As for a 4 mana drop, I'm a firm believer in Elspeth, Knight-Errant. She is a beast and very difficult to take down, not only that, but she can function as a clock swinging in for 4damage a turn on her own.
I used to be a believer in Hero of Bladehold, however, she has been removed with Path to Exile way too many times for me to recall. I just prefer a threat that is harder destroy, and Elspeth does a good job at that. There are only 2 cards that kill planeswalkers, and neither are popular in the Modern Meta.
Were you the one playing a green white deck and got blood mooned on turn 3?
I netdecked it from the norin thread in deck creation. It's SovietOlga's build. And yes, it can be extremely annoying to play against when playing online because of the MTGO gui.
I'm glad it played out okay. Lately, I have been trying out Dark Confidant in the place of the Blood Moons to try and draw some cards and take advantage of the life gain in the deck. Let me know how the rest of your testing goes!
Hello all, as promised here is the current list I'm running. I have been a believer in Freggle's ideas (a user on mtgthesource) who has blossomed the original idea of the Helm and RIP combo. As I mentioned before, I believe that it's the best route to go with enchantress at the moment in the current meta. I agree with what he said a few pages back regarding testing [CARD]Gitaxian Probe/CARD]s in the mainboard as it does accumulate hand information, which is vital in this format. Not only does it do that, but it also can-trips!
This deck focuses on resilience, as it does not run all that many Non-Basic lands to get wasted. It takes advantage of the new legend rule with Serra's Sanctum, which helps poop out an emrakul later. I agree with Drifting Skies regarding Emrakul as the secondary win condition for this deck. If you're able to lock out an opponent, he always finishes the job as it's uncounterable and timewalks for the win. Not to mention the infinite turn combo with karakas if needed be.
The deck focuses on drawing into your core engine with the help of Gitaxian Probe and Abundant Growth in the deck. It helps against counterspells, which is what the deck actually is a bit scared about.
As for the Sideboard; here are some short explanations:
Oblivion Ring - Show N Tell, scary ****
Leyline - burn, discard, jund, storm, etc
Runned Halo - True-Name Nemesis, Tendrils, etc.
Gaddock Teeg - A great Zenith target, completely shuts down Miracles
Sigarda - My 3rd win condition in the deck. She is a great surprise against a lot of players. If I'm predicting some meddling mages, or some hate against my Helm RIP combo, she usually smacks them up for changing their gameplan.
Blind Obedience - Mostly against Elves, slows them down quite a bit
Currently, I'm still testing out BWR version; magus would not work in a 3 colour deck. I have thought about this myself in the WR version. However, my reasoning for going with the enchantment version was that lightning bolt is very common, and making all your opponent's lands red might make it easy for them to bolt him, losing tempo. I'll have to test it still. However, I still think the enchantment might be better for its resilience.
When Sigil gets countered you play your second one or Replenish thereafter. When you untap with Sigil in play you have essentially won the game.
Personally, I believe that Rest In Peace should be a 4 of in every enchantress build as the new standard. Most Legacy decks uses the graveyard on a regular basis, having this mb hate helps give me you an advantage on that premise alone. I don't think Replenish is worthy of a slot anymore, as it's outdated. No one really packs enchantress hate, other than Burning Wish decks. I like to have an instant win, whether it's Helm of Obedience or Emrakul.
Sigil tokens can easily be killed from Ratched Bomb, engineered explosives, maestrom pulse, and/or echoing truth
Looking at that list, my biggest critique would be the win cons.
First Emrakul, second, no Sigil, third, the kinda half done RIPHelm (which requires a much heavier commitment to cards in deck than other enchantress win cons). No one has ever given me a decent answer for why Emrakul's good. Compare to our major win cons, starting with big E herself:
Emrakul - yes, undeniably one of the most powerful creatures ever printed - if you can cast her. But she costs 15 mana. If you have 14 mana, she is the textbook definition of a dead card - she won't draw you cards, there's no proactive way other than Solitary to discard her for her shuffle. And while you could spend this turn casting stuff for the mana for next turn, with the others, you could have either won or already set up your win.
Sigil - Undeniably the best win condition for that style of the deck. In terms of the above list its omission is my single biggest criticism. There's a reason its been the goto win con since it was printed - because it just staples 4/4 fliers to what we're doing anyway. I'm not gonna compare it to emrakul because no win con stacks up to it well enough to cut it.
Words - Now here's the real comparison to Emrakul. If you've got 14 mana an emrakul, you've got a dead card. If you've got 14 mana and words, you draw X cards from casting it (where X is your enchantress count) and still have the potential for up to 10 damage right then and there.
RIPHelm - Another that beats emrakul in terms of flexibility. Winning with RIPHelm takes 7 mana, less than half what emrakul does, and it can win the turn you can draw it. Using that 14 mana benchmark again means that if you don't have it, you have 7 mana to dig to it and still win with it.
So Emrakul requires a pretty hefty mana investment all at once where the others all require either a significantly lesser single investment, a cost that can be paid over time, or both.
Beyond the win cons though - you're kinda trying to play both major forms of enchantress at once, which won't get the best of any of them. You're using the old Naya style list of silver bullets. But you've also got RIPHelm, but even with enchantress's draw power, without a way to tutor for Helm, hitting both isn't going to be consistent enough. Most decks will either go for a suite of silver bullets backed up by 2-3 tutors (on top of groves) and 2-3 replenish, eventually winning off Words or Sigil, or a more straight combo build that cuts the silver bullets, runs 3 helm, 4 RIP, 1-2 energy fields and a sigil and all it wants to do is shield with energy field or solitary, then land Helm and RIP, then win. No silver bullet shenanigans, just a combo win.
On your board, the same goes about your main deck silver bullets. Karmic justice is standard. Words of wind is only ever run in the snapfae version of the deck. The rest of the time its just not enough because we don't have that infinite mana. Ideally, you want the tutor in the main (when are you ever going to board it in? What games do you not want it G1 but do G2?), nevermore never works as well as you think it will. The rest I'm guessing are meta calls, as I dropped stuff like stony silence a while back, but I pack the remaining 3 o-rings in my side, 3 city of solitude to backup my one in the main, and I use pithing needle over stony silence because I don't see enough artifacts that I need a blanket neuter, where being able to neuter any specific card I need to is much more potent.
I disagree on Sigil being the best win condition for this deck. I have been grinding out games with enchantress for some time now, I shall post my deck a bit later today.
Sigil is just too slow, it doesn't do anything the turn you slam it down, unless you have other enchantments to play. Even at that, 5 mana plus the the requirement of other cards just isn't that good of an investment. I ran Sigil in the past and well, good players allow you to play your mana enchantments and draw all the cards you want. They will just wait until you drop it down. That's when they will counter it.
With Emrakul, it is a guaranteed uncounterable beast, in which you timewalk and win on the following turn. With the new legendary rule, running anything less than 4 Serra's Sanctum is foolish. Chaining a Sanctum to another sanctum spitting out the colourless fattie happens for often then you'd think.
Given that, I don't rely on him as my primary win condition, I also run the Helm + RIP combo. 4 RIP and 2 helms.
Hello all, I have just picked up this deck over the last few months and now that its fully assembled, I would like to ask some help regarding Sideboarding options.
What do you side in and out versus the majority of the meta?
I've noticed a lot of builds running 2x Cataclysm SB. What are these boarded in against?
I copied your deck yesterday and played a few games with it. it was fun, but very inconsistent. It's too easy to not draw Norin or Ranger the entire game. Purphorous is amazing. Champion of the Parish is a bit lackluster - Ajani's Pridemate usually outshines it by quite a bit, if you draw at least one soul sister. With Purphorous and Pridemate, you have your win conditions already, Champion is only good if you draw neither of these.
I agree that it's crucial to draw a Norin as early as you can. As a result, I have changed my list a little and cut a Ranger of Eos, as it's not as important to draw these, unless you haven't drawn a Norin all game. This way, it lowers our curve a bit. I really enjoy the blood moons in the MB, as they are "free wins" more often then you may think. Most people can't do much with only red mana in the first game, and usually don't have ways to deal with it.
I was thinking of splashing black in for some 4x Dark Confidants. I was thinking of removing the bloodmoons, but I'm not sure if the third colour is necessary.
I disagree about Champion of the Parish. I believe that he is a strong turn 1 drop, which synergies with the entire deck. I often find that he requires less effort than the Ajani's pridemage, as the only life gain relies on drawing and playing a Soul Sister on first turn, which isn't always the best first play. Norin + Champion is just nuts. The champion get's 2 +1/+1 counters by the time it's your turn. I often played him first turn followed by a soul sister and norin on turn two, which is a strong play.
I ended up adding in MB Blood Moons because really, why wouldn't you? It's great against most decks in the meta, and can win games on its own. I got rid of the path to exiles, because I figured I'd be helping them out if Blood Moon is out on the board. You don't really want to grant them that basic.
I also fixed up the landbase a bit; added in 4 fetchlands, because I scratched my head as to why there wasn't 8 already. Made sure that the fetches are all able to find a basic plains.
What are your guys thoughts of a Land Destruction route? I have been brewing one as we speak and having Prossh, Skyraider of Kher finish up my opponents.
After some testing, I ended up with this list. It plays much like a marverick deck, however, I feel like the Human subtheme creatures value with Cavern of souls, making a control match easier. I also decided to mb Green Sun's Zenith, just because it's too good not too run.
The only time Revelation is noticeably stronger then Augury is when you have a ton of mana to sink into it.
As stated in the early game Revelations at 3 or less are nice but usually not that game impacting. I think the only time Revelation starts really doing work is at X=4 or more. Anytime I force a control deck to Rev at 3 or less I am quite happy either they are having trouble hitting land drops or they are on the ropes and need the life+draw to try to answer what I am doing.
Even then, it's power level at x=4 making the spell cost 7. 4 cards and 4 life. Now the compare that to Cruel Ultimatum; Draw 3, Return a creature to your hand from your gy, and gain 5 life AND target opponent lose 3 cards in hand, a creature and gets drained for 5 life. Now, tell me which is better
Sphinx's Revelation isn't as good in Modern as it is in Standard.
Why would you ever play Steam Augury over Gifts Ungiven in modern? Yeah... The card has exactly one home, which is standard URx control, likely UBR, since white has Revelation which is just way stronger card draw. Jace is also better than Augury.
I disagree with the last couple statements, I believe it is much better than bother Sphinx's Revelation and Jace. It automatically gives you 2-3 cards eot, and digs a total of 5 cards, which is a good chunk.
For the same mana as Augury, Sphinx only nets you 1 cards and 1 life. Even at 5 mana, which is still pitiful, you draw a messily 2 cards and a laughable 2 life.
Jace is a sorcery speed and would not work in any of the UR control decks shells to be honest. It's too slow and doesn't give you enough advantage for the amount of support he needs.
I think we've reached an impasse, because I don't feel that Steam Augury is merely a casual card. I've played with it alongside some of the most powerful cards ever printed, and it performed. Other Cubers have communicated similar experiences. As always, having perfect information about your own hand is king (just like Gifts Ungiven and Fact or Fiction); that's what makes these cards amazing. Yes, getting to choose your pile is better, which is why Fact or Fiction is better than Augury; hell, only a few years ago FoF was restricted in Vintage! I think that being "worse than Fact or Fiction" is okay, because the card is still good enough.
The main thing that hurts Augury is that it requires both U and R. That's its biggest flaw (and what could keep it from being widely played), not what's written in its text box.
I feel the same way about Steam Augury, i feel it will find a spot in modern UWR and Grixis Cruel Control decks. What do you think Steam Augury will will stabilize at, price-wise?
I used to be a believer in Hero of Bladehold, however, she has been removed with Path to Exile way too many times for me to recall. I just prefer a threat that is harder destroy, and Elspeth does a good job at that. There are only 2 cards that kill planeswalkers, and neither are popular in the Modern Meta.
Elspeth all the way for this slot.
I'm glad it played out okay. Lately, I have been trying out Dark Confidant in the place of the Blood Moons to try and draw some cards and take advantage of the life gain in the deck. Let me know how the rest of your testing goes!
This deck focuses on resilience, as it does not run all that many Non-Basic lands to get wasted. It takes advantage of the new legend rule with Serra's Sanctum, which helps poop out an emrakul later. I agree with Drifting Skies regarding Emrakul as the secondary win condition for this deck. If you're able to lock out an opponent, he always finishes the job as it's uncounterable and timewalks for the win. Not to mention the infinite turn combo with karakas if needed be.
The deck focuses on drawing into your core engine with the help of Gitaxian Probe and Abundant Growth in the deck. It helps against counterspells, which is what the deck actually is a bit scared about.
4x Windswept Heath
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Serra's Sanctum
2x Karkaks
1x Plains
6x Forest
Creatures (5)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Enchantments (27)
3x Rest in Peace
4x Enchantress's Pressence
4x Mirri's Guile
2x Sterling Grove
4x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Abundant Growth
1x Sphere of Safety
2x Solitary Confinement
2x Helm of Obedience
Soceries (6)
3x Green Sun's Zennith
3x Gitaxian Probe
4x Oblivion Ring
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Mindbreaker Trap
1x Rest In Peace
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Sterling Grove
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
As for the Sideboard; here are some short explanations:
Oblivion Ring - Show N Tell, scary ****
Leyline - burn, discard, jund, storm, etc
Runned Halo - True-Name Nemesis, Tendrils, etc.
Gaddock Teeg - A great Zenith target, completely shuts down Miracles
Sigarda - My 3rd win condition in the deck. She is a great surprise against a lot of players. If I'm predicting some meddling mages, or some hate against my Helm RIP combo, she usually smacks them up for changing their gameplan.
Blind Obedience - Mostly against Elves, slows them down quite a bit
Currently, I'm still testing out BWR version; magus would not work in a 3 colour deck. I have thought about this myself in the WR version. However, my reasoning for going with the enchantment version was that lightning bolt is very common, and making all your opponent's lands red might make it easy for them to bolt him, losing tempo. I'll have to test it still. However, I still think the enchantment might be better for its resilience.
Personally, I believe that Rest In Peace should be a 4 of in every enchantress build as the new standard. Most Legacy decks uses the graveyard on a regular basis, having this mb hate helps give me you an advantage on that premise alone. I don't think Replenish is worthy of a slot anymore, as it's outdated. No one really packs enchantress hate, other than Burning Wish decks. I like to have an instant win, whether it's Helm of Obedience or Emrakul.
Sigil tokens can easily be killed from Ratched Bomb, engineered explosives, maestrom pulse, and/or echoing truth
I'm with Freggle on this!
I disagree on Sigil being the best win condition for this deck. I have been grinding out games with enchantress for some time now, I shall post my deck a bit later today.
Sigil is just too slow, it doesn't do anything the turn you slam it down, unless you have other enchantments to play. Even at that, 5 mana plus the the requirement of other cards just isn't that good of an investment. I ran Sigil in the past and well, good players allow you to play your mana enchantments and draw all the cards you want. They will just wait until you drop it down. That's when they will counter it.
With Emrakul, it is a guaranteed uncounterable beast, in which you timewalk and win on the following turn. With the new legendary rule, running anything less than 4 Serra's Sanctum is foolish. Chaining a Sanctum to another sanctum spitting out the colourless fattie happens for often then you'd think.
Given that, I don't rely on him as my primary win condition, I also run the Helm + RIP combo. 4 RIP and 2 helms.
Thank you, that article is helpful.
What do you side in and out versus the majority of the meta?
I've noticed a lot of builds running 2x Cataclysm SB. What are these boarded in against?
I agree that it's crucial to draw a Norin as early as you can. As a result, I have changed my list a little and cut a Ranger of Eos, as it's not as important to draw these, unless you haven't drawn a Norin all game. This way, it lowers our curve a bit. I really enjoy the blood moons in the MB, as they are "free wins" more often then you may think. Most people can't do much with only red mana in the first game, and usually don't have ways to deal with it.
I was thinking of splashing black in for some 4x Dark Confidants. I was thinking of removing the bloodmoons, but I'm not sure if the third colour is necessary.
I disagree about Champion of the Parish. I believe that he is a strong turn 1 drop, which synergies with the entire deck. I often find that he requires less effort than the Ajani's pridemage, as the only life gain relies on drawing and playing a Soul Sister on first turn, which isn't always the best first play. Norin + Champion is just nuts. The champion get's 2 +1/+1 counters by the time it's your turn. I often played him first turn followed by a soul sister and norin on turn two, which is a strong play.
I tweaked the list a little and ended up with this:.
21 LANDS
25 CREATURES
7 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
7 OTHER SPELLS
Not sure if anyone noticed but I ended up changing the following:
-3 Mentor the Meek
-2 Path to Exile
-1 Norin, the Wary
+3 Blood Moon
+1 Lightning Bolt
+1 Dismember
+1 Ajani Pridemage
I ended up adding in MB Blood Moons because really, why wouldn't you? It's great against most decks in the meta, and can win games on its own. I got rid of the path to exiles, because I figured I'd be helping them out if Blood Moon is out on the board. You don't really want to grant them that basic.
I also fixed up the landbase a bit; added in 4 fetchlands, because I scratched my head as to why there wasn't 8 already. Made sure that the fetches are all able to find a basic plains.
I'm thinking of possibly testing out Magus of the Moon as it is also a human and would synergize well with Champion of the parish and Purphoros, god of the forge
Thoughts?
After all the best LD cards are in Jund colours!
Creatures: 28 (23 Humans including dryad arbor)
Non-Creature Spells: 11
Lands: 22
Sideboard:
You mentioned that I should run the Dark Depths and Thespian Stage combo, which of the one drops would you suggest I take out for them?
Even then, it's power level at x=4 making the spell cost 7. 4 cards and 4 life. Now the compare that to Cruel Ultimatum; Draw 3, Return a creature to your hand from your gy, and gain 5 life AND target opponent lose 3 cards in hand, a creature and gets drained for 5 life. Now, tell me which is better
Sphinx's Revelation isn't as good in Modern as it is in Standard.
I disagree with the last couple statements, I believe it is much better than bother Sphinx's Revelation and Jace. It automatically gives you 2-3 cards eot, and digs a total of 5 cards, which is a good chunk.
For the same mana as Augury, Sphinx only nets you 1 cards and 1 life. Even at 5 mana, which is still pitiful, you draw a messily 2 cards and a laughable 2 life.
Jace is a sorcery speed and would not work in any of the UR control decks shells to be honest. It's too slow and doesn't give you enough advantage for the amount of support he needs.
I feel the same way about Steam Augury, i feel it will find a spot in modern UWR and Grixis Cruel Control decks. What do you think Steam Augury will will stabilize at, price-wise?