This is the 3rd or 4th deck now I've seen finish top 8 that has NOT run Magma Jet. I admit, that surprises me a little...
I know the mana vs damage isn't very good for 2 cc and only 2 damage but the Scry really seems to help make the card worthwhile. It appears most people are using Flame Rift instead.
Thoughts? Is this a staple or something most should run without? The primer mentions it as a good card to use but I really find it strange not more top decks are using it.
So far I just Duress them and cross my fingers they don't get a Leyline opening hand.
Sadly I don't think there's much you can do about it. Thankfully most of these cards are black or artifact, but if a Leyline of the Void is on the table turn 1, you're basically dead.
Definitely a trade off and very easy to generate hate for this deck.... but with the potential to cast Iona or Jin turn 1 - I still feel the trade off is pretty fair. I mean, we're talking -- potentially -- casting a fatty before your opponent even plays a land. I've also been running Dindon's deck that he posted a few pages ago and it's been working really well. I'm not sure if I like going down to 12 land, because some times you don't even have "a" land in hand turn one, so I've been running 16 with no Lotus Petals. Granted, I'm sure I've done 1/100th the play testing he has, so it might be worthwhile to just stick to his decklist.
That's right, but Liliana is:
- a permanent discard outlet that lets you bin your fat guys while making your opponent loose a card
- a way to get rid of ooze
- When going ultimate ... well, my guess is this won't happen too often in reanimator, so forget about this one
Granted, this is a lot slower than imp or study, but it's a lot more flexible.
Totally see your point, I guess my concern is the mana cost. Imp is fantastic because of the 1b to cast and you can use his ability repeatedly. Still, something worth trying out all the same.
Speaking of - I played a TON of games last night, till the wee hours in the morning. Some comments on my current deck which is definitely a work in progress. Before I start, I should mention I upped the land to 18 before playing to see how it worked. Truthfully was disappointed, the only game I got land hosed I could still play 50%+ of my hand, the other times I was top decking swamps at times I really, really, didn't want or need them. I'm going back to 16 land as a base for this deck, but perhaps 17 is the magic sweet spot.
Some highlights'/comments:
-- I'm still debating Dark Ritual heavily but boy those first turn Jin-Gitaxias is absolutely sick. It's always countered against a blue deck but against most everything else it's serious trouble. That's why I like Dark Ritual so much - it gives you some serious explosion. On the converse, there was still many times I drew the card later and it was useless, but I think the pros really outweigh the cons here.
-- I purposely went for Pathrazor many times just to try him out more in battle. He's a beast if he's not dealt with because of the sacking permanents - but lots of times my opponent has an answer. I'm becoming more and more of a fan of Shroud creatures, so I think I'm going to put inkwell back into the main deck.
-- The Putrid Imp is a champion. Absolutely love this guy, so useful for getting your creature cards into your graveyard without wasting a Therapy on yourself AND he gives you protection against 'edict' type spells your opponent throws out against you allowing you to keep your bigger fatty in play.
-- Originally I thought the 12 reanimate cards might have been a little excessive but not so. At one point I had 5 in my hand and still managed to have 2 stripped by discard, 1 countered and had to sac my creature when I finally did get it into play. Thankfully I had so many reclaim cards in my hand I still managed to get Jin out for the win.
-- Cabal Therapy is a must and I was also surprised how much I liked Duress. Very rarely it was useless - though there was a handful of occassions I wish I could have taken a creature card instead. For that reason, thoughtseize is a better option main deck in my opinion, but its' currently out of my budget. I'm going to go with 8 discard and I may actually play Duress over Hymn. There's a few reasons, not sure how much people want me to get into things and I dont' want to go on a tangent we'll leave the discussion for another time.
-- As Kelvin mentioned on his last post, 4 buried alive is far too many... 2 might even be too many. I'm actually considering moving them to the SB because there was so many times I just had other/better cards I wanted to play, even though I had the 3 mana to do so. It just feels, unnecessary I guess.... Usually I'll come across an Entomb or drew a creature card with a way to discard it. By the time I can play Buried alive I already have Jin into play and then it doesn't matter anymore when you're drawing 7. These are probably better served as additional support IMO - I probably only cast it 4-5 times the entire night. You really only need one fattie in the graveyard before the opponent should start to worry. Also, this will completely fix any mana curve/issues with dropping back to 16 land. Hmmm.... is 16 still too much with your highest CC card being 2?
That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm going to tinker with the main deck now and see what I can come up with - just thought I'd share some thoughts for those who are also on the same path with mono black reanimator
Liliana does many good things for reanimator. Probably we should also playtest it in the UB versions.
I was under the impression plainswalkers weren't creatures and thus you couldn't target them with Entomb? Perhaps Im mistaken, still trying to brush up on the new rules.
Haha I'm gonna bug ya again, use deck tags (see above), makes things a WHOLE lot easier.
Are dark Ritual and Pathrazer really working for you?
Sorry about that Im still learning how to use the forums, and Im sure I've already screwed up at least 3 ongoing threads LOL. Swear Im not usually this PC illiterate, I'll have to work on my topic creation
To answer your question, Pathrazer is something Im just play testing at the moment but honestly it's probably better served as a 3rd Jin-Gitaxiax. Im still deciding if I like it in the deck or not.... As the other poster said below, Angel of Despair is another option though I currently don't have one to try out.
Dark Ritual is a really funny beast.... on one hand - it makes first turn fatties quite explosive, giving you the option to go Entomb->Animate spell->Put Jin-Gitaxias into play.... on the other hand it's the absolute worst thing in the world to top deck once you have 2+ Swamps in play. Honestly, I find it incredibly useless mid-late game in this deck. So, it's tough, I really don't know if I have an answer for you because Im having a really hard time debating if the first turn creature is worth it. I've really been thinking of adding extra discard again, but then I play a game where it becomes very useful....
Now to business: Your list looks solid. But I don't think that you need to run a full set of Buried Alive along with Entomb-- maybe cut a few to make room for extra discard? Duress is not that bad (alongside Cabal Therapy) since it takes away our opponent's counters and removal. Also, Pathrazer bugs me. I would rather have a card that does something the moment it enters the battlefield-- Angel of Despair, perhaps? I don't know why you would want to run creature removal.
Thanks for your comments - I appreciate the feedback from everyone.
This is a good point, it's just something I've been spitballing. I wrote it in another post (sadly, on another post I'm sure I shouldn't have been in) that I used to play magic a lot back in 2000-2007 range but have been out for quite a few years. Slowly making a comeback I guess.... My question should have been, what's the reasoning behind not having any creature hate at all? Most decks I've played in the past usually have ways of dealing with critters, though I guess in this case you can handle most things that hit with your own creatures.
I like duress as well, been playing around with it, Cabal Therapy and Hymn (which is one of my favorites).
Oh - almost forgot... I also agree with your Buried alive comment... I've found 4 to be overkill and ends up as a dead card latter in the game. If there was another creature tutor for less mana I'd be playing it instead (the 3 CC kinda bugs me and forces me to use more land than I want). I just find 4 entomb isn't quite enough, so I should look into replacing this or at least cutting it down somewhat.
Now that I've finally gotten myself into the right thread, this is a great discussion fella's.
Edit: Was in a rush and didn't get time to address the last comment
That was a good read - and some really great points, especially concerning Hymn. You're right in that I don't have any thoughtsiezes and probably out of my current budget but it's a good idea all the same. IoK is another I've been eyeing but I may just roll with 8 discard cards and the 4 probes. I find the life loss isn't a HUGE deal but the only drawback is there's no blue source of mana at all so you're basically forced to pay the life. It's something I'm still tinkering with.
On another side note, I almost feel 4 Animate dead, 4 Reanimate and 4 exhume might be overkill as well.... I seem to find I have an abundance of reclaim spells, though against counter decks you probably need to have that much in order to get the creature into play.
4 Putrid Imp
2 Jin-Gitaxus
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tesastodon
1 Pathrazer of Ulamog
1 Platiunum Emperion
1 Spinx of the Steel Wind
I've been debating adding Hymn and/or Duress, and I've even thought about cards like Smother or Go for the Throat as there really isn't any creature elimination. Gitaxian Probe has excellent synergy with Cabal Therapy and the card draw is pretty nice with only 16 land. Ugh... so hard to decide. lol
Do you guys have any comments for the mono black version? I searched a bunch of pages but most of the stuff I found was UB. I'm playing it mono black mostly because I don't have the FoWs or duel lands -- and honestly I'm more of a casual player these days anyways. Having a tough time deciding which discard to use and what tutors to grab the creatures. Currently went with hymn and buried alive + Entomb (4 of each). I'm also playing 1 Iona, 1 Elesh, 2 Jin and a few random ones I like. I've read some people say Dark Ritual isn't that useful past turn 2, even in the mono black versions but I've seem to have had pretty good success with it. Turn one can get off an entomb + Exhume/Animate Dead combo and that can wrap things up pretty quickly.
That deck looks pretty much fine besides try adding Snuffout, Thoughtseize and stuff that manipulates hands. But yeah, this is in the wrong forum. We have a reanimator thread, which is here
I just recently got back into magic and I'd like to have some advice on my deck. I'm obviously play testing as I go but I figure someone with more experience can give me a hand tweaking. I've done a lot of research before posting - so I think I have a good starting point with most of the core slots, though a few I feel are somewhat debatable. I went with mono black (as opposed to blue-black) because I don't have the FoW's and duel lands anymore. Side story -- I'm sure I had a dozen Force of wills when they were worth about $5.00 each /sad panda.
Anyhow - here's my deck Some fatty creatures might seem a bit strange to some but they seem to work pretty well (though if you feel one REALLY shouldn't be in there please tell me and I'll consider removing it with a good argument).
4 Putrid Imp
2 Jin-Gitaxus
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tesastodon
1 Pathrazer of Ulamog
1 Platiunum Emperion
1 Spinx of the Steel Wind
I've been debating adding Hymn and/or Duress, and I've even thought about cards like Smother or Go for the Throat as there really isn't any creature elimination. Problem is I'm having trouble finding room, though Dark Ritual and Gitaxian Probe are possibilities, also Im sure I can cut some fat creatures as well. On one hand, I love Dark Ritual because it's makes first turn Jin's fun and exciting -- it really can be very explosive but terrible to top deck later when almost everything in my entire deck costs 2 to play. Gitaxian Probe has excellent synergy with Cabal Therapy and the card draw is pretty nice with only 16 land. Ugh... so hard to decide. lol
Thoughts and/or suggestions??
P.S My appologies if I put this in the wrong forum - all the types have completely changed since I last played - hopefully I'm good
This is the 3rd or 4th deck now I've seen finish top 8 that has NOT run Magma Jet. I admit, that surprises me a little...
I know the mana vs damage isn't very good for 2 cc and only 2 damage but the Scry really seems to help make the card worthwhile. It appears most people are using Flame Rift instead.
Thoughts? Is this a staple or something most should run without? The primer mentions it as a good card to use but I really find it strange not more top decks are using it.
Sadly I don't think there's much you can do about it. Thankfully most of these cards are black or artifact, but if a Leyline of the Void is on the table turn 1, you're basically dead.
Definitely a trade off and very easy to generate hate for this deck.... but with the potential to cast Iona or Jin turn 1 - I still feel the trade off is pretty fair. I mean, we're talking -- potentially -- casting a fatty before your opponent even plays a land. I've also been running Dindon's deck that he posted a few pages ago and it's been working really well. I'm not sure if I like going down to 12 land, because some times you don't even have "a" land in hand turn one, so I've been running 16 with no Lotus Petals. Granted, I'm sure I've done 1/100th the play testing he has, so it might be worthwhile to just stick to his decklist.
Totally see your point, I guess my concern is the mana cost. Imp is fantastic because of the 1b to cast and you can use his ability repeatedly. Still, something worth trying out all the same.
Speaking of - I played a TON of games last night, till the wee hours in the morning. Some comments on my current deck which is definitely a work in progress. Before I start, I should mention I upped the land to 18 before playing to see how it worked. Truthfully was disappointed, the only game I got land hosed I could still play 50%+ of my hand, the other times I was top decking swamps at times I really, really, didn't want or need them. I'm going back to 16 land as a base for this deck, but perhaps 17 is the magic sweet spot.
Some highlights'/comments:
-- I'm still debating Dark Ritual heavily but boy those first turn Jin-Gitaxias is absolutely sick. It's always countered against a blue deck but against most everything else it's serious trouble. That's why I like Dark Ritual so much - it gives you some serious explosion. On the converse, there was still many times I drew the card later and it was useless, but I think the pros really outweigh the cons here.
-- I purposely went for Pathrazor many times just to try him out more in battle. He's a beast if he's not dealt with because of the sacking permanents - but lots of times my opponent has an answer. I'm becoming more and more of a fan of Shroud creatures, so I think I'm going to put inkwell back into the main deck.
-- The Putrid Imp is a champion. Absolutely love this guy, so useful for getting your creature cards into your graveyard without wasting a Therapy on yourself AND he gives you protection against 'edict' type spells your opponent throws out against you allowing you to keep your bigger fatty in play.
-- Originally I thought the 12 reanimate cards might have been a little excessive but not so. At one point I had 5 in my hand and still managed to have 2 stripped by discard, 1 countered and had to sac my creature when I finally did get it into play. Thankfully I had so many reclaim cards in my hand I still managed to get Jin out for the win.
-- Cabal Therapy is a must and I was also surprised how much I liked Duress. Very rarely it was useless - though there was a handful of occassions I wish I could have taken a creature card instead. For that reason, thoughtseize is a better option main deck in my opinion, but its' currently out of my budget. I'm going to go with 8 discard and I may actually play Duress over Hymn. There's a few reasons, not sure how much people want me to get into things and I dont' want to go on a tangent
-- As Kelvin mentioned on his last post, 4 buried alive is far too many... 2 might even be too many. I'm actually considering moving them to the SB because there was so many times I just had other/better cards I wanted to play, even though I had the 3 mana to do so. It just feels, unnecessary I guess.... Usually I'll come across an Entomb or drew a creature card with a way to discard it. By the time I can play Buried alive I already have Jin into play and then it doesn't matter anymore when you're drawing 7. These are probably better served as additional support IMO - I probably only cast it 4-5 times the entire night. You really only need one fattie in the graveyard before the opponent should start to worry. Also, this will completely fix any mana curve/issues with dropping back to 16 land. Hmmm.... is 16 still too much with your highest CC card being 2?
That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm going to tinker with the main deck now and see what I can come up with - just thought I'd share some thoughts for those who are also on the same path with mono black reanimator
I was under the impression plainswalkers weren't creatures and thus you couldn't target them with Entomb? Perhaps Im mistaken, still trying to brush up on the new rules.
Sorry about that
To answer your question, Pathrazer is something Im just play testing at the moment but honestly it's probably better served as a 3rd Jin-Gitaxiax. Im still deciding if I like it in the deck or not.... As the other poster said below, Angel of Despair is another option though I currently don't have one to try out.
Dark Ritual is a really funny beast.... on one hand - it makes first turn fatties quite explosive, giving you the option to go Entomb->Animate spell->Put Jin-Gitaxias into play.... on the other hand it's the absolute worst thing in the world to top deck once you have 2+ Swamps in play. Honestly, I find it incredibly useless mid-late game in this deck. So, it's tough, I really don't know if I have an answer for you because Im having a really hard time debating if the first turn creature is worth it. I've really been thinking of adding extra discard again, but then I play a game where it becomes very useful....
Thanks for your comments - I appreciate the feedback from everyone.
This is a good point, it's just something I've been spitballing. I wrote it in another post (sadly, on another post I'm sure I shouldn't have been in)
I like duress as well, been playing around with it, Cabal Therapy and Hymn (which is one of my favorites).
Oh - almost forgot... I also agree with your Buried alive comment... I've found 4 to be overkill and ends up as a dead card latter in the game. If there was another creature tutor for less mana I'd be playing it instead (the 3 CC kinda bugs me and forces me to use more land than I want). I just find 4 entomb isn't quite enough, so I should look into replacing this or at least cutting it down somewhat.
Now that I've finally gotten myself into the right thread, this is a great discussion fella's.
Edit: Was in a rush and didn't get time to address the last comment
That was a good read - and some really great points, especially concerning Hymn. You're right in that I don't have any thoughtsiezes and probably out of my current budget but it's a good idea all the same. IoK is another I've been eyeing but I may just roll with 8 discard cards and the 4 probes. I find the life loss isn't a HUGE deal but the only drawback is there's no blue source of mana at all so you're basically forced to pay the life. It's something I'm still tinkering with.
On another side note, I almost feel 4 Animate dead, 4 Reanimate and 4 exhume might be overkill as well.... I seem to find I have an abundance of reclaim spells, though against counter decks you probably need to have that much in order to get the creature into play.
-------
Mono Black Reanimator
-------
Land
16 Swamps
4 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
4 Animate Dead
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Putrid Imp
2 Jin-Gitaxus
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tesastodon
1 Pathrazer of Ulamog
1 Platiunum Emperion
1 Spinx of the Steel Wind
I've been debating adding Hymn and/or Duress, and I've even thought about cards like Smother or Go for the Throat as there really isn't any creature elimination. Gitaxian Probe has excellent synergy with Cabal Therapy and the card draw is pretty nice with only 16 land. Ugh... so hard to decide. lol
Thoughts and/or suggestions??
Cool, thank you! I have apparently posted in the wrong places a bunch (was actually sent here from another thread) for mono black.
Anyhow - Ill do as you suggested. Cheers!
Any thoughts?
Thanks very much - I'll go do just that! Cheers!
I just recently got back into magic and I'd like to have some advice on my deck. I'm obviously play testing as I go but I figure someone with more experience can give me a hand tweaking. I've done a lot of research before posting - so I think I have a good starting point with most of the core slots, though a few I feel are somewhat debatable. I went with mono black (as opposed to blue-black) because I don't have the FoW's and duel lands anymore. Side story -- I'm sure I had a dozen Force of wills when they were worth about $5.00 each /sad panda.
Anyhow - here's my deck
Thanks for your input! Cheers!
-------
Mono Black Reanimator
-------
Land
16 Swamps
4 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
4 Animate Dead
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Putrid Imp
2 Jin-Gitaxus
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tesastodon
1 Pathrazer of Ulamog
1 Platiunum Emperion
1 Spinx of the Steel Wind
I've been debating adding Hymn and/or Duress, and I've even thought about cards like Smother or Go for the Throat as there really isn't any creature elimination. Problem is I'm having trouble finding room, though Dark Ritual and Gitaxian Probe are possibilities, also Im sure I can cut some fat creatures as well. On one hand, I love Dark Ritual because it's makes first turn Jin's fun and exciting -- it really can be very explosive but terrible to top deck later when almost everything in my entire deck costs 2 to play. Gitaxian Probe has excellent synergy with Cabal Therapy and the card draw is pretty nice with only 16 land. Ugh... so hard to decide. lol
Thoughts and/or suggestions??
P.S My appologies if I put this in the wrong forum - all the types have completely changed since I last played - hopefully I'm good