long to come up with. It's mostly just off the top of my head. Every color has a general category they excel in, though Blue could fill both Combo and Control with "A Lot" and get away with it, while White obviously has the least overall diversity of the colors. Sorry if I missed anything, I just wanted to point out that there's not much Modern is actually missing right now.
Ban Stirrings and leave all the uber-Cantrips out of Modern, please.
1) Hollow Ones early. Looting + Wrath is the best path, but of course sometimes you just roll the dice. Fair enough, very low skill; the "free wins" of the deck. Most well known path.
2) Aggro route. Start with Flameblade Adept and start popping Phoenixes and/or Delve threats into play. I've hit a guy for 11 damage on Turn 2 with an Adept; they're the hidden powerhouse of the deck, and do most of the work. The least-understood path, but the one I've won with most often.
3) Burn. Start fast, have everything get answered, end the game with Bolts and the like straight to the face. Basic and simple, but very effective if you run enough interaction (which I do, and the "accepted" list doesn't).
4) The grind. Everything early is answered, so you rely on recursion and filtering to put Ghasts and Phoenixes into play as many times as possible. I really like the one-of Grafted Wargear specifically for this path, as it allows every threat you have to trigger Ferocious, and gives you serious game against Control by making every single threat a "must-answer."
25) Hope they discard all their good cards/ land to Burning Inquiry. The last and stupidest plan. Only an idiot thinks they will Top a major event following this path. I've seen it twice in the past year. Never rely on this.
What a crock of crap. So tired of hearing Junders act like curving removal + threats is the height of skill. I could program an Atari to play that deck with some of the hands I've played against. Anyone who thinks Hollow One is nothing but, "TURN ONE JAM INQUIRY LULZZZ!!!" is very small-minded, IMO. Most of the "pro" Hollow One players with the "accepted" lists I see in bigger tournaments must think they're playing Hearthstone, because they play like the variance is the most important part of the deck. Uggghhh.
At the same time, I've had people shut me down with interaction PLENTY of times, despite having crazy fast starts, so I always feel like the hate for Hollow One is misplaced.
And
As neither are indicative of the current Modern Meta. I've interacted plenty and seen lots of finesse and playing around things at the large events I've gone to this past year, and the Top Decks lately have had plenty of interaction (Humans, Control, Mardu, etc). I agree with this, though:
Making Sudden Shock a fantastic SB option on top of all of the available options, AND making Bolt a viable counter sounds great!