Kitchen Finks is not a card that excites me but this is about as basic as Abzan Aggro/Midrange gets. I'm not sure you still want a full play set of Path to Exile if you're also going to play that many Assassin's Trophy, but I do like that combo of spells for my removal suite. I'm also certain Loxodon Hierarch is supposed to be Loxodon Smiter instead. Loxodon Hierarch doesn't really make sense to me. There are way better 4-cmc spells we could play while staying aggressive. That said, playing 1 or 2 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I just don't think it's a card that normally sees play in this shell.
Kitchen Finks is not a card that excites me but this is about as basic as Abzan Aggro/Midrange gets. I'm not sure you still want a full play set of Path to Exile if you're also going to play that many Assassin's Trophy, but I do like that combo of spells for my removal suite. I'm also certain Loxodon Hierarch is supposed to be Loxodon Smiter instead. Loxodon Hierarch doesn't really make sense to me. There are way better 4-cmc spells we could play while staying aggressive. That said, playing 1 or 2 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I just don't think it's a card that normally sees play in this shell.
Yes those are Loxodon Smiters. I'm the one who played that so I can confirm. So the reason I ran finks was because I came to play the event to beat every burn and ur birds deck but ended up only facing 1 UR birds. I am probably going to play a very similar list in GP Toronto tomorrow. Someone mentioned using knights instead of loxodons and that is something to consider right now it really does depend on the amount of GBx and Death shadow decks, right now knight might be worth it and ive been testing with it myself.
Regarding the Trophy those are excellent, in my opinion since we are already playing path giving your opponent a basic of trophy is not much of a downside, i was able to remove planeswalkers and blood moons without worrying about the cmc(if it was abrupt decay) basically it gives you a catch all which in find extremely good to have. Would i consider playing less? I might go down to 2 I had cases where I would have removal but nothing to do with it and would have liked a threat instead.
I could see removing a finks but I dont know if i would remove all of them at the moment as the burn matchup becomes a buy with them. There could be an argument to playing knight of autumn instead but the resilient part of the threat is also nice to have.
Overall the deck matches up really nicely in the meta right now. Basically whenever I expect burn style decks to be popular i start sleeving this deck up.
I've played a few versions of this deck before with varying success here are some pointers I have, however these are personal you can disagree and I wont take it badly
1. Play 4 arbiters or none. The card is a powerhouse in the deck it is what makes the deck actually so my suggestion to you is play 4 or none.
2. Consider playing Collected Company/Aether Vial unfortunatly without a vial or company the deck deploys its threats too slowly and in a much too linear of a fashion.
3. Dont play fetches. I know its tempting but its just not what the deck does well.
4. Instead of field of Ruin put a tec edge or another land altogether.
5. Put the thrun into the sideboard and consider putting Shalai, Voice of Plenty my buddy played with this card once and it ended up being a total powerhouse im building a hatebear deck with 2 of those in there now.
6. Do not play Gideon of the Trials its too much of a control card.
7. Find space for some Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (I would move the Teegs to the board and remove and the Qasali Ambushers)
8. Maybe add a Brimaz, King of Oreskos Card is a house and works super well with wilt-leaf.
9. Try to add Tireless Tracker or Ramunap Excavator(im testing this one myself) just more card advantage.
10. Go up on tickets and shocks instead of scattered groves use more Horizon canopy as they can make mana but also be sac'd for card draw
11. Im not sure how i feel about Mindcensor and Thalia they can be good but can also be a total miss.
That's just my 5c like I said its just my personal opinion so feel free to go any way you prefer.
The above list needs more work than I care to do right now so it's shelved until the future. In the meantime I'm trying to streamline my deck to make it perform better by cutting the situational cards and focusing more on the cards that have tested well against the most variety of decks. This is what I've got so far, anybody have any thoughts on how to make it better?
I'm thinking of getting a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar to replace Thalia, Mindcensor, Thrun, or a Teeg since they're the lowest performing cards in the deck so far.
Ill be honest i think you are trying to do too much. There are too many 1 ofs and 2 ofs it feels like you are not sure what you want to do with the deck.
I honestly think that if thats the kind of deck you want to play just play Bant Company(retreat version) it plays very much like what you are trying to do.
Bant has alot of the same cards you are playing above and is quite consistant.
Hello everyone, been playing zoo for some time with some success with this list its a list that lets you grind a little better and just makes your deck more interactive.
For anyone wondering why theres 2 seal of fire, well they have been performing really well for me.
I have been playing the above list for some time and I am still torn if I want to play Vial or collected company. I used to play coco and it was decent but I had more mana problems.
I lost to the tempo deck in top 8 lost once due to mull to 4 and second time just dis not draw a land on time or a path for the giant scooze.
Also the surgical in the board are the best Sideboard decision ever pretty much at least for me.
The additional mana dorks are there for both gavony and thalia which so far has been extremely good to me. I have played it on turn 2 on a fee occasions and it is backbreaking. Yes she dies to bolt but they must have the bolt which they wont always have.
I've also gotten some feedback from opponents and it messes up their mana base and blocker situation quite abit.
Havent Posted in a while but figured i will. Im going to an event tomorrow and going to try a different approach. I'll post the results afterwards. The decklist is not yet final but it will be something like this:
I am unsure about the Thalia'a and Commands at the moment they are the flex cards. Still finishing up the board, but so far the additions pack quite the punch.
I know what your thinking, fetches and arbiters in the same deck? Yea. It works out well since we can decide when the land fetch hate comes in. This allows you to fetch early and not get trapped by your own arbiters. I am somewhat unsure about the sideboard and the 1 of Mindcensor in the main. I do want to add a Sorin, Solemn Visitor in the side for the burn matchup.
Last weeks FNM went relatively well. Played against Jund, Twin, Delver, Junk ended up going 3-1 heres the breakdown:
Match 1 : Jund - Win
Game 1: I played a turn 2 arbiter and strip mined my opponents black source he did not see another black source for the rest of the game due to extra arbiters.
Game 2: Back and forth but my removal kept his threats from getting out of hand and land destruction kept his raging ravines from becoming threats, also Lingering souls was amazing in this matchup the value was real.
I like jund as a deck but I think my opponent was being greedy with his keeps.
Match 2: UR twin - Win
Game 1: I played a substatial number of threats such as Voice and had the removal for my opponents attempt at twin.
Game 2: Opened a hand with great answers but did not get much mana the game ended quickly from that point.
Game 3: Turn 2 choke, turn 3 siege rhino, turn 4 thoughtseize a twin piece play arbiter and ghost quarter land. My opponent conceded at this point.
Thoughtseize makes this matchup really easy.
Match 3: UWR Delver - Lost
Game 1: Played a few threats but he had the removal for each and ended up getting lands instead of threats.
Game 2: Saw 2 smiters and 1 Hierarch, the rest were lands untill the game ended.
I think I was punished by the mana base, or variance or just the shuffling could not evaluate the matchup properly.
Match 4: Junk
Game 1: Played threats, he played threats, I had more threats and won.
Game 2: Turn 2 Brimaz with double exalted triggers kept attacking into his board and drew multiple copies of lingering souls.
Junk is a relatively easy or manageable matchup. I do not find myself losing this matchup.
Figured id give a quick update about the deck, ran it as junk 2 weeks ago ended up going 2-2 the matchups were alright but felt like it needed some work so im going to go with this version on friday and continue exploring junk(could swap back to gw if its just not worth it).
Mostly this is still under consideration. The pieces seem strong in a lot of match ups but the meta is too unknown to know if the cards I am playing are affective enough. I decided to try and play Kitchen Finks with all the attrition matchups and since that means more shocks are fine. Still split between Restoration Angel and Wilt-Leaf liege.
I may try that eventually, fell in love with Brimaz after i destroyed a delver player with a turn 2 Brimaz 2 games in a row. He couldn't compete with it (felt awesome). But thanks for the input.
Been a while since I posted but I do like the idea of switching to junk. Here's what I've decided to go with recently, I'll post results after this weekend.
Round 1: 1-0
Melira Pod
Fairly straight forward match he could not get passed any of the hate and the games ended rather easily.
Round 2: 2-0
Splinter Twin Tempo
This came down to me having the path when he attempted to combo into a Sword of War and Peace and attacking to which he had no answer for.
Round 3: 3-0
American Control
I ended up winning this match by getting 3 Ghost Quarter in game 2 which destroyed my opponents mana base and Mark of Asylum on game 3 did the work, at the end of the game he revealed 2 Anger of the gods and a bolt in hand.
Round 4: 4-0
American Splinter Twin
Completely Destroyed my opponents mana base game 2 he could not recover. Game 3 was a turn 2 GQ and thalia turn 3 to slow him down. Got him to tap out with a swing and played choke. He lost after that resolved.
Round 5: 4-1
RUG Splinter Twin
Game 1 he combod out with no resistance, game 2 I resolved multiple smiters and he was forced to throw his twin pieces under the bus. Game 3 came down to top decks I was at 5 he was at 6 , he top decked the goyf and I got a land, safe to say it ended the game right there.
Round 6: 5-1
Jund
This match up is one of my favorites as it can go either way, but the 3 Mirran Crusader typically cannot be beaten in this match up especially when there's a sword on them.
Round 7: 6-1
GW death and taxes
The most awkward mirror, ended up winning game 2 by destroying his field with engineered explosives and swinging for lethal. Game 3 Hushwing Gryff equipped with a sword of light and shadow and a Linvala in play made sure he could not do anything about the sword or the creature.
Round 8
UR Twin less Control
This was an intersting brew he used pestermites to make it appear as though it was a twin deck which caught off many by surprise including myself. Game 1 I did manage to overrun him with a stirring wildwood. Game 2 I got burned and game 3 he played perfectly by dropping a turn 3 blood moon to which I did not have an answer, sadly the answer came the turn before he bolted for the win.
I was hoping to face more Pod as there was so much of it at the event but alas it seems I got all of the control decks, still I'm satisfied with the results.
A little disappointing since I misplayed for the first loss and the second loss was a very close one, but all in all a good time and result. Let me know if you would like a breakdown of the matches or anything as such.
Ive found myself never needing relic to be honest and might replace that with a Thrun but any suggestions or ideas/discussion are welcome.
Yes those are Loxodon Smiters. I'm the one who played that so I can confirm. So the reason I ran finks was because I came to play the event to beat every burn and ur birds deck but ended up only facing 1 UR birds. I am probably going to play a very similar list in GP Toronto tomorrow. Someone mentioned using knights instead of loxodons and that is something to consider right now it really does depend on the amount of GBx and Death shadow decks, right now knight might be worth it and ive been testing with it myself.
Regarding the Trophy those are excellent, in my opinion since we are already playing path giving your opponent a basic of trophy is not much of a downside, i was able to remove planeswalkers and blood moons without worrying about the cmc(if it was abrupt decay) basically it gives you a catch all which in find extremely good to have. Would i consider playing less? I might go down to 2 I had cases where I would have removal but nothing to do with it and would have liked a threat instead.
I could see removing a finks but I dont know if i would remove all of them at the moment as the burn matchup becomes a buy with them. There could be an argument to playing knight of autumn instead but the resilient part of the threat is also nice to have.
Overall the deck matches up really nicely in the meta right now. Basically whenever I expect burn style decks to be popular i start sleeving this deck up.
1. Play 4 arbiters or none. The card is a powerhouse in the deck it is what makes the deck actually so my suggestion to you is play 4 or none.
2. Consider playing Collected Company/Aether Vial unfortunatly without a vial or company the deck deploys its threats too slowly and in a much too linear of a fashion.
3. Dont play fetches. I know its tempting but its just not what the deck does well.
4. Instead of field of Ruin put a tec edge or another land altogether.
5. Put the thrun into the sideboard and consider putting Shalai, Voice of Plenty my buddy played with this card once and it ended up being a total powerhouse im building a hatebear deck with 2 of those in there now.
6. Do not play Gideon of the Trials its too much of a control card.
7. Find space for some Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (I would move the Teegs to the board and remove and the Qasali Ambushers)
8. Maybe add a Brimaz, King of Oreskos Card is a house and works super well with wilt-leaf.
9. Try to add Tireless Tracker or Ramunap Excavator(im testing this one myself) just more card advantage.
10. Go up on tickets and shocks instead of scattered groves use more Horizon canopy as they can make mana but also be sac'd for card draw
11. Im not sure how i feel about Mindcensor and Thalia they can be good but can also be a total miss.
That's just my 5c like I said its just my personal opinion so feel free to go any way you prefer.
I honestly think that if thats the kind of deck you want to play just play Bant Company(retreat version) it plays very much like what you are trying to do.
Bant has alot of the same cards you are playing above and is quite consistant.
For anyone wondering why theres 2 seal of fire, well they have been performing really well for me.
Creatures:
1 Birds of paradise
4 Noble hierarch
4 Wild nacatl
2 Qasali pridemage
2 Scavenging ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Voice of resurgence
4 Knight of the reliquary
3 Renegade rallier
Enchantments:
2 Seal of fire
Instants:
3 Lightning bolt
3 Path to exile
3 Collected company
4 Wooded foothills
4 Windswept heath
2 Stomping ground
1 Sacred foundry
1 Temple garden
3 Arid mesa
1 Horizon canopy
1 Stirring wildwood
1 Ghost quarter
1 Kessig wolf run
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Bonfire of the damned
3 Kitchen finks
2 Blood Moon
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Ancient grudge
2 Thalia, guardian of thraben
2 Aven mindcensor
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=109176
I have been playing the above list for some time and I am still torn if I want to play Vial or collected company. I used to play coco and it was decent but I had more mana problems.
I lost to the tempo deck in top 8 lost once due to mull to 4 and second time just dis not draw a land on time or a path for the giant scooze.
Also the surgical in the board are the best Sideboard decision ever pretty much at least for me.
4 noble hierarch
2 birds of paradise
4 leonin arbiter
4 voice of resurgence
3 Thalia guardian of thraben
3 Thalia ,heretiC cathar
4 loxodon smite
3 kitchen finks
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 wilt-leaf liege
4 path to exile
2 dromoka's command
Lands
4 temple garden
3 Razorverge Thicket
4 ghost quarter
2 gavony township
2 plains
2 forest
1 Okina, temple
3 horizon canopy
2 stirring wildwood
2 choke
2 scavenging ooze
3 surgical extraction
2 declaration in stone
1 thrun, the last troll
2 fracturing gust
Some cards missing I'll check when home.
The additional mana dorks are there for both gavony and thalia which so far has been extremely good to me. I have played it on turn 2 on a fee occasions and it is backbreaking. Yes she dies to bolt but they must have the bolt which they wont always have.
I've also gotten some feedback from opponents and it messes up their mana base and blocker situation quite abit.
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Voice of Resurgence
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Leonin Arbiter
3x Kitchen Finks
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x Reality Smasher
Instants:
4x Path to Exile
2x Dromoka's Command
3x Razorverge Thicket
4x Brushland
4x Ghost Quarter
3x Gavony Township
1x Horizon Canopy
2x Stirring Wildwood
3x Temple Garden
2x Forest
1x Plains
4x Stony Silence
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Mark of Asylum
I am unsure about the Thalia'a and Commands at the moment they are the flex cards. Still finishing up the board, but so far the additions pack quite the punch.
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
3x Voice of Resurgence
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging ooze
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Loxodon Smiter
2x Brimaz, King of oreskos
1x Aven Mindcensor
2x Wilt-Leaf Liege
3x Siege Rhino
Instants:
3x Path to Exile
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Lingering Souls
Lands:
3x Windswept Heath
3x Marsh Flats
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Godless Shrine
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Temple Garden
2x Stirrind Wildwood
2x Razorverge Thicket
2x Forest
2x plains
1x Swamp
4x Thoughtseize
2x Mirran Crusader
4x Thoughtseize
2x Choke
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Stony Silence
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Engineered Explosives
I know what your thinking, fetches and arbiters in the same deck? Yea. It works out well since we can decide when the land fetch hate comes in. This allows you to fetch early and not get trapped by your own arbiters. I am somewhat unsure about the sideboard and the 1 of Mindcensor in the main. I do want to add a Sorin, Solemn Visitor in the side for the burn matchup.
Last weeks FNM went relatively well. Played against Jund, Twin, Delver, Junk ended up going 3-1 heres the breakdown:
Match 1 : Jund - Win
Game 1: I played a turn 2 arbiter and strip mined my opponents black source he did not see another black source for the rest of the game due to extra arbiters.
Game 2: Back and forth but my removal kept his threats from getting out of hand and land destruction kept his raging ravines from becoming threats, also Lingering souls was amazing in this matchup the value was real.
I like jund as a deck but I think my opponent was being greedy with his keeps.
Match 2: UR twin - Win
Game 1: I played a substatial number of threats such as Voice and had the removal for my opponents attempt at twin.
Game 2: Opened a hand with great answers but did not get much mana the game ended quickly from that point.
Game 3: Turn 2 choke, turn 3 siege rhino, turn 4 thoughtseize a twin piece play arbiter and ghost quarter land. My opponent conceded at this point.
Thoughtseize makes this matchup really easy.
Match 3: UWR Delver - Lost
Game 1: Played a few threats but he had the removal for each and ended up getting lands instead of threats.
Game 2: Saw 2 smiters and 1 Hierarch, the rest were lands untill the game ended.
I think I was punished by the mana base, or variance or just the shuffling could not evaluate the matchup properly.
Match 4: Junk
Game 1: Played threats, he played threats, I had more threats and won.
Game 2: Turn 2 Brimaz with double exalted triggers kept attacking into his board and drew multiple copies of lingering souls.
Junk is a relatively easy or manageable matchup. I do not find myself losing this matchup.
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Leonin Arbiter
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Qasali Pridemage
3x Voice of Resurgence
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Kitchen Finks
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Anafenza, the foremost
3x Siege Rhino
3x Restoration Angel
Instants(6):
3x Path to Exile
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Isolated Chapel
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Woodland Cemetery
2x Temple Garden
3x Overgrown Tomb
3x Godless Shrine
1x Swamp
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Twilight Mire
1x Horizon Canopy
2x Choke
3x Thoughtseize
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Thrun, the last Troll
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Stony Silence
1x Fracturing Gust
2x Engineered Explosives
Mostly this is still under consideration. The pieces seem strong in a lot of match ups but the meta is too unknown to know if the cards I am playing are affective enough. I decided to try and play Kitchen Finks with all the attrition matchups and since that means more shocks are fine. Still split between Restoration Angel and Wilt-Leaf liege.
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Qasali Pridemage
3x Voice of Resurgence
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Loxodon Smiter
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3x Aven Mindcensor
3x Siege Rhino
Instants:
4x Path to Exile
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Tectonic Edge
2x Temple Garden
3x Razorverge Thicket
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Godless Shrine
1x Twilight Mire
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Forest
2x Plains
2x Choke
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Thrun, the last troll
1x Stony Silence
1x Mark of Asylum
1x Sunlance
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Fracturing Gust
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Still Unsure about the overgrown tomb to Godless Shrine ratio might switch it around to hit white more often. Also unsure of whether or not Fracturing Gust and sunlance is still needed with the abrupt decays.
Round 1: 1-0
Melira Pod
Fairly straight forward match he could not get passed any of the hate and the games ended rather easily.
Round 2: 2-0
Splinter Twin Tempo
This came down to me having the path when he attempted to combo into a Sword of War and Peace and attacking to which he had no answer for.
Round 3: 3-0
American Control
I ended up winning this match by getting 3 Ghost Quarter in game 2 which destroyed my opponents mana base and Mark of Asylum on game 3 did the work, at the end of the game he revealed 2 Anger of the gods and a bolt in hand.
Round 4: 4-0
American Splinter Twin
Completely Destroyed my opponents mana base game 2 he could not recover. Game 3 was a turn 2 GQ and thalia turn 3 to slow him down. Got him to tap out with a swing and played choke. He lost after that resolved.
Round 5: 4-1
RUG Splinter Twin
Game 1 he combod out with no resistance, game 2 I resolved multiple smiters and he was forced to throw his twin pieces under the bus. Game 3 came down to top decks I was at 5 he was at 6 , he top decked the goyf and I got a land, safe to say it ended the game right there.
Round 6: 5-1
Jund
This match up is one of my favorites as it can go either way, but the 3 Mirran Crusader typically cannot be beaten in this match up especially when there's a sword on them.
Round 7: 6-1
GW death and taxes
The most awkward mirror, ended up winning game 2 by destroying his field with engineered explosives and swinging for lethal. Game 3 Hushwing Gryff equipped with a sword of light and shadow and a Linvala in play made sure he could not do anything about the sword or the creature.
Round 8
UR Twin less Control
This was an intersting brew he used pestermites to make it appear as though it was a twin deck which caught off many by surprise including myself. Game 1 I did manage to overrun him with a stirring wildwood. Game 2 I got burned and game 3 he played perfectly by dropping a turn 3 blood moon to which I did not have an answer, sadly the answer came the turn before he bolted for the win.
I was hoping to face more Pod as there was so much of it at the event but alas it seems I got all of the control decks, still I'm satisfied with the results.
Ended up with a record of 6-2 14th place.
The Decklist:
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Voice of Resurgence
2x Qasali Pridemage
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Gaddock Teeg
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Mirran Crusader
3x Aven Mindcensor
2x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2x Sword of War and Peace
Instants and Sorceries:
4x Path to Exile
Lands:
4x Razorverge Thicket
4x Temple Garden
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Gavony Township
2x Stirring Wildwood
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Brushland
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Stony Silence
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Hushwing Gryff
1x Torpor Orb
2x Choke
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Worship
1x Mark of Asylum
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Engineered Explosives
A little disappointing since I misplayed for the first loss and the second loss was a very close one, but all in all a good time and result. Let me know if you would like a breakdown of the matches or anything as such.
Ive found myself never needing relic to be honest and might replace that with a Thrun but any suggestions or ideas/discussion are welcome.