I think the art is great. The card design is a mixed bag.
I wish Emrakul still costed 15 (but with the potential cost reduction) AND kept the original P/T.
Emrakul is supposed to be the biggest bad ass of them all, now it's on par with a flipped Elbrus, the binding blade - That just feels wrong to me.
It's pretty much an auto include for our MP cube. Half our players will love having all three Eldrazi 2.0, the other half will hate losing Annihilator Eldrazi. Can't make everyone happy.
I think I will propose a time share for the eldrazi as a package and rotate them as a group of three when we want to add a different dynamic to the cube.
$$$ is also an important factor; including myself, there are some in my meta that don't mind dropping 50$ per card for a playset of something
Hell, I've been considering making an investment in Damnation in order to make my Black deck even more effective, though I think I'll stick with Toxic Deluge since it gets around things like Indestructible and Regenerate. Still, even as a consideration Damnation is close to 90$ per card. This is the kind of monetary nonsense I deal with at my meta sometimes.
It's an arms race in our meta as well. Staring down $1600 mana bases when you are bringing 24 basics to the party is rough. For the most part, everyone has some sort of dual lands, the rich play with revised duals/shocks/fetches the rest play with shocks/fetches/checklands, just not always full playsets.
This is why we built a multiplayer cube. It gives everyone an equal chance to play broken magic with the best possible mana bases.
It's not to say we don't still play FFA because we do, but we tend to play "themes". For example, someone will say, play your favorite Timmy deck. Out comes G/B Hydras, Mono U Quest for Ula's Temple, a nasty colorless Eldrazi deck, and G/r 12 Post. Or, let's go tribal. It becomes zombies/vampires/knights/goblins/elves/humans/angels/myr/tokens
The number one thing I agree with is the total amount of turns required per victory. Statistically this is a simple matter of noting turns and total mana produced and dividing by total players. From here, depending on how analytical you are, you can deviate into many other statistics. This is even easier to do if your playgroup is always the same amount of people. By taking this approach to deckbuilding, I can see the potential fot a more efficient use of mana.
The part I completely disagree with is the "One size fits all approach" to player metas. Judging by the responses here and in other threads about different metas, the consensus is you build your Magic decks to perform in the metas that you play in. Banlists, house rules, infinite or not, removal heavy, removal light, combo, group size, $$$, etc all play huge roles in determining how I build and play my decks.
You can use the most efficient cards in the game, build a deck with crazy synergy and still easily lose. Flooding or screw at the wrong time can crush even the best decks. You can also become public enemy #1 for simply winning the game before, or for winning too many games.
I would say that the cube is attempting to be optimal to a certain price point. We all get that P9 and many other expensive cards are only in peoples cubes if a) they played way back in the day, b) are lucky to own one or two of these cards or c) if they proxy them. If not, its always been tough on the voting system
One could argue that power in MP cubes is pointless unless the cube supports broken infinite combos which have traditionally be frowned upon in an MP setting.
No one is saying that an MP cube can't have $50 cards in it, ours certainly does, but perhaps designing a cube with a "X" dollar limit is the way to go about these things in the future.
This might make voting a little bit more realistic and take us away from P9, dual lands, and other expensive cards which for obvious reasons dominate lists but are unattainable for the vast majority of players.
You might call it the "realistic cube" instead of the optimal one
Either that, or you are going to have to have like three different cubes. Budget cube, Non Power Cube, Anything goes powered cube and it all becomes a bit much.
No love for the old stand by of Nantuko Shade? It's not really a two drop to me and it scares people as a card that is a must block for fear of the obvious pumping ability.
Alright, somehow I separated the artifacts from the guild section, now I just need to find a way to better categorize them. The non creature artifacts section is too large.
A lot of banter about Burgeoning. No real love for Debtors' Knell
Thanks all. After reading the discussion we have decided NOT to add either to our cube
Trying to decide if they are worth it or not. My head says no
I wish Emrakul still costed 15 (but with the potential cost reduction) AND kept the original P/T.
Emrakul is supposed to be the biggest bad ass of them all, now it's on par with a flipped Elbrus, the binding blade - That just feels wrong to me.
It's pretty much an auto include for our MP cube. Half our players will love having all three Eldrazi 2.0, the other half will hate losing Annihilator Eldrazi. Can't make everyone happy.
I think I will propose a time share for the eldrazi as a package and rotate them as a group of three when we want to add a different dynamic to the cube.
It's an arms race in our meta as well. Staring down $1600 mana bases when you are bringing 24 basics to the party is rough. For the most part, everyone has some sort of dual lands, the rich play with revised duals/shocks/fetches the rest play with shocks/fetches/checklands, just not always full playsets.
This is why we built a multiplayer cube. It gives everyone an equal chance to play broken magic with the best possible mana bases.
It's not to say we don't still play FFA because we do, but we tend to play "themes". For example, someone will say, play your favorite Timmy deck. Out comes G/B Hydras, Mono U Quest for Ula's Temple, a nasty colorless Eldrazi deck, and G/r 12 Post. Or, let's go tribal. It becomes zombies/vampires/knights/goblins/elves/humans/angels/myr/tokens
The part I completely disagree with is the "One size fits all approach" to player metas. Judging by the responses here and in other threads about different metas, the consensus is you build your Magic decks to perform in the metas that you play in. Banlists, house rules, infinite or not, removal heavy, removal light, combo, group size, $$$, etc all play huge roles in determining how I build and play my decks.
You can use the most efficient cards in the game, build a deck with crazy synergy and still easily lose. Flooding or screw at the wrong time can crush even the best decks. You can also become public enemy #1 for simply winning the game before, or for winning too many games.
I did personally enjoy your thoughts
One could argue that power in MP cubes is pointless unless the cube supports broken infinite combos which have traditionally be frowned upon in an MP setting.
No one is saying that an MP cube can't have $50 cards in it, ours certainly does, but perhaps designing a cube with a "X" dollar limit is the way to go about these things in the future.
This might make voting a little bit more realistic and take us away from P9, dual lands, and other expensive cards which for obvious reasons dominate lists but are unattainable for the vast majority of players.
You might call it the "realistic cube" instead of the optimal one
Either that, or you are going to have to have like three different cubes. Budget cube, Non Power Cube, Anything goes powered cube and it all becomes a bit much.
We have one change for sure, but possibly more coming.
Out ----------> In
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - Kozilek, the Great Distortion
In a nutshell, being able to reanimate Kozilek, the Great Distortion won out. Check us out on Cubetutor if you want to read Snobby's version!
A single oversold Cemetery and/or Dark Prophecy
Out -----------> In
Falkenrath Aristocrat - Terminate
Huntmaster of the fells - Hull Breach (may end up as Decimate)
Legion's Initiative - Boros Reckoner
Alright, somehow I separated the artifacts from the guild section, now I just need to find a way to better categorize them. The non creature artifacts section is too large.
Out ------------> In
Dragon Throne of Tarkir - Null Rod
Curses, the artifacts are still under multicolor, but the artifact creatures are under their own section.....