MTG Salvation

After playing the deck quite a bit for the first time in months I agree that we need some kind of removal/disruption. I dont think it should be at the level of mid-range decks though. Im thinking back to about two years ago when i used to play three mainboard decays and a flex removal (lightning axe/murderous cut) just enough to let us push through our deck and just enough to temporarily disrupt combos allowing us to win. I have found so many mat ch es were just straight loss to easily disrupted combo's or a single card like spreading seas.

Solemnity-because whatever the Melira deck is named now needed another combo piece. Edit: What I really meant to post about- Could this push up thing in the ice or help the dark depths. Legacy deck?

Quote from ccc1522 »

The reason you play magic is to play your favorite deck. I domt play magic to play some lame brew. I like playing with my favorite cards and favorite decsk. No One plays with ONLY cheap brews. No kne. Why? Bc cheap brews are not anyones favorite deck. Its that simple.

That's incredibly narrow minded. I know a lot of people who would rather play fringe decks rather than Tier1 because it brings new styles of play to the format. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean everyone won't.

Quote from ccc1522 »

Secondly, no that is simply not true. Competitive indoor soccer is very cheap, league of legends is cheap, RC plane competitions while costing 100-200$ and thats max price is cheaper, i mean dude i can get a car for the price of a vintage deck. I can get a turbo charger kit for my car for half the price of a legacy deck.

Competitive indoor soccer? So you are competing at the top level of soccer using an old t-shirt and some thrift store cleats? No, this would be the equivalent of casual kitchen table or local game store. Neither of these require you to spend thousands of dollars on a deck. People who play league competitively spend thousands of dollars on headphones, computers, and various other accessories.

Quote from ccc1522 »

sure you dont have to play with that 12,000$ deck. But what if thats my favorite deck? I cant buy it bc of how expensive it is.

This is like saying "You can drive to work without a Porsche, but what if that's my favorite car? I can't buy it because of how expensive it is." There are plenty of cars that are enjoyable to drive that aren't sports cars. Building your own deck is like adding things to the car you have to make you enjoy it more.

Quote from ccc1522 »

No one plays only home brews ppl play the game to play the cards they like and the deck they like. What you say is never the case and simply just not prudent. The point is yes sure theres cheap ways to play but to enjoy it to its fullest meaning playing a deck you like it costs alot.

There are plenty of people that play home brews and for home brews I mean casual kitchen table play. You can find perfectly competitive inexpensive decks here ON THIS FORUM. Developing competitive has tons of inexpensive decks that play great. I have tried a half dozen various decks off of it that cost me about ~100-~200 in trade.

Quote from ccc1522 »

If i cant play with the cards and deck i like than i just wont play. I'm not spending 300$ for a home brew that is straining to be competitive, filled with cards that I don't really like. And ill point out that's $300 for mediocrity. So yes the game is very expensive.

The deck I play I payed >$300 for and I enjoy it more than any tier 1 decks I've tried.

The game in itself is really what you make of it. If you feel that you can only enjoy something by spending a lot of money then you're going to struggle enjoying anything in your life, magic or otherwise. The best advice I can give you is to buy the staple cards for the deck over time. Whenever the cards get reprinted pick them up or whenever you have extra money grab a couple of pieces. You won't have your deck overnight but it is fun to build over time and your patience will save you a lot of money. I built my first deck in late high school and bought the core cards that were absolutely necessary to play the deck, then slowly worked on the sideboard and lands as reprints became available. No, in the first month or two you probably won't be winning a majority of your games but you it allows you to get used to playing the deck and by the time you have all the little parts pulled together you will be proficient and knowledgeable about what you are playing.

Quote from Varyag »

Magic is not inexpensive compared to most other hobbies. People love deluding themselves in this regard.

If we just look at gaming you can buy a room full of board games for a single modern Magic deck, to say nothing of Legacy or god Forbid vintage. Likewise you could probably buy an entire set of RPG books.

In terms of video gaming the price of one good Modern deck can set you up with a PC or just about that will be good for several years of gaming as well as being an indispensable tool. The actual cost of games has become a joke in terms of hours vs $ if you're willing to be patient and target the Steam sales.
With consoles you will start off cheaper with the machine but the added cost of games will eventually turn out to be less profitable than a PC.

As for TCG's, hearthstone, regardless of what one thinks of it or not is still much much cheaper than magic. It took me the better part of several days to get most of one deck and probably would take me a month of free grinding to craft the rest. 0$ invested. Impossible in MTG.

So anyone who says Magic isn't hideously expensive compared to other similar interests of its typical target audience is either blind or mad. Please, before you attempt to contradict me, bear in mind I have engaged or am engaged in all of these hobbies along with MTG, so I'm not talking out of my ass. I have a bunch of board games, a middle of the line gaming PC and a shelf full of RPG books, and I'm very well aware how much I paid for them.

Magic is not golf, horse-riding, big game hunting or whatever other expensive hobby comes to mind. Different audience, different social circles and different level of associated prestige.
Its a good game, but its not in the same category, nor does it belong there (in fact it is the inverse, often embarassing to mention among those not acquainted with the game) and it is severely overpriced for what it is.

Magic is extremely inexpensive compared to other hobbies, this not a delusion, it is a fact. People who say otherwise are creating excuses as to why they can't play the game. To play competitive magic it is relatively expensive, but please name a competitive environment that is less expensive and even in a competitive environment the game is not expensive. Board games are nowhere near as utilizable as magic cards so do not even bring that ridiculous argument up. You can brew for hours with a couple of different cards that are interchangeable within your deck, board games are fun for one maybe two hours at a time.

Magic is perfectly enjoyable outside of the competitive environment

Quote from Varyag »

So anyone who says Magic isn't hideously expensive compared to other similar interests of its typical target audience is either blind or mad. Please, before you attempt to contradict me, bear in mind I have engaged or am engaged in all of these hobbies along with MTG, so I'm not talking out of my ass. I have a bunch of board games, a middle of the line gaming PC and a shelf full of RPG books, and I'm very well aware how much I paid for them.

but despite your broad range of experiences you must have never tried this style of magic? Duel decks, old starter decks, pauper, pauper cube, and basically any format in a casual brew setting. These styles of play are dirt cheap and easily as fun if not more fun that competitive. I personally enjoy casual formats more because they allow for brewing with janky combos.

Next time before you accuse people of being Delusional or mad maybe you should realize that just because you haven't tried to have fun without spending a lot of money that it's not possible

The latest deck that was presented to us by none other the saffron Olive is going to cause some spikes. If you want parts get them now, mtgo already had almost all the key components see spikes.

Quote from dunpeal2064 »

I was wondering why the foil multiplier on some cards is so small.

Example: Noble Hierarch is around $60 non-foil for either printing, but the original Conflux foils are around $68. Foil MM2 bobs are basically the same price as non-foils, but I assume that one is due to the general dislike of MM2 foiling.

With Noble though, does this mean the non-foil price is too high, the foil price is too low, that the set has a poor foiling process (Afaik Conflux foiling is fine) or that another printing has so much preference (In this case the Judge Promo) that is completely tanks the price of other foils?

Mostly curious as someone new to following price trends and trying to buy things at the right time.

Conflux is kind of an outlier, in the alara block they did all foil packs that were sold at a higher price which resulted in foils from the block being worth significantly less.

Quote from damagecase »

The foil price is kinda troubling. Foils have, at least for me, represented the health of the game. The most rare iteration of a card. As long as they stay at a premium, the game is fine. But if they lose too much value, it means that the most valuable part of the card market is failing. I mean they are still quite a ways from being anything less than premium and now we have to factor in the extra rare iterations into the equation. Certainly will be something to watch. Hopefully it's just a momentary dip.

I am almost positive this is momentary. The format certainly isn't what it was but almost everyone is waiting until after packs start getting cracked. For what it's worth I noticed across multiple trading platforms and at my LGS modern trading was pretty dead until after MM was spoiled, which resulted in a surge of trades. People were just waiting, not primarily a lack of interest.

Ugin's nexus, fits into anything and does exactly what you want it to.

I like a lot of the cards you have listed but I really would like to see Linvala, keeper of silence instead of Archangel of thune. Linvala has been stuck at 40 forever and I think a mythic reprint would bring her down to 15.

Quote from Joban8 »

Quote from Colt47 »

Quote from Ryperior74 »

I just hope the reprints are good starting Monday.

What makes me sad is that the box pre-order price likely wont survive once the spoilers start. I think 150-180 is a better price point for modern masters than an MSRP 240. The fact is that times are changing and the way most TCGs are being printed now are player oriented rather than collector oriented. Given the changes in print run size we are heading towards that age in magic.

Still pulling baseless statements out your ass, I see.

This feels really uncalled for and provides nothing to the conversation. You could have said that in an educated way that actually disputes his claim or to argue against him. I scrolled back and I have no idea where this hostility comes from.


On a different note what are the odds that wizards does the second print run jam with mm2017? I have heard a lot of speculation on a large print run but also heard people say their LGS' are being limited on orders.

This is plain stupid. Here i was, warming up to the set, loving some of the new legends, the fact that everything seemed fair, and now they dump THIS ?
I don't find it even funny. I facepalmed as soon as I read the card. They can't help it ! They HAVE to print a broken card every set now, and at Mythic of course.
This is baaaaad on so many levels.

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Quote from Xcric »

sure lets just put a staple for every single commander deck ever at mythic into this set

Acquiring this is going to be painful


but necessary

right exactly. every single deck will want this and benefit from it

this card is bull*****.

there isn't a commander deck in existence that won't benefit from this, or doesn't want this. it accelerates all of them to absurd levels. all while people complain about fast mana and the cost of necessary cards.

and they put it at mythic making it difficult to obtain

this is what happens when they don't actually listen to anyone who actually plays the format in favor of unmitigated greed.

thanks izzetmage! actually i haven't also played the bridgevine deck, i'm not yet sold to deck yet and with it's current price wow! i'll just do the wait and see approach till the deck proves its self. but so far to be honest i dont like what i'm seeing on youtube and twitch bridgevine plays except for the round9 protour featured match from the japanesse team

I have not actually played Bridgevine yet, so take my answers with a pinch of salt:
My build:
- Goes tall with Angler
- Mills harder with Stinkweed Imp
- Maindeck removal
- Can use Explosives because there are no Bridges to exile
- Making bears with Cryptbreaker beats making Battlegrowths with Hangarback Walker when your graveyard is locked

Bridgevine:
- Goes wide with Bridge
- More explosive draws; it's casting 0-drops instead of 1-drops, and has Bushwhacker
- More combat tricks with Viscera Seer or Greater Gargadon
- Can hardcast Vengevine with 2 green sources

Mana-wise I definitely prefer my list. Swamp + RB land covers most of your possible openers; if you have 2 red and 1 black 1-drops, just play red on T1 (as I mentioned earlier, you should lead on Looting most of the time anyway) and red+black on T2. Bridgevine has this awkward problem where you have more black 1-drops than red, so you should lean towards 1 basic Swamp, but basic Swamp won't let you cast kicked Bushwhacker. Adding green shocks increases your mana woes. I almost can't believe some of the PT lists played Grim Flayer and Grisly Salvage, given how much of a pain I found Lotleth Troll to cast.

Personally, I think the PT decklists were unrefined and the deck still has a lot of possible development. You should pay more attention to the 5-0 or Challenge decklists from MTGO over the coming months instead of the PT lists just because pros played them.

thanks for sharing your list izzetmage! if i may ask, since bridgevine is popular now, what do you prefer between the 2-builds? dredgevine or bridgevine? pros and cons? thanks!

My current Bridge-less Vengevine list:
The SB is the same as Bridgevine, except I have Explosives since I'm running Brutalities main. The main deck is closer to Hollow One, with Brutalities, removal spells and Gurmag Angler.

I'm a bit more accepting of not having green in this build, because Explosives on 2 deals with RIP. I want Explosives against Affinity and Bogles anyway, and against UW there is also Thoughtseize. Also, I have the plan C of making Zombies with Cryptbreaker if my graveyard is locked by RIP/Leyline.

Update on my MTGO bundle, which includes Gx Tron, UWx Control, Ad Nauseam, Affinity, and a bunch of random staples. It sold for over $1k in 09/2017. As of today it has dropped 18%. Note that it has NEVER exceeded that initial sale value since 09/2017 and has almost always been at 90% or less of its sale value.

Quote from Joban8 »

Unstable was released literally two days ago...the prices will undoubtedly drop. Foil prices may vary depending on how common they are, but the non-foils won't get more expensive than they are during release weekend.

In regards to getting a steamflogger instead of a land, I haven't heard that claim, so not sure about that one. I opened three boosters for *****s n gigs and every pack had the same contents after your commons, uncommons, rare: Full art land, two contraptions, foil token (assuming this slot could also be a foil land).

The Steamflogger Boss is on the land sheet. People who open a Steamflogger Boss are opening it in the land slot and not opening a land. What I don't know is the probability of a land being 'replaced' with a Steamflogger Boss. But it is definitely, confirmed, nonzero.

Quote from Joban8 »

Quote from ErhnamDjinn »

what the heck happened to shattering spree card needs a reprint.

True that. It has been climbing since Eldrazi Winter, but it spiked once Baral storm decks started gaining traction.

Holy crap! TCG Mid is $11! Now I don't feel so badly about buying 2 extras from my LGS, but then finding that I already had 5 at home. (I obviously wasn't going to find them until I bought more.)

Do people have bots buying on these services? I wonder if buyers had bots set to "Buy any Foo that hits the market at $Bar or less" and the reprint announcement caused vendors to pre-emptively drop prices which caused bot autobuys.