I have the same problem with my Maelstrom Wanderer. It's just reached the pinnacle where the next upgrade yields diminishing returns. Instead, I just simply cut some tutors, and made the free slots flexslots for cards where I wouldn't otherwise try. Take a break from EDH, improve secondary EDH decks, help your group realise what's keeping their decks from beating yours; I've been dead frank with my deck's weakness and helped them acquire the cards. EDH is only fun again if every victory was hard-earned and memorable.
Been tied up with life, grinding, judging and more playtesting... The promised green splash primer is in the works.
Yes, the mono black is the best version. But it simply loses to enchantments. The green splash require a different suite of spells and manabase altogether.
Isnt the green splash essentially what the rock has become (based on its own thread in established?)
I guess the biggest thing is its really hard to play nightveil specter in that deck. Unless you are playing sylvan caraytids as well
2 entire different entities.
1 play forests with swamps, another has 0 basic forests.
B/g has mostly green spells as non-permanent spells and splashes for better removal.
Do you think it is significant that of the four MBD decks in the top 8 the one that won was the one with zero Nykthos and Whip in its 75?
Supposedly Todd Anderson lost in top four due to his first two lands being Mutavault and Nykthos, or something like that (I can't remember exactly what the commentators said but I know an early Nykthos cost him the game).
Nykthos is winmore in most situations.
This logic applies in all devotiom decks except green.
However in mirror matches, Nykthos>Mutavault.
But I love casting Nightveil Specters on time, so I only run Mutavaults.
Then again I like to run 25 lands with at least 21 sources to cast Nightveil so 0 Nykthos.
So far, Blind Obedience does a great job against fast aggro decks (haste creatures) and i could sideboard in Shrivel, although Golgari Charm is much better than Shrivel because of its versatilely.
As I urgently need sleep, my report in raw unrefined form: forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?b=9522
Is in my blog on this forum.
Blind Obedience delays the inevitable and is a waste of a card slot…
The only reason I could EVER see playing Decay is for getting rid of other underworld connections, how is it good against mono blue? Killing a 0/1 cloudfin raptor?
I'm really curious. I have been running almost stock mono black in my weekly events and I haven't lost a match yet, and people in my area are competitive, I've been beating mono red (albeit it's not easy), mono blue, esper, america, u/w control you name it... I just don't see how it's worth diluting the main deck adding colors to play 1-2 marginally playable cards.
The last time I checked, staying mono makes your removal conditional, which you have failed to grasp from my post. It makes killing Frostburn Weird, Nightveil Specter especially easy. It doesn't ask permission from Judge's Familiar either.
Once again you non-splash people pick arguments from the lousiest perspective of the splash ever.
"You'll die shocking yourself if you add shocklands for the splash."
"Your deck is slower than mono black because you play Guildgates."
"Reaper of the Wilds is a card for scrubs because it doesn't hit for 6+ evasive and grant 2 black symbols."
"Thoughtseize answers everything at the right time, without fail, always."
"Abrupt Decay? Only kills a 0/1 Cloudfin Raptor."
Here, have my utmost serious rebuttal:
"The Cloudfin Raptor is a threat, it becomes cloudfin dragon quickly!! Quick kill it with Abrupt Decay!!"
I'm done feeding the trolls.(I'll probably get an infraction for this.)
Desecration Demon gets better in multiples, running 3 isn't where I want to be, I went to 4 or 0 depending on what I expect the meta.
To those who say splashing makes us die harder to aggro, guess what?
I haven't punted a game against aggro since.
Abrupt Decay improves our matchup against monoblue, aggro and control mainboard, that card is just in a different league than Devour Flesh, Doom Blade or Ultimate Price. Ultimate Price sucks so bad against monoblue & control. Doom Blade sucks so bad against the mirror, b/r aggro & control. Devour Flesh sucks so bad against Gruul & control. Running splits tilt me more because I tend to draw the wrong removal at the wrong time.
I recently almost died to Boros burn, stabilised only at 2 life, so there you have it, one single matchup where I could've died splashing(I didn't even shockland myself, if the narrow-minded folks even listen). Either way after another gpt later I'll probably get the splashers another thread, I don't wanna waste my breath for narrow-minded folks.
This isn't monoblue, where splashing sucks because they are a stream-lined aggressive deck, the last I checked we weren't exactly aggressive. I would like to have catch-all answers outside of the 4 thoughtseize because I'm not super gifted like some of the folks here who always draw it and hit home.
I see what you're saying (re not going top heavy for the deck). As i've said a bunch of times, ive no idea if its actually correct i just want to prompt some - proactive - discussion.
Re the Reapers i think it takes the deck in a different direction. I originally made a G/B devotion list with Reaper/Demon Split and whilst it was impressive against the creature matches it just didn't provide enough of a clock against control as they could just take the hits, something that is much harder to do from a desecration demon, never mind Reaper.
I also think that loosing the devotion whilst not massive can actually lead to other problems, at that point you are moving away from B devotion and into 'rock' territory, at this point you may as well play scavenging ooze, and it snowballs!
I assume Thrill kill is there mainly for Aggro/creature matches? if you were going to play him (which i don't think is correct, fyi) wouldn't playing Baleful Eidolon be better there? the extra potential damage you get from assassin is virtually irrelevant as we look to finish games either with slow grindy wars of attrition or massive haymakers. Eidolon blacks just as well and does have potential added upside (if extremely small). Again i dont think its correct, but i may be wrong and that card just seems better for what the deck is trying to do.
Playing Reaper is akin to accepting alternatives to DD such as accepting Reaver. The damage potential is not there but its Verdict or die if they fail to get rid of it before I untap. Being Azorius Charm proof is very relevant, an azorius charm is a double timewalk against DD/Reaver.
Scooze is plain bad, and who equates playing reapers means Rock? Scooze requires multiple forests to be relevant, and if I wanted that I'd play G/r and not G/B because Gray Merchant is too good.
How is Baleful Eidolon more damage potential with upside? Bestow for 5 is bad, 1/1 is bad against control because an AOT blanks it. Between TKA n Muta, it stops Jace from drawing without dying. Granted my list is skewed to beat aggro n monoblue, I don't see why not, cuz these are my weaker matchups(aggro especially as mbd), the splash saves me more than it kills me anyways.
The guys wins a GP and your talking trash about the deck that qualified him for a pro tour because he switched it up? Dude, I don't know what you've got to prove with this but I'm ready to see it. If you never cipt a shock land your pants are on fire. Plus you play guild gates - I mean come on.
Then why are you on the forum? Maybe following your own advice and writing in to him for dicussions might prove better for you. I thought we matured over last 10 pages to accept that splash belongs in the same thread, especially backed with reason. He makes sweeping statements and my rebuttal is trash, sorry for dissapointing, I thought the common goal was to improve thru discussions and not reading articles like its a bible.
Dude, most of what you responded to was a direct quote from a tcg article Adam yurchick wrote. I made it clear that those were his words not mine. Maybe you should go pen him a message in what ever color floats your boat. Maybe being greedy with green will get you somewhere - the pro's disagree. I disagree. We disagree. We agree on that.
Okay. Some guy named Adam Yurchick said adding a color slows it down-then goes and play 3 Temples in the deck, I see, I run 1 more tapped land more than him, I'm gonna slow down and lose to him always because Magic is chess. Lol, in all seriousness, try out the splash. I added percentages to mono red in return my build does have decreased percentages against Demons&Dragons, but who plays that anymore?:-/ And wasn't BBD the one who decided to Dark Betrayal Erebos and take to the high seas with Thassa?
Splashing can be used to hone certain matchups, but it necessarily is going to create a disadvantage elsewhere.
<Sure I die to my own manabase once every month, but if I didn't splash, I would probably have died anyways because Doom Blade / Ultimate Price sucks.>
I do know that people have had success splashing, particularly with green as a way to get an edge in the mirror match. Splashing Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm is certainly a way to get an edge in the mirror match, but keep in mind it will cost percentages in other places, such as against red aggro. 't shore up the mirror that much to be relevant enough, still boils down to who has mastery over vermins.>
For the record I will never EVER ever play a guildgate. nEver.
<Then would you play Temples? Because I'm really happy with what green has given me, it inadvertently grants scry if you build it right.>
if anything, i felt like the green splash hurts the G/x devotion ramp decks matchup
<Splashing or not, we lose to turn 3 Garruk, but which deck doesn't? Because that's not uncommon in that deck.>
Mono black has thought seize, duress, and pithing needle on turn one for domri. You don't need green and if on the play I'm happy to devour flesh a mana dork - it slows them down and makes demon better. I would like to meet this person who convinced everyone mono black has got to play green.
<Mhmm, if you think its good enough then stay mono black, like it or not the splash belongs in the same thread, unfortunately :shrug:>
What are peoples thoughts about playing both Demon and Reaver? not as a 2/2 split but maybe a 4/3 or something? cutting Erebos, maybe shaving one removal spell and a pack rat too? Erebos and Pack rat's taken from the MB would most likely find their way SB
<Demons in non-control matchups, are only good in multiples. I believe the right demon count is 4 or 0, no in betweens. They work better in pairs than loners. I don't think making the deck topheavier is right, especially with the amount of aggro running amock these days.>
Replies in quotes are in GREEN because that color is awesome.
I'm playing 4 Thrill-Kill Assassin main, because Devour Flesh can't swing. I ditched demons for reavers(which absorbed lightning strikes all day), and finally I settled with 4 Reaper of the Wilds, because it actually was what I want it to do, be relevant in all matchups. I must say 0 dead cards against control is so ridiculously fun.:D
Yes, the mono black is the best version. But it simply loses to enchantments. The green splash require a different suite of spells and manabase altogether.
I'll try to get it done asap.
2 entire different entities.
1 play forests with swamps, another has 0 basic forests.
B/g has mostly green spells as non-permanent spells and splashes for better removal.
Nykthos is winmore in most situations.
This logic applies in all devotiom decks except green.
However in mirror matches, Nykthos>Mutavault.
But I love casting Nightveil Specters on time, so I only run Mutavaults.
Then again I like to run 25 lands with at least 21 sources to cast Nightveil so 0 Nykthos.
As I urgently need sleep, my report in raw unrefined form: forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?b=9522
Is in my blog on this forum.
Blind Obedience delays the inevitable and is a waste of a card slot…
Debatable
But sweet sweet revenge!
Good day for us after all!
I've had similar results with instant speed Shrivels that nuked mono white aggro, boss sligh, weapons, that can also kill a Frostburn Weird & Domestication. Abrupt Decay is priceless as well against Nightveil Specters and can also kill Cloudfin Raptors:rolleyes: Let's watch and observe the mono blue and black matchup.
Edit: It is a sad day to see 2 Black decks fall to Blue. As of edit.
Driver, why are you swapped to the B/W variant?
B/G handles aggro better and its our worst matchup, it helps to go lower and not higher.
Pretty much the only 5 drop acceptable in this deck is Gary and only Gary.
I've finished my GPT in top 8 and will write a report plus probably a new subthread for the green splash exclusively.
It will include comparisons and factor in results of GP Alburquerque which I've been watching fervently thru midnight(I'm in asia).
Maindeck Thrill-Kill Assassin is much better if you face traditional 20+ land aggro more often.
Yes they trade all the same, but TKA is more relevant than Newt in every matchup.
Either way 4 is way too much, currently running a maindeck 3TKA/2Pack Rat split for 2 drops.
3 Thrill-Kill Assassin
2 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Golgari Guildgate
2 Temple of Mystery
2 Mutavault
13 Swamp
4 Lifebane Zombie
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
2 Devour Flesh
1 Doom Blade
1 Putrefy
1 Gaze of Granite
No dead cards in mainboard. Reaper over demons because I expect aggro n monoblue to make up over 50% of field.
The last time I checked, staying mono makes your removal conditional, which you have failed to grasp from my post. It makes killing Frostburn Weird, Nightveil Specter especially easy. It doesn't ask permission from Judge's Familiar either.
Once again you non-splash people pick arguments from the lousiest perspective of the splash ever.
"You'll die shocking yourself if you add shocklands for the splash."
"Your deck is slower than mono black because you play Guildgates."
"Reaper of the Wilds is a card for scrubs because it doesn't hit for 6+ evasive and grant 2 black symbols."
"Thoughtseize answers everything at the right time, without fail, always."
"Abrupt Decay? Only kills a 0/1 Cloudfin Raptor."
Here, have my utmost serious rebuttal:
"The Cloudfin Raptor is a threat, it becomes cloudfin dragon quickly!! Quick kill it with Abrupt Decay!!"
I'm done feeding the trolls.(I'll probably get an infraction for this.)
To those who say splashing makes us die harder to aggro, guess what?
I haven't punted a game against aggro since.
Abrupt Decay improves our matchup against monoblue, aggro and control mainboard, that card is just in a different league than Devour Flesh, Doom Blade or Ultimate Price. Ultimate Price sucks so bad against monoblue & control. Doom Blade sucks so bad against the mirror, b/r aggro & control. Devour Flesh sucks so bad against Gruul & control. Running splits tilt me more because I tend to draw the wrong removal at the wrong time.
I recently almost died to Boros burn, stabilised only at 2 life, so there you have it, one single matchup where I could've died splashing(I didn't even shockland myself, if the narrow-minded folks even listen). Either way after another gpt later I'll probably get the splashers another thread, I don't wanna waste my breath for narrow-minded folks.
This isn't monoblue, where splashing sucks because they are a stream-lined aggressive deck, the last I checked we weren't exactly aggressive. I would like to have catch-all answers outside of the 4 thoughtseize because I'm not super gifted like some of the folks here who always draw it and hit home.
Playing Reaper is akin to accepting alternatives to DD such as accepting Reaver. The damage potential is not there but its Verdict or die if they fail to get rid of it before I untap. Being Azorius Charm proof is very relevant, an azorius charm is a double timewalk against DD/Reaver.
Scooze is plain bad, and who equates playing reapers means Rock? Scooze requires multiple forests to be relevant, and if I wanted that I'd play G/r and not G/B because Gray Merchant is too good.
How is Baleful Eidolon more damage potential with upside? Bestow for 5 is bad, 1/1 is bad against control because an AOT blanks it. Between TKA n Muta, it stops Jace from drawing without dying. Granted my list is skewed to beat aggro n monoblue, I don't see why not, cuz these are my weaker matchups(aggro especially as mbd), the splash saves me more than it kills me anyways.
Then why are you on the forum? Maybe following your own advice and writing in to him for dicussions might prove better for you. I thought we matured over last 10 pages to accept that splash belongs in the same thread, especially backed with reason. He makes sweeping statements and my rebuttal is trash, sorry for dissapointing, I thought the common goal was to improve thru discussions and not reading articles like its a bible.
And wasn't BBD the one who decided to Dark Betrayal Erebos and take to the high seas with Thassa?Replies in quotes are in GREEN because that color is awesome.
I'm playing 4 Thrill-Kill Assassin main, because Devour Flesh can't swing. I ditched demons for reavers(which absorbed lightning strikes all day), and finally I settled with 4 Reaper of the Wilds, because it actually was what I want it to do, be relevant in all matchups. I must say 0 dead cards against control is so ridiculously fun.:D
Creatures (17)
4 Thrill-Kill Assassin
1 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
Instants (8)
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hero's Downfall
Sorceries (4)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Golgari Guildgate
2 Mutavault
1 Unknown Shores
14 Swamp
Maindeck no dead cards. Something pure-bred black can never ever achieve.