Welcome to the community. I had similar feelings playing in my first legacy tourney about month ago now. I still remember one game against a BUG Stiflenought deck. We were both down to only a few cards. I had no choice but to play my Bob even while being at only 3 or 4 life. I got crazy luck with my Bob flips since most of them were lands. I eventually drew a Jitte to gain life back and get back into the game. Eventually he just gave up because I was going to grind him out anyways. It was a good night.
1. Counter spells in general are not good enough to shut you down completely since there are too many good targets for them. It only hurts when they're about to combo off on you or if they have Counter-Top online. I know most people not playing combo side out their Force of Wills since Jund has the ability to play the long game and they don't want to get too behind on cards.
2. The popularity of Jund is not a big enough issue to warrant any bannings from what I gather. Jund has been putting up good results in recent months, but that usually happens when the meta becomes filled with fair decks that have better game against combo (ex. Esper Stoneblade, RUG Delver, etc.). Then when decks like Jund are on top, combo makes a come back.
What happens when those customers who own non-Modern cards become a small minority? Let's say 10 or 15 years down the road, assuming the game stays healthy and growing, only 1% of players really own many Legacy cards of value. That's probably pretty close to accurate. Doesn't it make more sense to have an "Eternal" format where they can control the supply and profit from reprints as well as new sets? Financially speaking, Modern (or something like it) is a no brainer to fill that role you're talking about.
I'd agree with you that Modern is more financially stable than Legacy in the long run (mostly because of the reserved list). However, I don't see Modern becoming the eternal format of choice in at least another five years at least. The real issue Wizards is having right now is finding a balance with Modern's card pool that neither seems too broken nor too underpowered. IMO, they've gone a bit too far towards the underpowered end of the spectrum, which is why I've been working on getting into Legacy. Even with built-in financial sustainability, Modern needs to find a more stable, positive identity than being the 'banhammer happy' format like Weapon X said.
I haven't really stopped playing the deck fully, but you could say that I've grown weary of playing my Jund deck without BBE since she was the center of the deck's cool factor and drew me to the deck in the first place (Not someone who picked up Jund just because it was the best deck post-RtR; was working on building it before Deathrite Shaman came out). The only reason I'm still playing it is because it's the only deck I can build right now but I'll probably build another deck soon or just stop playing modern till I see what happens with the banlist when Dragon's Maze gets released. So for me one deck you could say. Though, they pre-emptively killed storm for me since that was the next deck I was planning on building before they put the final nail in the coffin for it.
Hello fellow Jund players. In trying find a legacy deck to get into the format, I'm considering Punishing Jund. The biggest reason I'm thinking about building it is because I already have a good deal of the expensive stuff for the MD from playing Jund in Modern. What's holding me back is, from what I've heard, while Jund has game against all fair decks, it's also soft to combo. I maybe overestimating how soft it is to combo though since I haven't played legacy all that much so I don't know how to really evaluate statements like that. Should being soft to combo be a factor in my decision?
I'm looking to seriously determine which legacy deck I want to buy into. I'm someone who typically likes to play midrange, control, or tempo. The deck would mostly be for playing at my school's magic club legacy tournaments and a store that supports legacy tournaments, though I'd still like to be able to take it to a big tournament like a SCG Open if there ever is one nearby.
My magic club meta, in terms of legacy, consists of Maverick, Zombardment, Belcher, Dredge, Reanimator, Burn, and a BW Tokens brew. Decks I've been considering: Jund, Esper Stoneblade, RUG Delver, UW(x) Miracles, and Shardless BUG. For a little I was leaning towards Jund or RUG since I have a good amount of the pieces for them from playing them in modern, but it seems like they are soft to some of the decks in my meta so now I'm leaning towards Esper Stoneblade or UW(x) Miracles. Could someone please help me out? Also, should note that money is not a big issue since I'm willing to save up money and/or trade for whatever deck I intend to build.
A format that does not change isn't fun....
Wizards realized that and that's why they make this bans and that's also why they print crazy powerful cards in standard that have the power to change modern also.
aka Snapcaster, GoST, Delver, Thundermaw, Deathrite Shaman, Lingering Souls, Huntmaster of the Fells
No change is not fun? Neither is a format that has to have the best deck neutered when they have been deemed too dominant. I feel like they should've at least waited till PTQ season was over. It also looks like people were finding ways to beat Jund with so many people playing Pod, Tron, or the new kid on the block, American Midrange. It seems like Jund's dominance was already starting to get curbed naturally by the meta. It just took a little longer than Wizards would have liked probably.
I really hope that Wizards spamming of the banhammer in Modern is just the growing pains of a young format like people have said, comparing it to legacy's early days. And if that's the case, then hopefully we can look forward to an eternal format that, like Legacy, where the best deck changes from week-to-week and the meta is able change more often. If that future is what Wizards has in store for us then we should see a gradual release of cards from the Modern banlist.
However, if this how they intend to have their successor to Old Extended be, I'd rather have a rotating format than one that has to be changed by a ban list since at least in the former case the change doesn't feel so unnatural. So is modern an unstable format? IMO, yes, for the time being at least. Because, for me, spamming of the banhammer in some ways indicates a lack of confidence in the players of the format to figure out how to beat Deck X when X has become pretty dominant. Just my two cents.
There was a thread that had of list of people with their primary deck of choice and cockatrice/MWS account names. Can't find it currently though. Could someone post a link?
Anyhow, here's my Cockatrice account name: Dragonslayer90. I primarily play Jund now, though I used to be into RUG Delver before it died out. I'd love to have someone to test modern with so if you have cockatrice and like to test sometime just pm on mtgs and I'll let you know when I'm available.
I'm going to have more time to do serious testing for GP Atlantic City since the holidays are over for the most part after tomorrow. With that said, I'm wondering what decks you guys would consider for a Gauntlet of Standard. It seems kind of hard to cover all bases since the format is still pretty wide open.
Here's what I can come up with off the top of my head after going to a Grand Prix Trial, not dividing them into any particular tiers: UWr Flash, UWr Midrange, Rakdos Aggro (Both Br and Rb Variants), GB Midrange, Naya Midrange, Naya Humans, Jund Midrange, Esper Superfriends, 4C Midrange, Human Reanimator, Bant Control. There is probably other decks I should consider since the above is mostly from what I saw played or played against in the GPT I went to recently.
The weekend after these had great showings, we put 5 decks into day 2, none into top 8. Clearly, better players are migrating towards opposite ends of the spectrum.
The deck to keep an eye on is Willy Edels. Same player who played Jund to top 1 in modern a few weeks ago, he got top 30 or so this week, had some mana screw, but played a very aggressive lineup that boarded into the classic midrange build. I see that as the way to go, so we can steal games, and then play as we need to g2 & 3.
Bollkis, what event are you referring to when you talk about Willy Edel? Could you post a link to the list or the list itself? I'm really intrigued by the game plan you described. Don't want to give up on Jund yet but I need to see a possible new direction we can take it.
PM me if you want to test. I'm going to be on sporadically for a little while because I have finals in two weeks. I'll be on more regularly when the semester ends in mid-december. I'm focusing on standard right now, but I'm open to playing modern as well.
I haven't played too many games against the current versions of UWR Midrange, but it would seem to me like it's going to be slower than regular aggro so you should be able to get something like Huntmaster on the table fast enough to defend against GoST. I'm sure there are more things to worry about than just that card though.
Yes, but if they counter your turn 2 farseek while you're on the draw you're not getting that Huntmaster out until turn 4 if you even get to resolve it. That's why I like the idea of having an answer after they tap out for GoST like Rolling Temblor or Liliana of the Veil. I'm considering maining one or the other or both in anticipation of how my meta might be evolving. GoST is kind of a must answer when he comes out otherwise you have to fight through a wall of counters and removal after they untap with him.
2. The popularity of Jund is not a big enough issue to warrant any bannings from what I gather. Jund has been putting up good results in recent months, but that usually happens when the meta becomes filled with fair decks that have better game against combo (ex. Esper Stoneblade, RUG Delver, etc.). Then when decks like Jund are on top, combo makes a come back.
I'd agree with you that Modern is more financially stable than Legacy in the long run (mostly because of the reserved list). However, I don't see Modern becoming the eternal format of choice in at least another five years at least. The real issue Wizards is having right now is finding a balance with Modern's card pool that neither seems too broken nor too underpowered. IMO, they've gone a bit too far towards the underpowered end of the spectrum, which is why I've been working on getting into Legacy. Even with built-in financial sustainability, Modern needs to find a more stable, positive identity than being the 'banhammer happy' format like Weapon X said.
I can corroborate that since I'm one of the new guys who came yesterday. Glad to have met you WorstBandNameEver.
My magic club meta, in terms of legacy, consists of Maverick, Zombardment, Belcher, Dredge, Reanimator, Burn, and a BW Tokens brew. Decks I've been considering: Jund, Esper Stoneblade, RUG Delver, UW(x) Miracles, and Shardless BUG. For a little I was leaning towards Jund or RUG since I have a good amount of the pieces for them from playing them in modern, but it seems like they are soft to some of the decks in my meta so now I'm leaning towards Esper Stoneblade or UW(x) Miracles. Could someone please help me out? Also, should note that money is not a big issue since I'm willing to save up money and/or trade for whatever deck I intend to build.
No change is not fun? Neither is a format that has to have the best deck neutered when they have been deemed too dominant. I feel like they should've at least waited till PTQ season was over. It also looks like people were finding ways to beat Jund with so many people playing Pod, Tron, or the new kid on the block, American Midrange. It seems like Jund's dominance was already starting to get curbed naturally by the meta. It just took a little longer than Wizards would have liked probably.
I really hope that Wizards spamming of the banhammer in Modern is just the growing pains of a young format like people have said, comparing it to legacy's early days. And if that's the case, then hopefully we can look forward to an eternal format that, like Legacy, where the best deck changes from week-to-week and the meta is able change more often. If that future is what Wizards has in store for us then we should see a gradual release of cards from the Modern banlist.
However, if this how they intend to have their successor to Old Extended be, I'd rather have a rotating format than one that has to be changed by a ban list since at least in the former case the change doesn't feel so unnatural. So is modern an unstable format? IMO, yes, for the time being at least. Because, for me, spamming of the banhammer in some ways indicates a lack of confidence in the players of the format to figure out how to beat Deck X when X has become pretty dominant. Just my two cents.
Anyhow, here's my Cockatrice account name: Dragonslayer90. I primarily play Jund now, though I used to be into RUG Delver before it died out. I'd love to have someone to test modern with so if you have cockatrice and like to test sometime just pm on mtgs and I'll let you know when I'm available.
Here's what I can come up with off the top of my head after going to a Grand Prix Trial, not dividing them into any particular tiers: UWr Flash, UWr Midrange, Rakdos Aggro (Both Br and Rb Variants), GB Midrange, Naya Midrange, Naya Humans, Jund Midrange, Esper Superfriends, 4C Midrange, Human Reanimator, Bant Control. There is probably other decks I should consider since the above is mostly from what I saw played or played against in the GPT I went to recently.
Bollkis, what event are you referring to when you talk about Willy Edel? Could you post a link to the list or the list itself? I'm really intrigued by the game plan you described. Don't want to give up on Jund yet but I need to see a possible new direction we can take it.
Platform: Cockatrice
PM me if you want to test. I'm going to be on sporadically for a little while because I have finals in two weeks. I'll be on more regularly when the semester ends in mid-december. I'm focusing on standard right now, but I'm open to playing modern as well.
Yes, but if they counter your turn 2 farseek while you're on the draw you're not getting that Huntmaster out until turn 4 if you even get to resolve it. That's why I like the idea of having an answer after they tap out for GoST like Rolling Temblor or Liliana of the Veil. I'm considering maining one or the other or both in anticipation of how my meta might be evolving. GoST is kind of a must answer when he comes out otherwise you have to fight through a wall of counters and removal after they untap with him.