has there been any talk about Release to the Wind? I think it could be a decent fun-of, since we can exile one of our guys in response to removal (and get a new trigger since they all have ETB triggers), exile a troublesome card for a turn, and it even has the corner case of exiling Bitterblossom before it kills us. I always seem to have a flex slot in my lists, so something like this is always intriguing.
The discord mentioned it wouldn't be half-bad as a fun of. I don't think anyone has done any extensive testing of it yet, though.
I've been focusing on Poisoner as my main testing card right now, Marauder potentially, depending on how things look with Poisoner. I think Marauder is just slower in our deck where poisoner does a lot of stuff very actively. I'm not 100% sold on trying Release just yet but if I'm unhappy with Poisoner after a while I can see myself testing a few maybe.
Dire Fleet Poisoner is too narrow of a card to play in a non-tribal pirates deck. Combat tricks are nice, but Scion of Oona and Mistbind Clique are plenty good and devastating in their own right. There are just better plans. Most of the time, attacking is the only action we do in our turn. There are cases and decks designed to be more tap out control style like i play, but when Faeries plays a creature it needs to significantly affect the battlefield and the game state. Snapcaster Mage consistently does that. I don't see Dire Fleet Poisoner in that slot. Please test and report though. Testing is how we all learn and can judge cards easier we haven't played with yet.
If you're referring to scion and mistbind as aggressive things to get in more damage then I agree completely, but their uses are drastically different than this card.
Don't evaluate it for its second ability because it's narrow, evaluate it as a 2/2 flash deathtouch creature for 2 mana.
I think this card has a powerful board presence and definitely changes the state of the game, as most people testing Gifted Aetherborn felt about having a new creature-tool. Plenty of people play it now, there's discussion on whether or not to main or side it, but this can hold a similar argument if you're using them for the deathtouch ability more than lifelink, which I seem to need more often.
I'm just evaluating new cards and this one sticks out to me the most so far. There's also the other blue human that makes things 0/1's, but I would be trying that in a more control based build.
Since a lot of our discussion has moved to the discord, for those not in it, I've been talking a lot about Dire Fleet Poisoner as another honorary faerie.
It makes a great surprise blocker and can also just be played as an aggressive creature to help you get in more damage, since most people don't like blocking deathtouch creatures.
Feel free to give your opinions
Hey man, Dire Fleet Poisoner only gives an attacking Pirate +1/+1, so Mutavault would be the only target for the buff, unless you have other poisoners, in which case, you may as well play UB Aggro/Tempo and not worry about Faeries. I don't think the extra damage argument is really that good, as Creeping Tar Pit is excellent for that, and many times Mistbind Clique or a swarm of tokens can smash in. I don't think the Poisoner adds enough to the deck to warrant what it would hinder, especially when it can be chumped by all sorts of the tokens that exist in common decks (Lingering Souls, Young Pyromancer, other Faerie tokens) and even lines up very poorly to Lightning Bolt, Kolaghan's Command (the can shoot it, or even get back a creature that traded with it earlier), and all the other burn in Grixis/Jeskai decks (as much as I hate the 'Dies to Removal' argument, all our other creatures have a strong ETB effect, so if we're getting them to spend a removal spell on Vendilion Clique or Snapcaster Mage, we've already gotten our value from them, whereas Poisoner doesn't have an ETB effect even close to on par with the other creatures).
I didn't mention that I was using it for the +1/+1 and deathtouch addition, but you brought up pretty much the point I brought up in the discord that the buff only works with itself and an attacking mutavault so that part of the ability is kinda meh, but isn't what I was mainly looking to do with the card.
The extra damage argument is that it can be played turn 2 and has to be dealt with before moving forward. If you're getting a 1 to 1 trade usually that's pretty decent, and it can clog the ground until your opponent finds removal for it (thus buying you extra turns for BB tokens, etc) and usually we can interact very easily with this removal thanks to spellstutter (path, push, bolt, etc). Creeping Tar Pit is excellent for getting in extra damage, as well as mutavault, but they are also a 4 mana commitment at sorcery speed and a 2 mana commitment at sorcery speed, while this can act as an instant speed blocker, in addition to a 2/2 attacker if needed. It can also just clog the board while your opponent looks for a way to remove it, which gives us the ability to devote the rest of our mana to things like attacking with mutavault/tar pit or holding up counters.
Poisoner does get chumped by Souls tokens, but so does the entire rest of our deck. Same can be said for Pyromancer tokens and for the niche mirror. This argument I'd treat a little similar to the "dies to removal" argument, there's no way to really get around that.
Note that all our other creatures also line up poorly to removal, regardless of how good they are. This doesn't have an insane ETB, but can still make people swinging in really consider whether or not they should as we can pop off a surprise blocker at any time, or we can just use it to clog the ground until they find the appropriate removal for it.
Since a lot of our discussion has moved to the discord, for those not in it, I've been talking a lot about Dire Fleet Poisoner as another honorary faerie.
It makes a great surprise blocker and can also just be played as an aggressive creature to help you get in more damage, since most people don't like blocking deathtouch creatures.
Feel free to give your opinions
Hi everyone. Was considering playing Faeries at the Competitive level, how is the deck's Humans / Robots matchups, and what's the agreed upon 75 if any?
From personal experience I would say the Humans match-up is manageable, but isn't favored until post-sideboard.
You can definitely find sweepers in time but they need to be specific and hope they don't out power you by the time you find them.
As for robots, I usually have a pretty good time with it. Not having easy artifact removal is rough, but between the amounts of removal you have, spellstutter sprite, and plenty of sideboard removal options, usually this is a not-too-bad matchup.
Did Liliana the Last Hope change your games pretty significantly? I've been contemplating a split like yours and I just wasn't sure if I wanted to go 3 Lotv/2 LtLH or if I wanted to test the new Jace as he's pretty enticing.
I haven't tried the new Jace to evaluate it, and even the experience with my decklist is pretty limited. Liliana, the Last Hope has the advantage of being not only good in those match-ups in which (almost) any planeswalker is good, but also against small creature decks. Against fair slow decks, not only her ultimate gives you the inevitability, but her -2 is very useful with so many creatures with good etb triggers. I see that against combo decks, at some point you can play Jace, get a body and then start cycling bad cards, while Liliana will be completely useless; but game 2, you should probably be boarding any of them out anyway.
I've been wanting to move LtLH to the sideboard for a while now since she hasn't been doing much in the main for me, and feels a little lackluster at times when I would rather have a threat (which Jace can provide). My thought process is, start with Jaces in main, and if the list I'm playing against definitely calls for LtLH, then board her in. Jace can easily get sideboarded out as well which is nice when you need options to side out cards.
I've been playing Yuuta's list the full summer. I went to a PPTQ this weekend with some new ideas I thought might be good, but without any testing to really know.
I wanted to take advantage of the new planeswalker rule to play both Lilianas in the main. Planeswalkers force you to play a more tap-out game, so discard becomes better than counterspells. I also wanted to try Perilous Research, which has many synergies with some cards in our deck, since we have tons of fodder to its sacrifice effect: chumpblockers, planeswalkers that are being attacked, Bitterblossom that's going to kill us, or creatures you want to get back in hand with Liliana, the Last Hope. However, all these scenarios are very situational and more often than not you'll be holding it with no use; that's what happens to cards you don't want to play more than one copy. I don't know if the right replacement would be a 25th land or an extra cantrip. The manabase is also wrong; if the idea of playing with enough basics to have the (remote) possibility of casting all the spells in your deck under a Blood Moon still makes sense to you, then you should cut a Creeping Tar Pit for an extra fetchland. If not, I'd cut 2 basic lands for dual sources.
On the other hand, I'm happy with the changes I made to the sideboard. Probably it's still not perfect, but it looks better than the one I had been playing before.
The PPTQ didn't go particularly well. I started 0-2, taking some bad mulligan decisions, but kept playing just for fun to win 4 rounds in a row.
Did Liliana the Last Hope change your games pretty significantly? I've been contemplating a split like yours and I just wasn't sure if I wanted to go 3 Lotv/2 LtLH or if I wanted to test the new Jace as he's pretty enticing.
I was reading the first page of the primer but the matchups seem really outdated as the current build is much different.
Anyone know when it'll be updated or anyone want to write a very small resumed paragraph about that?
Also, my meta currently is some burn and some control. Almost no combo and no eldrazi.
Would this deck be good against those? Or can it be tuned towards those decks?
The deck can definitely be catered towards winning against those decks.
I would suggest joining the Faeries Discord for sure because a lot of discussion goes on there. I also have a sideboard primer that gets worked on when I have the time here: Faeries Sideboard Guide
For someone trying to win against Burn and Control, I would probably suggest a list that runs more collective brutalities. Here's a list I stole from the Faeries Discord that runs some number of Brutalities main, as a starting point:
I still think that Initiate is a bad creature and if you want a similar one there is Seeker of the Way.
I don't really think that Claim // Fame is worth it over more copies of Kolaghan's Command if you're interested in bringing back your creatures as the extra utility is much better whereas Claim does literraly nothing if you have no targets in the GY.
Ajani presents an entirely different threat instead of Chandra. Ajani is extra lifegain and can lock the opponents down a little bit, even destroying all their lands, but Chandra is much more aggressive and in the opponent's face each turn to help play something, do extra damage, etc. You're right in that they are both 4 mana planeswalkers but Ajani fits much more of a slower control route while this deck again, goes more aggressively.
Mentor is also a lot slower than Pyromancer. If I have to wait until turn 3 to play a mentor I'm losing a turn where pyromancer could have been in play already and I could have a multitude of things to do with 3 mana on the following turn. I said in the post above yours that this deck is meant to play like a more fast and aggressive version of Mardu Mentor, because of the low mana costs and fast plays you can make.
Initiate is also significantly different from Seeker of the Way. I used to play a deck a while back that ran 4x seeker of the way and it requires (if you want to play with it aggressively) a lot of sorcery speed actions or instant speed combat tricks. This deck does have a decent amount of sorceries in it, but I want to be able to react more vs playing proactively.
Claim // Fame can sit and be awkward sometimes which is why the number of them in the deck is so few. Usually, an early game creature will get taken out and I use Claim // Fame as a 3 mana tempo swing back in my favor. It can pressure up to an extra 6 damage, and at worst gets me 3-4. I think that seems pretty good personally. Extra copies of K Command could fit in this slot as well but doesn't put them directly back into play which can be VERY relevant in the case of pyromancer, if I want to get my board larger by playing multiple things in one turn.
I like some of the sideboard tech they have which I might take from, but their deck is doing different things than what my deck is doing. Most of them are suggesting Initiate as their only creature and gaining advantage off of Planeswalkers and spells while I made intended deck to function like a semi-faster Mardu Mentor deck, taking huge advantage from Claim // Fame and quickly running wide with creature tokens thanks to Young Pyromancer.
This is just a silly deck idea I came up with after thinking about how I could possibly play a Claim // Fame deck.
Hoping everyone else finds it enjoyable, as I'm probably putting it together soon.
Essentially the deck runs a lot of ways to burn it's own life, but gets a huge amount of card advantage from it. The deck can stabilize quite a bit off of huge swings with Glory-Bound Initiate which "combos" well with Blessed Alliance.
There's no sideboard planned out yet as this is just a starting idea for the deck, but let me know if you have any suggestions as I would enjoy hearing some.
I always wonder why people choose to run EE over ratchet bomb in faeries. To me the reason's I'd want to bring in explosives or similar effects are to hit things that cost 3 like ensnaring bridge or blood moon or Liliana, Du Jour. The only real reason I can see where I'd really want EE is to set it to 1 and immediately pop it for a few death's shadows that snuck through. Can anybody elaborate on why they like one over the other? EE just seems so bad in a strictly 2 color deck.
From my personal opinion, I've tried both EE and Ratchet Bomb and I've found cases where obviously both shine. I personally play EE because I believe this deck has many ways to deal with cmc3+ threats out of the sideboard, and I like that it can come down late-game and function as a board-wipe, where ratchet bomb cannot and it requires set-up.
One deck I've found where ratchet bomb really shines is with decks that play Renegade Rallier, because they can constantly get it back after it's been used.
I think EE is good for us because it deals with low-cost threats and forces our opponents to play around it while it's in play, while ratchet bomb requires a large amount of set-up. There are arguments that could be made for both though.
I'm curious how many of us actually played serum visions?
I never liked it in faeries, and while I did see some people play it, I don't remember it being super widespread.
While opt is potentially better, I don't think its good enough to convert most of the non-serum crowd.
I've played serum visions for a while now and am definitely switching to opt. Instant speed is super relevant and leaving up interaction is always important to me.
For those on AV, I think it's going to be a difficult option with switching. Wait and see what takes over, this could be really strong but there's also a possibility that it could flop quickly and be underpowered.
Wooooow! That sideboard tech is AMAZING!
Congrats on all the hard work you came up with something very useful and comprehensive. I would have recommended to do it in an spreadsheet format to be able to sort the best cards for a given match-up. But that's already great.
Looking through it I just realized that, in my opinion, you give way too much credit to pithing needle in the ad nauseam match-up. Probably more than 90% of the ad nauseam field plays a copy of laboratory maniac in the main. So while pithing needle is not a total blank, it has a very limited use.
Cheers!
PS: Let me know if you are interested in a spreadsheet format for your sideboard guide, I could lend you a hand and prepare you a template.
Hey, thank you!
It's a compilation of a lot of knowledge I have gathered over several years playing the deck and I really wanted to share it with everyone here.
I added your comment about Lab Maniac, though.
As for the best cards for certain match-ups, I'm actually going to throw together a section for that at the very end of things. It's a little messy right now, but once I get through all of the cards that I plan on adding to this list, then I'm going to make sure to add a what to side out/in depending on the current meta according to mtgtop8/goldfish statistics.
I'm curious how many of us actually played serum visions?
I never liked it in faeries, and while I did see some people play it, I don't remember it being super widespread.
While opt is potentially better, I don't think its good enough to convert most of the non-serum crowd.
I've played serum visions for a while now and am definitely switching to opt. Instant speed is super relevant and leaving up interaction is always important to me.
For those on AV, I think it's going to be a difficult option with switching. Wait and see what takes over, this could be really strong but there's also a possibility that it could flop quickly and be underpowered.
The discord mentioned it wouldn't be half-bad as a fun of. I don't think anyone has done any extensive testing of it yet, though.
I've been focusing on Poisoner as my main testing card right now, Marauder potentially, depending on how things look with Poisoner. I think Marauder is just slower in our deck where poisoner does a lot of stuff very actively. I'm not 100% sold on trying Release just yet but if I'm unhappy with Poisoner after a while I can see myself testing a few maybe.
If you're referring to scion and mistbind as aggressive things to get in more damage then I agree completely, but their uses are drastically different than this card.
Don't evaluate it for its second ability because it's narrow, evaluate it as a 2/2 flash deathtouch creature for 2 mana.
I think this card has a powerful board presence and definitely changes the state of the game, as most people testing Gifted Aetherborn felt about having a new creature-tool. Plenty of people play it now, there's discussion on whether or not to main or side it, but this can hold a similar argument if you're using them for the deathtouch ability more than lifelink, which I seem to need more often.
I'm just evaluating new cards and this one sticks out to me the most so far. There's also the other blue human that makes things 0/1's, but I would be trying that in a more control based build.
One can pray, but we will see. I'm testing it as a few of for sure when it comes out.
I didn't mention that I was using it for the +1/+1 and deathtouch addition, but you brought up pretty much the point I brought up in the discord that the buff only works with itself and an attacking mutavault so that part of the ability is kinda meh, but isn't what I was mainly looking to do with the card.
The extra damage argument is that it can be played turn 2 and has to be dealt with before moving forward. If you're getting a 1 to 1 trade usually that's pretty decent, and it can clog the ground until your opponent finds removal for it (thus buying you extra turns for BB tokens, etc) and usually we can interact very easily with this removal thanks to spellstutter (path, push, bolt, etc). Creeping Tar Pit is excellent for getting in extra damage, as well as mutavault, but they are also a 4 mana commitment at sorcery speed and a 2 mana commitment at sorcery speed, while this can act as an instant speed blocker, in addition to a 2/2 attacker if needed. It can also just clog the board while your opponent looks for a way to remove it, which gives us the ability to devote the rest of our mana to things like attacking with mutavault/tar pit or holding up counters.
Poisoner does get chumped by Souls tokens, but so does the entire rest of our deck. Same can be said for Pyromancer tokens and for the niche mirror. This argument I'd treat a little similar to the "dies to removal" argument, there's no way to really get around that.
Note that all our other creatures also line up poorly to removal, regardless of how good they are. This doesn't have an insane ETB, but can still make people swinging in really consider whether or not they should as we can pop off a surprise blocker at any time, or we can just use it to clog the ground until they find the appropriate removal for it.
It makes a great surprise blocker and can also just be played as an aggressive creature to help you get in more damage, since most people don't like blocking deathtouch creatures.
Feel free to give your opinions
From personal experience I would say the Humans match-up is manageable, but isn't favored until post-sideboard.
You can definitely find sweepers in time but they need to be specific and hope they don't out power you by the time you find them.
As for robots, I usually have a pretty good time with it. Not having easy artifact removal is rough, but between the amounts of removal you have, spellstutter sprite, and plenty of sideboard removal options, usually this is a not-too-bad matchup.
I've been wanting to move LtLH to the sideboard for a while now since she hasn't been doing much in the main for me, and feels a little lackluster at times when I would rather have a threat (which Jace can provide). My thought process is, start with Jaces in main, and if the list I'm playing against definitely calls for LtLH, then board her in. Jace can easily get sideboarded out as well which is nice when you need options to side out cards.
Did Liliana the Last Hope change your games pretty significantly? I've been contemplating a split like yours and I just wasn't sure if I wanted to go 3 Lotv/2 LtLH or if I wanted to test the new Jace as he's pretty enticing.
The deck can definitely be catered towards winning against those decks.
I would suggest joining the Faeries Discord for sure because a lot of discussion goes on there. I also have a sideboard primer that gets worked on when I have the time here: Faeries Sideboard Guide
For someone trying to win against Burn and Control, I would probably suggest a list that runs more collective brutalities. Here's a list I stole from the Faeries Discord that runs some number of Brutalities main, as a starting point:
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Mistbind Clique
4x Opt
4x Bitterblossom
4x Fatal Push
4x Cryptic Command
3x Collective Brutality
2x Mana Leak
1x Go for the Throat
1x Murderous Cut
3x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Polluted Delta
4x Island
4x Mutavault
2x Watery Grave
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Swamp
1x Tectonic Edge
3x Ceremonious Rejection
3x Thoughtseize
2x Countersquall
1x Flashfreeze
1x Disdainful Stroke
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Disfigure
1x Flaying Tendrils
Ajani presents an entirely different threat instead of Chandra. Ajani is extra lifegain and can lock the opponents down a little bit, even destroying all their lands, but Chandra is much more aggressive and in the opponent's face each turn to help play something, do extra damage, etc. You're right in that they are both 4 mana planeswalkers but Ajani fits much more of a slower control route while this deck again, goes more aggressively.
Mentor is also a lot slower than Pyromancer. If I have to wait until turn 3 to play a mentor I'm losing a turn where pyromancer could have been in play already and I could have a multitude of things to do with 3 mana on the following turn. I said in the post above yours that this deck is meant to play like a more fast and aggressive version of Mardu Mentor, because of the low mana costs and fast plays you can make.
Initiate is also significantly different from Seeker of the Way. I used to play a deck a while back that ran 4x seeker of the way and it requires (if you want to play with it aggressively) a lot of sorcery speed actions or instant speed combat tricks. This deck does have a decent amount of sorceries in it, but I want to be able to react more vs playing proactively.
Claim // Fame can sit and be awkward sometimes which is why the number of them in the deck is so few. Usually, an early game creature will get taken out and I use Claim // Fame as a 3 mana tempo swing back in my favor. It can pressure up to an extra 6 damage, and at worst gets me 3-4. I think that seems pretty good personally. Extra copies of K Command could fit in this slot as well but doesn't put them directly back into play which can be VERY relevant in the case of pyromancer, if I want to get my board larger by playing multiple things in one turn.
I like some of the sideboard tech they have which I might take from, but their deck is doing different things than what my deck is doing. Most of them are suggesting Initiate as their only creature and gaining advantage off of Planeswalkers and spells while I made intended deck to function like a semi-faster Mardu Mentor deck, taking huge advantage from Claim // Fame and quickly running wide with creature tokens thanks to Young Pyromancer.
Hoping everyone else finds it enjoyable, as I'm probably putting it together soon.
Essentially the deck runs a lot of ways to burn it's own life, but gets a huge amount of card advantage from it. The deck can stabilize quite a bit off of huge swings with Glory-Bound Initiate which "combos" well with Blessed Alliance.
4 Glory-Bound Initiate
4 Dark Confidant
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Claim // Fame
2 Thoughtseize
3 Lingering Souls
2 Painful Truths
3 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
2 Lightning Helix
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
3 Shambling Vent
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Swamp
There's no sideboard planned out yet as this is just a starting idea for the deck, but let me know if you have any suggestions as I would enjoy hearing some.
From my personal opinion, I've tried both EE and Ratchet Bomb and I've found cases where obviously both shine. I personally play EE because I believe this deck has many ways to deal with cmc3+ threats out of the sideboard, and I like that it can come down late-game and function as a board-wipe, where ratchet bomb cannot and it requires set-up.
One deck I've found where ratchet bomb really shines is with decks that play Renegade Rallier, because they can constantly get it back after it's been used.
I think EE is good for us because it deals with low-cost threats and forces our opponents to play around it while it's in play, while ratchet bomb requires a large amount of set-up. There are arguments that could be made for both though.
Hey, thank you!
It's a compilation of a lot of knowledge I have gathered over several years playing the deck and I really wanted to share it with everyone here.
I added your comment about Lab Maniac, though.
As for the best cards for certain match-ups, I'm actually going to throw together a section for that at the very end of things. It's a little messy right now, but once I get through all of the cards that I plan on adding to this list, then I'm going to make sure to add a what to side out/in depending on the current meta according to mtgtop8/goldfish statistics.
I've played serum visions for a while now and am definitely switching to opt. Instant speed is super relevant and leaving up interaction is always important to me.
For those on AV, I think it's going to be a difficult option with switching. Wait and see what takes over, this could be really strong but there's also a possibility that it could flop quickly and be underpowered.