First off,I'd like to thank you for your interest and offering a variation to the decklist.
While I do like the inclusion of swarmyard in your list,it does seem a little slower to get going with dredge,although the stinkweeds are pretty nice. And drown in filth is an interesting card to use in the list...although it's kind of a budget abrupt decay. I just value faithless looting pretty high for this deck because I get to see more cards at a low cost (and decide if I want to keep those cards). I have tested your version for about 10 games and it just got overwhelmed by aggro every time (especially since you don't have much in terms of removal). Although the lotleths are strong too. I'll probably consider cutting something for the lotleths so I get a lot more early game resilience and a faster clock against decks that need the speed.
Yeah, my thinking about Drown in Filth is that it acts as removal while multi-tasking as a way to get cards in the yard (some Dredgevine builds run it). Did you test with fetches? Drown in Filth really needs a critical density of fetch lands to be a reliable removal spell, so if you aren't running fetches, it's going to be pretty bad.
If you're having trouble with aggro, in theory, Drown in Filth, Darkblast, Lotleth Troll, and Stinkweed Imp should have helped, but this is all theory-crafting, so perhaps there does need to be more removal or another way to stall the early game until you can get your yard full enough to go off.
One neat trick with Darkblast is to cast it on your upkeep, then drege it back on your draw and cast it again to give something -2/-2. It makes the card a little more versatile than it might first appear.
Anyway, I'll go do some digging for other removal/stalling options!
Tron ramps using mana to skip forward to what it takes other decks at best 8 turns to start playing...playing lands isn't exactly combo. decks aren't automatically combo because you use lands to play spells.
don't feed the trolls guys...
RG Tron isn't technically a combo deck (unless you count assembling tron as a combo), but there are a lot of similarities in how the deck plays (redundancy, lots of digging/filtering, trying to assemble a certain combination of cards with the purpose of doing very powerful things, etc.), so it does tend to feel very combo-y.
Mono-U Tron, on the other hand, plays more like a control deck with a combo lock.
There's a deck that 3-1'd a Legacy Daily with 4x Hanewir Watchkeep and 4x Instigator Gang (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/8369). Looking at the rest of the deck, it seems like casting two spells in one turn (let alone any spells in any turn) would be... a tad difficult for the opponent, so the werewolves are pretty consistently going to be their transformed selves.
Most of that list is Modern legal (aside from Jitte, Chrome Mox, and the fast mana lands), but because there's a wider range of CMCs in the average Modern deck, cards like Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere won't be nearly as hard a lock.
Still, I don't like to just shut down an idea without truly considering it (no matter how silly it seems), so I though I'd link to the above deck so we can have a conversation other than "Shhh, no, werewolves suck and will never be playable anywhere."
EDIT: Oh, it seems like the creator of the deck already posted above! (and that's why you read the entire thread before commenting!)
I've said this in a Custom Card Creation thread on the same subject - green 21/21 legend. The only commander able to slay players via commander damage in one hit.
Yeah, this is my thinking too. It would cost, like, 8GGGG to cast and just be the most gigantic thing that ever existed with no abilities.
Runed Halo was sort of dismissed on the first page, but it seems good against Scapeshift, Bogle, Lilianas, and UWR (shuts down Colonnades). It can also deal with Etched Champion in a pinch. Is there any merit in running it as a 1-of in the board?
And what about Suppression Field out of the board against Twin, Pod, and man-lands?
I remember playing him in an earlier Zoo deck, and he was always pretty good. Another un-bolt-able threat, and super efficient. Not only that, he can often swing through or trade with an opposing Tarmogoyf, and he doesn't rely on the graveyard. He's just a reliable, big dude.
Bottled Cloister is pretty vital to the deck, especially game 1. Sometimes you really need your Bridge to be active _now_ and then having access to Cloister is necessary. Even if you lose your hand, that may be preferable to not having the Bridge lock. But g1 it's usually quite safe, and you have Spellskite/Welding Jar as protection. After board you have to play more careful with it and often play it as the last card from your hand. Note that the entire deck is made up of proactive cards - there are no counterspells, so there usually isn't much to lose anyway. That's because my list revolves completely around Esnaring Bridge lock - most decks can't beat you if you can protect a Bridge and the rest of the deck focusses on doing just that.
The matchups you mentioned:
GR Tron is really good, Needle is vital here. If you can Needle O-Stone and Karn you will win, you just need Spellskites/Jars for protection and at some point a Bridge to stop Wurmcoil. Discard can slow them down and after sb discard + Extirpate on O-Stone/Karn or Ghost Quarter + Extirpate can kill them.
U Tron I've never played against, but seems doable as it's kind of halfway between UWR control and GR Tron and both are good matchups.
Twin is also a matchup I like, Spellskite stops Twin and Needle stops Kiki (you can also Needle Exarch/Pestermite if needed but that's obviously a longer shot). Eventually Bridge will also stop them. Again having lots of discard should disrupt them long enough so you can get the hate pieces. Also, Torpor Orb.
GBx is unfortunately harder, as their discard really hurts. It's far from unwinnable but I don't think this is favorable. Still, it depends how much artifact removal they have/draw. They can't deal with Tezzerets easily so playing seven of them is huge for this matchup.
Affinity sometimes just overruns you cause it's Affinity, so you need to be able to dump your hand fast. The good news is that their explosive hands are very dependant on a few cards (Plating and Ravager) so discard and Pithing Needle can prevent their fast kills. After you have Bridge you should often find Crucible as Nexus can stop their crappy fliers (Signal Pest + Ornithopter gets through Bridge).
That is a REALLY cool list!
If you don't mind, a couple more questions:
How common is it to not be able to hit B on T1 for your discard?
What is the plan against Geist of Saint Traft? Does the Bottled Cloister/Ensnaring Bridge lock take care of it pretty well?
Any matchups that are particularly good or bad?
How often do you draw too many Tezzerets? Do they die quickly enough that it's rarely a problem?
Thank you so much for taking the time to post your list and answer questions!
I'm just really impressed with the variety of decks so far, and especially with some of the new/updated archetypes!
I mean, we've got G/r Nykthos, Merfolk with Thassa and Master of Waves, Tezzeret control, Jund-pod with three entire Sprouting Thrinaxes in it, and some pretty substantial innovations to Twin/Kiki-Jiki decks (even one that looks to be straight up Boros).
This is the Modern of my wildest dreams. Okay, not the wildest ones. Those ones involve getting Counterspell and the legalization of the Commander/Planechase cards. But it's still pretty sweet to see some of the
They could make the interface look substantially more modern by getting rid of that green background (it's reminiscent of, like, Windows 95 Spider Solitaire), and making some small tweaks to the text color in the sidebar (something about the green and purple makes it look dated. Black, gray, and blue would look better). Maybe using only one font (or a more complementary grouping of fonts) would help too?
The billiards-table green background really is the lynchpin of the problem as far as aesthetics go, though.
The champion, who had studied music at champion school, instantly recognized the whimsical melody of the Tarmogoyf....
Yeah, my thinking about Drown in Filth is that it acts as removal while multi-tasking as a way to get cards in the yard (some Dredgevine builds run it). Did you test with fetches? Drown in Filth really needs a critical density of fetch lands to be a reliable removal spell, so if you aren't running fetches, it's going to be pretty bad.
If you're having trouble with aggro, in theory, Drown in Filth, Darkblast, Lotleth Troll, and Stinkweed Imp should have helped, but this is all theory-crafting, so perhaps there does need to be more removal or another way to stall the early game until you can get your yard full enough to go off.
One neat trick with Darkblast is to cast it on your upkeep, then drege it back on your draw and cast it again to give something -2/-2. It makes the card a little more versatile than it might first appear.
Anyway, I'll go do some digging for other removal/stalling options!
RG Tron isn't technically a combo deck (unless you count assembling tron as a combo), but there are a lot of similarities in how the deck plays (redundancy, lots of digging/filtering, trying to assemble a certain combination of cards with the purpose of doing very powerful things, etc.), so it does tend to feel very combo-y.
Mono-U Tron, on the other hand, plays more like a control deck with a combo lock.
Most of that list is Modern legal (aside from Jitte, Chrome Mox, and the fast mana lands), but because there's a wider range of CMCs in the average Modern deck, cards like Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere won't be nearly as hard a lock.
Still, I don't like to just shut down an idea without truly considering it (no matter how silly it seems), so I though I'd link to the above deck so we can have a conversation other than "Shhh, no, werewolves suck and will never be playable anywhere."
EDIT: Oh, it seems like the creator of the deck already posted above! (and that's why you read the entire thread before commenting!)
Yeah, this is my thinking too. It would cost, like, 8GGGG to cast and just be the most gigantic thing that ever existed with no abilities.
16 Relentless Rats
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
Echantments:
4 Bloodbond March
Spells:
4 Drown in Filth
1 Darkblast
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
3 Swarmyard
2 Swamp
1 Forest
And what about Suppression Field out of the board against Twin, Pod, and man-lands?
I remember playing him in an earlier Zoo deck, and he was always pretty good. Another un-bolt-able threat, and super efficient. Not only that, he can often swing through or trade with an opposing Tarmogoyf, and he doesn't rely on the graveyard. He's just a reliable, big dude.
I want this card to be good so bad. If only it triggered upon leaving the battlefield instead of dying...
Squadron Hawk is pretty efficient, especially if you plan on playing equipment.
Also:
Depending on how much you're willing to build around drawbacks, there's stuff like:
That is a REALLY cool list!
If you don't mind, a couple more questions:
How common is it to not be able to hit B on T1 for your discard?
What is the plan against Geist of Saint Traft? Does the Bottled Cloister/Ensnaring Bridge lock take care of it pretty well?
Any matchups that are particularly good or bad?
How often do you draw too many Tezzerets? Do they die quickly enough that it's rarely a problem?
Thank you so much for taking the time to post your list and answer questions!
I mean, we've got G/r Nykthos, Merfolk with Thassa and Master of Waves, Tezzeret control, Jund-pod with three entire Sprouting Thrinaxes in it, and some pretty substantial innovations to Twin/Kiki-Jiki decks (even one that looks to be straight up Boros).
This is the Modern of my wildest dreams. Okay, not the wildest ones. Those ones involve getting Counterspell and the legalization of the Commander/Planechase cards. But it's still pretty sweet to see some of the
The billiards-table green background really is the lynchpin of the problem as far as aesthetics go, though.
I mean, I guess there could be something I don't know about how to play Kessig Wolf. Like some secret text or something.