Okay I was really feeling like people were jumping the gun but this is basically just another Commander set. Nobody is going to cast Genesis in Modern competitively and its looking like most of the rare slots are for that or limited. Boring.
I personally feel a lot of these "specialty" sets are like this. Don't get me wrong, I like Commander and I'm still getting a box of this set, but when I see some new card and think "Oh, that's a cool Commander card" instead of "Wow, that's going to be a solid Modern card" in a set devoted to Modern, it's a little disappointing.
I am hoping for Ancestral Vision. Do you think there is a chance?
I don't think so, since there doesn't seem to be a Suspend subtheme.
There's no flashback subtheme, but we have Past in Flames.
Ancestral is a card I'm really hoping will be in. The value is good and if it isn't in the price will creep above $60. Maybe even past 70.
There is a flashback subtheme:
Snapcaster Mage, Past in Flames, Lingering Souls, Gifts Ungiven to get the flashback cards in the graveyard. I expect Mystical Teachings to be in the set, too.
Infect and Dredge.... I have NEVER beaten either of these decks at my shop even with a great board and good decision making. I win 1 of the first 2 games and they always have the nut in game 3. So glad Troll is banned.
Another topic:
So with the ban of Gitaxian Probe in Modern, a reprint in MM2017 is highly unlikely right? I mean they wouldn't ban it, if it was in MM2017 - that would be totally nonsense.
It just might be in MM3. It wouldn't be the first time that this has happened. Stoneforge Mystic showed up in a Standard Event Deck after it was banned, and was only legal if you didn't change anything about the event deck. I also believe there was a card in MM1 that was banned in Modern, but it is escaping me at this time, if it happened.
There is a small possibility it is in MM3. It was one of those cards that needed a reprint in MM2, so they may have decided to put it in for MM3. Guess we'll find out in less than two months.
The Stoneforge event deck released in June 2011. The Standard bans happened in July. There was also nothing in MM1 that was banned in Modern (I'm like 99% sure)
Edit: 100% Sure no banned Modern cards were printed in MM1. Just checked the printing list
Played Counter-Cat last FNM. Went 3-0-1 with an ID for first. The deck was a blast to play and VERY powerful. I played a list similar to what Ashton and haexxx posted, with a few minor changes mostly to the sideboard of course.
Match-ups:
R1: G/W Fog???
Kid was new to Magic. He told me he started playing a year ago, but just got into Modern within the last few months. I'm not even really sure what he was trying to do with his deck, but it played a couple fog spells and some really random dudes. Crushed him game 1, felt bad about it, and let him get me down to 1 life game 2 before I won (he got super excited about having almost beat me). I didn't even bother to sideboard.
2-0
R2: Abzan
Played against one of my friends that always plays Abzan. He knew what I was on because we talked about the deck earlier in the week, but he didn't know my exact list. Game 1 went pretty quick. He had 2 discard after his mull to 5 which took my turn 1 threat and turn 2 counter. Drew 2 Goyfs in the next 3 turns and beat face while he was stuck on 2 lands until they were walled by Souls when he hit his third. Ended the game around turn 6 with a Rancor.
Game 2 was more fun. He plays a tap land turn 1. I play Delver. He plays Explosives turn 2. I blind flip Delver, swing 3, then play Nacatl and hold up Spell Pierce. Turn 3 he plays Ghostly Prison and boy am I happy to throw the Pierce at it when he windmill slammed it on the table. Needless to say this play won me the game (eventually, since it allowed me to do enough early damage). We have a bit of back and forth with me on three lands and him drawing the right removal/lands combination. At one point I decided to play a Goyf that I sandbagged for 4 turns since he had Explosives in play. I had Boros Charm in hand but not enough mana to cast it and Goyf, so I figured I would bait the Explosives and hope to draw Goyf number 2. His turn he untaps and hits it with Path??? o.O Awesome for me because I grab a basic, untap and slam Ajani, keeping his only white land from untapping. He flashes back a Souls, and I continue to keep his white land tapped while I draw into better spells. He's around 8 life so I -3 to kill Ajani and put him to 5 with Boros Charm still in hand. He plays Finks to gain 2, putting him to 7. I draw Serum to leave a Bolt on top, with Charm as my only card in hand. I swing with a Goyf and he trades with his Finks and some Souls tokens (goes to 9). One fetch eot on my turn (8 life) and one on his turn (7 life), he plays 2 threats. I end his turn with the Charm and untap into the Bolt. Such a fun game.
4-0
R3: Naya Burn
I'm not too thrilled when I see a turn 1 Lava Spike, turn 2 Swiftspear/Bolt my Nacatl. This match was a blur since I hate playing against burn so much. Noteworthy things game one were having my turn 2 Goyf eat 2 Bolts, and me somehow not losing after doing so much damage to myself with shocks and fetches. I also managed to Leak an Eidolon. The only other thing I remember was winning with a Goyf and a Hooter when he was stuck on 3 lands, no white, and 2 Boros Charm in hand with me at 9.
Game 2 was about the same. Weird plays from both of us. I really only remember casting a Helix on my turn to burn him, played a Serum off my island, then play a Hooter off forest with exactly 5 cards to delve. The Mandrills won me the game.
6-0
R4: Split for first and second with Bushwhacker Zoo
We still played for fun to see how the matches could have gone. Game 1 I made a few dumb misplays that cost me the game. I had a flipped Delver, a Path, Arid Mesa, Steam Vents, and Mutagenic in hand. I top-deck Serum which draws me Delver #2. I scry a Bolt and a Muta to the top with Muta being able to flip Delver (I didn't want him to know I would have 2 removal for his Nacatl and Goblin Guide (this was my second misplay)). I attack for 3 and play Vents tapped. His turn, he plays Guide #2 and swings for 7. My turn, Delver flips off the Mutagenic. Suddenly, I realize that I didn't have a white for Path, and I can't play the Mesa to fetch/shock to Path a dude since it would put me in Bolt range. Needless to say he throws a Boros Charm at me eot and kills me next turn anyway. Had I played the Mesa before the Vents, and put the Bolt before the Mutagenic, I could have killed two of his dudes (or 3 if I traded a Delver) and killed him in two turns with Delver and a Muta. Oops.
Game 2 I basically just drew answers a turn too late after he played threats.
Part of me wants this card to have 13 different things you can choose from, but still a fun card.
Edit: Kinda random, but somewhat relevant... I was just looking at the spoiler right now and saw something about Odric. Did anyone notice he has 13 abilities listed in his text?!?!
Quick question... Is Crucible actually banned? It doesn't seem to appear on the official commander web page?
Edit: Same thing with Winter Orb. Also, Braids seems to be legal as a commander now?
Remember, this subforum is for the Duel Commander (French) rules. It has a different banlist since the games are strictly 1v1 compared to multiplayer. Crucible, Winter Orb and Braids are all legal in Duel Commander.
Right.. I ask because it says they're banned in the first post.
Guys, what are we doing against colorless eldrazi?
Losing... Lol.
But seriously.. Good question. My general thought would be to main a ghost quarter and maybe a surgical, but it's not the best strategy against other decks game 1. 4 Blood Moon mainboard, GO!
I agree with the majority of this list. The only thing I disagree on is where Jace and Preordain are. I feel like they could be switched. As much as I love Jace and want him unbanned, I still think he's WAY too powerful. Sure, he's got some good answers, but still... A card like that just generates too much card advantage (this is coming from a blue player).
You know? I actually would be totally down with this. (Although it's hard to say without doing a card-by-card analysis.)
Entomb is too good. Cabal therapy is too good. Cabal ritual is too good (especially if Tendrils comes with). Stifle could be too good (maybe). The wishes could be too good (also maybe). Standstill might be too good. But, there is some cool stuff in there.
So, correct me if I'm wrong.... There are people that want 8th and 9th edition to not be included in Modern so as to remove "unfun/unfair" cards such as Blood Moon... Yet ,would that actually remove it from the format considering it has been printed in Modern Masters? I mean, cards printed in Modern Masters are Modern legal, correct? So, just because it was printed in MM1, if you remove 8th and 9th, isn't it technically still legal?
I'm not sure exactly how they'd word that particular ban, but no, something being in Modern Masters doesn't automatically make it legal in modern. Modern is cards that were in 'X' standard legal sets- extra sets like MM, conspiracy, commander, etc, are not necessarily modern legal.
The whole thing is stupid. Just open it up to cards printed since 'X' year and you don't have this confusion anymore. This problem is just going to get worse and then wizards can get non-standard power level cards into modern.
Well, it's easy to see why cards that are printed in those other sets don't make them Modern legal, but all cards in Modern Masters are Modern legal cards. That's what makes it confusing.
So, correct me if I'm wrong.... There are people that want 8th and 9th edition to not be included in Modern so as to remove "unfun/unfair" cards such as Blood Moon... Yet ,would that actually remove it from the format considering it has been printed in Modern Masters? I mean, cards printed in Modern Masters are Modern legal, correct? So, just because it was printed in MM1, if you remove 8th and 9th, isn't it technically still legal?
For question two, Modern legality does not depend on Modern Masters printings. http://magic.wizards.com/en/gameinfo/gameplay/formats/modern
Notice how MM and MM15 don't appear on the list of legal sets. If they wanted to, they could remove just 8th and 9th.
This makes a bit of sense, showing that MM and MM15 aren't actually part of the Modern card pool (which is weird to think about). I guess it's because of the fact that they're more standalone sets rather than part of a block? Idk..
Regardless, I think nothing needs to be banned. Sure, there are cards that are extremely powerful and hard to deal with, but that's common for this game. It's just another strategy and another pathway to guarantee a win. Imagine I'm a head coach for "X" football team and you're head coach for "Y" team. My best running back is famous for wrecking your team every time we play and pretty decent against most other teams. What do you do? Do you complain about losing the majority of times you face my team and my player, clamoring for officials to not let me play him against you? Or, do you figure out a way to beat him, albeit by putting two men on him, or improving your defensive plays? It makes more sense as the latter. Sure, it might be harder to beat specific cards such as Blood Moon, as there is more chance involved in this game, but as a smart player, you should be able to see it coming before it hits the board and be prepared.
I personally feel a lot of these "specialty" sets are like this. Don't get me wrong, I like Commander and I'm still getting a box of this set, but when I see some new card and think "Oh, that's a cool Commander card" instead of "Wow, that's going to be a solid Modern card" in a set devoted to Modern, it's a little disappointing.
I stand corrected. Forgot a couple. Haha.
There's no flashback subtheme, but we have Past in Flames.
Ancestral is a card I'm really hoping will be in. The value is good and if it isn't in the price will creep above $60. Maybe even past 70.
The Taking Turns deck mostly.
The Stoneforge event deck released in June 2011. The Standard bans happened in July. There was also nothing in MM1 that was banned in Modern (I'm like 99% sure)
Edit: 100% Sure no banned Modern cards were printed in MM1. Just checked the printing list
Match-ups:
R1: G/W Fog???
Kid was new to Magic. He told me he started playing a year ago, but just got into Modern within the last few months. I'm not even really sure what he was trying to do with his deck, but it played a couple fog spells and some really random dudes. Crushed him game 1, felt bad about it, and let him get me down to 1 life game 2 before I won (he got super excited about having almost beat me). I didn't even bother to sideboard.
2-0
R2: Abzan
Played against one of my friends that always plays Abzan. He knew what I was on because we talked about the deck earlier in the week, but he didn't know my exact list. Game 1 went pretty quick. He had 2 discard after his mull to 5 which took my turn 1 threat and turn 2 counter. Drew 2 Goyfs in the next 3 turns and beat face while he was stuck on 2 lands until they were walled by Souls when he hit his third. Ended the game around turn 6 with a Rancor.
Game 2 was more fun. He plays a tap land turn 1. I play Delver. He plays Explosives turn 2. I blind flip Delver, swing 3, then play Nacatl and hold up Spell Pierce. Turn 3 he plays Ghostly Prison and boy am I happy to throw the Pierce at it when he windmill slammed it on the table. Needless to say this play won me the game (eventually, since it allowed me to do enough early damage). We have a bit of back and forth with me on three lands and him drawing the right removal/lands combination. At one point I decided to play a Goyf that I sandbagged for 4 turns since he had Explosives in play. I had Boros Charm in hand but not enough mana to cast it and Goyf, so I figured I would bait the Explosives and hope to draw Goyf number 2. His turn he untaps and hits it with Path??? o.O Awesome for me because I grab a basic, untap and slam Ajani, keeping his only white land from untapping. He flashes back a Souls, and I continue to keep his white land tapped while I draw into better spells. He's around 8 life so I -3 to kill Ajani and put him to 5 with Boros Charm still in hand. He plays Finks to gain 2, putting him to 7. I draw Serum to leave a Bolt on top, with Charm as my only card in hand. I swing with a Goyf and he trades with his Finks and some Souls tokens (goes to 9). One fetch eot on my turn (8 life) and one on his turn (7 life), he plays 2 threats. I end his turn with the Charm and untap into the Bolt. Such a fun game.
4-0
R3: Naya Burn
I'm not too thrilled when I see a turn 1 Lava Spike, turn 2 Swiftspear/Bolt my Nacatl. This match was a blur since I hate playing against burn so much. Noteworthy things game one were having my turn 2 Goyf eat 2 Bolts, and me somehow not losing after doing so much damage to myself with shocks and fetches. I also managed to Leak an Eidolon. The only other thing I remember was winning with a Goyf and a Hooter when he was stuck on 3 lands, no white, and 2 Boros Charm in hand with me at 9.
Game 2 was about the same. Weird plays from both of us. I really only remember casting a Helix on my turn to burn him, played a Serum off my island, then play a Hooter off forest with exactly 5 cards to delve. The Mandrills won me the game.
6-0
R4: Split for first and second with Bushwhacker Zoo
We still played for fun to see how the matches could have gone. Game 1 I made a few dumb misplays that cost me the game. I had a flipped Delver, a Path, Arid Mesa, Steam Vents, and Mutagenic in hand. I top-deck Serum which draws me Delver #2. I scry a Bolt and a Muta to the top with Muta being able to flip Delver (I didn't want him to know I would have 2 removal for his Nacatl and Goblin Guide (this was my second misplay)). I attack for 3 and play Vents tapped. His turn, he plays Guide #2 and swings for 7. My turn, Delver flips off the Mutagenic. Suddenly, I realize that I didn't have a white for Path, and I can't play the Mesa to fetch/shock to Path a dude since it would put me in Bolt range. Needless to say he throws a Boros Charm at me eot and kills me next turn anyway. Had I played the Mesa before the Vents, and put the Bolt before the Mutagenic, I could have killed two of his dudes (or 3 if I traded a Delver) and killed him in two turns with Delver and a Muta. Oops.
Game 2 I basically just drew answers a turn too late after he played threats.
6-2
Here is what I played:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Hooting Mandrills
2 Snapcaster Mage
Instants (19)
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Remand
2 Mana Leak
4 Serum Visions
2 Gitaxian Probe
Enchantments (1)
1 Rancor
Lands (18)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
3 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Isochron Scepter
2 Pyroclasm
2 Lightning Helix
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Negate
1 Boros Charm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Timely Reinforcements
Edit: Kinda random, but somewhat relevant... I was just looking at the spoiler right now and saw something about Odric. Did anyone notice he has 13 abilities listed in his text?!?!
Right.. I ask because it says they're banned in the first post.
Edit: Same thing with Winter Orb. Also, Braids seems to be legal as a commander now?
Losing... Lol.
But seriously.. Good question. My general thought would be to main a ghost quarter and maybe a surgical, but it's not the best strategy against other decks game 1. 4 Blood Moon mainboard, GO!
I agree with the majority of this list. The only thing I disagree on is where Jace and Preordain are. I feel like they could be switched. As much as I love Jace and want him unbanned, I still think he's WAY too powerful. Sure, he's got some good answers, but still... A card like that just generates too much card advantage (this is coming from a blue player).
I've been wanting this card ever since Modern was born, but I think it could be WAY too good.
Entomb is too good. Cabal therapy is too good. Cabal ritual is too good (especially if Tendrils comes with). Stifle could be too good (maybe). The wishes could be too good (also maybe). Standstill might be too good. But, there is some cool stuff in there.
Well, it's easy to see why cards that are printed in those other sets don't make them Modern legal, but all cards in Modern Masters are Modern legal cards. That's what makes it confusing.
This makes a bit of sense, showing that MM and MM15 aren't actually part of the Modern card pool (which is weird to think about). I guess it's because of the fact that they're more standalone sets rather than part of a block? Idk..
Regardless, I think nothing needs to be banned. Sure, there are cards that are extremely powerful and hard to deal with, but that's common for this game. It's just another strategy and another pathway to guarantee a win. Imagine I'm a head coach for "X" football team and you're head coach for "Y" team. My best running back is famous for wrecking your team every time we play and pretty decent against most other teams. What do you do? Do you complain about losing the majority of times you face my team and my player, clamoring for officials to not let me play him against you? Or, do you figure out a way to beat him, albeit by putting two men on him, or improving your defensive plays? It makes more sense as the latter. Sure, it might be harder to beat specific cards such as Blood Moon, as there is more chance involved in this game, but as a smart player, you should be able to see it coming before it hits the board and be prepared.