Double-faced cards (plus obligatory checklist cards to work with them) in a set used as an introductory to new players? That has had one multicolored card in it's history due to complexity issues?
No. Just no.
This is coming as someone who started with prior gaming experience, but I never understood what made "expert-level" expansions "expert-level". I could understand DFCs pretty well when I went (as a noob) to my first innistrad draft. I at least knew enough to look up the mechanics of the set and understand them, and I don't really feel like it's reasonable to neglect older players and not reprint cards that would go well in standard for the sake of "complexity issues".
Kid I'm playing: Hey, what's with Mutavault. Is that a good card or something?
Me: Yeah, why.
Kid I'm playing: Somebody just traded me and they wanted this card really badly.
Me: Yeah, it's a $30 card.
Kid I'm playing: Oh. Was this a good trade then?
Me: Let me see.
He hands me 6 jank green rares. Jank on the order of Megantic Sliver.
Me: Oh, that's like less than $3. You got ripped off.
Kid looks glum. He's probably 10. Made me sick to my stomach. All he had to do was ask around or even just look in the glass case of cards to see that his card was worth A LOT. Yet he failed to do so. Sharking pre teens is not OK.
Precisely. The value of your cards isn't exactly something that's hard to find. I have no problem with "sharking" pre-teens. If they want to get their value, then they could actually know the value of their cards.
Playing with and against combo is lame. OP is a child.
Then go play casual. You people are the same ones who complain about netdecks, complain when someone sharks you out of a card you didn't know the value of, and complains when someone beats your bad homebrew. Go back to your kitchen table and let the people with any skill at all play.
I am just strolling the casual sub-forum and the topic of playing magic cards sometimes comes up... and there are even two threads that are about said combos.
Sure, it's a challenge and a fanboy-bragging right; but doesn't it get old after playing a few cards?
What's the appeal? Is it knowing you have found a way to play with cards? Is the humility one can put another through by being the butt of the joke by losing to magic cards? Is it the challenge of finding new ways to play magic cards? Is it just to say that not only did you think it up, but you pulled it off (Way to go Felix, any another other "nifty" tricks in that hat of yours?")?
Please stick to my question. The below "hidden" example is how a play group handles playing with magic cards. Just skip over it and proceed to where the muddled discussion ends and the topic is talked about...
Addendum to OG post:
Left out an important point (so the humble-man who feels better knocking me down a peg): This is in regards to a casual play group that enjoys multi-player, as well as 1-on-1 matches.
In my play group, we have a rule for playing magic cards (in multiplayer) that actually makes it so the magic-genius may not want to try playing magic cards again. Here it is: if you go cast a spell, we declare you the winner. You exit the game and the game goes on as if you weren't there to begin with. It's like "Yeah yeah, you cast a spell and came in first. Now shoo... we're playing for second."
It was meant to take the wind out of the sails, and to discourage playing magic cards. They're just not fun to play against (my opinion, not a fact).
If only there was a whole thread about going to your first GP... I would totally call it "So You're Going To Your First Grand Prix: A Primer" and I'd stick it as the first post in this form.
Back in 2008 LSV and some other pro which I can't seem to remember made finals of an extended pro tour playing the first version of an elf combo deck, and they called it "ELVES!", with the exclamation mark. It won by chord of calling into predator dragon. It could also play grapeshot, and I think it played umezawa's jitte in the side to win by aggro easier.
The standard version came soon after, and it was called elfball. It didn't kill with fireball, it killed with roar of the crowd.
Combo elves is the name the deck took in legacy... but it's seriously not much of a conceptual difference as a fancy of names.
The other pro was Matej Zatlkaj. It was his first real breakout success. He's a pretty good player, too. He recently got another PT top 8 in San Diego.
The first time I went to FNM at my LGS, the regulars (college age kids) didn't respect me at all. They would act salty after losing games to me, saying I got "lucky topdecks" or "I had more rares in my deck than they did". After I went 3-0 at a few drafts, then the regulars started asking me for advice on card evaluations and deck building. I think competitive people just don't respect you until you've proven yourself to them. There were a couple of people I thought were insufferable (constantly trying to rules lawyer me, or psyche me out with mind games) when I started playing, but they seemed to have stopped playing at the store.
Anyone who claims that they lost because "you had more rares" is an idiot, not a competitive player.
A draft FNM? little wonder why people didn't show up. In my area all FNMs are free standard tournaments. sure, the prizes are small maybe 20-30 bucks in credit at the most, plus the promo card. but draft? sure drafting is fun and all but its far too luck based to be a real competitive event. For the life of me i don't even know why they sometimes have draft in the pro tour. may as well have a paper rock scissors competition.
Also, it sounds like your local playerbase sucks. Before moving to where i am now i lived in a town further south. there were two places to play magic one was a small, friendly comic shop with a diverse group of people ranging from casual to more serious people it was fun. and the other was a place much like the one you described, a big video game store with a nonetheless cramped space to play, only six people ever showed up, and they were all snobby tw*ts with their noses in the air. me and some friends brought our home brewed casual decks looking for some fun not planning on winning anything. but everytime we played with these jerks they ask questions like "why aren't you playing this deck or that deck ?" "why don't you have shocklands?" (this was when they were $20 each.) all said with that nose in the upper atmosphere, condescending tone. I responded with "because im not a moron blowing my student loans on cards like you are" that shut them up reliably.
If their attitude was not bad enough the judge was a corrupt douchebag who insisted that my cipher card was exiled when he dissipated the casted copy. when i brought up the point that he was effectively ruling that an exiled card can be exiled again without returning to the board, he told if if i didn't like it i could leave. so i left and never did business there again.
Drafting is far from luck based. You sound like a very sore person, especially with your attitude towards competitive players; I would recommend sticking to the kitchen table. Drafts would be pretty luck-based for you, since you clearly don't posses the skill required to comprehend drafting.
So my friends and I predominately play casual magic most of the time. One of my friends in particular (he observes no bans, restrictions, set restrictions, or formats) is thoroughly convinced if you play a certain color in your deck, you MUST play *blank* card of that color to guarantee a win. I won't argue the merits or detriments of his argument, but I did notice a trend among our play group that supported his viewpoint. Personally, I typically build a lot of my decks in Green (I like stompy creatures and lots of mana to play with), but there's one card that I always come back to, and include in ALL of my decks whenever I build with Green, and that's Acidic Ooze. The card is so versatile in a variety of deck archetypes. He's a body if you need it and removal for almost all permanent types. As a group, we came up with 5 cards we voted on (not all of us agreed unanimously in a group of four people) that we thought should be in every deck that plays a particular color (regardless of format, and excluding the Unglued and Unhinged Sets). Here they are:
What do you guys think? Are there other "must play" cards in each color that you feel should be included/play in each of your decks that contain a certain color?
If you're playing acidic ooze, you don't need force of will since force is only good when you're playing against good cards. Also, dark ritual doesn't fit into pretty much 80% of black decks (it's only good in storm).
I know that it is a little expensive, but it could have competetive potential. Anyway, consider the alternative is playing BR zombies, delver or RG aggro, all of which cost more than this deck.
This is coming as someone who started with prior gaming experience, but I never understood what made "expert-level" expansions "expert-level". I could understand DFCs pretty well when I went (as a noob) to my first innistrad draft. I at least knew enough to look up the mechanics of the set and understand them, and I don't really feel like it's reasonable to neglect older players and not reprint cards that would go well in standard for the sake of "complexity issues".
My family knows and doesn't really care.
I have no girlfriend.
My coworkers don't really care that much about my personal life.
Most of my friends play.
Precisely. The value of your cards isn't exactly something that's hard to find. I have no problem with "sharking" pre-teens. If they want to get their value, then they could actually know the value of their cards.
Then go play casual. You people are the same ones who complain about netdecks, complain when someone sharks you out of a card you didn't know the value of, and complains when someone beats your bad homebrew. Go back to your kitchen table and let the people with any skill at all play.
Sure, it's a challenge and a fanboy-bragging right; but doesn't it get old after playing a few cards?
What's the appeal? Is it knowing you have found a way to play with cards? Is the humility one can put another through by being the butt of the joke by losing to magic cards? Is it the challenge of finding new ways to play magic cards? Is it just to say that not only did you think it up, but you pulled it off (Way to go Felix, any another other "nifty" tricks in that hat of yours?")?
Please stick to my question. The below "hidden" example is how a play group handles playing with magic cards. Just skip over it and proceed to where the muddled discussion ends and the topic is talked about...
Addendum to OG post:
Left out an important point (so the humble-man who feels better knocking me down a peg): This is in regards to a casual play group that enjoys multi-player, as well as 1-on-1 matches.
In my play group, we have a rule for playing magic cards (in multiplayer) that actually makes it so the magic-genius may not want to try playing magic cards again. Here it is: if you go cast a spell, we declare you the winner. You exit the game and the game goes on as if you weren't there to begin with. It's like "Yeah yeah, you cast a spell and came in first. Now shoo... we're playing for second."
It was meant to take the wind out of the sails, and to discourage playing magic cards. They're just not fun to play against (my opinion, not a fact).
EDIT: Emphasis here: what is the appeal...
Spam/troll infraction.
-Sene
Reading is difficult.
The other pro was Matej Zatlkaj. It was his first real breakout success. He's a pretty good player, too. He recently got another PT top 8 in San Diego.
Anyone who claims that they lost because "you had more rares" is an idiot, not a competitive player.
Drafting is far from luck based. You sound like a very sore person, especially with your attitude towards competitive players; I would recommend sticking to the kitchen table. Drafts would be pretty luck-based for you, since you clearly don't posses the skill required to comprehend drafting.
If you're playing acidic ooze, you don't need force of will since force is only good when you're playing against good cards. Also, dark ritual doesn't fit into pretty much 80% of black decks (it's only good in storm).