My buddy is playing ramp, and I am getting completely wrecked by Worldbreaker. How are you guys dealing with ramp decks in general? Sideboard recommendations?
Didn't get a chance to go to FNM last night, but this is the list I plan on running next Friday. Still unsure about my SB as I don't know how my meta looks just yet.
This might be a bad question, but I have to ask it. How awful is this deck without the 4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy? I know he's a fantastic card, allowing this deck to filter and play discarded Ins/Sor from the yard, but for someone who doesn't want to spend the $ on a playset, yet still has interest in the theme and play-style presented, are there any other options that are viable?
I don't think allies has enough synergy to warp your deck around slightly worse creatures. The aggressive creatures in White and Green (and Reflector Mage) are better than most of the allies and have a better payoff.
Tireless Tracker is crazy good and helps you in the inevitable board stalls and after board wipes. I'm still at 6 1 drops though I'm considering changing Dragon Hunter into Thraben Inspector.
Militia Captain wasn't worth keeping in the main but is still really good against some decks, so I put it into the sideboard. Dragonslayer has also been pretty good out of the board in certain spots.
Edit: as for GW Company I'll admit that I'm not that big of a fan of the Deathmist/Protector package. It's been pretty clunky whenever I tried it and I found that I just wanted Thalia's Lieutenant and Hangarback Walker more. Josh Silvestri posted a list for it here where he suspects the same thing that I do.
Keep in mind that these are only initial reactions though, since I haven't put in as much time on that deck as I have on pure aggressive human decks.
I know you kind of say it in your post, but is this build basically an aggro deck? Or does it have the ability to slow up and be more tempo/midrange-y?
After some thought, I really think I like the W/G version of this deck more. A lot of the creatures just have more value, and don't rely on Always Watching to be truly great. Den Protector + Deathmist will continue to be insane in this format, and I just love the immense value all of the creatures bring, rather than just being beats. I know this thread is called aggressive humans, and this deck isn't really so much about the humans, but there isn't anything on page 1 focusing on W/G Aggro / Midrange. Maybe it's time I write a primer?
The list I'm testing right now is very "Counter Rebels" style. It's a fun little list. I'm not on a sideboard yet, but it will have Archangel Avacyn and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in the board somewhere.
Essence Flux is really good. Like, insane in the membrane good. Archangel is the only non-Human, but it's really good with Always Watching. Dragonlord Ojutai is really good out of the sideboard as well. I had that and Archangel Avacyn in the original list, but it made my Thalia's Lieutenants a little worse in game one. This deck isn't super super explosive, but it is incredibly resilient and it has some really crazy lines where you play 1 drop, Lieutenant, 1 drop with negate mana up and just run them over. Also, blinking Thalia's Lieutenant is pretty much insane.
I dig your list a lot, it's clean and seems solid. Do any testing with Dragonlord? Is this deck supposed to be super fast and aggressive or is it more tempo/midrangey ? Cheers!
I tested with Dragonlord. He is good, but he makes your Lieutenants weaker so I have him slotted in the board. The list is very tempo oriented and you arent trying to go very wide. You really want to put 2-3 guys in play and ride them to the finish line and its relatively easy to do with Negates and Blinks. It does have some really explosive draws that center around blinking your Lieutenant and it can kill relatively quickly.
Awesome man! I haven't had a chance to test yet, and I really like this archetype, but I don't want to play purely aggro this format, so something more tempo/Midrange oriented is what I'm thinking, and I think the U/W version of this deck is a solid shot at that.
The list I'm testing right now is very "Counter Rebels" style. It's a fun little list. I'm not on a sideboard yet, but it will have Archangel Avacyn and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in the board somewhere.
Essence Flux is really good. Like, insane in the membrane good. Archangel is the only non-Human, but it's really good with Always Watching. Dragonlord Ojutai is really good out of the sideboard as well. I had that and Archangel Avacyn in the original list, but it made my Thalia's Lieutenants a little worse in game one. This deck isn't super super explosive, but it is incredibly resilient and it has some really crazy lines where you play 1 drop, Lieutenant, 1 drop with negate mana up and just run them over. Also, blinking Thalia's Lieutenant is pretty much insane.
I dig your list a lot, it's clean and seems solid. Do any testing with Dragonlord? Is this deck supposed to be super fast and aggressive or is it more tempo/midrangey ? Cheers!
I really want to make a more tempoish feel of this deck, I don't want to just go full aggro with it. Reflector mage is fantastic, Ojutai works really well with with Always watching.
I'm trying to see if Avacyn can squeeze her way in here, seems like a great bomb. Same with Gideon, AOZ.
In B/W, I prefer Vizkopa Guildmage over Sanguine Bond. Just a handful, you don't really want to see her until the late game.
Bond is fairly expensive at 5, and only does anything once you get your lifelinkers swinging. It is fairly resilient as an enchantment.
The guildmage is easy to place on the field at 2 mana. You can always use her as a chump blocker early on if absolutely necessary. Once you have 5 mana sources, you can drop her and activate her ability for the turn even if they have immediate removal. You are also only a small step away from being able to activate her second ability twice at that point in the game, and that's where the blowout life swings can happen. Also, while less impressive than her second ability, you can always use her first to grant lifelink to obzedat or some other creature if you can't find your whip. She is fragile as a creature, but I usually don't care too terribly much if my opponent is spending their removal/counter magic on a 2 drop.
That's kind of the great thing about it. At it's best, you swing for massive damage with Baron or even more if you have a Whip of Erebos out, and at it's worst, your opponent is wasting there good cards on a 2 drop. Something to think about to be sure.
Here is my current list, I unfortunately missed out on last nights FNM, but played enough scratch games to get a good feel for the deck.
My previous build was just getting obliterated by aggro decks, and then I added Devour Flesh, along with High Priest of Pennance and now my aggro friends don't want to even play this deck. They're that good here.
Well, I play 4 Blood Baron and 4 Alms Beast, so I guess they are, yeah. And yeah, he is very easily chumped, especially since most decks that aren't pure control play 20-30 creatures. Or token producers. Or worse: both.
Definitely understandable. How about Obzedaddy? The Whip synergy seems too delicious to pass up.
Desecration Demon is a bit of a Browbeat. But it's also a Browbeat where there is potentially no bad choice. Desecration Demon + Whip of Erebos does nothing, which can prove fatal, even if your Demon is 11/11 and all ready to eat alive your opponent. He is always chumpblocked when it matters. I was playing 4 Demons and 2 Alms Beast, then a 3/3 split, and I now just play 4 Alms Beast because it actually is a reliable blocker.
Man I see a lot of DD hate. Is he really that chumped? I don't have experience with him which is why I may seem oblivious and why I keep asking.
Is it really more about your meta? Or is he just not going to be a thing in Theros standard?
Does Alms beast & Obzedat / Blood Baron become your big swinger then?
2x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4x Thraben Inspector
4x Consul's Lieutenant
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
4x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Reflector Mage
4x Archangel of Tithes
2x Dragonlord Ojutai
1x Archangel Avacyn
4x Always Watching
3x Declaration in Stone
Land: 24
4x Port Town
4x Prairie Stream
14x Plains
1x Island
1x Westvale Abbey
I know you kind of say it in your post, but is this build basically an aggro deck? Or does it have the ability to slow up and be more tempo/midrange-y?
4 bygone bishop
4 Sylvan advocate
4 tireless tracker
4 deathmist raptor
4 den protector
3 duskwatch recruiter
3 hidden dragonslayer
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 collected company
4 dromoka's command
Land
1 westvale abbey
4 canopy Vista
4 fortified village
3 evolving wilds
7 forest
5 Plains
Awesome man! I haven't had a chance to test yet, and I really like this archetype, but I don't want to play purely aggro this format, so something more tempo/Midrange oriented is what I'm thinking, and I think the U/W version of this deck is a solid shot at that.
I dig your list a lot, it's clean and seems solid. Do any testing with Dragonlord? Is this deck supposed to be super fast and aggressive or is it more tempo/midrangey ? Cheers!
3 archangel avacyn
4 bygone bishop
4 Sylvan advocate
4 tireless tracker
4 deathmist raptor
3 den protector
3 duskwatch recruiter
2 hidden dragonslayer
2 nissa, vastwood seer
4 collected company
3 dromokas command
Land
1 westvale abbey
4 canopy Vista
4 fortified village
3 evolving wilds
7 forest
5 Plains
4 Archangel of Tithes
4 Consul's Lieutenant
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Reflector Mage
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Hanweir Militia Captain
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
2 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
3 Always Watching
3 Silkwrap
2 Declaration in Stone
Lands (24)
2 Island
12 Plains
2 Meandering River
4 Port Town
4 Prairie Stream
I really want to make a more tempoish feel of this deck, I don't want to just go full aggro with it. Reflector mage is fantastic, Ojutai works really well with with Always watching.
I'm trying to see if Avacyn can squeeze her way in here, seems like a great bomb. Same with Gideon, AOZ.
That's kind of the great thing about it. At it's best, you swing for massive damage with Baron or even more if you have a Whip of Erebos out, and at it's worst, your opponent is wasting there good cards on a 2 drop. Something to think about to be sure.
I dunno, taking two life isn't always optimal, however every time I drew into a thoughtseize I was happy.
However I do think Underworld can be sided especially since I'm playing Read the Bones.
I think I'd probably swap out 2 Hero's Downfall for 2 Underworld COnnections vs. control
My previous build was just getting obliterated by aggro decks, and then I added Devour Flesh, along with High Priest of Pennance and now my aggro friends don't want to even play this deck. They're that good here.
Anyways, here's the current list!
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Alm's Beast
4 Sin Collector
2 Blood Baron Of Vizkopa
4 Lifebane Zombie
Planeswalkers: 1
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Other Spells: 18
2 Whip Of Erebos
2 Underworld Connections
3 Read the Bones
3 Devour Flesh
4 Thought Seize
4 Doom Blade
12 Swamp
5 Plains
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
4 High Priest of Pennance
4 Desecration Demon
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Illness in the Ranks
4 ???
Still working on a sideboard according to the local scene.
Definitely understandable. How about Obzedaddy? The Whip synergy seems too delicious to pass up.
Man I see a lot of DD hate. Is he really that chumped? I don't have experience with him which is why I may seem oblivious and why I keep asking.
Is it really more about your meta? Or is he just not going to be a thing in Theros standard?
Does Alms beast & Obzedat / Blood Baron become your big swinger then?