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  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from tedv
    Felidar Sovereign wins games faster for less mana and is splashable. Do at least 75% of readers here want it banned?


    Apples and oranges. As others said, CV wins on the spot, not at the next upkeep, which gives not only counter magic, but a full turn of removal in which to deal with it. Also, CV is a single card combo. With Felidar, best case scenario requiring no additional card assistance, you have to still be at 40 life, and not get pinged before your next upkeep.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from asteriskreaper
    The metagame can adapt to kill it though. We had a niv-mizzet infinite combo edh in mine,and we simple started running underworld dreams and he rage changed to heartless hidetsuga and rage quit when I opening handed a leyline of sanctity.


    The issue with this mentality is that you're not adapting to your local meta. You're adapting to the entire format. I can tell you that if CV were unbanned, I would be faced with the choice of adapting EVERY SINGLE DECK I PLAY on MTGO, or not adapting at all. The issue with the card is that it requires zero synergy with the rest of the deck and is literally just a "this resolves and I win on the spot" single card strategy which every 5C deck should be running. Therefore, everyone that doesn't run counterspells has to decide to run anti-CV hate or just deal with the fact that if they face a 5C deck they'll see CV at some point.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    CV deserves to be banned simply because it's an auto-include in EVERY 5 color deck. In fact, it's probably the only card I can think of that would make me say "if you're not running this card, you're an idiot."
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Card Comparison: Staff of Nin vs Mind's Eye
    In terms of potential power level, Mind's Eye is the winner every time. If you have the mana open, you're drawing three extra cards a round. Factoring in real world scenarios, here's my thoughts:

    Staff of Nin:
    Pro: consistent card draw once per turn at no additional investment
    Pro: ability to ping creatures/people
    Pro: not very OP, most likely won't die to targeted hate
    Con: only one extra card per turn
    Con: second ability has limited use in EDH

    Mind's Eye:
    Pro: very powerful card draw
    Con: draws targeted hate (not to mention that it can turn YOU into a threat)
    Con: power ranges from mediocre to good depending on what the deck wants to do (i.e., best fit for a deck that doesn't want to tap out during its turn)

    TL;DR: Mind's Eye is a better card overall, but if you're just looking for an extra card every turn, Staff wins because it keeps you flying below the radar.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Sharing Cards Between Decks
    Quote from DeadManSeven
    I don't swap cards between decks, but that's only because I find it a huge pain in the ass. I wouldn't look down on anyone who floats costly staples between decks.


    My sentiments exactly. Although, if a player is constantly swapping a third of their deck between various decks, it would get old pretty fast.

    As a personal preference, aside from the annoyance, I like that it makes my decks feel individual. I find that on MTGO, where only owning one copy isn't a limitation, makes all my decks feel too similar. Step two of deck-building shouldn't be "add every staple for X colors".

    Edit: Squirrely reminded me, I had a playgroup in which one player sucked at keeping his decks organized, and would be good for playing with a deck that was +/- a few cards every once in a while. This wasn't intentional, mind you, he just sucked like that. I would imagine that swapping cards between decks (and especially if you used the same sleeves in order to make it easier) would make this happen more frequently.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Commander Rulings FAQ
    What is "The Spirit of EDH"?
    The Optional Sideboard Rule
    Relentless Rats (and the One-Of Rule)
    "Wish" Effects
    Mulligans
    Poison Counters
    Commanders and the Legend Rule
    Commanders and Hidden Information
    Is there more than one Commander ban list?
    Who exactly is in charge of the Commander ban lists?
    What is the "Watch List"?
    Why and when was Card X banned?
    What happens when my general gets tucked?
    Can I run Extort cards in a mono-white/black deck?
    What happens when I exile someones general face down?
    When is the ban list updated?
    What goes on at the quarterly Rules Committee meetings?
    What is the official stance on gold bordered cards?




    What is "The Spirit of EDH"?
    Quote from Ban Ki-Moon »
    I don't think that the spirit of EDH has much of anything to do with power level. The spirit of EDH only cares that you keep your opponents in mind as you're choosing your strategy. If your opponents can enjoy winning against you OR losing to you, it doesn't really matter how much sheer power you're packing. Similarly, it doesn't really matter if you only win 1/10 games, if all you ever do is try to gum up the board, restrict your opponents' options, or generally just say "no" a lot. In fact, decks that are too weak are just as bad as ones that are too strong. Your opponents are playing Magic because they want you to challenge them. Easy wins do not a game night make.

    Source



    The Optional Sideboard Rule (September 15, 2013)
    Quote from Genomancer »
    If the tournament organizer or game convener chooses to allow them, players may bring a 10-card sideboard with their EDH deck. After Generals are chosen and revealed, players may swap some cards in their deck for those in their sideboard.
    This is intended for tournament use as a way to give players access to "boring" or "otherwise undesirable" answer cards (like cheap spot removal against Zur the Enchanter) without watering down their maindeck. Again, note that this rule is optional, and sideboards are not part of the "official" Commander rules. Also, cards like Glittering Wish can fetch cards in your sideboard.

    September 2013 Update:

    With the September 2013 ban list announcement, the Rules Committee has ceased to support their "optional" rules, which included sideboards. What this means is that officially, sideboards are not allowed. As always though, your playgroup is more than welcome to use them.



    Relentless Rats (and the One-Of Rule)

    Currently, the only cards which have specific rules that circumvent the normal limit to the number you may play in one deck are Relentless Rats and Shadowborn Apostle. According to this thread, cards which follow these templates are not subject to the 1-of rule in Commander, and you may run up to 99 copies.



    "Wish" effects (May 18, 2010)
    Quote from Commander Official Rule #15 »
    Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in EDH unless the optional sideboard rule is in use. If sideboards are used, wishes and similar cards may retrieve sideboard cards.
    Wishes are legal to put in your deck, but effectively do nothing unless you are using the aforementioned optional sideboard rule. Cards like Burning Wish and Ring of Ma'Ruf used to be able to retrieve cards from the "Removed From the Game" zone, but that functionality was obsoleted by Wizards of the Coast with the M10 rules changes.

    This ruling was officially posted after the printing of Spawnsire of Ulamog in the midst of a heated discussion. See this thread, page 7.
    Quote from papa_funk »
    Unfortunately, it doesn't. There has to be a wish rule, regardless of what the rule actually says, because the CR doesn't provide enough structure for casual play to implement wishes. We don't need 4 people sitting down with 4 different beliefs as to how wishes should work and then having to have an argument in the middle of play.

    We set the default at zero so that people who want to play wishes have to discuss it with their playgroup and set appropriate boundaries. As I said on MTGCommander, we're happy to reword the rule if there are better suggestions, but not if it lets a player bully their way into their interpretation.



    Mulligans

    As of the January 2016 ban list update the official Commander mulligan is the multiplayer Vancouver mulligan. That is, each player in turn may mulligan their full hand and draw a new hand of one less card, with the first mulligan being a "free" mulligan and redrawing 7 cards. Then once all mulligans have been performed, anyone with a hand of fewer than 7 cards may Scry 1.

    Previously, Commander used a "Modified Partial Paris" aka "Brittany" mulligan rule. The way this worked was:
    Quote from Commander Rule #8 »
    A. In turn order, players may exile (face down) some or all of the cards in their hand.
    B. Each player then draws one less card from their deck than the number they exiled.
    C. Players who exiled at least one card may return to step 1 and repeat the process, drawing one less card each time.
    D. Players shuffle all exiled cards into their deck.
    The important thing to remember is that Commander is a social format. Just as when Partial Paris was the official mulligan, each playgroup should have a mulligan style which suits their needs and they can agree upon.



    Poison Counters

    Once a player has 10 or more poison counters, he or she loses the game. There has been no official statement by the Rules Committee regarding changing this total for Commander. However, here are a few related quotes from Sheldon himself. The first is from this thread in March 2009 (long before Infect and Scars of Mirrodin), the second is from post #8 of this thread in October of 2010, and the third from this thread in February 2011.
    Quote from Sheldon, March 26, 2009 »
    I'm somehow pleased that poison counters are creating fear and doubt. Huzzah for obscure mechincs!!!
    Quote from Sheldon, October 9, 2010 »
    At this point, we haven't even discussed talking about changing the poison number.
    Quote from Sheldon, February 24, 2011 »
    We've talked about 20 poison, and we might revisit it at some point, but right now, it doesn't seem worth changing. We'd like to have as few rules differences as possible between the format and 'regular' Magic--just enough (40 life, Commander damage, Command Zone) to make it distinct without being too onerous.
    On Season 2, Episode 4 of CommanderCast at 00:08:10, one of the members of the Rules Committee gives his thoughts on the subject:
    Quote from Alex, March 7, 2011 »
    In my opinion, it's a little too early at this point, especially because Action [the third set in Scars of Mirrodin block] hasn't been released yet, it's a little bit too early to conclude whether or not Poison needs to be dealt with in some way. I personally think it would be really awkward to have it be the only format to have a poison limit that's not 10, so that in itself kind of makes me not want to change it...




    Commanders and the Legend Rule

    No exception is made here. Commanders are subject to the legend rule just like any other Legendary creature. With the release of M14, the legend rule only checks legends/planeswalkers controlled by each player, not the entire table.
    Quote from Matt Tabak »
    Under the new rules, any time two or more legendary permanents with the same name are controlled by a player, that player chooses one of them and the rest are put into their owners' graveyards as a state-based action.




    Commanders and Hidden Information (May 27, 2013)

    From this thread:
    Quote from Ban Ki-moon »
    In Your Library:The location of each commander is open information (everyone should always know what zone each commander is in), but you don't get to know where in your library your commander is. If you prefer to keep your commander in a differently-coloured sleeve (I do), you should swap it for a regular one before putting it in your library.

    On the Battlefield: Since the card itself is designated as the commander, face down commanders still deal commander damage. Your opponents are also allowed to know which morph creature is your commander.




    Is there more than one Commander ban list?

    Yes and no. There are actually two accepted ban lists, one for multiplayer, and one for Duel Commander.

    The official list (multiplayer) is the only list used by the Rules Committee, although they encourage social play and adopting house rules when doing so increases the enjoyment of the individual group.

    The Duel Commander list was created by an independent group which fostered the competitive 1v1 Commander environment. They manage their own ban list which is geared towards balancing a 1v1 competitive environment. Their website along with the most up-to-date ban list can be found here.



    Who exactly is in charge of the Commander ban lists?

    A group of individuals known as the Rules Committee calls the shots when it comes to Commander. Even when Wizards officially adopted the EDH format, they left all control of such things in the hands of the Rules Committee. If you want to know precisely who is on the Rules Committee, see this article.

    The Duel Commander 1v1 list is maintained by Claire Dupré (Level 3 DCI Judge), Antoine Fruscio (Commander TO), Ivan Morel (Level 2 DCI Judge), Alexis Rassel (aka smc, Level 3 DCI Judge), and Benoît Verwaerd (player) (link). Kevin Desprez, the Level 4 Judge formerly on the Rules committee, has not been actively involved in the French 1v1 scene for several years now (link).

    For the most up to date information about Duel Commander, please visit the official website.



    What is the "Watch List?"

    The Watch List used to be a database of cards the Rules Committee considered to be possible candidates for banning. The watch list was discontinued on June 20, 2009, as evidenced by this thread. For information's sake, here is an extremely outdated example. During the older ban announcements, the Rules Committee would announce cards on the Watch List at the same time as the banned/unbanned cards. The RC eventually discontinued the Watch List for a variety of reasons, namely because it was considered to be more work managing for little reward.



    Why and when was card X banned?

    Thankful for the Ban List, by Sheldon (Star City Games, November 2014)


    Balance - Essentially, this card has an effect that is too powerful for its mana cost, and it was ironically never used in a balanced manner. (Official Explanation Pending)

    Biorhythm
    Biorhythm was the very first card Sheldon considered for banning. (Official Explanation Pending)

    Source: Star City Games, November 10, 2010

    Braids, Cabal Minion (as a Commander only June 2009, fully banned September 2014)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    If you''re not absolutely prepared for it and capable of doing something about it on the first few turns, a Braids lock is nearly inevitable. We also don't want games to devolve into being about a single card every time that card hits the table (see Kokusho). Braids as a General defines unfun.

    Source: Official site, June 18, 2009

    Channel (June 20, 2010)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    First- or second-turn Channel into Emrakul or similar things are simply negatively format-warping.

    Source: Official site, June 18, 2010

    From: Leave Chaos Orb Alone!
    Quote from Papa Funk »

    Three reasons:

    1) Making exceptions to the Vintage banlist is not worth the gain. Yes, we did it with Shaharazad for a while. It was a bad idea.

    2) We strive to be inclusive. Physical dexterity cards are not inclusive and endorsing them is not a message we want to send.

    3) We had enough people posting on here demanding rulings on how wishes work. I don't want to be the one who has to set parameters on Chaos Orb and answer all the insane questions that come down the line.

    If your playgroup wants to use the card, sounds like a great plan.

    Coalition Victory (March 8, 2007)
    Quote from Genomancer »
    Banning of a card continues to be based on one of three principles...
    • When a card's power level in multiplayer EDH is signficantly in excess of both it's mana cost AND power level in other formats (due to different rules or game sizes). [Examples include Panoptic Mirror and Biorythm]
    • A card's dollar cost is prohibitive for most players and the card usually detracts from the playing experience of everyone in the game [The Power 8]
    • A card or class of cards can not be consistently interpreted by all players [Silver bordered cards]
    Coalition Victory is a strong candidate for the first principle.. it is a single card which can suddenly end interesting games with little difficulty, due to the presence of 5 color generals which the player is guaranteed to have access to. As such, opinion was unanimously in favor of banning it.

    Source: Official site, March 9, 2007

    Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (December 14, 2010)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    This is one on which we listened heavily to what the community was saying, and nearly without exception, everyone hates Emrakul. It’s a card that makes the game devolve into a war over a single card whenever it hits the table. Add to that the fact that its combination of abilities made is seriously unfun to play against. We had already had our eye on it, and when the community spoke, we listened.

    Source: Official site, December 14, 2010
    This is one on which we listened heavily to what the community was saying and nearly without exception everyone hates Emrakul. It's a card much like Kokusho that makes the game devolve into a war over a single card whenever it hits the table. We had already had our eye on it and when the community wailed and gnashed its teeth we listened.

    Personally I loved and hated Emrakul both when playing him (fortunately I never had to sit down with anyone running him as a General although I stared down his tentacles a few times). I mean as a player who wouldn't want a nearly uncounterable take-an-extra-turn kind of impossible-to-deal-with “I win” card at their disposal? But that was also the real downside. You just drop him on the board and win (don't get me started about Intet/Djinn of Wishes shenanigans) and while that might be fine in competitive formats it's not the EDH/Commander I want. While there might be a great rare story of how a few ragtag heroes ganged up to defeat the evil creature of the elder days for the most part it's “Emrakul—game's over.”

    I did find amusing the post that said something like “If you're losing to too much Emrakul you're not playing enough Bribery” but that very post illustrated the point. If not just individual games but entire environments (note the avoidance of the over- and misused term 'metagame') are devolving into the battle over Cthulhu then we've made the right decision.
    Source: Star City Games, December 15, 2010

    Erayo, Sortami Ascendant (banned as a Commander September 2011, fully banned September 2014)
    Quote from Genomancer »
    Listing Erayo as the third example of a legendary creature unwelcome in the commander role is likely to raise more questions. Some people will argue that other legends are more deserving of hate, but we feel that Erayo is a flagship example of a general whose sole purpose is to decrease interactivity. We don't think she's ever used to make games more interesting: the deck (and Erayo decks are pretty much identical) plays the same every game, requires fairly narrow answers to disrupt, and when it wins does so very early in the game.

    Worse, it's not always obvious to newer players that the game is over when Erayo flips, and they suffer through many turns of waiting to "actually die". Strategies like this, which win in confounding and non-obvious ways, often cause poor play experiences because they exacerbate the difference between players' understanding of the game.

    Is Erayo the most powerful early game mono-blue commander? It doesn't really matter.. what matters is that adding her to the banned list sends the clearest message that generals *like this* shouldn't be played... they make for boring games.

    Source: Official site, September 20, 2011

    Fastbond (June 20, 2009)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    The overwhelming reason Fastbond gets played is to fuel a degenerate combo. The EDH life total makes Fastbond easy and safe to use for an inconsiderable cost. Couple that with the land destruction combo with Crucible of Worlds (which we're still very happy we unbanned), and Fastbond becomes even worse. We're not opposed to land destruction or even mass land destruction, but asymmetrical mass land destruction that's nearly uncounterable worries us a great deal.

    Source: Official site, June 18, 2009

    Gifts Ungiven (June 20, 2009)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    We know that this will raise a great cry from some players, but as we previously noted, Gifts is simply broken (especially at the 3U cost and the fact that it's an Instant). The ability to tutor for two combo pieces and two ways to recur them generally makes this a one-card game-ender, which we feel is completely contrary to the EDH vision.

    Source Official site, June 18, 2009

    Griselbrand (June 19, 2012)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Griselbrand was relatively simple choice. We knew all along it was pretty busted. While we had a glimmer of hope that the batch-of-7 card draw would help mitigate the obvious problem of a player being able to draw so many cards immediately (like Yawgmoth’s Bargain, unlike Necropotence), it simply didn’t. Griselbrand’s Lifelink ability, allowing you more resources to draw cards with, coupled with being a creature and therefore easier to get into play (not to mention repeatedly) for far less than his mana cost, led to quite degenerate game states.

    Source: Official site, June 19, 2012

    Karakas
    Quote from Genomancer »
    I think it's sufficiently obvious that without errata, Karakas is extremely overpowered in EDH because of its interdicting effect on opposing generals.

    We decided that EDH would be better served without format-specific errata; they make the format harder to learn and play, and the gains are minimal. Further, having some cards errata'd leads to the argument that other "borderlne" cards can be fixed via errata, and how/when to do so is an ugly, poorly defined problem.

    Karakas was an unfortunate casualty of that decision, but its loss is acceptable. While it was fun, and useful, it is not pivotal to the format.

    Source: Official site, September 23, 2008 (Post #3)

    Kokusho, the Evening Star (Originally banned on February 29, 2008, it was unbanned in the 99 September 2012, fully unbanned September 2014)
    Quote from RobRoy (ban announcement) »
    [Kokusho] was less of a slam-dunk, as there was some discussion that with [Recurring Nightmare] gone it was at a tolerable power level. However, even without Recur, the first time Kokusho goes to the graveyard represents a twenty point life swing in a four-player game, and there are many, many ways to get multiple uses out of him. Too many games were being swung by Kokusho, and he was far too often an automatic tutor target. In the end we decided that his power level in EDH is too far above both what his mana cost would indicate and his power level in normal games of Magic, and so he is getting banned as well.

    Source: Official site, February 28, 2008
    Quote from Sheldon (unban announcement) »
    It's appropriate that Kokusho comes off at the same time as Prime Time goes on, as Kokusho was originally banned along the same lines. His presence had a similar warping effect on the format in the early days, with too many decks reusing the Dragon over and over (even if it didn't start in their deck!). However, in the intervening time, graveyard hate has become stronger and the overall level of creature power has risen to the point where we're comfortable - moreso after some testing - that it won't have the same impact.

    He remains banned as a Commander because the mechanics of being a Commander allow him to circumvent the best method of dealing with him - the aforementioned graveyard hate. Getting him into exile as a creature is the end of it. As a Commander, it's license to start again.

    Source: Official site, September 18, 2012

    Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    Quote from Sheldon »
    We had hopes for Leovold and gave him every opportunity to prove that he would be strong but safe in the format. He simply wasn’t. Leovold violates the tenet of creating undesirable game states by easily locking other players out of the game. We prefer to encourage situations in which everyone gets to play, and it’s too easy for Leovold to create the opposite, even unintentionally.

    Source: Official site, April 24, 2017

    Library of Alexandria
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Despite a great deal of discussion mostly I believe attributed to the idea that it will be available online Library of Alexandria isn't getting unbanned any time soon either. Its combined power level (which is extreme) and cost (48 auctions this week average $165.11; SCG $174.99 for SP) make it bad for the format.

    Source: Star City Games, December 15, 2010
    Quote from papa_funk »

    LoA is a stupidly powerful card. That is not under debate. It might not be broken in the format. *Might* (frankly, the couple people who have tried it out think it probably is). Even if it isn't, it's still going to go into the vast majority of decks. And there's no card that comes close to doing what it does.

    Which means that your average Commander table is going that have a lot of LoAs in play. Seeing an expensive card every once in a while is fine ("neat, you can play old cards"). Seeing an expensive card all the time is not ("that's not the format for me, I need the expensive cards to get in"). That perception is why Library is banned, along with Moxes and Lotus. The other expensive cards are either niche-y, not all that broken, or easily replaced without losing much, if any, power, so they don't represent that kind of barrier.

    Source: Official Site, October 2, 2012

    Limited Resources (June 4, 2008)
    Quote from Genomancer »
    With near-universal approval among the playerbase, and unanimous approval within the EDH rules folks, Limited Resources is getting the axe immediately.

    Source: Official site, June 4, 2008

    Lion's Eye Diamond (Originally banned September 1, 2008, unbanned as of September 20, 2011)
    Quote from Genomancer (ban announcement) »
    While not as problematic as hulk, neither of these is nearly as big of a loss for casual players. Many other two-card combos fall within the realm of "fair game", but the LED/Salvagers and Grindstone/Painters Servant combos are made up of cheap components which are easy to tutor up and quick to hit play. Because they come down so soon, they can be online before opponents can be expected to have disruption available... and make up the top tier of combo options.

    While we don't want to make the banned list longer than necessary, these were felt to be acceptable additions. The complementary combo parts (Salvagers and Painters Servant) were felt to have more "legitimate EDH uses."

    Source: Official site, September 1, 2008
    Quote from Genomancer (unban announcement) »
    Unbanning Lion's Eye Diamond is also likely to cause some hue and cry. There is a small but vocal segment of the commander player base who say that all fast mana like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt should be banned to balance the format... a complaint which rather misses the point. Our aim is not to make commander an unbreakable tournament format... it continues to be (and hopefully always will be) chock full of crazy powerful plays which you, the players, are trusted to explore rather than exploit. The rules page and list of unwelcome cards is there to help players avoid *accidentally* ruining games... and LED's presence on the list wasn't accomplishing that.

    LED was originally banned as an example of a two-card infinite mana combo (with Auriok Salvagers), but like Worldgorger Dragon its presence on the list is increasingly incongruous. There are many two-card combos which actually kill multiple players in a single turn, and most players new to the format don't see LED and think "Ah, infinite mana combos are kind scummy." Additionally, there are interesting ways to use LED and, consistent with our philosophy on blacklisting cards, most of the boring uses of LED are easy to distinguish from its interesting applications. It enables commanders late in the game, and expensive commanders in particular because they tend to be played later when hands are smaller.

    One possible source of problems with LED is its synergy with various tutors, which may be a good or bad thing. As with any change to the list, we'll keep a weather eye out and if it turns out to be a significant force for degeneracy or repetitive games, we have no problems admitting we're wrong and sending it back into exile. Honestly, we don't think taking it off the list will have much impact other than makes the list one card shorter.

    Soure: Official site, September 20, 2011

    Metalworker (Banned March 2009, unbanned September 2014)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Cards that easily and cheaply produce great deals of mana are inherently dangerous to the health of the format. Metalworker is clearly one of those cards, and had to go.

    Source: Official site, March 20, 2009
    Quote from Papa Funk »
    We've been discussing the possibility of unbanning Metalworker for a while now. It's capable of making some truly ridiculous amounts of mana, and having 12+ mana available on turn 4 or 5 is not something that casual games should have to deal with. We like to encourage battlecruiser-style decks, but over the later stages of a game, where players have had a chance to build up to combat it. However, the all-in nature of Metalworker leaves it vulnerable to mass artifact removal, and when it isn't performing optimally it's a pretty weak card (though still part of several combo engines). Aside from Sharuum - a deck that can already be built to a competitive extreme - the decks that most look to use Metalworker already have a lot of disadvantages to overcome, so allowing them the occasional early explosion should be acceptable risk.

    Source: Official site, September 12, 2014

    Painter's Servant (December 20, 2009)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Painter’s Servant has been the fuel for unpleasant combos, most notably with Grindstone and Iona, Shield of Emeria. The latter two cards occupy some interesting design/deckbuilding space, so we’d like to see them in the format. Swapping Grindstone/Painter’s Servant seemed like a natural fit to bring back a decent card and get rid of the true offender.

    Source: Official site, December 3, 2009
    Quote from Sheldon »
    I've said before that [Ugin, the Spirit Dragon] probably provided the final nail in the coffin making sure that Painter's Servant never comes off the banned list. I have no reason to move off that stance.

    Source: Star City Games

    Panoptic Mirror
    Quote from obsidiandice »
    I'm pretty sure it was originally banned for its interaction with extra turn effects.

    More recently, Sheldon requested that people test it and see if it could be a fun card in circles not trying to abuse it. The general consensus was that it was even worse that people thought it would be, ruining games pretty much regardless of what was imprinted on it.

    Source: Official site, September 12, 2011
    Quote from Ban Ki-moon »
    Wrath every turn is about as stagnant as it gets. Draw spells on Panoptic Mirror are fun, Rite of Replication would be overpowered but kinda awesome, but any type of sweeper would blow.

    Source: Official site, March 6, 2012

    Primeval Titan (September 18, 2012)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    One of the concerns that we've had recently is the overrepresentation of heavy ramp strategies, to the point where it makes up a large proportion of the aggregate decks out there. While we think ramp should be good - this is battlecruiser Magic, after all - it's probably a little too prevalent and needs reining in a bit. With that in mind, we're banning the most egregious offender, Primeval Titan.

    This decision won't be universally popular. Primeval Titan is dripping with awesomeness, and we ourselves are big fans of the card. But its ubiquity and effect on games couldn't be ignored and sad though we are to see it go, we think it will make for a more interesting and diverse format.

    Source: Official site, September 18, 2012

    Prophet of Kruphix January 18, 2016)
    Quote from papa_funk »
    This was challenging. Prophet is not a traditionally obvious problem card for Commander, so we chose to take a conservative approach and see if casual groups could adapt. In the past, we've seen unpopular cards generate a lot of outcry, but be handled reasonably well. Powerful cards existing is OK and exploring them responsibly is an essential part of Commander.

    This didn't happen with Prophet. Casual groups haven't been able to work around it and problematic play has not dropped off in hoped-for ways. Instead, the primary approach has been to steal it, clone it, run it yourself, or get run over. Ultimately, it seems the card is too perfect - it does everything U/G Commander players want to be doing and it does it in a way that makes counterplay difficult. With traditional boogeymen such as Consecrated Sphinx, you're forced to expend a lot of your mana to cast it and will have a challenge protecting it as the turn goes around the table. With Prophet, it has virtual protection built in, negating that disadvantage almost immediately.

    Prophet becomes only the second multicolored card on the banlist (after the structurally-problematic Coalition Victory). It's telling just how pervasive Prophet is despite such a restriction. Yes, U/G is the most popular color combination in Commander, but we've reached the point where Prophet is driving U/G deck choice, rather than vice-versa. That's centralizing in ways we can't ignore, so it's time for Prophet to take a break.

    Source: Official site, January 18, 2016

    Protean Hulk (September 1, 2008)
    Quote from Genomancer »
    This one really hurt, and I expect a lot of playgroups will still allow the Hulk to see play in games between trusted friends. Hulk is one of the most prototypical EDH cards... high cost for a huge effect, which is well suited to the highlander nature of the format. Unfortunately, it's proven too good. It's a one-card combo which is too easy to tutor up, and once it resolves there are several ways to kill every opponent, instantly. Hulk combo has cropped up multiple times, in different places, and has been the most problematic element in competitive environments.

    The key here is that the kinds of cards required to answer Protean Hulk combo (cheap permission, hand disruption, or RFG-creature removal) aren't the kinds of cards we feel people should have to fill their EDH decks with. As such, the hulk needed to go.

    Source: September 1, 2008
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Quote from cryogen »
    Quote from Sheldon »
    A while back, we did some local (highly unscientific) testing with a few of us regulars simply adding Protean Hulk to our green decks. The agreement was that we would not add any other cards or modify the deck in any other way--just to see what would happen if it were slipped in (and most of us play tutor-free). The results (again, highly unscientific) were unanimous: keep it banned. Whether it was that the decks were already designed to do what PH simply did more of (like decks with black and reanimation and/or with white and Karmic Guide, Reveillark, or Saffi Eriksdottir, it was clear that PH broke games by its mere presence.

    Is "we" your local group or is it each local group for the RC?

    Local Armada Games group.

    Quote from papa_funk »
    That quote is like 8 years old at this point, and pretty outdated. Hulk was a problem everywhere, so we banned it.

    When we revamped the criteria and pulled off Staff and Worldgorger, I advocated for pulling Hulk off too. We tested it in a lot of groups and the results were pretty universal - it made casual games miserable, even when folks weren't trying to abuse it. Which is sad, because it's a cool card.

    Quote from cryogen »

    Sheldon, out of curiosity, what sorts of feedback did you get from Hulk? Were there particular interactions that people cited? Was it an overall too-good toolbox card?
    Quote from Sheldon »

    Yeah, green has so many great utility creatures, but it wasn't necessarily the utility, but the ability to go with other colors. We found it worse in the white decks, since Karmic Guide, Saffi, and Reveillark already provide a strong base for recursion. It just became too much for free, especially with all the ways there are to recur the Hulk.

    Quote from Sheldon »
    [W]e feel as though it’s time to let Protean Hulk off the leash. A number of factors led to this decision. Support within the community has been tilting toward Protean Hulk for quite some time. Inside the Rules Committee, we have been leaning in that direction for a while as well, but didn’t have enough of a consensus. Now we do. We acknowledge that the card will be strong, but are of the opinion that it won’t be the centralizing factor it once would have been. Back when Protean Hulk was banned, both creatures and graveyard control were nowhere near as strong as they are today. We know combo possibilities exist with the card, but they need to be specifically built around, so to us it becomes a great value card instead of a dangerous combo piece in casual environments. We suspect that Protean Hulk will be much like Kokusho, the Evening Star when it was unbanned: powerful but not broken in the current Commander landscape.

    Source: Official site, April 24, 2017

    Recurring Nightmare (February 29, 2008)
    Quote from RobRoy »
    This card is extremely powerful for its mana cost. It has a reusable effect that cannot be stopped with enchantment removal, and lets you abuse comes-into-play abilities repeatedly. More, if your graveyard is sufficiently stocked, it's entirely possible that once you draw Recur it is the only spell you'll want to play for the rest of the game. This makes for degenerate games, so we're giving it the axe.

    Source: Official site, February 28, 2008

    Riftsweeper (originally banned September 1, 2008, unbanned September 10, 2009)
    Quote from Genomancer »
    Card specific errata have proven to be a significant deterrent to adoption by new players. Since the rules are getting more complex in other ways, removing them is a positive for the format.

    Source: Official site, September 1, 2008

    (Author's input) Essentially, for those that may be unaware, before the Command Zone was an official game zone, Commanders were actually just in exile. This led to a quirky interaction with Riftsweeper where a player could actually tuck a General with Riftsweeper's ETB ability. As this was obviously an unintended interaction due to the unique rules of the format, Riftsweeper got the axe, until....
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Riftsweeper is unbanned due to it no longer interacting with Generals.

    Source: Official site, September 10, 2009

    (Author's input) There was a lot more to this announcement, but what it boils down to is that the Command Zone was created and since Riftsweeper no longer interacts with Generals who haven't been played yet, there's no need for him to be banned anymore.

    Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary (as a Commander only June 2010, fully banned September 2014)
    Quote from Sheldon »

    Unbanning Rofellos as a General was a year-long experiment that didn’t pan out. We had hoped it would lead to a spate of fun-and-full-of-fat decks, but that wasn’t the case.

    Source: Official site, June 18, 2010

    Shahrazad (September 20, 2011)
    Quote from Genomancer »
    Historically, the {W}{W} sorcery was allowed as an example of an interesting, crazy card. It provided a potent tool for aggressive decks such as white-weenie, but most importantly it highlighted the fact that the Commander games (and rules) can differ significantly from "tournament stable" formats.

    Unfortunately, Shahrazad was instead used almost exclusively to troll other players by forking it, recurring it, and otherwise drawing out the game in byzantine ways. While there are lots of cards which can be used to do the same thing, Shahrazad was only allowed because of a special exemption to the rules. Since one of our aims is to keep the rules lean, and this extra rule was a net negative for most groups, it has been removed. We don't think many tears will be spread for its loss but, as always, if your group doesn't mind the occasional subgame, feel free to keep playing it!

    Source: Official site, September 20, 2011

    Staff of Domination (Originally banned June 20, 2010, unbanned as of April 22, 2013)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    We’ve had our eyes on Staff of Domination for a long, long time, and were hoping that someone would find uses for it that didn’t include the term ‘degenerate.’ That hope proved fruitless. Strangely enough, it’s the first and cheapest activation that has proved the most troublesome.

    Official site, June 18, 2010
    Quote from obsidiandice »
    When Staff of Domination was banned, it was one of the most widespread and iconic combo cards in the format. Banning it sent a clear message that turn four wins weren't the gameplay we wanted to see. These days there are plenty of scarier combo cards out there, and Staff of Domination has a valid role as a cool utility card. Neither of these would be enough their own, but together they provide solid reasons to unban the do-anything stick. Please enjoy Staff of Domination responsibly.

    Source: Official site, April 22, 2013

    Sundering Titan (June 19, 2012)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Sundering Titan has long been a card on the edge. The decision to get rid of it came from the combination of two points. One, it simply created undesirable game states. It was too easily both intentionally abused and unintentionally game-warping, especially since its ability triggers on both entering and leaving the battlefield. Two, there has been a fair amount of community distaste for the card, and we agreed that the card overwhelmingly creates a negative experience for players. Listening to the ever-growing and ever more-involved community is important to us.

    Source: Official site, June 19, 2012

    Sway of the Stars
    Quote from obsidiandice »
    You could do some semi-degenerate stuff with this - suspend things with Jhoira, or Ghostway out your creatures at end of turn. However, I believe this card should be banned because of how stupid and unfun it is when you're *not* trying to break it. It basically reduces the game to a coin flip, restarting the game with seven life and no mulligans. I would counsel anyone considering unbanning this card to actually try playing against it and see if they have any fun.

    Source: Official site, April 20, 2012

    Sylvan Primordial (February 9, 2014)
    Quote from Genomancer »
    ... there is one card which has drawn an increasing amount of ire over the past year. We feel Sylvan Primordial is causing far more problems than its contributions justify, and that the format will be better off without it. It meets many of the heuristic markers for a banned card, insofar as it invalidates many other creatures as search targets and causes arguments about whether its use is degenerate or reasonable. It can be easily accelerated into on turn 4 or 5 (before players are expected to have extensive defenses or threats online), at which point it turns a reasonable ramp deck into uninteresting games.

    If the card was just a big ramp, or just utility destruction, or just spot land destruction, it would likely be fine but by combining both factors it becomes ubiquitous, frequently overwhelming, and repetitive. After some debate in previous seasons, the committee members all voted in favor of removing it from the format.

    Source: Official site, February 9, 2014

    Time Vault (December 21, 2008)
    Quote from Genomancer »
    This shouldn't surprise anyone. When Time Vault was unerrata'd to be Twiddle-effect friendly, it became one of the most ridiculous cards in the format. Plenty of community members have commented on how game-wrecking it is, and a little extra last minute testing at Worlds showed it's just as broken as expected.

    Source: Official site, December 21, 2008

    Tinker (March 20, 2009)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    The subject of much debate, this should come as no real surprise. We decided that the low cost ability of Tinker to get high cost artifacts (such as Sundering Titan, Mindslaver, or Darksteel Colossus) into play early in games and significantly impact their outcome easily warranted its banning.

    Source: Official site, March 20, 2009

    Tolarian Academy (June 20, 2010)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Tolarian Academy, while not quite as explosive as the Rofellos and Channel, fuels easy early-game super-production of mana.

    Source: Official site, June 18, 2010

    Trade Secrets (April 22, 2013)
    Quote from obsidiandice »
    Trade Secrets is much like Limited Resources in that has some issues in a multiplayer environment. It isn't a problem when one player draws four cards and another draws eight. Trade Secrets is a problem when both players decide to draw 80 cards and effectively turn a four-player game into a two-player game. It just doesn't add enough to the format to justify the games that it single-handedly ruins.

    Source: Official site, April 22, 2013

    Upheaval (?)
    Quote from papa_funk »
    Cast Upheaval. Float a bunch of mana. Use that mana to replay the things you just returned to your hand. Restart game with 3-4 mana in play plus a threat. Watch your opponents discard a bunch of cards at the end of their turn.

    The fact that it returns all those resources to your hand to be replayed makes it one of the more ridiculous cards ever printed.

    (And that's setting aside how annoying it is used as a game reset)

    Official forums, January 29 2013

    Quote from Sheldon »
    The major sin of Upheaval is the returning of the cards to hand, giving you the opportunity to play the stuff again. Obliterate *might* have stuff to cast, but it's not a given like with Upheaval. Additionally, we saw Upheaval actually warping the format, where there hasn't been such evidence with Obliterate--quite possibly, as a few folks have pointed out, because of the strength of Blue and the weakness of Red in the format.

    Official forums, June 7 2011


    Worldfire (September 18, 2012)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    This banning was largely expected. Though the card itself isn't overpowered, it does have unfortunate interactions with the format, namely that the Commander is available to be cast even after the spell has resolved, and our philosophy is to avoid cards like that. Since, outside of this one quirk, there aren't a lot of interesting applications to the card, we don't anticipate it'll be missed much.

    Source: Official site, September 18, 2012

    Worldgorger Dragon (Originally banned ?, unbanned June 17, 2011)
    Quote from Sheldon »
    We don't unban cards lightly, but it's time for Worldgorger Dragon to get out of the penalty box. It is no longer a particularly strong example of unwelcome, format-warping, combo-play style, but simply another infinite-combo piece. Those applications are narrow enough that it should not cause problems for social players, and the type of player who wants to play this kind of infinite combo isn't going to play a more fun deck because Worldgorger Dragon is available. Thus, since it's a goal to keep the list as short as possible and focused on more fun-oriented games, we believe it can come off the list.

    Source: Official site, June 14, 2011

    Yawgmoth's Bargain (?)
    (Official Explanation Pending)



    What happens when my general gets tucked?

    When a general gets "tucked" (put into your library due to any number of interactions or card effects), the optional replacement effect takes place. As a free action you may choose to instead place your general back into the Command Zone. Note that the player in control determines this, not the owner (so in the corner case scenario of a Player A having their turn controlled by Player B's Mindslaver, Player B can choose to keep Player A's general in the library in the event something like Terminus is cast).



    Can I run Extort cards in a mono-white/black deck?

    Yes, you can. Color identity is determined by the color of the card as well as the mana symbols in the rules text. The W/ on Extort cards is in the reminder text, so it does not count towards determining color identity.



    What happens when I exile someone's general face down?
    There used to be a rules requirement that you were obligated to return the general to the Command Zone as soon as it was revealed, but with the removal of the tuck rule this scenario became so unlikely to occur that the rule was removed altogether. To quote papa_funk_, "In the unlikely situation that you do find yourself with your opponent's commander face-down in exile under your control, the removal of the old mana production rule makes it clearly correct to play it and beat them down with it anyway."

    Source



    When is the ban list updated?

    At the end of 2012, the Rules Committee decided to change their announcement dates to coincide with Wizards set releases (and subsequent ban announcements). The Commander Ban List announcement is now the Monday after prerelease weekend.



    What goes on at the quarterly Rules Committee meetings?
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Meetings tend to last around 2 hours, they've gone as many as 4 (assuming you don't count the time that we once talked about stuff nearly the whole time while Scott and Toby were visiting). There are indeed records of the meetings, which are recorded by the forum in which we have them. They're extremely informal. The order in which we talk about stuff goes according to mood or if someone feels strongly about a particular topic--or it has bearing on another topic. "We can't talk about that until we talk about this" has happened. If there are rules/topics to talk about, we generally discuss them before individual cards. When it comes to potential bannings, someone (generally me, but not always) opens up with something like "Okay, what cards do we want to talk about?" Sometimes that leads to a bunch of discussion, sometimes it leads to no one having any cards of concern. When it leads to discussion, someone will at some point call for the vote (which I described in a SCG article a while back). There is no time set aside to discuss a watch list, since it doesn't exist. The unbanning exercise usually happens later in the meeting.

    The lack of formality works because we know each other so well, have been doing this together for quite some time (in the case of me and Gavin, nearly a decade), and most importantly, have a great deal of trust in each other. No one games the votes; I trust that what everyone says or votes regarding a card is their honest opinion. No one comes to the meeting hoping to forward a personal agenda over the group's goals. I imagine that's quite a rare thing.
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Quote from DigitalFire »

    Now to address the first thing you said: the RC claims they look at all of the cards each time to see if they can come off... but that had never happened until many people here, myself included, started making a fuss about Kokusho and then it came off. Then last year I made a big hullaballoo about Metalworker, no one agreed with me but Cryo liked my suggestion of putting it up to vote and went to work making that happen which was really great. Lo and behold, Metalworker had a low turn-out and got unbanned and suddenly everyone was like "yeah, I never thought it was that broken." I just have a feeling the next vote will roll around, Gifts will have a low turn-out, it'll get unbanned and then everyone will suddenly pretend like they were always on my side again lol.

    That's not quite right. We've never claimed that we look at all of the cards each time. Although sometimes we do it with more than one, each time we meet, we look at a SINGLE card and do the mental exercise of considering unbanning it (which doesn't count the running joke of Scott and me repeating "Recurring Nightmare???"). Yes, community voices can be a catalyst to us thinking about an things, although I'll caution you in thinking that the opinion of a vocal minority is the tipping point. If the next poll comes up and 100% of respondents say Balance should be unbanned, that thing is still staying on the list. We would definitely talk about it. Our discussion wouldn't be about the card, it would be wondering how everyone lost their mind at the same time.




    What is the official stance on gold border cards?
    Quote from Genomancer »

    They're disallowed by virtue of being illegal in Vintage... World Championship and Collector's edition cards aren't printed for playing with, so much as learning or collecting. Some groups may allow them, but most consider them somewhat rude, so best to ask around; they're really no better than proxies, and the collectable nature of the game is one of it's driving forces.

    Official forums, April 5 2007

    Quote from Matt Tabak via Tumblr »

    Q: Hoping you can settle a dispute over on the mtgcommander forums; there's a debate going on atm around gold bordered cards being legal/not legal in the format since the Comp Rules on define a "real" magic card as per it's dimensions and nothing else; can you real quick give a legal/not legal decision for gold borders in non-sanctioned Commander games?

    A: Gold-bordered cards don’t have a Magic back, if memory serves. That’s what would make them illegal, not their border color.

    (sorry for a lack of link - cryogen)

    Quote from papa_funk »

    [T]he default, as the post from Genomancer notes, is that gold-bordered cards are not legal due to the requirement of "Vintage-legal cards", which is defined in the MTR.

    They're certainly not legal in any sanctioned play (and yes, all sanctioned play is covered by the MTR - the cited reference to "competitive" is not to the REL, but the English meaning of the term - and 100% of MTR rules are in effect in all sanctioned events, despite claims here. It's been carefully constructed to work that way).

    In casual play, you can do whatever you want. Charizard is a legal card if you're willing to put in the time to make rules for it. As with Charizard, forcing it onto a playgroup without discussing it first is impolite and not supported by the RC.

    Official forums, June 6 2016

    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Commander Rulings FAQ
    (A huge thanks to d0su for creating this FAQ and previously maintaining it.)



    The Purpose of this FAQ

    This thread is meant to provide quick and reliable answers to the more common questions I see asked on this thread by providing an inventory of the Rules Committee's official (and sometimes unofficial) stances and rulings on various topics. Ideally, this will clear up some amount of confusion and cut down on the number of repeat threads and uninformed thread hijacks.

    If you do not agree with some of these rulings, this is not the place to debate them. I have tried to refrain from personal opinion here; I'm just reporting the facts.

    However, if you have pertinent or constructive discussion regarding this list, fee free to post. To those posting relevant rulings or information: please include a link! I could actually use a lot of help finding "official" references to some of this material, especially when it comes to the Ban List. It is also entirely possible (probable, even) that I made some errors while typing this up, so please point those out.



    The Official Commander Rules

    Detailed rules can be found here.
    1. Players must choose a legendary creature as the "Commander" for their deck.
    2. A card's color identity is its colour plus the color of any mana symbols in the card's rules text. A card's color identity is established before the game begins, and cannot be changed by game effects.
    3. Cards in a deck may not have any colors in their color identity which are not shared with the Commander of the deck. (The identity of each card in the deck must be a subset of the Commander's)
    4. A Commander deck must contain exactly 100 cards, including the Commander.
    5. With the exception of basic lands, no two cards in the deck may have the same english name. Some cards (e.g. Relentless Rats) may have rules text that overrides this restriction.
    6. Commander is played with Vintage legal cards, with some exceptions (see official ban list for complete list). Cards are legal as of their set's prerelease.
    7. Players begin the game with 40 life.
    8. Commanders begin the game in the Command Zone. While a Commander is in the Command Zone, it may be cast, subject to the normal timing restrictions for casting creatures. Its owner must pay 2 for each time it was previously cast from the command zone; this is an additional cost.
    9. If a Commander would be put into a library, hand, graveyard or exile from anywhere, its owner may choose to move it to the command zone instead.
    10. Being a Commander is not a characteristic [MTG CR109.3], it is a property of the card and tied directly to the physical card. As such, "Commander-ness" cannot be copied or overwritten by continuous effects. The card retains its "Commander-ness" through any status changes, and is still a Commander even when controlled by another player.
    11. If a player has been dealt 21 points of combat damage by a particular Commander during the game, that player loses a game.
    12. Commanders are subject to the Legend rule; a player cannot control more than one legend with the same name.
    13. Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire of Ulamog, Research, Ring of Ma'rûf) do not function in Commander without prior agreement on their scope from the playgroup.


    The Commander/EDH Format Philosophy
    Full discussion here

    Quote from Sheldon »
    The Banned List for Commander is designed not to balance competitive play, but to help shape in the minds of its fans the vision held by its founders and Rules Committee. That vision is to create variable, interactive, and epic multiplayer games where memories are made, to foster the social nature of the format, and to underscore that competition is not the format’s primary goal. This is summarized as “Create games that everyone will love to remember, not the ones you'd like to forget.”

    A player who wishes to break the format will find many tools available to them, and taking those tools away means they move onto the next tool. Taking sufficient cards away from them to achieve a semblance of balance simply removes many, many cards from the pool that casual players enjoy and diminishes the games the format is intended for. Instead, Commander seeks to shape the mindset of the game before players start building decks, pointing them in the direction of thinking socially before they choose their first card. Infusing the deck construction approach with these philosophies is important; we want a social environment where an individual doesn't want to (or, at very least, is discouraged from trying to) break the format.

    It is easier to build decks designed to maximize fun than it is to pull punches while playing the game. The Banned List is a part of defining that approach.

    The Banned List contains the worst of the offenders for games being played in the spirit described above, those which to us are obvious choices in steering the format towards the general style of games we’d like to promote. While we’ve tried to make it fairly objective, there will always be a measure of subjectivity since different people evaluate cards and their impacts differently. We’d like the Banned List to be as small as possible to make it easily understandable for the players, meaning we’re not going to ban every card that someone finds unpleasant to play against. It is not a problem that some cards are strong.

    There are several criteria which carry weight in Rules Committee discussions on individual cards:

    * Interacts Poorly With the Structure of Commander. Commander introduces specific structural differences to the game of Magic (notably singleton decks, color restrictions in deckbuilding, and the existence of a Commander). Magic cards not designed with Commander in mind sometimes interact with those elements in ways that change the effective functionality of the card. Cards that have moved too far (in a potentially problematic direction) from their original intent due to this mismatch are candidates for banning. This criterion also includes legendary creatures that are problematic if always available.

    * Creates Undesirable Game States. Losing is not an undesirable game state. However, a game in which one or more players, playing comparable casual decks, have minimal participation in the game is something which players should be steered away from. Warning signs include massive overall resource imbalance, early-game cards that lock players out, and cards with limited function other than to win the game out of nowhere.

    * Problematic Casual Omnipresence. Some cards are so powerful that they become must-includes in decks that can run them and have a strongly negative impact on the games in which they appear, even when not built to optimize their effect. This does not include cards which are part of a specifc two-card combination - there are too many of those available in the format to usefully preclude - but may include cards which have numerous combinations with other commonly-played cards.

    * Produces Too Much Mana Too Quickly. Commander is a format devoted to splashy spells and epic plays, but they need to happen at appropriate times. Some acceleration is acceptable, but plays which are epic on turn ten are undesirable on turn three, so we rein in cards capable of generating a lot of mana early given the correct circumstances.

    * Creates a Perceived High Barrier to Entry. Commander is a socially welcoming format with a vast cardpool. These two traits clash when it comes to certain early Magic cards, even if they would possibly be acceptable in their game play. It's not enough that the card is simply expensive. It must also be something that would be near-universally played if available and contribute to a perception that the format is only for the Vintage audience.

    Meeting one (or more) criteria on the banlist is not a guarantee of a ban. Some cards fit the description, but either aren't problematic enough to justify a ban, are largely eschewed by the casual community, or possess other redeeming factors. Cards are evaluated by their general use, not simply their worst-case scenario. Similar cards may have just enough difference to put them on opposite sides of the line.

    Additionally, other Commander styles (such as 1v1, Duel Commander, or more competitively-oriented groups) are not taken into consideration when evaluating how problematic a card is. Groups who seek a different experience are encouraged to discuss local changes to optimize their play experience. This Banned List is for players who are looking for the traditional Commander experience when they're not interacting with their local social groups.



    The Current Official Commander Ban List

    Most Recent Banlist Update Announcement



    The Official Banlist



    Miscellanous Quotes From the Rules Committee
    Quote from Sheldon »
    I covered our process in an article a few years back. The short version is that you pretty much have it. "Okay, who has cards they want to talk about?" starts it off. Then there's a discussion and a decision if we need to put a card to a vote (either to bring off or put on), with each member voting on a +/- scale of how strongly they believe the card needs to be (un)banned. If it exceeds a certain threshold, the card gets (un)banned. We individually bring cards based on what we read online, see and hear in person at events, and experience in our local groups. We're relatively conservative about movement on a card in either direction. We want there to be a pretty good reason to put a card on or take it off, partially because we want to make sure we do the right thing and partially because messaging of any change is always difficult. The idea of test banning/unbanning cards is something we believe would create far more problems than it would solve.

    Quote from Sheldon »
    The RC officially meets quarterly. In reality, we talk all the time. Scott, Toby, Gavin, and I are all close friends. Scott makes multiple trips a year to stay with me in Florida and Toby makes the same trip at least annually. Toby and Gavin are in fact cousins. We are all (or have been at one time, I suppose in my case now that I'm 2.5 years retired from judging) significant people associated with professional Magic, so there is still a great deal of crossfeed there. Gavin and Alex are long-time friends. That leaves Devon as the only one without personal relationships that started outside the RC, but then again, he's the new guy.

    I want to reiterate that there is no possible playtest data that we could reasonably gather and use. One, it would take an enormous amount of resources. Two, we don't think it's necessary. The format is more like an art form than a science problem. We are sculpting to our artistic vision. I know the metaphor breaks down at a certain point, but in the end, the idea is "here's what we've done, we hope you really like it."
    Quote from papa_funk »
    Way back in the early days, the idea of using the Legacy list as a baseline was floated a couple times, but quickly discarded. Taking inspiration from Legacy - arguably the format most antithetical to Commander - seems counterproductive. Any overlap is coincidental.
    Quote from papa_funk »
    I live 3000 miles from Armada. I think the closest non-Sheldon member is about 2000 miles away. We're very public about this and have said on multiple occasions that the RC are scattered around and don't share playgroups. And yet people who post to the most trafficked Commander board (and thus are in the top .0something1 percent of Commander players in terms of information exposure) don't know this simple well-publicized fact.

    Getting out information is much, much harder than people think.
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Quote from cryogen »
    You (and by you I mean the RC) always say that the forum users are not representative of players in general and that we are in the minority. So how do you get feedback from players enough that you feel confident you are speaking for the community? You've mentioned going to tournaments, but I feel that anyone invested enough to be in a tournament would also fit the forum-goer demographic.

    As well as multiple websites, podcasts, and blogs, we all also go to our LGS, and I get feedback from SCG articles. We draw info and impressions from many sources. "Speaking for the community" isn't really possible, since Commander players aren't one broad-scope, singly-minded community. We're pretty confident that we're speaking for the community who wants us to speak for them--the folks with whom our vision resonates. And we don't really speak *for* anyone; it's not like we're congressmen or anything. We've always been clear about "this is our vision, hope you follow along."
    Quote from papa_funk »
    Our general stance is "a few tutors is good for finding answers and interesting threats. Lots of tutors to ensure repetitive deck performance is missing the point."





    This is still a work in progress, and it will probably always be. However, if in the future you get the urge to make speculations regarding a certain Commander ruling, make sure to check this thread first! Someone may have already answered your question.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] The Top 50 List (Indefinite Hiatus)
    Noncreatures

    CARDS THAT USED TO BE ON THE LIST

    DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    1 Acquire
    1 Akroma's Vengeance
    1 Ambition's Cost
    1 Ashes to Ashes
    1 Banefire
    1 Beacon of Unrest
    1 Black Sun's Zenith
    1 Blatant Thievery
    1 Blind Obedience
    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    1 Boom // Bust
    1 Cabal Conditioning
    1 Celestial Colonnade
    1 Comet Storm
    1 Command Tower
    1 Commandeer
    1 Condemn
    1 Conflux
    1 Creeping Tar Pit
    1 Crime // Punishment
    1 Curse of the Swine
    1 Debtor's Knell
    1 Defense of the Heart
    1 Desertion
    1 Devastation
    1 Diabolic Tutor
    1 Dictate of Erebos
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1 Evacuation
    1 Eye of Ugin
    1 Fabricate
    1 Forbid
    1 Future Sight
    1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
    1 Gauntlet of Power
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Gratuitous Violence
    1 Grim Tutor
    1 Hinder
    1 Identity Crisis
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Lavaclaw Reaches
    1 Liliana Vess
    1 Mana Reflection
    1 Martial Coup
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Mimic Vat
    1 Mindslaver
    1 Miren, the Moaning Well
    1 Mishra's Factory
    1 Molten Disaster
    1 Mortify
    1 Mouth of Ronom
    1 Mutavault
    1 Mystifying Maze
    1 Nevinyrral's Disk
    1 Nim Deathmantle
    1 Oblivion Ring
    1 Omniscience
    1 Outpost Siege
    1 Oversold Cemetery
    1 Overwhelming Forces
    1 Petrified Field
    1 Praetor's Grasp
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Praetor's Counsel
    1 Price of Progress
    1 Profane Command
    1 Promise of Power
    1 Raging Ravine
    1 Recoup
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Reverse the Sands
    1 Rishadan Port
    1 Sacred Mesa
    1 Sarkhan Vol
    1 Sorin Markov
    1 Spell Crumple
    1 Spin Into Myth
    1 Spitting Image
    1 Starstorm
    1 Stirring Wildwood
    1 Sudden Spoiling
    1 Sunder
    1 Sunhome, Fortress of Legion
    1 Sword of Light and Shadow
    1 Syphon Mind
    1 Time Stop
    1 Time Stretch
    1 Time Warp
    1 Tower of the Magistrate
    1 Trading Post
    1 Unexpectedly Absent
    1 Utter End
    1 Vedalken Orrery
    1 Vicious Shadows
    1 Vernal Bloom
    1 Wake of Destruction
    1 Wildfire
    1 Wild Ricochet
    1 Windfall
    1 Word of Seizing

    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] The Top 50 List (Indefinite Hiatus)
    Creatures


    CARDS THAT USED TO BE ON THE LIST
    DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
    1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    1 Anarchist
    1 Angel of Despair
    1 Archon of Justice
    1 Avatar of Fury
    1 Avatar of Woe
    1 Azorius Guildmage
    1 Bane of the Living
    1 Bloodghast
    1 Bloodgift Demon
    1 Bogardan Hellkite
    1 Braids, Cabal Minion (Banned September 2014)
    1 Brutalizer Exarch
    1 Butcher of Malakir
    1 Chancellor of the Spires
    1 Darksteel Colossus
    1 Deadwood Treefolk
    1 Diluvian Primordial
    1 Dimir Doppelganger
    1 Dimir House Guard
    1 Dimir Infiltrator
    1 Divinity of Pride
    1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
    1 Dragon Mage
    1 Draining Whelk
    1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
    1 Dread
    1 Dwarven Blastminer (Dwarven Miner (Functional))
    1 Emeria Shepherd
    1 Eternal Dragon
    1 Farhaven Elf
    1 Felidar Sovereign
    1 Flameblast Dragon
    1 Genesis
    1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
    1 Greater Gargadon
    1 Hateflayer
    1 Havengul Lich
    1 Hellkite Charger
    1 Hellkite Overlord
    1 Hoarding Dragon
    1 Ingot Chewer
    1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
    1 It that Betrays
    1 Izzet Cronarch
    1 Junk Diver
    1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
    1 Kederekt Leviathan
    1 Knollspine Dragon
    1 Krosan Tusker
    1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest (banned)
    1 Lifeblood Hydra
    1 Lord of Extinction
    1 Magus of the Disk
    1 Magus of the Future
    1 Memnarch
    1 Mindless Automaton
    1 Mnemonic Wall
    1 Myojin of Night's Reach
    1 Necrotic Sliver
    1 Nezumi Graverobber
    1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
    1 Pentavus
    1 Pilgrim's Eye
    1 Prophet of Kruphix
    1 Rakka Mar
    1 Rampaging Baloths
    1 Reassembling Skeleton
    1 Regal Force
    1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary (banned Sep 2014)
    1 Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
    1 Sakashima's Student
    1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
    1 Shriekmaw
    1 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Soul of the Harvest
    1 Sovereigns of Lost Alara
    1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
    1 Sphinx of Uthuun
    1 Stonehewer Giant
    1 Stuffy Doll
    1 Sunblast Angel
    1 Sylvan Primordial (banned 2014)
    1 Taurean Mauler
    1 Thassa, God of the Sea
    1 Thraximundar
    1 Thunderfoot Baloth
    1 Twilight Shepard
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Vexing Shusher
    1 Vigor
    1 Wickerbough Elder
    1 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
    1 Yavimaya Elder
    1 Yeva, Nature's Herald
    1 Yosei, the Morning Star

    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] The Top 50 List (Indefinite Hiatus)
    DalkonCledwin ran the original top 50 list, Surging Chaos ran it for several years afterwards, finally the commander mods have taken over this resource to try to put it in a slightly different direction.

    The old thread can be found here:

    Active Nominations

    We will try to keep track of nominated cards here. Cards that have made it for the next nomination will be stored here when in the nominations week so everyone can see the cards that have already made it to week 2's voting.

    The following cards have been nominated and or received some support but have not received enough support to make it to week 2:



    The following cards have received enough support to make it to week 2:



    F.A.Q.




    Q: What makes _________ a good enough card to be on the list?
    A: We are looking for all around usefulness of cards. If a card is an amazing combo piece in a niche style of deck or way then it usually isn't something we want to consider. We want cards that belong in a large variety of decks. The cards that should make this list up should be very versatile and useful to a lot of decks. The goal of this list is not to provide players with the best cards for a particular deck, but to be a resource for players who are entering the format and trying to expand their collection.

    Q: How do I get a card not on here onto the list?
    A: This list is going to be periodically open to voting, so when we are taking nominations just bring the card up for consideration. Look at the nomination process in the week two process of the process explanation.

    Q: Is this list for 1v1 or multiplayer.
    A: It is for multiplayer EDH using the official ban list.

    Q: What about functional reprints of cards?
    A: All versions of the same card share only one slot.

    Q: Imperial Seal and Mana Drain are so expensive! Why are they on here?
    A: Because this list does not care about budget. This list is comprised of the best cards in a section and thus price should not be a factor in voting and selection.

    Q: __________ is such a savage piece of tech! Why isn't it there?
    A: This is a thread to showcase the best cards in EDH. Hidden gems and underplayed cards are still good, but that's not what this thread is about. Refer to the "Share Your Hidden Gems" thread for something like that.

    Q: ____________ just came out, but it's a really great card. When can I nominate it?
    A: Once a card has been out for a full set, you may nominate it. (For example, Terminus could not be added to the list until Return to Ravnica block began.)

    Q: Why are artifacts and colorless (Eldrazi) stuffed together?
    A: There is only but a small handful of colorless Eldrazi cards and not all of them see play in EDH necessarily, so making a list just for them is a bit redundant.

    Q: Where are all the color-fixing lands? They're absolute staples.
    A: There are only so many Land slots, so it comes down to how many should be dedicated solely to fixing mana. There is no debate that the ABUR cycle of duals, shocks, fetches, and all the other great lands that make it easier to get the color of mana you need, but there are also a lot of really good utility lands that do more than just make mana.

    Q: Why did this thread change to a voting process?
    A: We wanted to accurately give the user base a say in how this thread is represented. We felt that giving one user control of the thread gave certain bias results to the thread. It has nothing against who is running the thread, everyone has their own opinions and we felt that the best way to eliminate this was through means of voting. We wanted this thread to represent what the community felt were the best 50 cards for each section.

    Q: How long do polls go?
    A: Each poll will last 6 days from when it is opened. The poll will never change before the old poll expires so as long as the poll is open you will still have time to cast your vote. If we made polls last 7 days however we would have to constantly change the day that we update the polls so instead we gave ourselves some time to get them changed.

    Q: When will polls change?
    A: Our current intention is to change polls on Mondays. Please give us some leeway on this but that is our goal.

    Q: The voting process takes forever. Why don't we speed this up?
    A: We realize that the voting will take some time to loop through things. Early on we might expect more changes due to the change in how this thread is run however in the long run we don't expect to be encountering many changes once things sort of even out a little more. We realize this will make it feel a little sluggish early on but we felt it was still the better way to run things.


    Voting System


    Well, first of all, we have a new system for how the list changes. We wanted to implement a system where the person running this page essentially just collects the poll info and makes the changes to the page. The user base will be the ones to decide what will be on here. Each section will receive a three week process as outlined below. We will announce at the beginning of the week what will be happening for the week and we will also change the name of the thread to reflect what we are doing for the week so you don't have to hunt down out explanations so long as you understand the process.

    1. WEEK 1: We will vote for the cards you feel do not NOT belong on the current list. In the comments you may argue your reasons behind why it doesn't belong. We would like to encourage people to actually hold their votes and discuss (civilly) what they think the worst cards of a category are. The three cards that are voted as the worst cards of the section this week will be the cards that are voted against our nominations in Week 2's vote.
    2. We will take nominations for cards that people think should make the list. Since there are a lot of cards to be considered we will be doing this one section at a time.
      • Each user may nominate OR support up to two nominations once per week of nominations. Feel free to discuss why you feel that a card should or shouldn't make nomination, but please be clear if you are nominating or supporting a nomination. There is no negative support against a nomination, the nominated cards are just the list of cards we will be voting on in stage two to determine the best candidate to be added to the list.
      • Nominating cards is how we decide what cards to vote on. To make it to voting, a nomination only needs to be nominated by a user and have two support votes from other users. We will vote later which of the nominations is best in week two.
      • The nomination process being mostly just a discussion process will be taking part as we vote on something else. One of the moderators will inform everyone of what will be happening for the week when the polls change so we will inform you as to what we are doing for that week. Please refrain from nominating cards if we are not in a week of nominations and stay within the scope of what we are accepting nominations for. Nominations outside of this week or that don't fit the scope of what nominations are being accepted for may be taken as off-topic spam.

    3. WEEK 2: The nominated cards from Week One will be voted against the worst cards of the section we chose in Week One. The three most voted cards will either remain on the list or replace the lowest voted cards, as applicable.
    4. Cards that have been removed from the list and nominations that fail to make it into the list may be nominated again when we make it back to the nominations phase for their appropriate section.
    Nomination / Support Examples

    Quote from ISBPathfinder »
    I would like to nominate Necropotence for the black noncreature list. The reasons I feel that it should be added to the list are:

    1) It generates essentially immediate value if it is not counterspelled.
    2) It can draw tons of cards and dig you to what you need to answer. Even when used somewhat fairly it still draws 3-5 cards a turn usually.
    3) Even when it does get answered you can generally pull another hand off of it in response to it being answered.


    Quote from cryogen »
    Quote from ISBPathfinder »
    I would like to nominate Necropotence for the black noncreature list. The reasons I feel that it should be added to the list are:

    1) It generates essentially immediate value if it is not counterspelled.
    2) It can draw tons of cards and dig you to what you need to answer. Even when used somewhat fairly it still draws 3-5 cards a turn usually.
    3) Even when it does get answered you can generally pull another hand off of it in response to it being answered.


    I support this nomination.

    I believe he has a lot of very good points here. Also to add:

    ....bleh

    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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