I see two completely different mana bases being played right now, both having success in Modern Leagues.
The traditional Dredgevine manabase (if a traditional Dredgevine mana base is even a thing) involving fetches/shocks some fastlands and some basics.
The new version that runs Dakmor Salvage, Gemstone Mines, a lot of fastlands and some basics. This looks more like a list that a straight up Dredge deck would run.
I feel like the new version might just be a budget approach. I do like the interaction of Gemstone Mine and Life from the Loam, but in general I feel like if you want to be casting Life from the Loam playing with the traditional mana base is a better idea as you can get your lands into play untapped more often.
The problem I see with Dakmor Salvage, is that while Dakmor allows you can hit your land drops, the land comes into play tapped (a loss of tempo) and instead of Dredging 5 or 6 you're dredging 2 so your graveyard isn't being filled as fast, which means future turns will be less explosive. I can see running 1 Dakmor salvage if you can fit it in your mana base and you need to up your dredge count. Before I added a second copy of Dakmor I would really examine whether Life from the Loam would be better as I feel they often have the same role in the deck.
For the 4 colour decks playing Narcomoebe, I really think they should include Golgari Thug in some number. The Golgari Thug adds even more lines to a very complicated deck to play.
When a Golgari Thug dies you can put the Narcomoeba on top of your library, and then on your next card draw you can Dredge back the Golgari Thug and put the Narcomoeba and all Prized Amalgams into play.
You can cast an Insolent Neonate, sac it and Dredge the Golgari Thug and then cast the Golgari Thug to get back Vengevines and Prized Amalgams (if you have Vengevines that return), for just 3 mana. You also have a Thug for chump blocking which when he dies you can either set an Insolent Neonate back on top of your library and repeat the process or you can set a Narcomoeba on top and Dredge it away.
@ Baorap - keep the lists coming, its a good thing!
@ vollick & Gabriel - those decks aren't stone-cold dead to scavenging ooze. They can amass an army as early as T2, simply by going T1 Loot, discard ghast + amalgam. Add any dredger to that list and it gets better. Opponent playing scooze on 2 then activating three times on 3 is good, but that's a world where you've done nothing more (e.g. activated no more creatures on T3), they have 3 green sources and the named scooze. I've found scooze to be easier to beat now that we go wider.
Having said that, I would want some answers to creatures. Lightning Axe and Murderous Cut both seem better than Ultimate Price, and that's the route i'd take.
Has anyone got a link to the dredge-bridge from below primer? That deck has picked up some traction recently too!
I know there are a lot of lines that this deck can take and having multiple creatures on the board on turn 2 is a good way to beat Scavenging Ooze, but I don't think 5 power in the form of a Bloodghast and an Amalgam is enough to beat a turn 2 Scavenging Ooze.
I just don't understand why the list doesn't involve any Lightning Axes. Lightning Axe is just such a huge tempo play, it likely puts 2 cards in the graveyard that we want in the graveyard all for 1 mana.
The 5-0 lists are impressive but what troubles me is how these decks are stone-dead to Scavenging Ooze. I know there are very quick lines that the deck can take but having 0 answers for an early ooze in the entire 75 seems crazy to me. Is this a case of we can't beat an ooze so don't worry about it?
Another good player to watch if you're interested in various Dredge strategies (not necessarily Dredgevine) is Magus of the Moon: www.twitch.tv/magus_of_the_moon.
Dredgevine is pretty tame in comparison to some of complete Dredge lists, but it's also a lot more resilient to actual graveyard hate as well.
Travis Woo has been working on a 4-colour Dredgevine, the blue splash being 4 Hedron Crabs and a Stichwing Skaab. I watched his primer last night and a round against Red Green Tron. The deck looks super explosive but I'm still not entirely sure it's worth it to play the Hedron Crabs. I also don't know how his deck can beat a resolved Scavenging Ooze.
I don't have a super detailed tournament report but I'll do my best
[b]Round 1[/b] - UWR Geist
Game 1 - I look at a hand with 3 lands, Faithless Looting, Insolent Neonate, Dredge creature, Vengevine. I'm very happy with this hand and I run him down quite quickly.
Game 2 - I look at an opener with 2 red sources, 1 Faithless Looting, 2 Insolent Neonate, 2 Vengevine. Again I'm super happy with this hand. My line of play is Looting, discard the 2 Vengevines and on turn 2 run out 2 Insolent Neonate to trigger both Vengevines.
[b](1-0)[/b]
[b]Round 2[/b]- UB Ancestral Vision/Thoptor/Sword/Thing in the Ice Combo deck
Game 1 - I can't recall anything special about this game but I manage to beat him down with Bloodghasts and Amalgams while he's suspending Vision.
Note: Thing in the Ice was very good against my deck. A lot of time it just reduces the clock significantly because it blocks the Amalgam and allows a Bloodghast through. I saw the Sword of the Meek, so I sided in Ancient Grudge and an Abrupt Decay
Game 2 - This game I also started strong (so at this point in the tournament I'm thinking I'm doing quite well), I had Looting discarding Bloodghast and Amalgam and then on turn 2 from Landfall trigger I had Bloodghast and Amalgam. Here's where the Thing in the Ices did so much work. I was hitting him each turn for 2 while he developed his board because he kept blocking my Amalgam and only taking 2. So I'm working him down, he lands a Bob and gets land land Slaughter Pact off of it. I'm dredging super hard, I eventually get a big board state and get him down to 7 or 8 life, he flips Thing in the Ice, swings and then plays Kalitas. The next turn I dredge hard play 2 creatures from my hand get back 3 Vengevine, a land to get 3 Bloodghasts and swing team, but has Slaughter Pact and Doom Blade to kill 2 Vengevines and make 2 Zombies onto game 3. I take out Ancient Grudge to put in a Lightning Axe (to kill Kalitas).
Game 3 - This game was a lot of fun, I keep a land with 2 lands, Lotleth Troll and Dredge Creatures, and he turn 1 Inquisitions me! I was surprised to see him keep Inquisition in against me (I asked him later and he said he didn't have anything else better to put in from the sideboard) I won't go into too many details (because it was a long game, lots of Dredging) but needless to say he landed the Thoptor/Sword combo and I was attacking with 3 Vengevine/3 Amalgam/3 Gravecrawlers/1 Bloodghast each turn. It went to turns and I conceded because I had no way of winning and he was able to make enough blockers and gain life.
I feel like I could have won this match, maybe even game 2.
[b](1-1)[/b]
[b]Round 3[/b] - Scapeshift with Prismatic Omen.
Game 1 and Game 2 - I kept a slow hand game 1 and in game 2 I kept a slow 6 that I probably should have mulled. I boarded in 3 Thoughseize and took out Darkblast, Lightning Axe and I think a Gravetroll.
Matchup seems very difficult they just ramp, and I can't interact very easily with them and then they just cast Scapeshift dealing 54 damage or something from 3 Valakuts and 3 Mountains. I don't know if Gnaw to the Bone is even worth it if they have Prismatic Omen because they can do so much more damage than Gnaw usually will gain.
[b](1-2)[/b]
[b]Round 4[/b] - Elves
Game 1 - He mulled to 5 and I steamrolled him. In came Golgari Charm, Abrupt Decay, Lightning Axe, Darkblast out went Stinkweed, Gravetroll and 2 Neonate
Game 2 - He landed a turn 2 Ooze, and that was basically it, as I didn't see any interaction in Abrupt Decay or Lightning Axe.
Game 3 - I kept a 6 card hand with Darkblast, a Neonate, and a Bloodstained Mire, so I thought I could keep him off early mana dorks, while also potentially digging for a second land with Neonate, but I missed drawing a second land by a couple turns. He ends up Chording for Scavenging Ooze and that's all she wrote.
[b]1-3[/b] but not dead for top 32 so I give it a go.
[b]Round 5[b] - Affinity
Game 1 - On a mull to 6 my opponent drops 5 cards including a Cranial Plating and my life total goes 20-13-1 dead.
Game 2 - I side in Ancient Grudges and Darkblast, can't remember what I take out but I'm sure it's some Dredgers and maybe a Neonate. I manage to win game 2 on the back of some timely Ancient Grudges and a Stinkweed Imp holding off his team.
Game 3 - I had to mull to 4 as I saw no lands in my 7,6, or 5 card hands. I keep my 4 card hand with Ancient Grudge, Bloodstained Mire, Vengevine and some other card so not great. I manage to win but my opponent (a super great guy) makes a play sequencing error and I manage to win on turn 4 of extra turns.
[b]2-3[/b] Have to win 3 straight matches for a chance of top 32.
[b]Round 6[/b] - UR Storm
Game 1 - I keep a hand with Lotleth Troll and a Gravecrawler but I draw a lot of lands and don't pressure my opponent and he storms out. I bring out Darkblast, Lightning Axe, some Dredgers and bring in 2 Abrupt Decay and a Golgari Charm (for Pyromancer's Ascension) and I think a Gnaw to the Bone.
Game 2 - I keep a forest an overgrown tomb and an Abrupt Decay to hit any Pyromancer's Ascension and I manage to destroy one on my opponents turn 2. I end up dredging pretty hard but the Dredge's are just whiffs most of the time. Several times I dredge 5 or 6 to just reveal lands, spells I can't cast from the yard and more Dredge cards (so I basically time walked myself) and my opponent eventually combos off with Empty the Warrens, and my only Golgari Charm was in the graveyard so I concede.
[b]Match Record:2-4 Game Record:6-9[/b]
Overall, I think I made a lot of misplays by dredging blindly just hoping to hit more Dredgers, or recurring creatures. In game 1 I think that's fine but I think in sideboarded games I have to play a lot more conservatively. Draw cards, hope to hit my sideboard cards and lands and then when I have a line, involving Dredge cards or just Neonates, then I go for it, I can't just blindly Dredge and hope to get there.
Also, I think when siding out creatures I should side out Golgari-Grave Trolls before Stinkweed Imps, but I'm unsure of how to allocate what spells come out when I put sideboard cards in. If in post board games I'm drawing more cards I probably don't want to draw Prized Amalgams, so perhaps some number of those should come out. I also am not sure whether I should leave in Neonates when I remove the big dredgers, or should I take out 1 Neonate for every big Dredge cards I take out, or is it a ratio of 2 Big Dredgers:1 Neonate, I really don't know.
[b]TLDR I think I played pre-sideboard games well, I know the lines, but the whole sideboarding process is a mystery to me, and the post-sideboard games were also quite a disaster.[/b]
The Downside: Thug is a horrible creature in play that is little more than a speedbump. Thug also has Dredge 4 instead of Dredge 5 and occasionally his death ability is a negative (it isn't optional).
The Upside: He costs 1 less than Stinkweed and when he dies he can either put a Neonate on top, which can then sac to Dredge back the Thug and then if you have the mana cast the thug to bring back all the Vengevines and Amalgams from the yard (you do need a card to discard to sac the Neonate, so this line doesn't work if you're hellbent). Another line is when the Thug dies is to put a Lotleth Troll on top, cast it a Gravecrawler from the yard to bring back all the Vengevines and Amalgams.
@psychohz: Would you consider Gemstone Mine over Mana Confluence? I would speculate that having Life from the Loam allows you to get back your Gemstone Mines somewhat regularly. You can even float the mana from Gemstone Mine to cast Life from the Loam to get the Gemstone Mine back and triggering Bloodghasts.
@ivorcosta: The reason I suggested Blood Crypt is so that I can cast two Gravecrawlers on future turns to get back Vengevines, but I do see what you're saying about the Stomping Ground to cast Life from the Loam and having access to all my colours.
On option 2, you don't mention that you can dredge on your draw step on T2 (which seems relevant). If you do that, then you MIGHT hit a dredger, then cast looting and potentially dredge twice more.
Sorry, I probably should have clearer but the line I mentioned for Option 2 involved Dredging for your draw on turn 2 (but again that's only a 70% chance of hitting another Dredge with the Neonate Dredge) and then using Faithless Looting to hopefully Dredge again twice (that's how I get 22-24 cards in the graveyard before I play a land on turn 2).
Actually after sleeping on it I think it's not as bad as I inintially thought to do the calculations for expected # of Bloodghast and Neonates that can return. I'll try to do the calculations later tonight and post the results. If anyone wants to see the calculations send me a PM, I'll try to explain them as best I can.
I'm playing an All-In Dredge version and this was my opening hand:
I was hoping to get some feedback to and see which line of play would be considered better.
Option 1: Play the Verdant Catacombs get Blood Crypt untapped and cast Faithless Looting, probably discarding the Vengevine and the Grave Troll. T2 Dredge 6 for my draw and this sets me up nicely to go Neonate sac Dredge 6 and then cast Gravecrawler to get back at least a Vengevine, but also returning would be any Bloodghasts and Prized Amalgams from the 12 cards that are milled over. Based on my rough calculations I'm expected to get back an additional 2.5 creatures from the 12 cards that are milled over. The average power of the creatures that returns (from the 4 Bloodghasts, 4 Prized Neonates, 3 Vengevines) is about 2.9. So if I multiply the 2.5 by the 2.9 we get an expected 7.25 additional power on the table (this is in addition to the Gravecrawler that we cast and the Vengevine we know is coming back). So this line of play gets an expected 13.25 power on the board on turn 2 and at least 4 of it is haste power. I consider this the safe play.
Option 2: Play the Verdant Catacombs get Blood Crypt untapped and cast Insolent Neonate, on my opponents end step I sac the Neonate and Dredge 6 with the Grave-troll. By running 10 total Dredge spells in the main deck I'm 70% to dredge into at least another Dredge spell. If I hit the Dredge spell I can hopefully go Faithless Looting Dredge and then another Dredge discarding a Dredge card and the Vengevine. It's not inconceivable to end up with 20-25 cards in the graveyard. In that case playing the swamp for the turn can return all the Bloodghasts and Prized Amalgams (if you mill 22 cards you're 90% to get at least 1 Bloodghast, if you mill 12 cards you're 65% to get at least 1 Bloodghast, and you need at least 1 Bloodghast to get all the Prized Amalgams). Then if all goes to plan on turn 3 you can Dredge again another 6 and then almost certainly cast 2 gravecrawlers (either both from the graveyard or one from your graveyard and one from your hand to trigger all the Vengevines, and all the Prized Amalgams if any are left). So on turn 3 your attack is with all the stuff from turn 2 you brought back and then all the Vengevines you brought back on turn 3. It's much harder to do the math because of all the permutations with this line though but if you have roughly half your deck in the graveyard I would estimate it's likely 2 Bloodghasts, 2 Prized Amalgams, 2.5 Vengevines (the 2.5 Vengevines comes from the fact you know the Vengevine from your hand will be in the graveyard and that leaves 3 remaining in your deck so half is 1.5) and attack for 20 power.
So continuing with Option 2 lets say your original Dredge of the Grave-Troll off the Neonate didn't hit any Dredgers, well you can still use your turn to cast Faithless Looting, Drawing 2 cards and then pitching the Grave-Troll and something else and then spending turn 3 Dredging back the Grave-Troll and then proceeding to hopefully cast Gravecrawler from your hand and hopefully one from the graveyard to bring back all your Vengevines + Amalgams (but this is only with 12 or so cards in the yard so it won't be nearly as powerful). I see option 2 as far riskier but with the potential to do more damage.
Does anyone see any reason to go with option 2?
Tonight I went with a 4/2 split on Murderous Cuts and Lightning axes and it felt super effective. I think in the current format Darkblast is a sideboard card. Does anyone on here feel like am making a massive mistake by not running at least 1 Darkblast in the main (I run 2 in the sideboard)
I can't really see how 3 Murderous Cut/2 Lightning Axe/1 Darkblast could really hurt you. It would cut down on times you would open with 2 Murderous Cuts (which I don't think would be very good). I could also see a Sinister Concoction somewhere in there (either for Axe or Cut).
I'm trying to fit more dredge cards, Insolent Neonate, and Prized Amalgam into my list. I've completely dropped Grisly Salvage (I used to run the full 4) and I've shaved certain other creatures that do not care about being in the graveyard. I'm still avoiding the all-in gameplan which can have some very clunky opening hands. I know I'm missing some fetches for my manabase and it is not ideal.
I would like to keep some interaction in the form of Abrupt Decay and I could not cut all of the Satyr Wayfinder as they have proven too useful for me in finding the 3rd land drop, triggering Vengevine and filling the yard. What do you all think of the list?
I don't think Insolent Neonate is a 4 of in a deck with just 4 Dredge cards. Part of the appeal of the Neonate, is dredging on the first turn into more dredge cards, which means a large graveyard earlier in the game.
I think Prized Amalgam deserves to be a 4 of in almost all Dredgevine decks, whether Jund or Sultai. There are just so many ways for it to be returned to play: Gravecrawlers, Bloodghasts, even Vengevines can trigger the Amalgam.
I've never been a huge fan of Gurmag Angler (so maybe my opinion isn't that great) but with the addition of Bloodghasts and Prized Amalgams and actually dredge cards, there are a lot less good options to delve away, and in the past part of me felt like dying after I delved away a Faithless Looting or a Gravecrawler.
There is almost no reason to run the Mountain. You can always say you want to search out the mountain so you can cast faithless looting or neonate on turn 1 but that means you can't play Lotleth Troll/Abrupt Decay on turn 2. I do see you're not running Verdant Catacomb so I can sort of understand the rationale behind the mountain but I don't think it's optimal.
It's been brought up to me before that Grisly Salvage finds Gurmag Angler but Satyr Wayfinder doesn't. I love Wayfinder so maybe that negatively affects my opinion on the Angler.
My list contains 9 spells that are dead in my graveyard (4 Insolent Neonate, 4 Lotleth Troll and 1 Lightning Axe)
The inclusion of a Darkblast in the main is pretty important as I want to keep the number of Dredge cards as large as possible while not completely blanking my deck of removal. I've also Darkblasted my own Gravecrawlers and Bloodghasts to re-cast them or trigger them.
I like including 3 basics for Ghost Quarters, Path to Exiles, Blood Moon and against aggressive decks where life totals matter.
This deck has so many lines of play (at least for me). I mean sometimes you're holding back a Neonate on turn 1 so you can cast Neonate on turn 2, sac it and discard a Vengevine, and cast either another Neonate or a Gravecrawler to trigger the Vengevine. Other games you're running a Lotleth Troll out on turn 2 and practically dumping your entire hand just so you can start dredging. A turn 1 Faithless Looting and choosing between discarding Bloodghast, Prized Amalgam, Stinkweed Imp, and a Golgari-Grave Troll can be an incredibly difficult choice that has so many possible factors.
I would really like to find room for a Tymmaret, the Murder King as I feel like it's another possible chain that we can use to bring back Vengevines and it helps the deck fight through Lantern Control and Wurmcoil Engine. I could run Tymarret in the sideboard and bring him in for those matches or I could cut a Lotleth Troll in the main.
I feel like the new version might just be a budget approach. I do like the interaction of Gemstone Mine and Life from the Loam, but in general I feel like if you want to be casting Life from the Loam playing with the traditional mana base is a better idea as you can get your lands into play untapped more often.
The problem I see with Dakmor Salvage, is that while Dakmor allows you can hit your land drops, the land comes into play tapped (a loss of tempo) and instead of Dredging 5 or 6 you're dredging 2 so your graveyard isn't being filled as fast, which means future turns will be less explosive. I can see running 1 Dakmor salvage if you can fit it in your mana base and you need to up your dredge count. Before I added a second copy of Dakmor I would really examine whether Life from the Loam would be better as I feel they often have the same role in the deck.
I know there are a lot of lines that this deck can take and having multiple creatures on the board on turn 2 is a good way to beat Scavenging Ooze, but I don't think 5 power in the form of a Bloodghast and an Amalgam is enough to beat a turn 2 Scavenging Ooze.
I just don't understand why the list doesn't involve any Lightning Axes. Lightning Axe is just such a huge tempo play, it likely puts 2 cards in the graveyard that we want in the graveyard all for 1 mana.
Dredgevine is pretty tame in comparison to some of complete Dredge lists, but it's also a lot more resilient to actual graveyard hate as well.
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
3 Lotleth Troll
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
1 Golgari Thug
3 Stinkweed Imp
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Vengevine
4 Golgari-Grave Troll
4 Faithless Looting
1 Life from the Loam
1 Darkblast
1 Lightning Axe
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Watery Grave
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Thoughtseize
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Murderous Cut
1 Darkblast
1 Golgari Charm
1 Lightning Axe
I don't have a super detailed tournament report but I'll do my best
[b]Round 1[/b] - UWR Geist
Game 1 - I look at a hand with 3 lands, Faithless Looting, Insolent Neonate, Dredge creature, Vengevine. I'm very happy with this hand and I run him down quite quickly.
Game 2 - I look at an opener with 2 red sources, 1 Faithless Looting, 2 Insolent Neonate, 2 Vengevine. Again I'm super happy with this hand. My line of play is Looting, discard the 2 Vengevines and on turn 2 run out 2 Insolent Neonate to trigger both Vengevines.
[b](1-0)[/b]
[b]Round 2[/b]- UB Ancestral Vision/Thoptor/Sword/Thing in the Ice Combo deck
Game 1 - I can't recall anything special about this game but I manage to beat him down with Bloodghasts and Amalgams while he's suspending Vision.
Note: Thing in the Ice was very good against my deck. A lot of time it just reduces the clock significantly because it blocks the Amalgam and allows a Bloodghast through. I saw the Sword of the Meek, so I sided in Ancient Grudge and an Abrupt Decay
Game 2 - This game I also started strong (so at this point in the tournament I'm thinking I'm doing quite well), I had Looting discarding Bloodghast and Amalgam and then on turn 2 from Landfall trigger I had Bloodghast and Amalgam. Here's where the Thing in the Ices did so much work. I was hitting him each turn for 2 while he developed his board because he kept blocking my Amalgam and only taking 2. So I'm working him down, he lands a Bob and gets land land Slaughter Pact off of it. I'm dredging super hard, I eventually get a big board state and get him down to 7 or 8 life, he flips Thing in the Ice, swings and then plays Kalitas. The next turn I dredge hard play 2 creatures from my hand get back 3 Vengevine, a land to get 3 Bloodghasts and swing team, but has Slaughter Pact and Doom Blade to kill 2 Vengevines and make 2 Zombies onto game 3. I take out Ancient Grudge to put in a Lightning Axe (to kill Kalitas).
Game 3 - This game was a lot of fun, I keep a land with 2 lands, Lotleth Troll and Dredge Creatures, and he turn 1 Inquisitions me! I was surprised to see him keep Inquisition in against me (I asked him later and he said he didn't have anything else better to put in from the sideboard) I won't go into too many details (because it was a long game, lots of Dredging) but needless to say he landed the Thoptor/Sword combo and I was attacking with 3 Vengevine/3 Amalgam/3 Gravecrawlers/1 Bloodghast each turn. It went to turns and I conceded because I had no way of winning and he was able to make enough blockers and gain life.
I feel like I could have won this match, maybe even game 2.
[b](1-1)[/b]
[b]Round 3[/b] - Scapeshift with Prismatic Omen.
Game 1 and Game 2 - I kept a slow hand game 1 and in game 2 I kept a slow 6 that I probably should have mulled. I boarded in 3 Thoughseize and took out Darkblast, Lightning Axe and I think a Gravetroll.
Matchup seems very difficult they just ramp, and I can't interact very easily with them and then they just cast Scapeshift dealing 54 damage or something from 3 Valakuts and 3 Mountains. I don't know if Gnaw to the Bone is even worth it if they have Prismatic Omen because they can do so much more damage than Gnaw usually will gain.
[b](1-2)[/b]
[b]Round 4[/b] - Elves
Game 1 - He mulled to 5 and I steamrolled him. In came Golgari Charm, Abrupt Decay, Lightning Axe, Darkblast out went Stinkweed, Gravetroll and 2 Neonate
Game 2 - He landed a turn 2 Ooze, and that was basically it, as I didn't see any interaction in Abrupt Decay or Lightning Axe.
Game 3 - I kept a 6 card hand with Darkblast, a Neonate, and a Bloodstained Mire, so I thought I could keep him off early mana dorks, while also potentially digging for a second land with Neonate, but I missed drawing a second land by a couple turns. He ends up Chording for Scavenging Ooze and that's all she wrote.
[b]1-3[/b] but not dead for top 32 so I give it a go.
[b]Round 5[b] - Affinity
Game 1 - On a mull to 6 my opponent drops 5 cards including a Cranial Plating and my life total goes 20-13-1 dead.
Game 2 - I side in Ancient Grudges and Darkblast, can't remember what I take out but I'm sure it's some Dredgers and maybe a Neonate. I manage to win game 2 on the back of some timely Ancient Grudges and a Stinkweed Imp holding off his team.
Game 3 - I had to mull to 4 as I saw no lands in my 7,6, or 5 card hands. I keep my 4 card hand with Ancient Grudge, Bloodstained Mire, Vengevine and some other card so not great. I manage to win but my opponent (a super great guy) makes a play sequencing error and I manage to win on turn 4 of extra turns.
[b]2-3[/b] Have to win 3 straight matches for a chance of top 32.
[b]Round 6[/b] - UR Storm
Game 1 - I keep a hand with Lotleth Troll and a Gravecrawler but I draw a lot of lands and don't pressure my opponent and he storms out. I bring out Darkblast, Lightning Axe, some Dredgers and bring in 2 Abrupt Decay and a Golgari Charm (for Pyromancer's Ascension) and I think a Gnaw to the Bone.
Game 2 - I keep a forest an overgrown tomb and an Abrupt Decay to hit any Pyromancer's Ascension and I manage to destroy one on my opponents turn 2. I end up dredging pretty hard but the Dredge's are just whiffs most of the time. Several times I dredge 5 or 6 to just reveal lands, spells I can't cast from the yard and more Dredge cards (so I basically time walked myself) and my opponent eventually combos off with Empty the Warrens, and my only Golgari Charm was in the graveyard so I concede.
[b]Match Record:2-4 Game Record:6-9[/b]
Overall, I think I made a lot of misplays by dredging blindly just hoping to hit more Dredgers, or recurring creatures. In game 1 I think that's fine but I think in sideboarded games I have to play a lot more conservatively. Draw cards, hope to hit my sideboard cards and lands and then when I have a line, involving Dredge cards or just Neonates, then I go for it, I can't just blindly Dredge and hope to get there.
Also, I think when siding out creatures I should side out Golgari-Grave Trolls before Stinkweed Imps, but I'm unsure of how to allocate what spells come out when I put sideboard cards in. If in post board games I'm drawing more cards I probably don't want to draw Prized Amalgams, so perhaps some number of those should come out. I also am not sure whether I should leave in Neonates when I remove the big dredgers, or should I take out 1 Neonate for every big Dredge cards I take out, or is it a ratio of 2 Big Dredgers:1 Neonate, I really don't know.
[b]TLDR I think I played pre-sideboard games well, I know the lines, but the whole sideboarding process is a mystery to me, and the post-sideboard games were also quite a disaster.[/b]
The Downside: Thug is a horrible creature in play that is little more than a speedbump. Thug also has Dredge 4 instead of Dredge 5 and occasionally his death ability is a negative (it isn't optional).
The Upside: He costs 1 less than Stinkweed and when he dies he can either put a Neonate on top, which can then sac to Dredge back the Thug and then if you have the mana cast the thug to bring back all the Vengevines and Amalgams from the yard (you do need a card to discard to sac the Neonate, so this line doesn't work if you're hellbent). Another line is when the Thug dies is to put a Lotleth Troll on top, cast it a Gravecrawler from the yard to bring back all the Vengevines and Amalgams.
Is there anything I'm missing?
Sorry, I probably should have clearer but the line I mentioned for Option 2 involved Dredging for your draw on turn 2 (but again that's only a 70% chance of hitting another Dredge with the Neonate Dredge) and then using Faithless Looting to hopefully Dredge again twice (that's how I get 22-24 cards in the graveyard before I play a land on turn 2).
Actually after sleeping on it I think it's not as bad as I inintially thought to do the calculations for expected # of Bloodghast and Neonates that can return. I'll try to do the calculations later tonight and post the results. If anyone wants to see the calculations send me a PM, I'll try to explain them as best I can.
I was hoping to get some feedback to and see which line of play would be considered better.
Option 1: Play the Verdant Catacombs get Blood Crypt untapped and cast Faithless Looting, probably discarding the Vengevine and the Grave Troll. T2 Dredge 6 for my draw and this sets me up nicely to go Neonate sac Dredge 6 and then cast Gravecrawler to get back at least a Vengevine, but also returning would be any Bloodghasts and Prized Amalgams from the 12 cards that are milled over. Based on my rough calculations I'm expected to get back an additional 2.5 creatures from the 12 cards that are milled over. The average power of the creatures that returns (from the 4 Bloodghasts, 4 Prized Neonates, 3 Vengevines) is about 2.9. So if I multiply the 2.5 by the 2.9 we get an expected 7.25 additional power on the table (this is in addition to the Gravecrawler that we cast and the Vengevine we know is coming back). So this line of play gets an expected 13.25 power on the board on turn 2 and at least 4 of it is haste power. I consider this the safe play.
Option 2: Play the Verdant Catacombs get Blood Crypt untapped and cast Insolent Neonate, on my opponents end step I sac the Neonate and Dredge 6 with the Grave-troll. By running 10 total Dredge spells in the main deck I'm 70% to dredge into at least another Dredge spell. If I hit the Dredge spell I can hopefully go Faithless Looting Dredge and then another Dredge discarding a Dredge card and the Vengevine. It's not inconceivable to end up with 20-25 cards in the graveyard. In that case playing the swamp for the turn can return all the Bloodghasts and Prized Amalgams (if you mill 22 cards you're 90% to get at least 1 Bloodghast, if you mill 12 cards you're 65% to get at least 1 Bloodghast, and you need at least 1 Bloodghast to get all the Prized Amalgams). Then if all goes to plan on turn 3 you can Dredge again another 6 and then almost certainly cast 2 gravecrawlers (either both from the graveyard or one from your graveyard and one from your hand to trigger all the Vengevines, and all the Prized Amalgams if any are left). So on turn 3 your attack is with all the stuff from turn 2 you brought back and then all the Vengevines you brought back on turn 3. It's much harder to do the math because of all the permutations with this line though but if you have roughly half your deck in the graveyard I would estimate it's likely 2 Bloodghasts, 2 Prized Amalgams, 2.5 Vengevines (the 2.5 Vengevines comes from the fact you know the Vengevine from your hand will be in the graveyard and that leaves 3 remaining in your deck so half is 1.5) and attack for 20 power.
So continuing with Option 2 lets say your original Dredge of the Grave-Troll off the Neonate didn't hit any Dredgers, well you can still use your turn to cast Faithless Looting, Drawing 2 cards and then pitching the Grave-Troll and something else and then spending turn 3 Dredging back the Grave-Troll and then proceeding to hopefully cast Gravecrawler from your hand and hopefully one from the graveyard to bring back all your Vengevines + Amalgams (but this is only with 12 or so cards in the yard so it won't be nearly as powerful). I see option 2 as far riskier but with the potential to do more damage.
Does anyone see any reason to go with option 2?
I can't really see how 3 Murderous Cut/2 Lightning Axe/1 Darkblast could really hurt you. It would cut down on times you would open with 2 Murderous Cuts (which I don't think would be very good). I could also see a Sinister Concoction somewhere in there (either for Axe or Cut).
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Bloodghast
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Vengevine
4 Golgari-Grave Troll
4 Faithless Looting
1 Life from the Loam
1 Darkblast
1 Lightning Axe
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Watery Grave
2 Swamp
1 Forest