Hi! So say my opponent is at 2 life. On the field he has a Dark Confidant and an Umezawa's Jitte with two counters. Now say he reveals a Stoneforge Mystic. He says he can trigger the Jitte to gain life in response to the reveal, because revealing the card is part of the trigger. I say that he can only do it before the reveal, because the reveal is part of the resolution, like Ponder or Jace, the Mind Sculptor's second ability.
If I'm right, he loses 2 life and I win. If he's right, he is able to swing for 3 and he wins.
Well there really is no proper replacement for Force of Will honestly. This deck loves to tap out on it's turn and draw into free counters on their turn, but there are some budget options. Spell Pierce and Counterspell are both great, but if you run Mutavault or Mishra's Factory then Counterspell gets a little worse. There's nothing wrong with Mana Leak or Spell Snare either. My suggestion would be to run a variety of counters and then maybe 1 or 2 copies of Disrupting Shoal. Good luck.
Thanks for the tips! Yea, I'm running Faerie Conclave since I don't have any Mutavaults at the moment. Does Familiar's Ruse have any merit, though, with the ability to to return Spellstutter and Ninjas back to my hand for reuse?
Hey all, I'm on a bit of a budget until I get a more stable income to purchase the more money cards like Force of Will. In the meantime, what should I replace it with in my countersuite? I've got playsets of Daze and Spellstutter Sprite, but what about the remaining 4? I've got a playset of Counterspell, but maybe Familiar's Ruse or Spell Snare would do better? Although, I'd rather not pay for Spell Snare at them moment.
Jeez, so many choices! It's like trying to decide what jelly to get for your peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Jelly, jam, or marmalade? Grape, strawberry, raspberry, or blackberry? Welch's or Smucker's? Is this the real life, or is it just fantasy? I DON'T KNOW ANYMORE!!
Ok, rant over ...
First change is - Tormented Soul. He doesn't trigger Prowl or Sygg by himself, and can't chump.
For one I would stay away from cards like Ghostform and Distortion Strike that don't accomplish much and also don't cantrip. You don't want to draw a situational card that you can't trade away, and you want as much card advantage as possible.
Maybe more equipment for your creatures? You need some way to buff your creatures so they can win.
So, Opposition and Vela are awesome, but I don't want to invest even a couple of dollars for them. But
+ Keep Watch, + Coastal Piracy, + Guile, and + Bonesplitter for pump.
Day of the Dragons awesome, but somewhat situational. Also, I don't have a way to kill it to get my stuff back. But I guess other people would want to do that anyways ... I'll keep it in the back of my head as an option because it can potentially knock a player out.
First of all, thanks for all the fantastic feedback, man, I greatly appreciate it! You're right, though, that my current wincon is a bit weak, basically swinging with evasive creatures, only 4 of which are fatties, + 2 fatty ninjas. Some help in that field is Infathom Witch, Oona's Blackguard, and Stinkdrinker Bandit pumping my weanies. Also added Bonesplitter. Quietus Spike helps make life-totals a little more manageable. I can make more pumpable weanies via Oona, Queen of the Fae and Notorious Throng.
As for alt wins, I currently only run two. Oona is one, since she can start decking one person while sending flyers at the other. Dunno that decking would really work, since there's 100 cards to get through. The other is Phage the Untouchable, who is honestly one of my "I'm running this JUST BECAUSE, OK?!" cards. I can make her unblockable by several means though, so that's cool. But really, those are my only "deal with this or else" cards.
counterspells/removal seem to be the options for ub. I like running at least 3-4 spot removal and 1 or 2 perm based spot removal (think visara the dreadful or gravepact), and at least 1 or 2 sweeps (for this deck, I would think of cyclonic rift). I say a bounce type of card because it follows your theme, at least I think so. also, 3 counterspells is not enough in my opinion. 1/11 chance to pull a counter. if you're going to run something, I'd run at least 4-5 of a theme. any less and you'll probably not get them as much as you'd like.
have some bleed effects (painful quandary perhaps? anything to trigger his ability.
Brilliant. + Painful Quandary, + Bloodchief Ascension. Ascension is a dollar more than I can spend, but whatever, its awesome. With Quandary in play, the player takes damage no matter what. Keep in mind though, this deck isn't about Sygg, its about Ninjas and Rogues.
why not have more of a discard theme?
While those suggestions are pretty great, and could lead to a pretty sick deck, it causes mine to lose focus and drift away from the inspiration, which is, again, Ninjas and Rogues. Also, I don't have fun playing control, and excessive discard tends to tick people off. Although, if you decide to run that route in your build, the Quandary/Acension duo above gets all the more nasty.
As for the rest of your suggestions, Breathstealer's Crypt seems pretty good, but I'm gonna keep it on the backburner until I playtest some more. Dunno when I'll be able to do that, though. Sanguine Bond is way out of my price range, and I'd have to build around it to make it useful.
Quote from deadpool848 »
How does Notion Thief Sound? I think stealing other peoples draw spells is pretty neat and on theme.
That's a pretty neat card that I've already thought about, but is also on the backburner for now, since I have a good amount of card draw already. But it's a Rogue, so I'll keep it in mind.
To both deadpool and DivinePanda, post your build here, or link to your own thread. I'd be very interested in seeing it. Here's a link to a thread from a couple years ago running Sygg and Ninjas, but no Rogues: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=3501245
I have a problem now, though. I've got 108 cards in my deck (111 w/ lands to compensate). What else should I take out?
Also, what's YOUR favorite combination for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches?
Edit: Also, are there lands that make creatures unblockable besides Rogue's Passage?
Stark: Generally agree on the W/, due to connections with the land and spiritual world via heart trees and dire wolfs (green), and a sense of justice (white).
Baratheon: Depends on what route you want to go here. Robert is G/, since he's the passionate, rather going hunting type, while Stannis is brutally W. Not sure how to peg Renly.
Tully:U/ because "riverlands" for blue and also they were quite loyal to the Starks, giving them white as well.
Arryn: Oh Jon, we hardly knew ye ... this house is totally R these days. Pure emotion. Also, they live in a mountain.
Lannister: Cold, callous, devious, ambitious. Definitely B/. Sure, individuals may display other colors, but as a house, this. You can make the argument for W too, though.
Targaryen: We're going with Daenerys here. Fire and passion, justice and duty. Definitely R/.
Tyrell: Not sure. Kinda fun loving, indicating green, but also political. G/, I guess.
Martell: I've read through the fourth book, so I won't spoil anything, but this house is definitely R with a dash of B/.
Other houses.
Baelish: Like the Lannisters, arguments can be made for B//.
Frey: Arguments here are for R//.
Greyjoy: Definitely blue for Iron ISLANDS and their connection to the sea, while definitely red for IRON Islands and their passion and viking-esque mindset. U/.
Ok, this EDH thing is crazy ... so many choices! Its like learning to deckbuild all over again!
So, I've been kind of avoiding building an EDH deck because there's so much about how games play that I don't know, but I was finally lured in by the possibility of running both Ninjas and Rogues in the same deck, along with discovering Sygg, River Cutthroat, who is all kinds of awesome for both creature types. Here's what I have so far; note that (*) means I already own it.
Ok, so I think it needs a tons of work, and I'd really appreciate any pointers you folks might have. Like, is the Ninja/Rogue thing not a focused enough thing to go for? Do I need more answers to threats? (I'm guessing yes) Maybe most importantly, what jank should I toss out?
One thing to note:
I'm marginally employed at the moment and thus am on an extreme budget. Nothing over dollar, really, since I'll need to buy 50% of the deck. Even if everything is a dollar, $50 is hard to justify at the moment. The money cards in the list are cards I already own, with an exception of a couple 1-2 dollar cards like Sygg and Oona.
It would be interesting to make a deck where creatures are forced to attack you via Curse of the Nightly Hunt, and then have bad things happen to your opponent for attacking using something like Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts. Although, that's a really clunky combo. Maybe there's something that works better then Teysa?
I mean, at first glance, it seems like those cards aren't useful enough or cause the deck to lose focus, but I was wondering if anyone had looked down this line of thought.
So, my ever-favorite card, Goblin Grenade, is just a wonderfully flavorful card, and I recently discovered the poor man's Grenade, Reckless Abandon. The idea of hordes of hasty little green men running for your opponents head and then blowing themselves up is hilarious to me, so I decided to throw this together.
Am I the only one psyched for (and happily enjoying the awesomeness of):
Holy schnikies! I'm with Ixrixis here ... this guy seems like he could be REALLY good. Maybe not Guide/Lacky/Piledriver good, but there's some serious shenanigans potential here. I guess time will tell, but I'm curious to see what happens with him. Anyways, Raging Goblin upgrade, I like it.
Spells:
Going with the blowing stuff up theme, Fireblast is always fun. And I recently discovered the awesomeness of a Reverberated Fireblast. Or a Reverberated Goblin Grenade, since in both cases you don't have to do any more sacrificing. Reverberate also counters counterspells, and copies things that devastate you to send them back at your opponent, like Hymn to Tourach. Man, I hate that card when I'm not playing it.
This deck is basically just attempting to get 10-12 damage in via creatures, as the burn does the rest. Pretty effectively. There's 16 cards in this deck that can do 4-5 damage. Chances are you'll draw 2 or 3. Also, the curve is super low, only 8 cards at 2cmc including the Bushwhacker, and not including the Fireblast, as you'll almost always play it for "free".
So I've always had a thing for goblins and I'd like to make a goblin deck now. Problem is I'm just coming back from a 15 year break and have nearly no card base to build from (just some innistrad and rtr stuff). Can anyone suggest a casual and fun deck (read cheap since I have to buy every card) that I can win with now and again? In the future (when I get more $) I can upgrade some cards to make it more competitive.
Dutch, if you're still looking for a fun, casual, cheap deck (5 months later), this might fit the bill, besides the pricey Goblin Guide. I've haven't gotten the chance to really playtest it though, so I'm not sure of its consistency against different decks, but its definitely fun!
Anyways, what do you guys think? Suggestions? I know I know, I should probably replace Raging Goblin with something else.
Also, if you are wondering why I named it what I did, check here.
Taunting Elf? This guy's actually won me games in both aggro decks and decks that require other creatures hitting the opponent. Even having a mininum board position in your deck seems fun; for example, one Spawnwrithe, one token, and one Signal Pest. Sure, you lose your elf, but they lose a 1 toughness guy, you get two tokens, and they take 6 damage. Add in your any of your doublestrikers or token doubling cards to get things out of hand. Or use your Lightning Mauler with him and surprise your opponent with a massive unblockable swing from your side of the field. Well, thats just the hypothesis. Dunno if it'll actually play that way.
Best play I ever made with the guy is using a giant growth to take out three untapped mana dorks accross from me. Not sure why they were untapped ...
Hahaha, yea, the Johnny in me has been pushing Endless Whispers for awhile, but I think it makes the Timmy in me just too sad to win that way with Phage ...
Edit: Actually, I've got a couple of interesting decks. One is all about mitigating drawbacks of "gating" creatures like Shivan Wurm and with guys like Elvish Visionary and Keldon Marauders. The gating creatures are all pretty old, but generally cheap. You could go the Momentary Blink route though. Lots of modern versions of that.
Another one is dropping a bunch of Psychic Venoms, Pooling Venomss and Contaminated Grounds and making them pay to play cards, and pay to do anything else, like attack, untap, etc. Then finish him off with Icy Manipulator. One thing I thought about, but had a hard time working out was doing that with Cascade cards, so that you're dropping the enchantments pretty much up the wazoo after turn 2. Kinda like the "Spread'em" deck from a couple years ago in Standard.
I think he's responding to DanteMH's question, not mine.
Ok, thanks everyone, much appreciated!
If I'm right, he loses 2 life and I win. If he's right, he is able to swing for 3 and he wins.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Thanks for the tips! Yea, I'm running Faerie Conclave since I don't have any Mutavaults at the moment. Does Familiar's Ruse have any merit, though, with the ability to to return Spellstutter and Ninjas back to my hand for reuse?
Let me know what you think, thanks!
Ok, rant over ...
First change is - Tormented Soul. He doesn't trigger Prowl or Sygg by himself, and can't chump.
Second, + Phyrexian Reclamation (*), to get my dead creatures back.
I've got that one. I updated the list to show what which cards I own. Also, as I said, I'm on an extreme budget. No more swords for me.
So, Opposition and Vela are awesome, but I don't want to invest even a couple of dollars for them. But
+ Keep Watch, + Coastal Piracy, + Guile, and + Bonesplitter for pump.
Day of the Dragons awesome, but somewhat situational. Also, I don't have a way to kill it to get my stuff back. But I guess other people would want to do that anyways ... I'll keep it in the back of my head as an option because it can potentially knock a player out.
You and TheDevinePanda have convinced me:
- Artful Dodge, - Distortion Strike, -Ghostform, -Shadow Rift
+ Dauthi Trapper
First of all, thanks for all the fantastic feedback, man, I greatly appreciate it! You're right, though, that my current wincon is a bit weak, basically swinging with evasive creatures, only 4 of which are fatties, + 2 fatty ninjas. Some help in that field is Infathom Witch, Oona's Blackguard, and Stinkdrinker Bandit pumping my weanies. Also added Bonesplitter. Quietus Spike helps make life-totals a little more manageable. I can make more pumpable weanies via Oona, Queen of the Fae and Notorious Throng.
As for alt wins, I currently only run two. Oona is one, since she can start decking one person while sending flyers at the other. Dunno that decking would really work, since there's 100 cards to get through. The other is Phage the Untouchable, who is honestly one of my "I'm running this JUST BECAUSE, OK?!" cards. I can make her unblockable by several means though, so that's cool. But really, those are my only "deal with this or else" cards.
Finally, there's a chance to steal wincons via Ink-eyes, Servant of Oni, Silent-Blade Oni, Blatant Thievery, and Knowledge Exploitation.
Good thing I'm running Visara's predecessor, Avatar of Woe, who appears better in EDH? I think. But yea, more removal and protection. That Rift card is great.
+ Cyclonic Rift, + Reckless Spite (*), + Murder, + Doom Blade (*), + Go for the Throat (*), + Undermine
Brilliant. + Painful Quandary, + Bloodchief Ascension. Ascension is a dollar more than I can spend, but whatever, its awesome. With Quandary in play, the player takes damage no matter what. Keep in mind though, this deck isn't about Sygg, its about Ninjas and Rogues.
While those suggestions are pretty great, and could lead to a pretty sick deck, it causes mine to lose focus and drift away from the inspiration, which is, again, Ninjas and Rogues. Also, I don't have fun playing control, and excessive discard tends to tick people off. Although, if you decide to run that route in your build, the Quandary/Acension duo above gets all the more nasty.
As for the rest of your suggestions, Breathstealer's Crypt seems pretty good, but I'm gonna keep it on the backburner until I playtest some more. Dunno when I'll be able to do that, though. Sanguine Bond is way out of my price range, and I'd have to build around it to make it useful.
That's a pretty neat card that I've already thought about, but is also on the backburner for now, since I have a good amount of card draw already. But it's a Rogue, so I'll keep it in mind.
To both deadpool and DivinePanda, post your build here, or link to your own thread. I'd be very interested in seeing it. Here's a link to a thread from a couple years ago running Sygg and Ninjas, but no Rogues: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=3501245
I have a problem now, though. I've got 108 cards in my deck (111 w/ lands to compensate). What else should I take out?
Also, what's YOUR favorite combination for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches?
Edit: Also, are there lands that make creatures unblockable besides Rogue's Passage?
Stark: Generally agree on the W/, due to connections with the land and spiritual world via heart trees and dire wolfs (green), and a sense of justice (white).
Baratheon: Depends on what route you want to go here. Robert is G/, since he's the passionate, rather going hunting type, while Stannis is brutally W. Not sure how to peg Renly.
Tully: U/ because "riverlands" for blue and also they were quite loyal to the Starks, giving them white as well.
Arryn: Oh Jon, we hardly knew ye ... this house is totally R these days. Pure emotion. Also, they live in a mountain.
Lannister: Cold, callous, devious, ambitious. Definitely B/. Sure, individuals may display other colors, but as a house, this. You can make the argument for W too, though.
Targaryen: We're going with Daenerys here. Fire and passion, justice and duty. Definitely R/.
Tyrell: Not sure. Kinda fun loving, indicating green, but also political. G/, I guess.
Martell: I've read through the fourth book, so I won't spoil anything, but this house is definitely R with a dash of B/.
Other houses.
Baelish: Like the Lannisters, arguments can be made for B//.
Frey: Arguments here are for R//.
Greyjoy: Definitely blue for Iron ISLANDS and their connection to the sea, while definitely red for IRON Islands and their passion and viking-esque mindset. U/.
So, I've been kind of avoiding building an EDH deck because there's so much about how games play that I don't know, but I was finally lured in by the possibility of running both Ninjas and Rogues in the same deck, along with discovering Sygg, River Cutthroat, who is all kinds of awesome for both creature types. Here's what I have so far; note that (*) means I already own it.
1 Sygg, River Cutthroat
Ninjas
2 Higure, the Still Wind (*)
3 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni (*)
4 Mistblade Shinobi (*)
5 Ninja of the Deep Hours (*)
6 Okiba-Gang Shinobi (*)
7 Silent-Blade Oni (*)
8 Throat Slitter (*)
Ninjutsu/Prowl Enablers
9 Crafty Pathmage (*)
10 Faerie Impostor
11 Infiltrator il-Kor
12 Inkfathom Infiltrator
13 Invisible Stalker (*)
14 Keymaster Rogue
15 Latchkey Faerie
16 Dimir Infiltrator
17 Minamo Sightbender
18 Nightshade Stinger
19 Ornithopter (*)
20 Surveilling Sprite
21 Thalakos Seer
22 Tormented Soul (*)
23 Prickly Boggart
24 Shadow Alley Denizen
General Utility Creatures
25 Dimir House Guard
26 Earwig Squad
27 Faerie Harbinger
28 Frogtosser Banneret
29 Oona's Blackguard
30 Stinkdrinker Bandit
31 Avatar of Woe (*)
32 Darksteel Colossus (*)
33 Deep-Sea Kraken
34 Inkfathom Witch (*)
35 Oona, Queen of the Fae
36 Phage the Untouchable (*)
Counterspells
37 Cancel
38 Counterspell (*)
39 Hinder
Making Stuff Unblockable
40 Shadow Rift
41 Whispersilk Cloak (*)
42 Artful Dodge (*)
43 Distortion Strike (*)
44 Ghostform
45 Dauthi Embrace
Mana Fixing
46 Dimir Signet
47 Expedition Map (*)
48 Pentad Prism (*)
49 Talisman of Dominance (*)
50 Wayfarer's Bauble (*)
Utility Stuff
51 Mind's Eye (*)
52 Sensei's Divining Top (*)
53 Tormod's Crypt
54 Noggin Whack
55 Knowledge Exploitation
56 Syphon Mind (*)
57 Syphon Soul (*)
58 Oversold Cemetery (*)
59 Rhystic Study (*)
60 Sword of Fire and Ice (*)
61 Quietus Spike
62 Blatant Thievery (*)
63 Notorious Throng
Land (37)
64 Bojuka Bog
65 Creeping Tar Pit
66 Darkslick Shores
67 Darkwater Catacombs
68 Dimir Guildgate
69 Drowned Catacomb
70 Jwar Isle Refuge
71 Rogue's Passage (*)
72 Rootwater Depths
73 Salt Marsh
74 Secluded Glen
75 Underground River
76 Waterveil Cavern
88 Island (*)
100 Swamp (*)
Ok, so I think it needs a tons of work, and I'd really appreciate any pointers you folks might have. Like, is the Ninja/Rogue thing not a focused enough thing to go for? Do I need more answers to threats? (I'm guessing yes) Maybe most importantly, what jank should I toss out?
One thing to note:
I'm marginally employed at the moment and thus am on an extreme budget. Nothing over dollar, really, since I'll need to buy 50% of the deck. Even if everything is a dollar, $50 is hard to justify at the moment. The money cards in the list are cards I already own, with an exception of a couple 1-2 dollar cards like Sygg and Oona.
So what do you all think?
Then for good measure, you can use Kamahl, Fist of Krosa or Jolrael, Empress of Beasts to turn their lands into creatures too, which all get blown up by Teysa.
Hmm, a 4 card combo in 4 different colors that needs 7 mana minimum to operate? Yea, I don't see a problem with that!:nod:
I mean, at first glance, it seems like those cards aren't useful enough or cause the deck to lose focus, but I was wondering if anyone had looked down this line of thought.
Going to the previous card of the day though, your suggestions for Dead Wight remind me of my Poisoned Lands deck.
4 Psychic Venom
4 Contaminated Ground
4 Pooling Venom
The Lock
4 Paralyze
4 Propaganda
2 Rhystic Study
4 Mana Leak
4 Power Sink
The Finish
4 Mana Short
1 Icy Manipulator
2 Mana Web
11 Island
12 Swamp
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Raging Goblin
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Reckless Abandon
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Reverberate
3 Teeter Peaks
17 Mountain
Creatures:
The Guide and Bushwhacker I think are pretty self explanatory. Quick early damage via haste and pump.
The Arsonist is fodder for sacrifice.
Raging Goblin: Yea, I know he's not the best, but he's funny.
Legion Loyalist:
Holy schnikies! I'm with Ixrixis here ... this guy seems like he could be REALLY good. Maybe not Guide/Lacky/Piledriver good, but there's some serious shenanigans potential here. I guess time will tell, but I'm curious to see what happens with him. Anyways, Raging Goblin upgrade, I like it.
Spells:
Going with the blowing stuff up theme, Fireblast is always fun. And I recently discovered the awesomeness of a Reverberated Fireblast. Or a Reverberated Goblin Grenade, since in both cases you don't have to do any more sacrificing. Reverberate also counters counterspells, and copies things that devastate you to send them back at your opponent, like Hymn to Tourach. Man, I hate that card when I'm not playing it.
Lastly, Lightning Bolt. Yea ...
This deck is basically just attempting to get 10-12 damage in via creatures, as the burn does the rest. Pretty effectively. There's 16 cards in this deck that can do 4-5 damage. Chances are you'll draw 2 or 3. Also, the curve is super low, only 8 cards at 2cmc including the Bushwhacker, and not including the Fireblast, as you'll almost always play it for "free".
Dutch, if you're still looking for a fun, casual, cheap deck (5 months later), this might fit the bill, besides the pricey Goblin Guide. I've haven't gotten the chance to really playtest it though, so I'm not sure of its consistency against different decks, but its definitely fun!
Anyways, what do you guys think? Suggestions? I know I know, I should probably replace Raging Goblin with something else.
Also, if you are wondering why I named it what I did, check here.
Best play I ever made with the guy is using a giant growth to take out three untapped mana dorks accross from me. Not sure why they were untapped ...
Edit: Actually, I've got a couple of interesting decks. One is all about mitigating drawbacks of "gating" creatures like Shivan Wurm and with guys like Elvish Visionary and Keldon Marauders. The gating creatures are all pretty old, but generally cheap. You could go the Momentary Blink route though. Lots of modern versions of that.
Another one is dropping a bunch of Psychic Venoms, Pooling Venomss and Contaminated Grounds and making them pay to play cards, and pay to do anything else, like attack, untap, etc. Then finish him off with Icy Manipulator. One thing I thought about, but had a hard time working out was doing that with Cascade cards, so that you're dropping the enchantments pretty much up the wazoo after turn 2. Kinda like the "Spread'em" deck from a couple years ago in Standard.