It is doubtful that Blue Devotion can splash a 2nd color. Other than the shocklands, there is no alternative other than temples or guildgates. Even on the first turn, a cipt land hurts and the deck really needs UU on the second turn to cast Tidebinder Mage or Frostburn Weird. Factor in the Mutavaults and the second color is probably not worth the mana issues.
At least, Monoblue devotion spells the end of Selesnya aggro and monored. I think black is the color to go for both green and red to survive. Doomblade hits Tidebinder mage and master of waves and Thoughtsize can disrupt their curve. As for control, I'm aware Pithing Needle has almost never been a good idea, but is it doable with both Jace and Mutavault as critical targets?
I personally really like Pithing needle and usually have 2x in my SB for exactly these things, also helps turn off planeswalkers too.
I also agree on the splashing of a color, or rather, not splashing another color. I'm sure the pros came to the same conclusions in their playtesting. It might be possible on the scry lands and shock lands alone to get another color in there, especially if you're only splashing for say... 4 thoughtseize, but you really are sacrificing a lot of consistency and those into play tapped lands are going to hurt you by preventing key plays at the right times. Still, as other decks adapt to beat this deck, it may require doing the same thing. I personally like the black splash, if I were to add another color.
I don't think it's worth it for the reasons stated above but it's obviously worth investigating to see if that's the case.
Which is extra funny because the deck is kind of obvious and builds itself (though the exact power level of the deck was unknown). It was basically even spelled out for people in Verhey's article when he previewed the master of waves.
Its' true, even though it's innovative there's only so many cards in standard that you could really run in these slots. There's maybe... 3-4 "tinker" slots in the entire deck IMO.
No one had any idea of the real power level behind it though, I don't think they would have expected Mono U going 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
Is it time to bump that "blue is nerfed to the ground" thread that popped up last week after the last SCG open? LOL
Dezani even talked about how they tested the deck against a bunch of decks including Esper until they arrived at the final deck list after his win. This deck is therefore definitely no easy prey for Esper as people make it out to be and people will tweak their list to adapt to Esper players tweaking theirs.
Except the facet where every creature except Thassa and Master of Waves are embarrassingly bad? These guys are running Flying Men in constructed. Here's how you "hate out" the deck:
Counter/Remove the Bident
Have a plan for Mutavault
Save a wrath for Master of Waves
The rest of the deck is barely limited playable.
Yes it's obviously a scrubby deck piloted by bads.... with 2 of them in the finals.
Where did you place in the pro tour with your "save a wrath for MoW" deck?
We are next-leveling each other with internet sarcasm, lol.
In related news, that was a painful Game 1 for Mihara, ouch. Went exactly like I said it would, too. He has to do degenerate things no later than Turn 5 or he will lose.
The blue deck is just so.... fast..... it's ridiculous.
Given the situation, one blue deck is guaranteed to make the finals and devotion has been the story of the tournament. These new waves of decks will now start showing up in SCG events next I figure, along with a boat load of control to try and combat it. RDW and mono red devotion will also be a very popular choice I imagine - but it's been a great standard season so far IMO! Really enjoying it.
He did wrathed and the mono-blue just played a judges familiar and a nightveil and bashed in for 5 with Thassa the turn after it.
Honestly I was being playful as I didn't see the match. People were in here arguing yesterday this deck was basically "bad" and had zero game against any control decks... therefore would never last in this format because it's an auto scoop against control.
Which was proven to be horribly false this morning....
I don't think Mihara has a very good shot if his deck performs like it did against Rietzl. Unless he explodes on T3-T5, the Fish decks just seem to take the game over, especially post-board.
The fish deck is really quite impressive.... 3 of them in the top 4? Amazing..
I mean, they did dodge Esper the entire tournament and the guy in the top 4 must never have drawn a verdict in 4 games /rolleyes but otherwise it's a great deck
It's a good thing Mono U "cannot win the gauntlet" and will "fold to Supreme Verdict" when it beat up the best Esper Control player in the world 3 games to 1.
I tried a lot of these devotion decks weeks ago..... and then I just lost of supreme verdict over and over. Top decking cloudfin raptors and feeling sad about it.
Surely there was still a lot of esper control around.
Is it simiply because they are just better at playing? or found a way around losing to the card with extensive testing?
The mono red devotion deck was a thing already and I think perhaps it was what started it all. but the pros took it to the extreme.
The mono green devotion deck is something that I thought was possible... it did well at the SCG open a week ago, just mono green but Mihara added red and went more all in.
A very strange standard format.. particularly with just how big an impact theros has had... normally sets don't shine until the set before rotates.
Decks like RDW and Naya Blitz last season all "fold to Supreme Verdict" as well but yet, these decks do very well and don't have the card draw something like mono U devotion has. Not to mention massive beaters who are indestructible.
Yeah, I think if you play smart and don't over extend like ANY creature based deck against control you'll be fine. I'm sure its' by far the toughest matchup for a deck like this but it's not just an auto lose because someone is playing with a verdict. Creature decks have been playing around Verdicts for well over a year and still continue to do fine, I don't know why it's not different here, nor do I know why the top 8 isn't stacked with Esper control if it's such a favorable matchup against all these decktypes that DID make it to the top8.
Dusk Mantle's issue is that he has a lot to live up to as a 4 drop in a tempo deck these days, and I do not think he stacks up to that at all.
Our 4 drop should be something we are willing to tap out for a fair amount of the time, and there is no way in hell I would be tapping out for this guy in a UB shell.
Things like Jace on the otherhand...
Agreed, I really see no good reason to run Duskmantle over Jace, which is a shame because I've been wanting to use Duskmantle for a while but there's simply no shell for him to be effective right now.
No way the Blue devotion deck makes it through a gauntlet. The best 1 drop it can muster is Raptor and he is just terrible. It is a tempo aggro deck that has probably the worst 1 and 2 drops I've ever seen this type of deck have. Tempo aggro's plan is win or lose based on those first 2 turns. If they fall behind at all they lose. Master of Waves if the only thing that allows them to catch up on the board. With as much black removal getting tossed around I don't see how they can depend on that plan.
The Green and Red devotion is the real deal though. That is mostly because of BTE's nut draws being good vs EVERYTHING. It overloads black's 1for1 spot removal and control just cannot handle it.
I say Wafo-Tapo takes it because all these decks just vold to verdict.
But ironically placed 1st and 2nd overall (as well as 7th).
Not sure how you can say it can't run a gauntlet when it finished that high... it's not like these decks squeaked in.
note: I'm not saying there's no way they won't win or anything like that, but they have as good a chance as any given there's one deck running supreme verdict in the top 8.
I personally really like Pithing needle and usually have 2x in my SB for exactly these things, also helps turn off planeswalkers too.
I also agree on the splashing of a color, or rather, not splashing another color. I'm sure the pros came to the same conclusions in their playtesting. It might be possible on the scry lands and shock lands alone to get another color in there, especially if you're only splashing for say... 4 thoughtseize, but you really are sacrificing a lot of consistency and those into play tapped lands are going to hurt you by preventing key plays at the right times. Still, as other decks adapt to beat this deck, it may require doing the same thing. I personally like the black splash, if I were to add another color.
I don't think it's worth it for the reasons stated above but it's obviously worth investigating to see if that's the case.
Its' true, even though it's innovative there's only so many cards in standard that you could really run in these slots. There's maybe... 3-4 "tinker" slots in the entire deck IMO.
No one had any idea of the real power level behind it though, I don't think they would have expected Mono U going 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
Is it time to bump that "blue is nerfed to the ground" thread that popped up last week after the last SCG open? LOL
Exactly right...
Pretty good for a deck that can't win a gauntlet.
Yes it's obviously a scrubby deck piloted by bads.... with 2 of them in the finals.
Where did you place in the pro tour with your "save a wrath for MoW" deck?
3-0 and the final will be Mono U vs Mono U - guaranteed. Not sure how anyone can argue it's not a breakout deck at this point.
Very interesting games so far as well.
The blue deck is just so.... fast..... it's ridiculous.
Given the situation, one blue deck is guaranteed to make the finals and devotion has been the story of the tournament. These new waves of decks will now start showing up in SCG events next I figure, along with a boat load of control to try and combat it. RDW and mono red devotion will also be a very popular choice I imagine - but it's been a great standard season so far IMO! Really enjoying it.
Honestly I was being playful as I didn't see the match. People were in here arguing yesterday this deck was basically "bad" and had zero game against any control decks... therefore would never last in this format because it's an auto scoop against control.
Which was proven to be horribly false this morning....
The fish deck is really quite impressive.... 3 of them in the top 4? Amazing..
I mean, they did dodge Esper the entire tournament and the guy in the top 4 must never have drawn a verdict in 4 games /rolleyes but otherwise it's a great deck
I love straw man forum arguments
Decks like RDW and Naya Blitz last season all "fold to Supreme Verdict" as well but yet, these decks do very well and don't have the card draw something like mono U devotion has. Not to mention massive beaters who are indestructible.
Yeah, I think if you play smart and don't over extend like ANY creature based deck against control you'll be fine. I'm sure its' by far the toughest matchup for a deck like this but it's not just an auto lose because someone is playing with a verdict. Creature decks have been playing around Verdicts for well over a year and still continue to do fine, I don't know why it's not different here, nor do I know why the top 8 isn't stacked with Esper control if it's such a favorable matchup against all these decktypes that DID make it to the top8.
Agreed, I really see no good reason to run Duskmantle over Jace, which is a shame because I've been wanting to use Duskmantle for a while but there's simply no shell for him to be effective right now.
But ironically placed 1st and 2nd overall (as well as 7th).
Not sure how you can say it can't run a gauntlet when it finished that high... it's not like these decks squeaked in.
note: I'm not saying there's no way they won't win or anything like that, but they have as good a chance as any given there's one deck running supreme verdict in the top 8.