Is Copter the new big thing then? I would like to avoid spending all the money on them if it's not necessary, as I definitely would prefer keeping something similar to what I already have. I'd think the success of these lists is due to their sideboards being different from what I've seen recently.
Maybe that's the part we need to look at more where we are seeing leyline of the void and such. With dredge on the rise it's important that we side well for it and right now even I've got some stuff set aside for it, it still doesn't pull the match in my favor tremendously
To the people playing Swords: How satisfied are you with them? In what match ups do you especially like them? It's just that they seem really slow...
I personally like both swords. They can absolutely turn a game in your favor and each is relevant in the late game. You're not dropping it early usually, but when it does get dropped it's usually a "get rid of this now or I win" kind of card.
So, with the new set finally out and playable in modern, I decided to take into account some cards I had laying around and tried to build a deck that actually ended up taking me to a 3-1 record at FNM last night. This is not a combo deck by any means, but it rather just values out the opponent by playing similar to Jund in that you just play stuff that is "better" than your opponents stuff.
The idea is to basically slam a Fox or Clique on turn 2, and then make it into a near unbeatable creature depending on the opponent.
Card choices explained: CREATURES
Filigree Familiar OR Kitchen Finks - This slot is for pure value, these cards are going to net you a lot of life over the course of the game, in addition to replacing themselves easily in your favor (Kitchen Finks obviously can do this twice, vs. Filigree's replacement effect being drawing a card). I used Filigree in this first list because I didn't have Finks on hand, and it is significantly easier to cast. (Plus it's a cute fox, obviously)
Birds of Paradise - Not much need be said besides it being able to ramp us quickly. In the late game, it turns Havengul Lich into a nightmare because you can easily start casting your opponent's creatures from their yard.
Snapcaster Mage - This guy not only Eldritch Evolutions into a 4 drop, but is probably the best slot you've got here. He buys back removal and can put you ahead by helping you dig further if need be.
Vendilion Clique - Very strong 3 drop that can filter our hand in a pinch and keep us from dying to stupid top-decks. Also evos into 5 drops which is relevant
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet - This card takes away the game in the long term against Burn. I put it in mainly for that and being able to easily cast it at 4 mana, it feels very solid.
Thragtusk - Evo target #1, this card just nets you life and if it leaves obviously has a replacement effect. Pretty nice to slam on turn 3.
Whisperwood Elemental - Evo target #2, this card goes so wide if your opponent cannot handle it that it is a MUST answer when it enters play. (This card won me a lot of my games)
Gilt-Leaf Winnower - Evo target #3, I have a hard time killing certain things with my smaller amount of removal, and this thing can swing that in my favor. The non-elf clause is not relevant, and he is very strong on his own due to menace.
Havengul Lich - Evo target #4, the late game king. This dude recasts every creature from your graveyard and lets you do the same to your opponent. Broken? Yes. Out of bolt range? Yes. Going to win you the game? Probably.
Grapple with the Past - This card allows us to rebuy a creature that's already in the yard. Snapcaster tends to be a prime target but anything will do in the right situation.
Eldritch Evolution - The reason I made the deck. Doing this on turn 3 can be nuts and just outright wins you the game. You have to play it smart though, so you don't get it countered as it feels REALLY bad to get it countered.
Liliana, the Last Hope - Another way to rebuy creatures. This thing is also nuts against x/1 creatures which just makes her that much more appealing to fight against tiny creature decks.
Hopefully that explains some card choices and such, but I'm really looking forward to hearing other people's opinions on the deck. It might be messy, but I really enjoyed playing it last night and I would recommend people give it a try, as it's very enjoyable to play.
I used to play 1 Duress and 1 Dispel - they're similar effects against control. Having 2 Dispel against Suicide Zoo makes tapping low much safer. Generally speaking, against decks where you want Kalitas, he does his job by just sitting there rather than making zombies. Dispel allows him to come with protection sooner.
What do you think about Collective Brutality? It's sorcery speed but I guess it works as a Duress and a Disfigure, and allow us to make extra value from Bitterblossoms or seizes stuck in hand.
Right now i'm playing 3 IoK, 2 Seizes, 1 Brutality in MD and 1 more Brutality in the board.
I've actually been wanting to test this out as a 1-2 of in the main/side just to see how it performs. It doubles as discard and removal therefore making it quite relevant if I'd like to pitch a seize or BB, like you had mentioned.
W
(I can't wait for the new counter spell that should work wonders in this match up.)
Relying on counterspells against a deck that runs 4caverns won't help you winning that ma
You obviously misread, it said colorless Eldrazi, not Bant. The lists ive come across for them dont commonly use cavern. As for Bant, I think it could still potentially help us avoid stuff regardless. Not to mention its a great counter against Tron and Affinity if need be
Went 2-2 tonight with the deck posted in my signature, here are my match-ups:
Round 1 Soul Sisters
Game 1 - Bitterblossom surprisingly got me there as he couldn't interact quickly while I took the game away and kept swinging in for more than he was gaining.
Game 2 - Similar situation, sided into Sword of Light and Shadow and Sword of Feast and Famine which blew him out of the water quite quickly.
Round 2 Naya Burn
Game 1 - Opponent managed to get me down to 2 before I stabilized and locked him out of playing things until I had the kill using mistbind clique.
Game 2 - Quickly overrun
Game 3 - Opponent managed to get me down to 5, with no creatures in play. He was at one card in hand which I knew was a Wild Nacatl which I had removal for, but couldn't immediately kill me. I dropped [c}Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet[/c] since I wouldn't possibly die to a topdeck, and won from him.
Round 3 Colorless Eldrazi (Kind of Tron Eldrazi)
Game 1 - Quick loss, couldn't interact well
Game 2 - Kept hand with 2 Bitterblossom, 3 land, and a Sword of Feast and Famine. Won me the entire game off of that in addition to a 3rd BB.
Game 3 - Kept a relatively similar hand to above except had a spellstutter and vclique instead of sword and missing card, but just got killed quickly by not being able to interact very well.
(I can't wait for the new counter spell that should work wonders in this match up.)
Round 4 Mardu Control
Game 1 - Quickly got killed by Lingering Souls tokens.
Game 2 - Out tempo'd him with land creatures and bitterblossom + sword of LS
Game 3 - Kept a relatively bad hand in hindsight and didn't draw well for the remainder of the game.
Over-all, fairly good night going 2-2 but I feel like I enjoy this list a lot. I'd still like to try and work in Liliana, the Last Hope somewhere but it's difficult to find a spot. If anyone has questions, as usual, feel free to ask.
Sure! I overestimated how much free time I'd have to work on primer, so that's not progressing much.
As for the swords, I found myself boarding out mistbind in nearly every matchup - it's tough to set up a clean champion and I didn't like to trade my four mana threat for one/two mana answers against the fair decks. Sometimes a mana short on turn 4 is too late against the fast decks. I preferred to use discard to strip their threats rather than their removal and this made it harder for mistbind to earn it's keep.
Swords and mistbind both need a good window to be effective, so they can both end up being stuck in hand. The difference is how well they follow my game plan. Generally speaking, our creatures suck - they do powerful things when they come into play but that they're pretty weak. When it comes to actually killing your opponent, you've got tokens and random bodies that they dont want to use removal on (sprites/snapcasters) or manlands that you can use when it's safe to do so. Mistbind clique is an attractive target for removal and that's opposite to the rest of our threats. Swords make your random dorks become real threats and tax your opponent to either keep killing bodies that you don't need or be overwhelmed.
Hey, thanks for the insight on the swords!
I have a question about your last lists tho, have you abandoned all grave hate because you think that Dredge is just a really bad match and it's not worth to spend sb slots on them? I know that we have Kalitas, but I guess that's too slow against them?
I'm obviously not the person you were replying to, but I'll let you know of my personal experience with grave hate: Grafdigger's Cage is interesting. Obviously it's a non-bo with Snapcaster, but it will help you a lot with making sure you don't get destroyed by the creatures coming back from the GY. Surgical Extraction is really good too because instant speed steal all the bad cards away, which is very nice.
I don't use them often in my meta but when there are graveyard decks, it's pretty damn useful and incredibly important to have. If you find yourself running into it often, I'd say it warrants a few slots. Grafdigger's can be a "catch-all" as it stops company decks, but also helps you to go about saving your butt against graveyard decks like the creature heavy dredge decks.
Played this list tonight at a Wednesday night modern tournament, went 3-0 with it in our sadly only 3 rounds.
Only difference with this list is that I ran 2 Mistbind Clique instead of Liliana, which worked wonders for me.
Match-ups:
Round 1 - GR Ramp/Eldritch Evolution WIN (2/1)
Game 1 - I drew no removal or counters and just ended up getting killed quick due to little interaction.
Game 2 - I ended up valuing him out just using bitterblossom and such. He managed to get out a Thrun, the Last Troll but it didn't do much with BB in play making blocks for days.
Game 3 - After seeing Thrun i sided in a one of Languish from the side which ended up winning me the game in game 3 as he couldn't establish a board presence after that. I also chained my two mistbinds to time walk him twice, which was gross.
Round 2 - UG Infect WIN (2/1)
Game 1 - Similar to above game 1, just got combo'd quick and I didn't have much interaction.
Game 2 - Sided in extra removal which ended up putting me over the top. Started off with 2 discard spells and he wasn't able to recover easily. He also went all in on a creature only to have Slaughter Pact ruin his day, which was beautiful.
Game 3 - Kept the same side in, figured it would still work in my favor. He ended up getting land screwed and drew 4 become immense, which cost him the game quickly.
Round 3 - GR Valakut WIN (2/0)
Game 1 - Kept a decent value hand which included Bitterblossom and a few counters, ended up valuing him out using the tokens which he could never recover from.
Game 2 - Kept a 5 land 1 vendilion clique mulligan, and ended up drawing straight gas while he didn't have much to do on his end. Valued him out with Bitterblossom again in addition to tapping him out with Mistbind.
In conclusion, Mistbind was gross. I still wanna test swords in it's place, but it felt really good tonight against the matchups i played.
I'm going to be playing probably something similar to this on Friday for FNM but I need to establish a solid sideboard before going further.
If someone is curious of the sideboard I used, feel free to ask. I didn't use much of it tonight outside of an extra disfigure, languish, and a single Flaying Tendrils. Link to the deck with sideboard is in the signature, only difference was -2 negate +1 Tendrils +1 Needle
There's also a link to the most up to date list in my signature, I try and keep changes and such up to date so you can check that regularly as well.
I'm using Liliana instead of swords, but have swords on their way to test them out. So far, Liliana feels best as a sideboard card and can probably be best used there. Everything else feels like it's working really well though, and it feels very consistent. I like having two Kalitas as the lifelink is really relevant, which i'm sure Sword of Light and Shadow can make the lifegain a bit easier to achieve.
Any tweaking I can do for the current meta? Been playing mainly against Tron and it's boring to play against. Been thinking of going to other LGSs and seeing how I go. Am I missing anything important? Haven't updated the list in months.
If you're having a difficult time against Tron might i suggest running possibly Fulminator Mage? You can cast it quite easily as long as you run enough black producing lands. I already see you're packing a decent bit of hate against it, but I would also add that maybe changing up your removal suite in addition to changing the counts on thoughtseize/inquisition from 2/3 to 3/2, respectively. As for the removal suite, 4 GftT is going to screw you over quite badly in the first game against Affinity, or even in the tron match-up if they're on Wurmcoil Engine. I'd recommend in this situation to probably go for a more wide range with Slaughter Pact, Murderous Cut, or even Doom Blade if the meta is good for it.
As for your sideboard, depending on if you don't mind losing your creatures, Flaying Tendrils can be as good/better as drown in sorrow depending who you're up against (blowing out company is pretty sweet), especially since they can't get them back once the creatures die. This can be bad for you if you want to regrowth your own things, but I don't see anything in your deck doing that so that shouldn't be a big deal.
Other than that most of your stuff is straight-forward, and if you like what you're playing and you think it works, stick with it. I've seen a lot of people in this forum say there's no entirely correct list to be played, you need to tailor it and make it yours, as it can adapt if need be. Good luck!
I haven't been following MTG for months... but, this seems ok?
Simply curious, what do you think would this be best used for in the deck? If we're talking untapping to block and such it can make sense there, I guess, but I feel like we have a lot better of options at 2 mana.
Also, I'm getting back into Faeries as I tried to step away from it but couldn't keep myself from the deck as I enjoy it too much. Gonna play it tonight and hopefully do well at FNM with it as I've been test playing the last few weeks with it but not posting in the forums here.
Edit:
I feel like I was a bit rude in my comment about the card, but I'd like to point out if used properly this might be useful in a midrange build depending on how it's used. I feel like this deck doesn't want it as much as a newer combo deck might.
I have a bit of a messy version of this deck, but this is what I've been testing to some success, planning on playing this tomorrow at a smaller tournament in town:
Sideboard basically shifts to counters taking out some of the kill spells and such, most of the deck stays the same and might change in and out a few creatures.
Just a thing to note, if I had Goyf, I would be playing it in this deck. It seems extremely good and I almost feel bad I'm not using them.
Edit for Wednesday Night Magic:
I used this deck at one of my LGSs and here are my experiences/thoughts -
Round 1 (vs. Goblins) 2-1
Game 1 Got stomped pretty quick to a low life total, just had to swing back post-sideboard
Game 2 + 3 Sided into Feed the Clan and managed to nearly triple my life total in one swing, as he couldn't easily remove Grim Flayer with delirium active, so I abused my snapcasters and made sure I stayed out of reach.
Round 2 (vs. Jeskai Nahiri) 0-2
Game 1 The guy just stayed back and took advantage of what he could, ended up beating me down because I couldn't deal with the recurring paths. I went through nearly all of my deck in this game and had him down to approximately 5-6 before I lost, though.
Game 2 Similar to the first game. He was expecting Goyf thinking that I just hadn't played any in the first game and got super unlucky, so he sided well, while I didn't have much to really prevent him from doing his stuff. This is where I really wish I had more removal that wasn't just the two Abrupt Decay, as I ended up losing to a single Celestial Colonnade and wasn't able to remove it.
Round 3 (vs. Jeskai Control) 0-2
Game 1 Similar to the game 1 against Jeskai Nahiri, but this deck didn't play Nahiri. He ended up getting there with manlands and stabilizing around 4-5 life.
Game 2 Fairly similar in that I lost because I had abrupt decay a plenty but no kill spells for the manlands.
Round 4 (vs. Temur Battle Rage Combo) 2-1
Game 1 He managed to get a quick little combo together in turn 1 Swiftspear, turn 2 pump and gitaxian probes plus become immense which eventually just took the game over.
Game 2 I got out an early Courser of Kruphix which helped me stabilize by blocking and obviously gaining me life. This held me over until I ended up just over powering him with Flayer and such.
Game 3 Almost killed me super quick but I again stabilized off of a Courser and Grim Flayer as blockers. Sided into Feed the Clan here again and ended up abusing that to put myself at such a healthy life total that he ended up scooping.
Overall - The deck performed kind of how I wanted it to. Losing to manlands sucks and I'm definitely going to probably change around removal in order to avoid this situation in the future, as Dead Weight was only really relevant in the last two matches as I hardly ran into Snaps or other really good targets for it. I do feel that I need a few silver bullets with Traverse in the deck, and Glen Elendra was alright and tended to take removal, but wasn't the best. I think there needs to be more of a toolbox of creatures, and the ones that seem relevant, at least to me, are:
I think Emrakul, especially in this deck, can be cast in the late game to solidify a win. If there's only one, there gives a lot less of a chance of drawing into it, but with this deck you can easily hit all of our opportunities:
Enchant, Artifact, Creature, Instant, Sorcery, and Planeswalker (occasionally), Tribal (rarely), and Land.
Most of the time I tend to have Land, Artifact, Creature, Instant, Sorcery, which 8 for Emrakul is pretty good, but even 6 or 7 for Emrakul could be game ending.
Not sure if these should take priority over anything else, but they're options. I feel that Tarmogoyf missing from the deck is probably what would make the deck most consistent again but only testing will tell.
If I was to try this deck over without Goyfs, I'd probably run this:
With Goyfs, i'd probably drop 2 utility creatures and leave the shriekmaw, in addition to dropping 1 Grim Flayer to put myself at 3.
Another update after testing:
I played against Blue Moon, Titanshift, and a 4 color Aggro deck last night, all of which packed some pretty decent removal.
I had some pretty fair games in each, and noticed how much most of the cards get to interact with eachother. I had some issues though, especially in facing removal.
The 4 color (no red) aggro deck, granted, after he knew what the combo did, would always save removal for the point at which I was going to combo off, and it was VERY difficult to fight through. I think Siege Rhino is a definite switch here for the normal combo, and I'd probably bring in Rec Sage and Abrupt Decay as he's got Rest in Peace and a few other good cards he can bring in against me. Simply beating him down seems to be the best option here.
We played without sideboards, but I think that the Blue Moon matchup is VERY good post-sideboard with Choke, Rec Sage, and Abrupt Decay.
Titanshift is basically where we bring in Thoughtseize, which should be straightforward. I either would immediately win or he would immediately win as we didn't really interact with eachother.
My friends that I tested with recommended that I try and work in a few Spellskites to combat the removal. I can see maybe taking out Bob for this, or Tasigur. I think Bob is the right choice, but after just investing in them, it would feel bad to not be using them. This deck, also, loses incredibly bad to Jund. It's an absolute nightmare, as you would guess. I'm still having fun with it though, and can tell that there are unique ways to play the deck that I didn't think of previously. We will see how it plays out though, in the end. I think the deck (over-all) is a good investment as it's got a few staples in it and they can be easily ported over to a deck similar to just an Abzan beatdown deck, which seems decent to me. I wanted to invest in Bob and other cards anyways, so this is a good place for me to start.
I also want to point out that I moved some cards around and now have settled on an 18 land list and went up to 4 Traverse the Ulvenwald in order to enable delirium faster. The deck could easily be switched over to a Traverse/Evo for value deck, in which case I'd probably be leaning more towards the creatures that the chord list had.
A bit of an update, I changed up the first post and cleaned it up a bit and added in my new list, in addition to Torpf's Chord list in-case other people are wanting to try out their list as well.
As for a sideboard, I've been thinking and have come up with an idea like this:
It, in a way, turns us into a more controlling version of the deck and gives us options that are similar to Junk list's and Company list's sideboards.
Cards explained:
Rec Sage + Stony Silence - Pesky artifacts need to be dealt with. Helps out our affinity match-up a ton, allows us to kill pesky enchants/artifacts as well.
Rhino - Simply to side into an aggressive creature if you know that you need it more than the combo. This could be any number of creatures, but saving a rhino from dying with Saffi is gross and it was the first to come to mind.
Choke - To piss off blue players, simple enough. This on occasion can outright win you the game, and should be treated as such.
Golgari Charm - To piss off infect and affinity. More enchantment hate here too.
Abrupt Decay - Straightforward. Blow some stuff up. Great in match-ups we already have other cards for, and shines against other fair decks too.
Scooze - Again, I think a straightforward card. This is just here to value out your opponent's stuff dying, and can potentially just win out the games against company by eating their creature as it goes to the yard.
Thoughtseize - Straightforward discard. Good in match-ups where you don't want things in their hand, which is nearly every one.
Maybe that's the part we need to look at more where we are seeing leyline of the void and such. With dredge on the rise it's important that we side well for it and right now even I've got some stuff set aside for it, it still doesn't pull the match in my favor tremendously
I personally like both swords. They can absolutely turn a game in your favor and each is relevant in the late game. You're not dropping it early usually, but when it does get dropped it's usually a "get rid of this now or I win" kind of card.
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Thragtusk
1 Whisperwood Elemental
1 Gilt-Leaf Winnower
1 Havengul Lich
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Dismember
3 Grapple with the Past
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
1 Go for the Throat
1 Murderous Cut
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Botanical Sanctum
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
2 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Forest
1 Island
2 Swamp
The idea is to basically slam a Fox or Clique on turn 2, and then make it into a near unbeatable creature depending on the opponent.
Card choices explained:
CREATURES
Filigree Familiar OR Kitchen Finks - This slot is for pure value, these cards are going to net you a lot of life over the course of the game, in addition to replacing themselves easily in your favor (Kitchen Finks obviously can do this twice, vs. Filigree's replacement effect being drawing a card). I used Filigree in this first list because I didn't have Finks on hand, and it is significantly easier to cast. (Plus it's a cute fox, obviously)
Birds of Paradise - Not much need be said besides it being able to ramp us quickly. In the late game, it turns Havengul Lich into a nightmare because you can easily start casting your opponent's creatures from their yard.
Snapcaster Mage - This guy not only Eldritch Evolutions into a 4 drop, but is probably the best slot you've got here. He buys back removal and can put you ahead by helping you dig further if need be.
Vendilion Clique - Very strong 3 drop that can filter our hand in a pinch and keep us from dying to stupid top-decks. Also evos into 5 drops which is relevant
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet - This card takes away the game in the long term against Burn. I put it in mainly for that and being able to easily cast it at 4 mana, it feels very solid.
Thragtusk - Evo target #1, this card just nets you life and if it leaves obviously has a replacement effect. Pretty nice to slam on turn 3.
Whisperwood Elemental - Evo target #2, this card goes so wide if your opponent cannot handle it that it is a MUST answer when it enters play. (This card won me a lot of my games)
Gilt-Leaf Winnower - Evo target #3, I have a hard time killing certain things with my smaller amount of removal, and this thing can swing that in my favor. The non-elf clause is not relevant, and he is very strong on his own due to menace.
Havengul Lich - Evo target #4, the late game king. This dude recasts every creature from your graveyard and lets you do the same to your opponent. Broken? Yes. Out of bolt range? Yes. Going to win you the game? Probably.
Removal Suite
Counters
Discard
Value cards
Grapple with the Past - This card allows us to rebuy a creature that's already in the yard. Snapcaster tends to be a prime target but anything will do in the right situation.
Eldritch Evolution - The reason I made the deck. Doing this on turn 3 can be nuts and just outright wins you the game. You have to play it smart though, so you don't get it countered as it feels REALLY bad to get it countered.
Liliana, the Last Hope - Another way to rebuy creatures. This thing is also nuts against x/1 creatures which just makes her that much more appealing to fight against tiny creature decks.
Hopefully that explains some card choices and such, but I'm really looking forward to hearing other people's opinions on the deck. It might be messy, but I really enjoyed playing it last night and I would recommend people give it a try, as it's very enjoyable to play.
I've actually been wanting to test this out as a 1-2 of in the main/side just to see how it performs. It doubles as discard and removal therefore making it quite relevant if I'd like to pitch a seize or BB, like you had mentioned.
You obviously misread, it said colorless Eldrazi, not Bant. The lists ive come across for them dont commonly use cavern. As for Bant, I think it could still potentially help us avoid stuff regardless. Not to mention its a great counter against Tron and Affinity if need be
Round 1 Soul Sisters
Game 1 - Bitterblossom surprisingly got me there as he couldn't interact quickly while I took the game away and kept swinging in for more than he was gaining.
Game 2 - Similar situation, sided into Sword of Light and Shadow and Sword of Feast and Famine which blew him out of the water quite quickly.
Round 2 Naya Burn
Game 1 - Opponent managed to get me down to 2 before I stabilized and locked him out of playing things until I had the kill using mistbind clique.
Game 2 - Quickly overrun
Game 3 - Opponent managed to get me down to 5, with no creatures in play. He was at one card in hand which I knew was a Wild Nacatl which I had removal for, but couldn't immediately kill me. I dropped [c}Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet[/c] since I wouldn't possibly die to a topdeck, and won from him.
Round 3 Colorless Eldrazi (Kind of Tron Eldrazi)
Game 1 - Quick loss, couldn't interact well
Game 2 - Kept hand with 2 Bitterblossom, 3 land, and a Sword of Feast and Famine. Won me the entire game off of that in addition to a 3rd BB.
Game 3 - Kept a relatively similar hand to above except had a spellstutter and vclique instead of sword and missing card, but just got killed quickly by not being able to interact very well.
(I can't wait for the new counter spell that should work wonders in this match up.)
Round 4 Mardu Control
Game 1 - Quickly got killed by Lingering Souls tokens.
Game 2 - Out tempo'd him with land creatures and bitterblossom + sword of LS
Game 3 - Kept a relatively bad hand in hindsight and didn't draw well for the remainder of the game.
Over-all, fairly good night going 2-2 but I feel like I enjoy this list a lot. I'd still like to try and work in Liliana, the Last Hope somewhere but it's difficult to find a spot. If anyone has questions, as usual, feel free to ask.
I'm obviously not the person you were replying to, but I'll let you know of my personal experience with grave hate:
Grafdigger's Cage is interesting. Obviously it's a non-bo with Snapcaster, but it will help you a lot with making sure you don't get destroyed by the creatures coming back from the GY.
Surgical Extraction is really good too because instant speed steal all the bad cards away, which is very nice.
I don't use them often in my meta but when there are graveyard decks, it's pretty damn useful and incredibly important to have. If you find yourself running into it often, I'd say it warrants a few slots. Grafdigger's can be a "catch-all" as it stops company decks, but also helps you to go about saving your butt against graveyard decks like the creature heavy dredge decks.
Played this list tonight at a Wednesday night modern tournament, went 3-0 with it in our sadly only 3 rounds.
Only difference with this list is that I ran 2 Mistbind Clique instead of Liliana, which worked wonders for me.
Match-ups:
Round 1 - GR Ramp/Eldritch Evolution WIN (2/1)
Game 1 - I drew no removal or counters and just ended up getting killed quick due to little interaction.
Game 2 - I ended up valuing him out just using bitterblossom and such. He managed to get out a Thrun, the Last Troll but it didn't do much with BB in play making blocks for days.
Game 3 - After seeing Thrun i sided in a one of Languish from the side which ended up winning me the game in game 3 as he couldn't establish a board presence after that. I also chained my two mistbinds to time walk him twice, which was gross.
Round 2 - UG Infect WIN (2/1)
Game 1 - Similar to above game 1, just got combo'd quick and I didn't have much interaction.
Game 2 - Sided in extra removal which ended up putting me over the top. Started off with 2 discard spells and he wasn't able to recover easily. He also went all in on a creature only to have Slaughter Pact ruin his day, which was beautiful.
Game 3 - Kept the same side in, figured it would still work in my favor. He ended up getting land screwed and drew 4 become immense, which cost him the game quickly.
Round 3 - GR Valakut WIN (2/0)
Game 1 - Kept a decent value hand which included Bitterblossom and a few counters, ended up valuing him out using the tokens which he could never recover from.
Game 2 - Kept a 5 land 1 vendilion clique mulligan, and ended up drawing straight gas while he didn't have much to do on his end. Valued him out with Bitterblossom again in addition to tapping him out with Mistbind.
In conclusion, Mistbind was gross. I still wanna test swords in it's place, but it felt really good tonight against the matchups i played.
I'm going to be playing probably something similar to this on Friday for FNM but I need to establish a solid sideboard before going further.
If someone is curious of the sideboard I used, feel free to ask. I didn't use much of it tonight outside of an extra disfigure, languish, and a single Flaying Tendrils. Link to the deck with sideboard is in the signature, only difference was -2 negate +1 Tendrils +1 Needle
3 Darkslick Shores
4 Mutavault
2 Watery Grave
1 Drowned Catacomb
4 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
1 Pendelhaven
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
1 Murderous Cut
1 Disfigure
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
Right now I'm attempting to pimp out the deck as much as I can, this is what I've got so far:
Japanese:
Drowned Catacomb
Signed:
Pendelhaven
Vendilion Clique (MM2)
Thoughtseize (Theros)
2x Mana Leak (Chris Rush art)
Foil:
2x Bitterblossom (MM2)
4x Island & 1x Swamp from like Mirage?
4x Spellstutter Sprite (FNM)
2x Thoughtseize (Theros)
3x Cryptic Command (MM2)
2x Go For the Throat (FNM)
1x Murderous Cut
1x Dismember (FNM)
And i've got Judge Promo Sword of Feast and Famine and Sword of Light and Shadow coming in the mail, plus i'm borrowing two prerelease promo Kalitas.
There's also a link to the most up to date list in my signature, I try and keep changes and such up to date so you can check that regularly as well.
I'm using Liliana instead of swords, but have swords on their way to test them out. So far, Liliana feels best as a sideboard card and can probably be best used there. Everything else feels like it's working really well though, and it feels very consistent. I like having two Kalitas as the lifelink is really relevant, which i'm sure Sword of Light and Shadow can make the lifegain a bit easier to achieve.
If you're having a difficult time against Tron might i suggest running possibly Fulminator Mage? You can cast it quite easily as long as you run enough black producing lands. I already see you're packing a decent bit of hate against it, but I would also add that maybe changing up your removal suite in addition to changing the counts on thoughtseize/inquisition from 2/3 to 3/2, respectively. As for the removal suite, 4 GftT is going to screw you over quite badly in the first game against Affinity, or even in the tron match-up if they're on Wurmcoil Engine. I'd recommend in this situation to probably go for a more wide range with Slaughter Pact, Murderous Cut, or even Doom Blade if the meta is good for it.
As for your sideboard, depending on if you don't mind losing your creatures, Flaying Tendrils can be as good/better as drown in sorrow depending who you're up against (blowing out company is pretty sweet), especially since they can't get them back once the creatures die. This can be bad for you if you want to regrowth your own things, but I don't see anything in your deck doing that so that shouldn't be a big deal.
Other than that most of your stuff is straight-forward, and if you like what you're playing and you think it works, stick with it. I've seen a lot of people in this forum say there's no entirely correct list to be played, you need to tailor it and make it yours, as it can adapt if need be. Good luck!
It says non-land, reread it.
This would only be good for untapping for blocks in any form of faeries.
Simply curious, what do you think would this be best used for in the deck? If we're talking untapping to block and such it can make sense there, I guess, but I feel like we have a lot better of options at 2 mana.
Also, I'm getting back into Faeries as I tried to step away from it but couldn't keep myself from the deck as I enjoy it too much. Gonna play it tonight and hopefully do well at FNM with it as I've been test playing the last few weeks with it but not posting in the forums here.
Edit:
I feel like I was a bit rude in my comment about the card, but I'd like to point out if used properly this might be useful in a midrange build depending on how it's used. I feel like this deck doesn't want it as much as a newer combo deck might.
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Brain Maggot
3 Grim Flayer
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Mishra's Bauble
1 Dead Weight
2 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
2 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Go for the Throat
3 Grapple with the Past
1 Nameless Inversion
2 Whispers of Emrakul
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
Sideboard basically shifts to counters taking out some of the kill spells and such, most of the deck stays the same and might change in and out a few creatures.
Just a thing to note, if I had Goyf, I would be playing it in this deck. It seems extremely good and I almost feel bad I'm not using them.
Edit for Wednesday Night Magic:
I used this deck at one of my LGSs and here are my experiences/thoughts -
Round 1 (vs. Goblins) 2-1
Game 1 Got stomped pretty quick to a low life total, just had to swing back post-sideboard
Game 2 + 3 Sided into Feed the Clan and managed to nearly triple my life total in one swing, as he couldn't easily remove Grim Flayer with delirium active, so I abused my snapcasters and made sure I stayed out of reach.
Round 2 (vs. Jeskai Nahiri) 0-2
Game 1 The guy just stayed back and took advantage of what he could, ended up beating me down because I couldn't deal with the recurring paths. I went through nearly all of my deck in this game and had him down to approximately 5-6 before I lost, though.
Game 2 Similar to the first game. He was expecting Goyf thinking that I just hadn't played any in the first game and got super unlucky, so he sided well, while I didn't have much to really prevent him from doing his stuff. This is where I really wish I had more removal that wasn't just the two Abrupt Decay, as I ended up losing to a single Celestial Colonnade and wasn't able to remove it.
Round 3 (vs. Jeskai Control) 0-2
Game 1 Similar to the game 1 against Jeskai Nahiri, but this deck didn't play Nahiri. He ended up getting there with manlands and stabilizing around 4-5 life.
Game 2 Fairly similar in that I lost because I had abrupt decay a plenty but no kill spells for the manlands.
Round 4 (vs. Temur Battle Rage Combo) 2-1
Game 1 He managed to get a quick little combo together in turn 1 Swiftspear, turn 2 pump and gitaxian probes plus become immense which eventually just took the game over.
Game 2 I got out an early Courser of Kruphix which helped me stabilize by blocking and obviously gaining me life. This held me over until I ended up just over powering him with Flayer and such.
Game 3 Almost killed me super quick but I again stabilized off of a Courser and Grim Flayer as blockers. Sided into Feed the Clan here again and ended up abusing that to put myself at such a healthy life total that he ended up scooping.
Overall - The deck performed kind of how I wanted it to. Losing to manlands sucks and I'm definitely going to probably change around removal in order to avoid this situation in the future, as Dead Weight was only really relevant in the last two matches as I hardly ran into Snaps or other really good targets for it. I do feel that I need a few silver bullets with Traverse in the deck, and Glen Elendra was alright and tended to take removal, but wasn't the best. I think there needs to be more of a toolbox of creatures, and the ones that seem relevant, at least to me, are:
I think Emrakul, especially in this deck, can be cast in the late game to solidify a win. If there's only one, there gives a lot less of a chance of drawing into it, but with this deck you can easily hit all of our opportunities:
Enchant, Artifact, Creature, Instant, Sorcery, and Planeswalker (occasionally), Tribal (rarely), and Land.
Most of the time I tend to have Land, Artifact, Creature, Instant, Sorcery, which 8 for Emrakul is pretty good, but even 6 or 7 for Emrakul could be game ending.
Not sure if these should take priority over anything else, but they're options. I feel that Tarmogoyf missing from the deck is probably what would make the deck most consistent again but only testing will tell.
If I was to try this deck over without Goyfs, I'd probably run this:
With Goyfs, i'd probably drop 2 utility creatures and leave the shriekmaw, in addition to dropping 1 Grim Flayer to put myself at 3.
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
1 Brain Maggot
1 Hangarback Walker
4 Grim Flayer
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Shriekmaw
3 Mishra's Bauble
2 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
2 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Murderous Cut
1 Go for the Throat
3 Grapple with the Past
1 Nameless Inversion
2 Whispers of Emrakul
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
I played against Blue Moon, Titanshift, and a 4 color Aggro deck last night, all of which packed some pretty decent removal.
I had some pretty fair games in each, and noticed how much most of the cards get to interact with eachother. I had some issues though, especially in facing removal.
The 4 color (no red) aggro deck, granted, after he knew what the combo did, would always save removal for the point at which I was going to combo off, and it was VERY difficult to fight through. I think Siege Rhino is a definite switch here for the normal combo, and I'd probably bring in Rec Sage and Abrupt Decay as he's got Rest in Peace and a few other good cards he can bring in against me. Simply beating him down seems to be the best option here.
We played without sideboards, but I think that the Blue Moon matchup is VERY good post-sideboard with Choke, Rec Sage, and Abrupt Decay.
Titanshift is basically where we bring in Thoughtseize, which should be straightforward. I either would immediately win or he would immediately win as we didn't really interact with eachother.
My friends that I tested with recommended that I try and work in a few Spellskites to combat the removal. I can see maybe taking out Bob for this, or Tasigur. I think Bob is the right choice, but after just investing in them, it would feel bad to not be using them. This deck, also, loses incredibly bad to Jund. It's an absolute nightmare, as you would guess. I'm still having fun with it though, and can tell that there are unique ways to play the deck that I didn't think of previously. We will see how it plays out though, in the end. I think the deck (over-all) is a good investment as it's got a few staples in it and they can be easily ported over to a deck similar to just an Abzan beatdown deck, which seems decent to me. I wanted to invest in Bob and other cards anyways, so this is a good place for me to start.
I also want to point out that I moved some cards around and now have settled on an 18 land list and went up to 4 Traverse the Ulvenwald in order to enable delirium faster. The deck could easily be switched over to a Traverse/Evo for value deck, in which case I'd probably be leaning more towards the creatures that the chord list had.
As for a sideboard, I've been thinking and have come up with an idea like this:
3 Siege Rhino
2 Stony Silence
2 Choke
1 Golgari Charm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thoughtseize
It, in a way, turns us into a more controlling version of the deck and gives us options that are similar to Junk list's and Company list's sideboards.
Cards explained:
Rec Sage + Stony Silence - Pesky artifacts need to be dealt with. Helps out our affinity match-up a ton, allows us to kill pesky enchants/artifacts as well.
Rhino - Simply to side into an aggressive creature if you know that you need it more than the combo. This could be any number of creatures, but saving a rhino from dying with Saffi is gross and it was the first to come to mind.
Choke - To piss off blue players, simple enough. This on occasion can outright win you the game, and should be treated as such.
Golgari Charm - To piss off infect and affinity. More enchantment hate here too.
Abrupt Decay - Straightforward. Blow some stuff up. Great in match-ups we already have other cards for, and shines against other fair decks too.
Scooze - Again, I think a straightforward card. This is just here to value out your opponent's stuff dying, and can potentially just win out the games against company by eating their creature as it goes to the yard.
Thoughtseize - Straightforward discard. Good in match-ups where you don't want things in their hand, which is nearly every one.
If you have questions just let me know. Thanks!