MTG Salvation

Why are people going mental over the elder spell? Am I the only one who thinks that this will see approximately 0% constructed play?

It's extremely narrow and in almost best case scenario it reads "destroy target planeswalker". How often do you see yourself facing more than 1 walker? And even if all stars align and hell freezes and you get to cast it against 2-3 walkers AND it resolves, that means that a) all walkers have been activated at least 1 time b) 1-2 walkers have been activated several times over several turns, gaining their controller an accumulated advantage. Is resolving elder spell really gonna turn the tides at that point?

Quote from SyntheticDreamer »

Turns Electrickery into Plague Wind.

Yeah, that's just a wee bit pushed.

Not really pushed. I doubt anyone is going to play that combo in Modern and we've had Goblin Chainwhirler + Status // Statue in Standard for a while which is a stronger combo since both pieces are stronger in a vacuum and it still hasn't found its way into any deck.

No replies. So not sure if anyone is interested in the progress. But anyway here goes:





- I went from 26 to 25 lands and added a 4th Mine and Plant. Turns out that I was a little paranoid about not having enough colored sources and I often found myself flooding with non-tron lands.
- I also added a 3rd Map. Getting to tron was a bit inconsistent despite all the draw and library manipulation.
- 3 Gearhulks are added. I really missed a clock against combo decks that you could apply early-esque without tapping out. They've been great. Especially nice when you get them going with Academy Ruins. You can basically lock out any opponent that way. Also gives Forbidden Alchemy another purpose.
- 2 Spell Snares are added. Being on the draw and having no answers to Hangarback/Eidolon/Ravager/Plating/Mesmeric Orb is rough. I've felt really anxious whenever I lost the flip. More so than with any other deck.
2 Commit/Memory are added as well. God I love this card. It's been really clutch in so many situations because it's so flexible. It also gives Gearhulk an important and much needed hard counter target.

I also realize that a lot of people are probably a bit skeptical about Alchemy over Thirst. I actually originally started out with Thirst and a more classic tron approach (basically mono blue splashing black for removal and later I messed a bit around with Thopter/Sword) but decided to go a bit outside the box because I felt that Thirst didn't dig deep enough in a lot of situations.
I still really like it but there are times when I feel physically ill when it reveals 4 cards I all desperately need. I've also started to flash it back with Gearhulk a lot, so the second half is less relevant now. I'm gonna make the switch back at some point to try and feel the difference with Thirst and the current build.

I'm having a lot of fun and success with this deck (only in the practice room so far). This is basically a Modern version of the old Innistrad UB Control Standard deck with Think Twice and Forbidden Alchemy as its draw engine. The reason I wanted to try this is because I loved that deck back in the days and because Tron happens to work well with the flashback of Alchemy. I've found that non-green Tron decks often seem to struggle to find the right balance between having something to cast both before and after tron. If you get early tron with uW for instance, you often don't have any way to abuse it. Alchemy gives you plenty of mana sinks and works well with not only itself and Think Twice but also with Academy Ruins.

This is a budget version so far, since I'm a returning player and have sold my collection some time ago. It makes sense to try out Snappy and Search for Azcanta. Not sure about Jace. Double U is a little restricting and you don't want to tap out all that often. Supreme Will might be on the cute side. But I've been impressed with it so far. I guess these are the flex slots Snappy or Search could go into.

You could make a case for main decking Thoughtseize and a couple of Negates since that seems to be the norm. I haven't tried it yet, since I go by the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule. Of course stepping up and joining some tournaments would give me some better indications.

It's a little soft to Blood Moon since I don't run mana rocks. But it's not so color intensive and fetches + Map give you some leverage.

Let's brainstorm how to abuse BBE outside of traditional Jund.

I was thinking something a long these lines:



The good ol' Elf into Bust isn't exactly original but we got a lot of new support for that archetype in Rallier and Excavator. Lotus Cobra is also at its best with 11x 3-drops that all have synergies with it. Not sure if 'lark is the best thing we can ramp into besides Bust. And there's probably a way to tweak the deck to make CoCo a thing too. Path is also a nonbo. Should we run Bolt instead?

Thoughts? Other ideas?

Red Baron, I really like Wildfire in there. Seems like a good defensive card to ramp into. I wonder if the second copy of Elixir is redundant. Is it as an anti aggro tool? If so I feel that green has better things to offer in that spot. Personally I prefer Emmy over Elixir (you can draw almost your entire deck, pass the turn and discard down to hand size and then mill your opponent during his next upkeep). This way you don't get owned by a random counterspell and it also gives you another thing to ramp into (in case you don't draw the Atlas).

I made my list before the whole set was spoiled and I wonder if Reverse Engineer and Metallic Rebuke deserve some spots in the 75.

Quote from dkrocka »

Had some ideas about Spirit of the Labyrinth Geier Reach Sanitarium Mikokoro, Center of the Sea abuse. Seems kind of janky for the the topdeck soft-lock, though.

That's a really sweet combo. I messed around with it once too but only with moderate success. Modern really needs Mother of Runes for such things. Spellskite of course is always an option but not a card you'd want to run 4 of. Spirit isn't as good as in Legacy either since almost all cantrips are banned in Modern.

There's indeed a lot of sweet GW hatebears. I think the key is to understand the meta game and that might take a while. Question is whether you are trying to re-invent the wheel when GW Hatebears seem to be the direction you want to go (being a Maverick fan and all)?

Though I get that testing and brewing beats net-decking by a long shot. I'm not convinced that Archangel is a good win condition though. People used to mess around with Archangel and Spike Feeder in the old Birthing Pod days but ultimately cut it because Archangel was too weak by itself (they ran Finks and Ooze too). In order for it to generate value the turn you play it, you need to hold up a mana for Ooze or go through an attack phase with Finks or else it eats a removal spell and does nothing (it's relatively easy to kill too, though I guess it dodges Fatal Push and Decay). I'm sure that there are better trump cards: like Reveillark and Sun Titan if you wanna stick to the recursion theme.

Also Voice of Resurgence is the king of GW Hatebears if you can afford them.

Recurring Ghirapur might work. You probably want to go into a Martyr/Proc kinda direction with Ranger of Eos and Proclamation of Rebirth (check the thread for inspiration).

Otherwise Sun Titan is always a solid game plan, since he's card advantage and a beat stick all in one (both things the deck could need). You probably want some amount of mana dorks to support that plan though. Noble Hierarch and Lotus Cobra if you can afford them else Birds of Paradise is a fine budget alternative. Lotus Cobra + Knight of the Reliquary is usually pretty nuts. You probably also want something that trumps the creature matchups Gavony Township and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar come to mind. Both can be recurred with Titan and recurring Renegade Rallier with Titan is just insane value. If you aren't going for a combo finish I would cut the Summoner's Pacts as well. They are good if you go off and win the turn you cast them, but if you have to stick around for the next upkeep they are way too pricey. The Ghirapurs could probably get shaved down to 1 or 2 for a tool box approach with Ranger of Eos.

Viscera Seer is not a win more card. It's been a stable since Birthing Pod and now in CoCo decks. The thing about taxing effects plus other soft locks is that it doesn't matter anymore when the game enters the midgame. I've tried going down that direction with Thalia, Thorn and Lodestone Golem. What I think you are missing is the fact that most games in Modern are attrition based. Whoever comes out on the other side with more cards than the opponent usually wins and a lot of decks happen to be creature based (Jund, Abzan, CoCo, Hatebears, Bant Eldrazi, Tron Eldrazi, Elves, Merfolk etc.). You will fall behind against these decks when you draw your 1 mana 1/1'a and 2 mana 2/2's and they draw their 2 mana 5/6s and 3 mana 5/5s.

I also think you might be over evaluating Ghirpur and Thorn against spell based decks. They aren't locking your oppoent out of the game, they are simply delaying your opponent a turn or two. This does matter but only if you're able to kill your opponent in that time frame. This requires some meat which the deck seems to be lacking. This is why I pointed towards the GW Hatebear thread for some inspiration. Since the do run a lot of meat that punishes the opponent while he is struggling with mana.

You should check the GW Hatebear thread if you haven't already.

What strikes me about your list is that you have a lot of bad top decks. I'd say that the majority of your deck doesn't do a whole lot in the mid and late game and is very situational plus you don't have many ways to refuel (like Collected Company or Ranger of Eos). In short: you're gonna run out of cards really fast. This is why Thalia, Guardian of Thraben sees play and Thorn doesn't. Thorn is horrible from turn 3 on onward while Thalia at least has legs and trades well. Slow decks without strong synergies need to be build with cards that are strong in a vacuum and in any state of the game.

You also run 2 combos (Melira + Finks + Viscera Seer and Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder) just without the last combo piece. That doesn't seem right. Archangel is not a good card unless you plan to do broken things by going infinite and winning on the spot. You even have tutors to accompany that plan.

Quote from streetMage »

Walking Ballista is $16

Ouch! I'm definitely not making that mistake again.

By the way Walking Ballista + Basilisk Collar is a thing. Especially sweet since you can fetch both pieces with Trinket Mage.

I've been wondering about Shape Anew since the Investigate mechanic was spoiled. Before I tested Knight of the Reliquary into Darksteel Citadel with ok results. To me it seems like in order to make more use of Shape Anew into Blightsteel than Polymorph into Emmy (except the fact you can run creatures in the first) you wanna make the deck bolt proof.

My gut tells me that you probably want a Bant approach with Tireless Tracker and Thraben Inspector. Though I might be wrong. I'm also not sure that Blightsteel is the best target. It seems a bit slow. I feel that at 4 mana you want something that does something when you pass the turn (like Sundering Titan or Sphinx of the Steel Wind).

I actually quite like the Elemental Bond + Greenbelt draw engine. The Tangleroot combo might not be needed at that point. Maybe a bunch of free creatures (like Burning-Tree Emissary, Hidden Herbalists and Rishkar, Peema Renegade could also be quite sweet) and some mana dorks with a Craterhoof Behemoth finish? Probably a worse combo elves deck but who knows.

EDIT: Wait, Bond says 3 or greater. Dang it!

Ownjei: yeah I think it's a bit too janky. 4 card combos only tend to work when the deck can function without them and each piece happen to naturally synergies well with the rest of the deck.

Hmm I can see that the options are pretty limited. For some reason I didn't bother to look up the energy cards before I posted the thread . I guess it could work with Miner and Cub but those aren't the greatest in a vacuum.