For those unsure about the burn matchup (I switched from burn to play Ponza but I still play it about 25% of the time in Modern and 100% of the time in Legacy) Blood Moon isn’t that great. You can keep in the other Rain effects because Trinisphere is your friend here along with your life gain package.
I do exactly the opposite. I keep Blood Moon in as it shuts off Boros Charm, Lightning Helix, Destructive Revelry and possibly Atarka's Command. I find it pretty hard to lock Burn out under a Trinisphere. Sure it's possible to lock them out of the game but they have way more lands than we have land destruction spells, so they eventually draw out of the lock and we end up drawing land destruction when they have 4 lands in play.
A second more practical reason is that I always have lots of cards that I want to bring in against Burn: Trinispheres, Kitchen Finks, Obstinate Baloths, and I need to side something out, so out goes the land destruction.
With all the talk in the thread about Tireless Tracker being good... finally caved in and added two tracker + 3 clue tokens to my SCG cart.
To those who use tracker... how many is good in the main. 2 or 3?
Run 4.
They are fine to ramp into on turn 2, They are great to play on turn 3 followed by a land drop (even better if it's a fetch land). They draw out removal spells so that you're bigger threats tend to stick more often. If they don't remove it, it will generate clues like crazy.
Relevant Story: I played a tireless tracker on turn 3 played a fetch to get a clue and passed the turn (I was pretty sure he had a lightning bolt in hand and was just going to get the second clue if he bolted), he declined to bolt it and let me untap. I now had 4 mana and 2 clues available, he couldn't bolt it now even if he wanted to because I could just spend the 4 mana draw 2 cards and have a 5/4 which would survive the bolt. Basically the moral of the story is don't be greedy in trying to get the second clue of a fetch land too soon, just let your opponent kill it and then respond with the fetch to get a second clue.
I'm reading the Monster Ponza lists are running 4 Stone Rain's and 2 Mwonvuli Acid Moss, and I'm wondering with the inclusion of 3 or 4 Tireless Trackers in the main why exactly this is happening? It appears to be nothing more than a curve consideration because the synergy with Mwonvuli Acid Moss and Tracker seems pretty tempting to try more copies of Acid Moss.
Keiichi I like the ideas behind your list but I would consider trying a few of these cards:
Chandra, Flamecaller She doesn't exactly work great with Hazoret, but Hazoret being a 2 of means you won't always see a Hazoret. Also the interaction between Chandra's 0 to discard your hand to dig for more Demigod's seems pretty good. Chandra Flamecaller can also just put a pretty decent clock on your opponents when they are locked or semi-locked under a blood moon. Chandra can also be ramped into from a Torch of Defiance now so that seems pretty decent.
Anger of the Gods Damnation is fine as a 1 of but I would slightly cut down on the spot removal such as Dreadbore and Terminate to add some Angers. They will drastically help keep you in the games against aggro as well as helping your matchup against Dredge and various CoCo decks.
Dragonskull Summit I think this card is just a better choice than Smoldering Marsh You can fetch a Smoldering Marsh, but unless you already have 2 swamps in play the Smoldering Marsh is always coming into play tapped, whereas you could fetch the Blood Crypt and have a choice, I just see more upside of turn 2 playing a Dragonskull Summit untapped, since every other land allows Dragonskull Summit to enter untapped.
I really like the Liliana, the Last Hope in your list. Getting back the Demigod can get you so much value.
If Storm becomes the real threat, should we start playing Trinisphere MB ?
Have we something else against Storm we could run MB?
This is why I like running Beast Within in the main deck. Hitting their Baral or Electromancer can often just slow them down enough to let the rest of the land destruction and threats do their job.
You can do it but you have to take out all your Relics and Mindstones. You can run Simian Spirit Guide over Mindstones, but having no graveyard interaction other than Anger of the Gods doesn't seem very good.
B) Temples (such as Temple of Enlightenment) also enter untapped, and no longer get a scry trigger.
C) As far as I know, all other "comes into play tapped" lands come in untapped when Blood Moon is in play. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm pretty sure that the Scry Temples entered tapped and didn't scry under the old rule. I think the only relevant change was "As ~ enters the battlefield..." will no longer apply under a Blood Moon.
You are correct in the come into play tapped lands will now come into play untapped (unless at some future time they make a basic land type that enters tapped).
Hi I'm currently a Skred Red player but over the years I've picked up the various cards to make Ponza and I was hoping for some advice as I prepare for PPTQ's.
Basically I look at Skred as a reactive deck that does well against aggro decks (other than boggles), creature decks, and control decks but struggles against combo decks (Storm, Ad Nauseam, Scapeshift, Grishoalbrand) and all Tron Variants.
This is where I may need some correction but it appears that Ponza is a far more proactive deck that isn't quite as good against the aggro decks, creature decks, but gains a lot against Combo and Tron decks (faster ramp into more land destruction/disruption). Am I roughly correct about this assessment?
I really do like playing Skred but post-board I often side in Molten Rains and feel like a poor imitation of Ponza, so I'm considering the switch to Ponza.
You want to use it in matches where you can use 2 modes at least. Ad nuseam you can get discard and 2 life to work (lifeloss kills them with a unlife out), collected company decks where you can kill a mana dork and take company, burn or zoo decks where you can kill an attacker and take a burn spell. G/W decks like taxs where you can kill a hatebear and take stuff like path.
I'm pretty sure that with Phyrexian Unlife in play Collective Brutality's mode of drain 2 won't affect them in the least.
I've had some success in testing 2 copies of Countervailing Winds over Sphinx of the Final Word in the main deck. Countervailing Winds has some utility before you're comboing off and it also is easier to get to 17 mana over 21 mana, especially in those situations when you have access to only 2 Viziers when you try to combo off.
We don't have to concede the Death's Shadow matchup.
Ensnaring Bridge beats Death's Shadow. Boros Reckoner beats it if it doesn't eat a Fatal Push. Earthquake is a bad time for them. Banefire is a bad time for them. An early Blood Moon or Rabblemaster can beat them in a race, so play Simian Spirit Guide.
Parts of the same program help against Eldrazi Tron, just less so.
I agree that we don't have to concede the Death's Shadow match up but Earthquake can't kill a Death's Shadow. Banefire seems like it could be ok but you have to remember that if you don't want them to counter it it's 6 mana and they have all those turns to Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek it out of your hand.
Hazoret is the real deal, if it's in play it lines up incredibly nicely against Gurmag Angler, Tagisur, Thoughtknot Seer, Reality Smasher, Tarmogoyf and can chump Death's Shadow, while producing a clock. It does require some proper play sequencing to make it relevant in combat but it's not a deal breaker.
I played Skred at the F2F Games Modern Open this past weekend that was being held at GP Toronto. I went 6-2-1 and placed 18th out of ~230 players. This is the deck list I ran:
Wins: Abzan Company (Spike Feeder/Angel), UW Control, Jeskai Flash, Abzan Delerium, Tron, Grixis Control
Losses: Abzan Company (Vizier/Druid), Ad Nauseam
Draw: Abzan Company (Vizier/Druid)
My thoughts on my deck:
This is the first time I've tried the Mind Stone/Simian Spirit Guide split and I really liked it. The Simian Spirit Guide allowed me to resolve a Blood Moon on turn 2 against Abzan Company and also allowed me to pay 1 for a Logic Knot, as well as Bolting an attacking Snapcaster to keep my Planeswalker alive. I don't think Skred can really afford to just run 4 Mind Stones main and 4 Simian Spirit Guides in the sideboard so I liked the 3/2 compromise, and would consider running 2/2 or 2/3. I am also strongly considering running just 4 Simian Spirit Guides as that would allow me to run 4 Goblin Rabblemasters in the sideboard for the match ups against Tron, Ad Nauseam, other non-interactive decks that try to race you.
Hazoret was very good for me whenever I played him. She did eat a path to exile once but honestly if my opponent is running path I am 100% ok with that as the rest of my deck is incredibly good against path. She ate numerous Tasigurs and turned extra lands into shocks to the face. I would consider running 2 copies if I could fit it in.
After my round 1 I walked around and saw an absolute ton of Collected Company decks and instantly regretted not running Grafdigger's Cage in the sideboard.
The Ad Nauseam deck was running main deck Solemnity to go along with Phyrexian Unlife (I got to look through his deck when he Ad Nauseam'd me game 1) and when he landed both pieces turn 2 I was locked out from making the top 8.
So is New Perspectives still a deck? I've been thinking of trying the The Locust God as a 1 of in the sideboard to bring in after my opponents side out most of their removal. I haven't tested it yet but I figure in games 2 and 3 when opponents bring in Lost Legacy it's a good way to diversify.
The legend rule thing is not a problem at all in our deck. If you're casting this with a Koth or Chandra on the board you use them to help pay for it to offset the downside -- you get another use of loyalty if you draw a new one. With P&K it just nets you two extra tokens.
Again, it's a card you cast when you're behind to dig for answers. It's an alternative to the one-off Obliterate -- a worse effect that's available quicker.
To say the legend rule isn't a problem at all is reductive, if you flip 2 Koth's or 2 Chandras or 2 Pia and Kiran's you're not getting the full value of the card so to me that does indeed indicate a problem. If you're using Koth or Chandra (or both) to cast this spell you're almost certainly not behind on the board.
While I don't think the card is playable there are instances where I can see it being good: Using a Chandra -2 to cast the spell and revealing Anger and Pia and Kiran does seem quite good as you can put the spells on the stack in an order you choose, so Anger clearing the board into a Pia and Kiran does seem a great way to comeback from a losing situation, but the odds of it happening are so low that I'm pretty sure it's not a card worth running.
There's no way you're at all likely to get 20 mana worth of stuff for the 12 mana (maybe 10 mana if you cast it for 2 mind stones) and even then I'd say it's going to be pretty hard to even get 10 mana worth of stuff. Between lands (23), 1 mana spells (4 Skred, 4 Bolts and 4 Relics) the math says we're not going to be getting enough value from this spell. Skred might not have a target and also some of our larger payoff cards like Koth and Pia & Kiran are legends and legend ruling themselves would also be pretty bad.
I do exactly the opposite. I keep Blood Moon in as it shuts off Boros Charm, Lightning Helix, Destructive Revelry and possibly Atarka's Command. I find it pretty hard to lock Burn out under a Trinisphere. Sure it's possible to lock them out of the game but they have way more lands than we have land destruction spells, so they eventually draw out of the lock and we end up drawing land destruction when they have 4 lands in play.
A second more practical reason is that I always have lots of cards that I want to bring in against Burn: Trinispheres, Kitchen Finks, Obstinate Baloths, and I need to side something out, so out goes the land destruction.
Run 4.
They are fine to ramp into on turn 2, They are great to play on turn 3 followed by a land drop (even better if it's a fetch land). They draw out removal spells so that you're bigger threats tend to stick more often. If they don't remove it, it will generate clues like crazy.
Relevant Story: I played a tireless tracker on turn 3 played a fetch to get a clue and passed the turn (I was pretty sure he had a lightning bolt in hand and was just going to get the second clue if he bolted), he declined to bolt it and let me untap. I now had 4 mana and 2 clues available, he couldn't bolt it now even if he wanted to because I could just spend the 4 mana draw 2 cards and have a 5/4 which would survive the bolt. Basically the moral of the story is don't be greedy in trying to get the second clue of a fetch land too soon, just let your opponent kill it and then respond with the fetch to get a second clue.
Chandra, Flamecaller She doesn't exactly work great with Hazoret, but Hazoret being a 2 of means you won't always see a Hazoret. Also the interaction between Chandra's 0 to discard your hand to dig for more Demigod's seems pretty good. Chandra Flamecaller can also just put a pretty decent clock on your opponents when they are locked or semi-locked under a blood moon. Chandra can also be ramped into from a Torch of Defiance now so that seems pretty decent.
Anger of the Gods Damnation is fine as a 1 of but I would slightly cut down on the spot removal such as Dreadbore and Terminate to add some Angers. They will drastically help keep you in the games against aggro as well as helping your matchup against Dredge and various CoCo decks.
Dragonskull Summit I think this card is just a better choice than Smoldering Marsh You can fetch a Smoldering Marsh, but unless you already have 2 swamps in play the Smoldering Marsh is always coming into play tapped, whereas you could fetch the Blood Crypt and have a choice, I just see more upside of turn 2 playing a Dragonskull Summit untapped, since every other land allows Dragonskull Summit to enter untapped.
I really like the Liliana, the Last Hope in your list. Getting back the Demigod can get you so much value.
This is why I like running Beast Within in the main deck. Hitting their Baral or Electromancer can often just slow them down enough to let the rest of the land destruction and threats do their job.
You can do it but you have to take out all your Relics and Mindstones. You can run Simian Spirit Guide over Mindstones, but having no graveyard interaction other than Anger of the Gods doesn't seem very good.
I'm pretty sure that the Scry Temples entered tapped and didn't scry under the old rule. I think the only relevant change was "As ~ enters the battlefield..." will no longer apply under a Blood Moon.
You are correct in the come into play tapped lands will now come into play untapped (unless at some future time they make a basic land type that enters tapped).
Basically I look at Skred as a reactive deck that does well against aggro decks (other than boggles), creature decks, and control decks but struggles against combo decks (Storm, Ad Nauseam, Scapeshift, Grishoalbrand) and all Tron Variants.
This is where I may need some correction but it appears that Ponza is a far more proactive deck that isn't quite as good against the aggro decks, creature decks, but gains a lot against Combo and Tron decks (faster ramp into more land destruction/disruption). Am I roughly correct about this assessment?
I really do like playing Skred but post-board I often side in Molten Rains and feel like a poor imitation of Ponza, so I'm considering the switch to Ponza.
I'm pretty sure that with Phyrexian Unlife in play Collective Brutality's mode of drain 2 won't affect them in the least.
I agree that we don't have to concede the Death's Shadow match up but Earthquake can't kill a Death's Shadow. Banefire seems like it could be ok but you have to remember that if you don't want them to counter it it's 6 mana and they have all those turns to Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek it out of your hand.
Hazoret is the real deal, if it's in play it lines up incredibly nicely against Gurmag Angler, Tagisur, Thoughtknot Seer, Reality Smasher, Tarmogoyf and can chump Death's Shadow, while producing a clock. It does require some proper play sequencing to make it relevant in combat but it's not a deal breaker.
2 Eternal Scourge
2 Simian Spirit Guides
3 Kia and Piran Nalaar
1 Hazoret the Fervant
2 Stormbreath Dragons
Spells
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Skred
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Roast
3 Mind Stone
3 Blood Moon
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
21 Snow Covered Mountains
2 Scrying Sheets
3 Molten Rain
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Roast
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Shattering Spree
2 Ratchet Bombs
Wins: Abzan Company (Spike Feeder/Angel), UW Control, Jeskai Flash, Abzan Delerium, Tron, Grixis Control
Losses: Abzan Company (Vizier/Druid), Ad Nauseam
Draw: Abzan Company (Vizier/Druid)
My thoughts on my deck:
This is the first time I've tried the Mind Stone/Simian Spirit Guide split and I really liked it. The Simian Spirit Guide allowed me to resolve a Blood Moon on turn 2 against Abzan Company and also allowed me to pay 1 for a Logic Knot, as well as Bolting an attacking Snapcaster to keep my Planeswalker alive. I don't think Skred can really afford to just run 4 Mind Stones main and 4 Simian Spirit Guides in the sideboard so I liked the 3/2 compromise, and would consider running 2/2 or 2/3. I am also strongly considering running just 4 Simian Spirit Guides as that would allow me to run 4 Goblin Rabblemasters in the sideboard for the match ups against Tron, Ad Nauseam, other non-interactive decks that try to race you.
Hazoret was very good for me whenever I played him. She did eat a path to exile once but honestly if my opponent is running path I am 100% ok with that as the rest of my deck is incredibly good against path. She ate numerous Tasigurs and turned extra lands into shocks to the face. I would consider running 2 copies if I could fit it in.
After my round 1 I walked around and saw an absolute ton of Collected Company decks and instantly regretted not running Grafdigger's Cage in the sideboard.
The Ad Nauseam deck was running main deck Solemnity to go along with Phyrexian Unlife (I got to look through his deck when he Ad Nauseam'd me game 1) and when he landed both pieces turn 2 I was locked out from making the top 8.
To say the legend rule isn't a problem at all is reductive, if you flip 2 Koth's or 2 Chandras or 2 Pia and Kiran's you're not getting the full value of the card so to me that does indeed indicate a problem. If you're using Koth or Chandra (or both) to cast this spell you're almost certainly not behind on the board.
While I don't think the card is playable there are instances where I can see it being good: Using a Chandra -2 to cast the spell and revealing Anger and Pia and Kiran does seem quite good as you can put the spells on the stack in an order you choose, so Anger clearing the board into a Pia and Kiran does seem a great way to comeback from a losing situation, but the odds of it happening are so low that I'm pretty sure it's not a card worth running.