Unsubstantiate is less conditional than Envelop - the opponent shouldn't have enough mana to recast the spell on the same turn, and by the next we'll have drawn another counter.
Beast Within has been on the chopping board for quite some time, going to try out Wrap in Vigor over it and see how many times it's a dead card.
With the amount of cards this deck discards, Temporal Trespass is almost always going to cost 3, making it a better wincon than Biomass Mutation.
I realize it's been a while but was wondering if this deck is being updated still.
Caustic Caterpillar is worth it. I used it to destroy Ghostly Prison after he already had Propaganda out. That sucked. I tutored for the Caterpillar with GS Zenith and popped it.
Ah man, I can't believe it's been over a year since I had a chance to update any of my decks. Unfortunately just haven't had time to play. I do want to at some point though - just not sure when...
The great auroura Elemental Bond and flameshadow Conjuring are all played by me and I like them.
Also Oath of Druids is SUPER fun. When you play someone who plays a 1/1 turns 1/2 and your turn 3 flip into an eldrazi or balefire you wreck the board. I found it has really good synergy with Congregation at dawn.
Just Curious why did you take out the following?
-1 Vigor-Free Protection+Powers up your guys
-1 Privileged Position-Free Protection?
-1 Lurking Predators- Free fatties?
-1 Stalking Vengeance- I consistently win games by boardwiping myself.
Im looking at getting a position but I don't want to spend $12 to not use it if you know something I don't. I'm not going to lie your decklist looks reallly cool.
Oath of Druids is a cool card, but I just don't like giving my opponents free creatures, even if mine may end up being better in the long run. It's (imo) better in decks that only have a few key or game-ending creatures. It is good with library manipulation though. I may try it out sometime, I'll add it to my list of other considerations for now.
As for those cuts, as I kept playing the deck, and new cards came out, it became harder and harder to cut cards as only the best of the best were left, and it came to a point where I had to let good cards go.
Vigor was great, and it's one of those cards that could eventually make it back into the deck. It was only take out to try new things, and I wouldn't blame anyone for running it. It's only downsides are that it doesn't do anything by itself, as it doesn't pump itself, and can just be blocked and killed, so it often acts more as an enchantment than a creature, except it's easier to remove. I still have my altered one, and it may go back in the future.
Privileged Position: Another card I wouldn't blame anyone for running. Over time I just didn't find it as useful, and wanted to try new things over it. I still have other ways of protecting my board like Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Archetype of Endurance, but I could see Privileged Position making another appearance in the future.
Lurking Predators: I've cut and re-added Lurking Predators 3 times so far lol. Sometimes it's great, and other times, it's not. Most recently it was cut to try out See the Unwritten in it's place. I unfortunately haven't played this deck enough time since then to cast See the Unwritten enough times - but hopefully when I do some proper testing, I can make a decision on which one I want to keep and which one I'm ok with putting aside for now.
Stalking Vengeance: I don't run that many Wraths, so I wasn't in control of what happened with Stalking Vengeance (unless I had Greater Good out), but it was mainly used as an anti-wrath card. Over time it just got less appealing though, as I found more effective ways of protecting the team or ending the game myself.
But yeah, each of the cards you mentioned is still a good card. As for getting a Privileged Position - go for it, it will be a good addition, and it's a good card to have anyway. I just keep switching things up, trying new things, to keep the deck kinda new/fresh, and things often do get taken out only to get added back in at a later date.
Thanks for having a look at my list though I'll try make the BFZ update soon. I'll also make sure to keep the cards you mentioned in mind, in case there's a spot available for them
As for suggestions you asked for concerning alternate wincons that don't combo out: Hatred. With enough life and cast on an unblocked commander, you can easily take someone out of the game seemingly from out of nowhere. I also think that Profane Command is good for taking someone out and the rest of the options are good utility. Consume Spirit is another solid wincon given all the mana plus it nets you life for when things get a little hectic.
Have you analyzed the latest Battle for Zendikar set? There're a lot of cards that give value when you place exiled cards into an opponent's graveyard. Granted, most of them are pretty worthless, but there could probably be something there (or in the next set, at last).
Thank you
Hatred is definitely a good suggestion, although I'm not sure how often my Commander will be able to get through. I'll definitely consider it for my next update though.
Profane Command and obviously a good card, but I don't think I'd use modes 2 and 4 too often, making it not as good in this deck. They can be good now and then, but most of the time, are going to do nothing.
With Consume Spirit - I don't like that I can only spend Black mana, cause this deck can make a LOT of colourless mana, and also, it only hits one player, unlike Exsanguinate which just wins you the game.
I think Thespian's Stage will definitely go in, not sure why I hadn't considered it earlier. If it performs exceptionally, then I'll add Vesuva as an additional copy.
I hadn't thought of using cards exiled by Macar as paying for the cost of the new cards though. Thanks for pointing at out to me
As for BFZ, unfortunately I've been too busy to update my decks, but I've shortlisted the cards that may make the cut. They include: Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (just as a win con that can remove things, and isn't that hard to cast in this deck), Ob Nixilis Reignited (card draw and removal, what more can you ask for), Hedron Archive (another mana rock that can draw me cards), and Blighted Fen (removal on a land seems good). But I'm still not sure if all of them will make the cut, what I'm prepared to remove from the deck to make space for them, etc. Hopefully I'll have time to update all my decks soon...
Thanks for the interest and all the suggestions though! I really appreciate it
I just checked it out and it looks perfect on Chrome/Opera, and also on my iPhone, but it does look broken on Firefox - not sure how I can fix that. :/
So where does Zulaport Cutthroat fit into this deck? At the very least, I feel that he should replace Blood Artist because we sacrifice a lot of the time and he hits every opponent rather than just one.
Oh yeah, for sure. For us, he's a strict upgrade. I'll try make the BFZ update sometime this week
- Oblation, + Path to Exile
- Chaos Warp, + Beast Within
- tutors, Rings of Brighthearth, or Mana Reflection, +2 lands
Thanks for the suggestions!
Even though Oblation & Chaos Warp can't tuck Commanders now, I still really like the cards. More than Beast Within, which I know hits lands unlike Oblation, but to me being able to hit a Indestructible threat, or making it so a threat is in an opponents library rather than their graveyard is more important. I know both of them have drawbacks, Chaos Warp's is often negligible, and when casting Oblation the permanent you're destroying should always be worth the draw 2 effect. I do like Path to Exile, obviously, is a staple, but being able to hit non-creature permanents is also worth the 2 extra mana imo.
I do agree with you about the lands, I know I need to add 2 more in, but Rings of Brighthearth is so awesome in here - being able to activate Mayael twice often means winning the game twice as fast. It also works with 20% of the deck.
Mana Reflection is another card I don't really want to let go of - I know I still have Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, but I have already cut Mirari's Wake in the past. Resolving it can often turn the tide of the game, or just help you win that much faster.
As for Tutors, Enlightened Tutor & Worldly Tutor, other than doing what they do very efficiently, can both put creatures on top of the library for Mayael, letting you put what you need directly into play.
Alhammarret's Archive is amazing when you're running 8+ wheel effects like I am. Drawing 14 from a Wheel of Fortune is outstanding.
Also, I'm running only 2 mountains and Steam Vents + Volcanic Island (Plus on and off-color fetches) to maximize High Tide's explosiveness.
And I've found Dreamscape Artist to be extraordinary in that respect.
8 wheels, damn. I'm only running 4 But it looks like it can still be insane in certain situations, even if it is a 5 CMC artifact. I might try it out at some point, maybe just goldfish with it.
As for High Tide - I'm not playing it cause I only run 11 Islands >_>
Notes: Origins Update. Added an excellent tutor & draw card, replaced Brainspoil which is a sub-par tutor and removal spell, and Vicious Shadows - which is a great card, but I believe I have enough win cons as it is.
-1 Grayscaled Gharial
-1 Jukai Messenger
-1 Merfolk Spy
-1 Marsh Boa
-1 Envelop
-1 Beast Within
-1 Biomass Mutation
+1 Mausoleum Wanderer
+1 Slither Blade
+1 Mist-Cloaked Herald
+1 Siren Stormtamer
+1 Unsubstantiate
+1 Wrap in Vigor
+1 Temporal Trespass
Notes: Finally able to play Magic again, so have updated the deck with the past 10 sets!
Mausoleum Wanderer, Slither Blade, Mist-Cloaked Herald & Siren Stormtamer were practically made for this deck. Cut creatures with less reliable evasion to fit them.
Unsubstantiate is less conditional than Envelop - the opponent shouldn't have enough mana to recast the spell on the same turn, and by the next we'll have drawn another counter.
Beast Within has been on the chopping board for quite some time, going to try out Wrap in Vigor over it and see how many times it's a dead card.
With the amount of cards this deck discards, Temporal Trespass is almost always going to cost 3, making it a better wincon than Biomass Mutation.
It should be going into every Edric deck!
Ah man, I can't believe it's been over a year since I had a chance to update any of my decks. Unfortunately just haven't had time to play. I do want to at some point though - just not sure when...
I don't love Caustic Caterpillar, mainly because it doesn't have evasion, but I could consider running it over Beast Within?
Oath of Druids is a cool card, but I just don't like giving my opponents free creatures, even if mine may end up being better in the long run. It's (imo) better in decks that only have a few key or game-ending creatures. It is good with library manipulation though. I may try it out sometime, I'll add it to my list of other considerations for now.
As for those cuts, as I kept playing the deck, and new cards came out, it became harder and harder to cut cards as only the best of the best were left, and it came to a point where I had to let good cards go.
Vigor was great, and it's one of those cards that could eventually make it back into the deck. It was only take out to try new things, and I wouldn't blame anyone for running it. It's only downsides are that it doesn't do anything by itself, as it doesn't pump itself, and can just be blocked and killed, so it often acts more as an enchantment than a creature, except it's easier to remove. I still have my altered one, and it may go back in the future.
Privileged Position: Another card I wouldn't blame anyone for running. Over time I just didn't find it as useful, and wanted to try new things over it. I still have other ways of protecting my board like Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Archetype of Endurance, but I could see Privileged Position making another appearance in the future.
Lurking Predators: I've cut and re-added Lurking Predators 3 times so far lol. Sometimes it's great, and other times, it's not. Most recently it was cut to try out See the Unwritten in it's place. I unfortunately haven't played this deck enough time since then to cast See the Unwritten enough times - but hopefully when I do some proper testing, I can make a decision on which one I want to keep and which one I'm ok with putting aside for now.
Stalking Vengeance: I don't run that many Wraths, so I wasn't in control of what happened with Stalking Vengeance (unless I had Greater Good out), but it was mainly used as an anti-wrath card. Over time it just got less appealing though, as I found more effective ways of protecting the team or ending the game myself.
But yeah, each of the cards you mentioned is still a good card. As for getting a Privileged Position - go for it, it will be a good addition, and it's a good card to have anyway. I just keep switching things up, trying new things, to keep the deck kinda new/fresh, and things often do get taken out only to get added back in at a later date.
Thanks for having a look at my list though I'll try make the BFZ update soon. I'll also make sure to keep the cards you mentioned in mind, in case there's a spot available for them
Thank you
Hatred is definitely a good suggestion, although I'm not sure how often my Commander will be able to get through. I'll definitely consider it for my next update though.
Profane Command and obviously a good card, but I don't think I'd use modes 2 and 4 too often, making it not as good in this deck. They can be good now and then, but most of the time, are going to do nothing.
With Consume Spirit - I don't like that I can only spend Black mana, cause this deck can make a LOT of colourless mana, and also, it only hits one player, unlike Exsanguinate which just wins you the game.
I think Thespian's Stage will definitely go in, not sure why I hadn't considered it earlier. If it performs exceptionally, then I'll add Vesuva as an additional copy.
I hadn't thought of using cards exiled by Macar as paying for the cost of the new cards though. Thanks for pointing at out to me
As for BFZ, unfortunately I've been too busy to update my decks, but I've shortlisted the cards that may make the cut. They include: Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (just as a win con that can remove things, and isn't that hard to cast in this deck), Ob Nixilis Reignited (card draw and removal, what more can you ask for), Hedron Archive (another mana rock that can draw me cards), and Blighted Fen (removal on a land seems good). But I'm still not sure if all of them will make the cut, what I'm prepared to remove from the deck to make space for them, etc. Hopefully I'll have time to update all my decks soon...
Thanks for the interest and all the suggestions though! I really appreciate it
Are you using Firefox?
I just checked it out and it looks perfect on Chrome/Opera, and also on my iPhone, but it does look broken on Firefox - not sure how I can fix that. :/
Oh yeah, for sure. For us, he's a strict upgrade. I'll try make the BFZ update sometime this week
Awesome, keep me updated with how you go.
I think Blighted Cataract might make the cut? Maybe Vampiric Rites too? Nothing else from the set seems amazing but I'm considering Oblivion Sower (if only it said player and not opponent), Brilliant Spectrum, Ugin's Insight, Ob Nixilis Reignited, Painful Truths, Kiora, Master of the Depths, Sire of Stagnation, Blighted Woodland, & Lumbering Falls.
Feel free to let me know your thoughts too.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Even though Oblation & Chaos Warp can't tuck Commanders now, I still really like the cards. More than Beast Within, which I know hits lands unlike Oblation, but to me being able to hit a Indestructible threat, or making it so a threat is in an opponents library rather than their graveyard is more important. I know both of them have drawbacks, Chaos Warp's is often negligible, and when casting Oblation the permanent you're destroying should always be worth the draw 2 effect. I do like Path to Exile, obviously, is a staple, but being able to hit non-creature permanents is also worth the 2 extra mana imo.
I do agree with you about the lands, I know I need to add 2 more in, but Rings of Brighthearth is so awesome in here - being able to activate Mayael twice often means winning the game twice as fast. It also works with 20% of the deck.
Mana Reflection is another card I don't really want to let go of - I know I still have Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, but I have already cut Mirari's Wake in the past. Resolving it can often turn the tide of the game, or just help you win that much faster.
As for Tutors, Enlightened Tutor & Worldly Tutor, other than doing what they do very efficiently, can both put creatures on top of the library for Mayael, letting you put what you need directly into play.
I do appreciate your input though
I haven't tried it, but I don't think the deck needs it. It costs 4 mana, which is a lot in this deck - and it doesn't even win me the game.
8 wheels, damn. I'm only running 4 But it looks like it can still be insane in certain situations, even if it is a 5 CMC artifact. I might try it out at some point, maybe just goldfish with it.
As for High Tide - I'm not playing it cause I only run 11 Islands >_>
-1 Hollowsage
+1 Sculpting Steel
Notes: Origins Update.
A lot of pieces have to be active for Hollowsage to be truly amazing, Sculpting Steel on the other hand can copy like half the deck.
Considerations from Origins included Alhammarret's Archive, Dark Petition, Foundry of the Consuls, Mage-Ring Network, & Sword of the Animist.
-1 Brainspoil
-1 Vicious Shadows
+1 Vampiric Tutor
+1 Night's Whisper
Notes: Origins Update. Added an excellent tutor & draw card, replaced Brainspoil which is a sub-par tutor and removal spell, and Vicious Shadows - which is a great card, but I believe I have enough win cons as it is.
Considerations from the actual set included Animist's Awakening, Dark Petition, Kothophed, Soul Hoarder, Liliana, Defiant Necromancer, & Shadows of the Past.